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On December 07 2010 14:25 Azn_Christian wrote:since when were Ultras good in starcraft 2???? Late game zerg is about constant pressure so that they don't get critical mass and macro and map control.
Just about every good zerg player gets them.
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On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them.
Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2..
Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it..
You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it..
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I guess the nerf ideas are coming from blizz ppl that watched gsl that day where nestea vs maka and leenock vs guineapig
shitton of nestea's ultras are stomping maka
blizzard's response: nerf ultras
fungal growth on phoenixes -> all died to mutas
blizzard's response: nerf FG+buff phoenix
bbbprime marines+scv allins got stomped by fruitdealer
result: nothing happened
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If the ultra collision size was really reduced, I welcome this change as it will I hope stop the ultras using stupid pathing. I think it could far more than compensate a very little (if I read the pics correctly) splash size nerf. Because smaller sized ultra will be able to attack a lot more often, no ?
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On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it..
Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building.
I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras.
Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings.
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On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings.
You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army.
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On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it..
You keep on saying things about 10-12 minutes into the game but that's not what I am talking about. I am also not talking about rushing to ultras, I think I explained it quite good. I said MIXING in ultras can mean you lose the game.
Yes we get it, If I have him contained to 2/3 bases and I have 5/6/7 bases, then it's a good idea to start the cycle. Blords into ultra, ultra to blords. But in a game where it is kinda even, you can't pull that off. It costs a shit ton of resources, and leaves him with a very big window to attack you. ultras take ages to get out, blords even longer. Chances are, ultras are in the queue, or you still have corruptors. You really need a ridiculous resource advantage to keep switching.
Let me make it even easier for you. 3 blords make a huge difference. They force tanks to unsiege, and forces them to make vikings. 3 ultras get shot down by marines/tanks/everything before it even comes in range. I know, maybe they are designed to take the shots, but they are too expensive to do that.
On December 07 2010 18:19 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings. You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army.
Now I don't know if you are trolling or not. Going from blords to ultra in 1 minute? Then the zerg already won the game by a huge resource difference. Also, 1 minute? I think the build time of ultras are way longer.
Vikings can't shoot ultras thats right. But they can shoot overlords, and they kill them pretty fast.
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This season there were 2 or 3 GSL games where the zerg did exactly this, go broodlord then switched to ultras because of the massed vikings. It worked each time.
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just give us the bw ultras back, please?
smaller, no burrow, move as fast as zerglings after upgrade.
Y_Y
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You keep on saying things about 10-12 minutes into the game but that's not what I am talking about. I am also not talking about rushing to ultras, I think I explained it quite good. I said MIXING in ultras can mean you lose the game.
I completly agree. There is no reason you should try to mix Ultras into your army composition like Protoss does with say Immortals.
Yes we get it, If I have him contained to 2/3 bases and I have 5/6/7 bases, then it's a good idea to start the cycle. Blords into ultra, ultra to blords. But in a game where it is kinda even, you can't pull that off. It costs a shit ton of resources, and leaves him with a very big window to attack you. ultras take ages to get out, blords even longer. Chances are, ultras are in the queue, or you still have corruptors. You really need a ridiculous resource advantage to keep switching.
Let me make it even easier for you. 3 blords make a huge difference. They force tanks to unsiege, and forces them to make vikings. 3 ultras get shot down by marines/tanks/everything before it even comes in range. I know, maybe they are designed to take the shots, but they are too expensive to do that.
Now I don't know if you are trolling or not. Going from blords to ultra in 1 minute? Then the zerg already won the game by a huge resource difference. Also, 1 minute? I think the build time of ultras are way longer.
Vikings can't shoot ultras thats right. But they can shoot overlords, and they kill them pretty fast.
I think I will find a representative replay/vod for you, because you put it like if you can start switching between Broods and Ultras, the game is already won, which I completly desagree..
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On December 07 2010 18:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:
just give us the bw ultras back, please?
smaller, no burrow, move as fast as zerglings after upgrade.
