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On December 08 2010 02:59 Neo.NEt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 00:35 mprs wrote:On December 08 2010 00:14 Badboyrune wrote:
I feel like this is almost unheard of. After having played WoW for far too many years I've become so used to that changes that make it onto PTR always go live, no matter how much whine or how bad the change was. Seeing Blizzard actually listen and take action before things go live makes me think that SC2 devs are quite different from WoW devs, in a good way. There is a big difference between WoW and SC2. WoW has 11 million players. Assuming 90% retarded (since it is the internet), thats a lot of voice that needs to be skipped, its hard to find the 100-200 that actually know what they are doing. I have a feeling that its pretty easy to get feedback from the pros in this game... and thats what they did. Let's keep in mind that the pros are the most biased people on the planet. Also, they play the game a lot differently than the rest of us (a million+). Not that their opinions don't matter, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. There's really no way to perfectly balance the game since Blizz has to make the game the same for bronze players, team games, and pros. For example, a lot of pros probably think marines are way too good (and if you watch Foxer you probably agree). The thing is, while Foxer's marines might be OP, that doesn't mean that the kids in bronze league or even diamond need to have their marines nerfed. Last time I checked you can't nerf marines for one player...
This. While Foxer's marines are op, when the horrible people in silver don't know how to back marines up and 75 marines get evaporated in seconds to 2 colossus, it makes you wonder how to really balance things out for everyone. Played a guy yesterday who stimmed down a ramp with mass marines/Medivacs into +2 armor chargelots and 4 colossus + guardian shield. Battle lasted about 3 seconds and he cried about marines sucking.
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oh god.. they considered our ideas about fg air hit,,,
im just.. so happy they did not made this change to live...
gg gl hf blizzard.
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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/d6lPF.jpg)
"The Last Patch"
From the left, Yellow (SC1 Zerg Pro), Jungwon (Gom TV Caster), Terran Operator (Notice the kneeling position), Fruit Dealer (TSL), Choya (FOU), Hongun (Prime-WE), David Kim with his 1.2 Patch, MC (OGS-Liquid), Rain (TSL), Jinro (OGS-Liquid), Killer (TSL), Daeman (Gom TV Caster), anonymous Protoss Zealot?
On the table, there are an apple (for Fruit Dealer), a sting ray (called Hong-uh in Korea, Hongun's nickname), Cheese (for Rain), So-ju the Korean traditional alcoholic beverage (for Jinro)
Nice Work.
from PlayXP (made by Totoshu)
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On December 08 2010 03:04 Lil.Sassy wrote:
I really hope this is based more on actual testing instead of just a ton of Zergs whining.
Yeah they gave it a week and figured that Zerg players suck ass without fungal on air. Seriously.
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On December 08 2010 03:54 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 02:59 Neo.NEt wrote:On December 08 2010 00:35 mprs wrote:On December 08 2010 00:14 Badboyrune wrote:
I feel like this is almost unheard of. After having played WoW for far too many years I've become so used to that changes that make it onto PTR always go live, no matter how much whine or how bad the change was. Seeing Blizzard actually listen and take action before things go live makes me think that SC2 devs are quite different from WoW devs, in a good way. There is a big difference between WoW and SC2. WoW has 11 million players. Assuming 90% retarded (since it is the internet), thats a lot of voice that needs to be skipped, its hard to find the 100-200 that actually know what they are doing. I have a feeling that its pretty easy to get feedback from the pros in this game... and thats what they did. Let's keep in mind that the pros are the most biased people on the planet. Also, they play the game a lot differently than the rest of us (a million+). Not that their opinions don't matter, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. There's really no way to perfectly balance the game since Blizz has to make the game the same for bronze players, team games, and pros. For example, a lot of pros probably think marines are way too good (and if you watch Foxer you probably agree). The thing is, while Foxer's marines might be OP, that doesn't mean that the kids in bronze league or even diamond need to have their marines nerfed. Last time I checked you can't nerf marines for one player... This. While Foxer's marines are op, when the horrible people in silver don't know how to back marines up and 75 marines get evaporated in seconds to 2 colossus, it makes you wonder how to really balance things out for everyone. Played a guy yesterday who stimmed down a ramp with mass marines/Medivacs into +2 armor chargelots and 4 colossus + guardian shield. Battle lasted about 3 seconds and he cried about marines sucking.
if you've been around for BW, then you should have seen the idiotic shit they were saying about imbalance then.
EDIT : weeeeeeeeeeeeeee I've just been promoted to firebat !!!!
thanks TL.net, but could you get some SC2 icons? I want to be a Marauder, please!
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when zerg qqs they get what they want
when any other races qqs, they get nothing
thx blizzard for balancing that game
Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something)
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On December 08 2010 03:14 1Eris1 wrote:
I like how no one ever called FG OP, until blizz thought it needed a nerf. and now that it's not being nerfed it's suddenly OP.
give me a break people.
these changes are going to really help protoss. hallucination can be a great addition early and thats what protoss needs.
Research hallucinate, that you'll use for one phoenix during the whole game, or make a stargate/robo/more units. Wow, I think I know what I'll do.
