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On December 08 2010 12:09 dtz wrote:
hehe considering how gamebreaking this is , the Ps are staying relatively classy.
It's because Toss is the nerdy little weakling of SC2, who gets picked on by his abusive older brothers Zerg and Terran. No matter how much he cries Zerg and Terran can always whine louder so that Momma Blizzard can't even hear lil' baby Toss crying in the fetal position in the corner as the wreck that he is. The only way lil' Toss can get Momma's attention is by way of cheesey void ray, DT, Zealot or cannon rushes, and that makes Momma get mad at Toss and just take them away, leaving him completely helpless.
This ridiculous exploit is just another kick in the groin to Toss by older brother Zerg. I'd rage but if I did that then Momma Blizzard would nerf Toss and buff Terran again.
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On December 08 2010 12:21 Geovu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:09 dtz wrote:
hehe considering how gamebreaking this is , the Ps are staying relatively classy. It's because Toss is the nerdy little weakling of SC2, who gets picked on by his abusive older brothers Zerg and Terran. No matter how much he cries Zerg and Terran can always whine louder so that Momma Blizzard can't even hear lil' baby Toss crying in the fetal position in the corner as the wreck that he is. The only way lil' Toss can get Momma's attention is by way of cheesey void ray, DT, Zealot or cannon rushes, and that makes Momma get mad at Toss and just take them away, leaving him completely helpless. This ridiculous exploit is just another kick in the groin to Toss by older brother Zerg. I'd rage but if I did that then Momma Blizzard would nerf Toss and buff Terran again.
What the hell, LOL.
I do know whiney tosses though (I'm P also).
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I knew something was really really fishy about speedlings, turns out it isn't speed so much as major bug.
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Would simply putting two zealots in the opening, right next to each other, work? Since that would be a relatively simple fix.
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Oh snap, played around with this for a few mins and didn't come up with any easy ways to prevent it. Putting units behind the blocker didn't seem to stop the moving, the same thing happened to a stalker and slight adjustments to the zealot position didn't seem to matter.
Still, you could just send lings to kill the zealot before. You'd loose 4 lings and one would be at half health when the zealot dies. So this could save you a couple lings when trying to get through such a wall. I'm not sure if it's a huge thing or not, I guess we'll just have to see.
Well, look on the bright side, at least it's not sc1 lings. 
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QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it.
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On December 08 2010 12:21 Geovu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:09 dtz wrote:
hehe considering how gamebreaking this is , the Ps are staying relatively classy. It's because Toss is the nerdy little weakling of SC2, who gets picked on by his abusive older brothers Zerg and Terran. No matter how much he cries Zerg and Terran can always whine louder so that Momma Blizzard can't even hear lil' baby Toss crying in the fetal position in the corner as the wreck that he is. The only way lil' Toss can get Momma's attention is by way of cheesey void ray, DT, Zealot or cannon rushes, and that makes Momma get mad at Toss and just take them away, leaving him completely helpless. This ridiculous exploit is just another kick in the groin to Toss by older brother Zerg. I'd rage but if I did that then Momma Blizzard would nerf Toss and buff Terran again.
LOL awesome truly. But seriously of course this is huge, explains so much...hopefully it will get patched asap
maybe we should start crying more like zerg! step it up Protoss players!
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On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it.
You're making zerg players look bad.
Clearly a hold position zealot should hold position. Clearly a race that relies on wall-ins as a defense should be able to wall in.
This needs to be fixed.
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On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it.
if i could warn you i would... we all know that Sherlock, but it's besides the point of this whole thing.
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On December 08 2010 12:48 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it. You're making zerg players look bad. Clearly a hold position zealot should hold position. Clearly a race that relies on wall-ins as a defense should be able to wall in. This needs to be fixed.
i dont want to let anyone look bad, the zealots quote that they cant hold, so its their fault anyways ;o
Hold position zealots wouldnt attack, since to attack they switch into the attack "stance" without moving, and when you retreat, they get back to the hold position stance. so you can attack the zealot, if he attacks back you can still runby.
The problem would require a rewritten AI, which Blizzard announces "soon". I don't see a fix anytime soon, and i have yet to see a Protoss, how knows what he's doing loose against such things.
edit to the person above me:
If you cant read between my lines just dont write anything.
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On December 08 2010 12:52 TekKpriest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:48 fdsdfg wrote:On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it. You're making zerg players look bad. Clearly a hold position zealot should hold position. Clearly a race that relies on wall-ins as a defense should be able to wall in. This needs to be fixed. i dont want to let anyone look bad, the zealots quote that they cant hold, so its their fault anyways ;o Hold position zealots wouldnt attack, since to attack they switch into the attack "stance" without moving, and when you retreat, they get back to the hold position stance. so you can attack the zealot, if he attacks back you can still runby. The problem would require a rewritten AI, which Blizzard announces "soon". I don't see a fix anytime soon, and i have yet to see a Protoss, how knows what he's doing loose against such things.
LOL please just stop posting already...
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Yeah, I really hate to say this but in the current environment, balance almost completely to the wayside, if you want a change, the amount of time it takes for it to be included in a patch is directly proportional to the number of players QQ, and the and dramatic effect of the QQ, saying Sc2 will be dead if this change goes through is more effective than now Zerg will lose the game etc.
Edit: on a side note, really the truth comes out that behind the psionic link between the Khala, and their strict warrior code. The Zealot is really a scared little girl inside that slowly inches back when faced against dogs slow enough so that you hopefully don't notice and see how scared he really is.
and Stalkers as we already know are like Zealots, scared (hence blink) but at least for good reason, they are disabled veterans that didnt get no benefits T T.
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On December 08 2010 12:52 TekKpriest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:48 fdsdfg wrote:On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it. You're making zerg players look bad. Clearly a hold position zealot should hold position. Clearly a race that relies on wall-ins as a defense should be able to wall in. This needs to be fixed. i dont want to let anyone look bad, the zealots quote that they cant hold, so its their fault anyways ;o Hold position zealots wouldnt attack, since to attack they switch into the attack "stance" without moving, and when you retreat, they get back to the hold position stance. so you can attack the zealot, if he attacks back you can still runby. The problem would require a rewritten AI, which Blizzard announces "soon". I don't see a fix anytime soon, and i have yet to see a Protoss, how knows what he's doing loose against such things.
Er I hope you mean hold position zealots won't come out to attack. I assure you, if you run your zergling up to my hold position zealot, he'll attack you when you are in range.
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On December 08 2010 12:55 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:52 TekKpriest wrote:On December 08 2010 12:48 fdsdfg wrote:On December 08 2010 12:45 TekKpriest wrote:
QQ,
be happy that you can actually wallin.
There are ways around that and no wall should be foolproof anyways, and vs a normal 14 gas/14 pool build you have at least 1 sentry out anyway, so unless you get early pooled it doesnt matter at all. and if he sacs econ in favour of trying to get through, you can always place an additional pylon at your ramp.
edit:
and i have yet to see any good player using this. Its known for a while, but most of the time not worth it. You're making zerg players look bad. Clearly a hold position zealot should hold position. Clearly a race that relies on wall-ins as a defense should be able to wall in. This needs to be fixed. i dont want to let anyone look bad, the zealots quote that they cant hold, so its their fault anyways ;o Hold position zealots wouldnt attack, since to attack they switch into the attack "stance" without moving, and when you retreat, they get back to the hold position stance. so you can attack the zealot, if he attacks back you can still runby. The problem would require a rewritten AI, which Blizzard announces "soon". I don't see a fix anytime soon, and i have yet to see a Protoss, how knows what he's doing loose against such things. Er I hope you mean hold position zealots won't come out to attack. I assure you, if you run your zergling up to my hold position zealot, he'll attack you when you are in range.
yes thats what i meant, but if you look closely they will switch between "attack hold" and hold position.
and @Hysteria just stfu thank you.
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Um.. what are you guys talking about?
This is exactly how unit movement works. It's the same reason Terrans can move Tanks at Marine stim speed by surrounding the tank with marines, then stim moving the marines.
The radius of a Zergling is very small, therefore they can get through small gaps quite easily. This is what they're meant to do - be small, quick and dart through small holes you leave in your defense.
The complaint here is simply, I want to leave a Zealot there and forget about it, and someone figured out how to push my Zealot out of the way.
The reason the Zealot can be pushed is because the attacking player is actively ordering his units to PUSH your unit out of the way; and you are just attacking. Attacks do not push, so the force is not countered, and your zealot is moved.
The Zealot doesn't get instantly pushed, you just have to push back. Of course, you can't attack when you are pushing (and neither can the Zerglings).
At the end of the day, you are walling in with a movable ground unit. It's not a building. It's a movable unit. You should not expect a movable unit to act as a 1 square wall.
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On December 08 2010 13:11 thenk wrote:
At the end of the day, you are walling in with a movable ground unit. It's not a building. It's a movable unit. You should not expect a movable unit to act as a 1 square wall.
When it's your only form of defense early on, without completely walling in and having to later destroy your own buildings? Yes. Protoss isn't terran, they can't lower their depots or lift buildings.
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Definitely a bug, will probably get fixed.
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On December 08 2010 12:32 Clcsed wrote:I must be doing it wrong because zerglings can't get through any of these openings...: http://imgur.com/kNrsa.jpg
Whenever i play PvZ I do the same type of wall in :D
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On December 08 2010 13:11 thenk wrote:
Um.. what are you guys talking about?
This is exactly how unit movement works. It's the same reason Terrans can move Tanks at Marine stim speed by surrounding the tank with marines, then stim moving the marines.
The radius of a Zergling is very small, therefore they can get through small gaps quite easily. This is what they're meant to do - be small, quick and dart through small holes you leave in your defense.
The complaint here is simply, I want to leave a Zealot there and forget about it, and someone figured out how to push my Zealot out of the way.
The reason the Zealot can be pushed is because the attacking player is actively ordering his units to PUSH your unit out of the way; and you are just attacking. Attacks do not push, so the force is not countered, and your zealot is moved.
The Zealot doesn't get instantly pushed, you just have to push back. Of course, you can't attack when you are pushing (and neither can the Zerglings).
At the end of the day, you are walling in with a movable ground unit. It's not a building. It's a movable unit. You should not expect a movable unit to act as a 1 square wall.
There are some very fundamental problems with being able to push things out of the way.
For example, why can this zealot be pushed, but my command center can't crush a zergling by landing on it? It's a movable unit, and my command center is MASSIVE compared to that stupid zergling.
The answer to this and a whole lot of other scenarios is: Balance.
The zealot should not be able to be moved.
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EPT