I don't even know what hallucination costs but I'm quite sure it costs gas.
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Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something)
That's not true at all. Econ-heavy stargate openings are terrific in PvZ, and once a Toss gets to 3 base 200/200, they are nearly unstoppable. The idea that Toss can't beat Zerg in a long game is pure myth.
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What happened was they were going to release it then NesTea and FruitDealer got knocked out the GSL and they changed their mind.
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On December 08 2010 04:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something) That's not true at all. Econ-heavy stargate openings are terrific in PvZ, and once a Toss gets to 3 base 200/200, they are nearly unstoppable. The idea that Toss can't beat Zerg in a long game is pure myth.
Still pylon block-fe-stargate-tons of warpgate stuff is better than anything imo
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On December 08 2010 04:09 Hyperionnn wrote:
when zerg qqs they get what they want
when any other races qqs, they get nothing
thx blizzard for balancing that game
Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something)
man, it's kinda broken
at least protoss have some viable moving AOE, but terran only has tanks that don't move, nukes that are slow and huge cast time or HSM that is expensive and easily dodged.
how can you keep up to a macroing zerg as terran ?
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Still pylon block-fe-stargate-tons of warpgate stuff is better than anything imo
I dunno. On big maps where its tough to send a big ground force early on (like Scrap Station), or maps where you can easily defend multiple bases through one ramp/chokepoint (like Jungle Basin), walling in with Cannons and Pylons, pumping probes like crazy, then going for a double Stargate can be really, really nasty. Guinea Pig did this build (18 Nexus 37 stargate I believe...his economy was ridiculous) and won, and Fruit was so terrified of this opening vs. HongUn on scrap station that he basically did a blind all-in.
It's not widely known, but when used purely for econ, chronoboost is actually the strongest macro mechanic. Look on any build order calculator and ask how long it will take Zerg, protoss and Terran to get to a given worker count, and Toss will win. The issue is, if you do that you build an army so slow you're insanely vulnerable. But if you can easily defend multiple bases vs. ground in the early game, Protoss econ is scary.
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On December 08 2010 04:15 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 04:09 Hyperionnn wrote:
when zerg qqs they get what they want
when any other races qqs, they get nothing
thx blizzard for balancing that game
Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something) man, it's kinda broken at least protoss have some viable moving AOE, but terran only has tanks that don't move, nukes that are slow and huge cast time or HSM that is expensive and easily dodged. how can you keep up to a macroing zerg as terran ?
newsflash, tanks actually do move..........
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On December 08 2010 04:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something) That's not true at all. Econ-heavy stargate openings are terrific in PvZ, and once a Toss gets to 3 base 200/200, they are nearly unstoppable. The idea that Toss can't beat Zerg in a long game is pure myth.
Econ heavy stargate openings are a myth.
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Research hallucinate, that you'll use for one phoenix during the whole game, or make a stargate/robo/more units. Wow, I think I know what I'll do.
I don't even know what hallucination costs but I'm quite sure it costs gas.
Hallucinate is actually pretty nasty if it comes out early enough. Even if most players have the capacity to get detection either by scanning or morphing in overseers, they so ararely expect hallucination that most won't use it. If you make an early PvT push using hallucinated Zealots to tank, 9 times out of the 10 the Terran will just assume they're real and waste a ton of his attacks on them.
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i told u its only TEST SERVER!
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On December 08 2010 04:22 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 04:15 MindRush wrote:On December 08 2010 04:09 Hyperionnn wrote:
when zerg qqs they get what they want
when any other races qqs, they get nothing
thx blizzard for balancing that game
Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something) man, it's kinda broken at least protoss have some viable moving AOE, but terran only has tanks that don't move, nukes that are slow and huge cast time or HSM that is expensive and easily dodged. how can you keep up to a macroing zerg as terran ? newsflash, tanks actually do move..........
hes talking about when it is fungaled.
colossi still move if fungaled since they are massive type
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the voidray change will have the biggest impact on pvz and not anything else. voidrays are almost the only unit who can handle a zerg t3 army. it wont change anything in pvp and pvt
I think that it may have the biggest impact on PVP since you could go chargelot voidray vs the typical colo stalker composition and possibly mop up although I could be wrong. And I think protoss have a lot of options against tier 3 zerg cause once collosi get to a critical mass of like 6 or 8 they will eat up even ultralisks with little support and broodlords can really only be used if zerg has maintained air superiority.
And ultralisks just seem to act retarded when they aren't being babysat even their ability to break forcefields is useless when zerglings get stuck in between them and the forcefield
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Nice catch man thank you for the update
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On December 08 2010 04:09 Hyperionnn wrote:
when zerg qqs they get what they want
when any other races qqs, they get nothing
thx blizzard for balancing that game
Edit: I'm not saying that the game is broken but t and p has so few choices against a zerg (pylon block- 2 rax pressure into something) SO SO wrong.
Terran and protoss had some beneficial changes, and zerg are certainly missing many desired ones). Need to look at things objectively in the big picture.
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EPT