Y_Y
i agree with most of this, other than "as fast as zerglings", they are ridiciulous fast in SC2 xD that would be overkill 
unless you mean slowlings(are they even faster than that?)
edit: but a speed upgrade would be fucking epic
edit 2: but rarther have Hydra speed upgrade  damn slow slugs
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yea the BW ultralisks with speed and armor upgrade is so much btr to use n worth the time and money to spawn it.
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Do any of you morons understand what people are saying? If a zerg can go BLs to ultralisks he's already won. He could have made any unit and won. Its like saying well why don't terran go mass BCs to mass thor. If i go bc is he has to make corrupters and then those corrupters can't even attack my thors, Its an ingenious strat! If you are able to do that then you already one. The tech switch between BL and Ultra is not what wins the game.
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I think the change is fine and warranted. Besides, who runs marines into an ultra? Maybe a burrowed one but never have I seen marines surrounding an ultra and at that point there would be ravens for detection or tons of energy for scans. Maybe increase the damage just a bit?
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On December 07 2010 18:49 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 18:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:
just give us the bw ultras back, please?
smaller, no burrow, move as fast as zerglings after upgrade.
Y_Y i agree with most of this, other than "as fast as zerglings", they are ridiciulous fast in SC2 xD that would be overkill unless you mean slowlings(are they even faster than that?) edit: but a speed upgrade would be fucking epic edit 2: but rarther have Hydra speed upgrade damn slow slugs
Speed upgraded ultras are slightly slower than speedlings in BW.
Their movement speed translated to SC2 is 4.375, for comparison the hellion and phoenix have a speed of 4.25.
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On December 07 2010 18:19 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings. You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army.
There also is no way for Zerg to switch from Brood/Corruptor to Ultra-ling in 1 minute. Unless you somehow let the Zerg take around 14 gas. And playing like 3 v 7 bases, the units aren't exactly the problem. They'd win just as well with a Hydra-ling-bane switch. It makes absolutely no sense to switch to Ultra, marines destroy them and Marines are the main units you make vs Broodlords as well(no one is stupid enough to go for 5 reactor starports or something).
Also just in case you didn't figure the counter to the ultra-ling switch, try building some planetary fortresses in strategic positions. Note that you need to be about even or at least close in economy with Zerg, this won't work when they have double your bases. But if it's like 5 bases vs 6 and they make brood lords, you can make some Vikings and PFs will take care of the ultralings with some marine support. eyeroll
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On December 07 2010 19:02 diegonolan wrote:
Do any of you morons understand what people are saying? If a zerg can go BLs to ultralisks he's already won. He could have made any unit and won. Its like saying well why don't terran go mass BCs to mass thor. If i go bc is he has to make corrupters and then those corrupters can't even attack my thors, Its an ingenious strat! If you are able to do that then you already one. The tech switch between BL and Ultra is not what wins the game.
Im sorry, but you are totally wrong.. Please, dont post if you have nothing to cover your silly arguments with. Even your god (Idra?) says Ultras are good for tech switches between Broods, wake up..
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On December 07 2010 19:06 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 18:19 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings. You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army. There also is no way for Zerg to switch from Brood/Corruptor to Ultra-ling in 1 minute. Unless you somehow let the Zerg take around 14 gas. And playing like 3 v 7 bases, the units aren't exactly the problem. They'd win just as well with a Hydra-ling-bane switch. It makes absolutely no sense to switch to Ultra, marines destroy them and Marines are the main units you make vs Broodlords as well(no one is stupid enough to go for 5 reactor starports or something).
Watch some GSL games TvZ on Shakuras.. I think the ones that features NesTea, you will get it.
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On December 07 2010 19:08 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 19:06 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 18:19 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings. You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army. There also is no way for Zerg to switch from Brood/Corruptor to Ultra-ling in 1 minute. Unless you somehow let the Zerg take around 14 gas. And playing like 3 v 7 bases, the units aren't exactly the problem. They'd win just as well with a Hydra-ling-bane switch. It makes absolutely no sense to switch to Ultra, marines destroy them and Marines are the main units you make vs Broodlords as well(no one is stupid enough to go for 5 reactor starports or something). Watch some GSL games TvZ on Shakuras.. I think the one that features NesTea, you will get it.
Point me to a game where the Terran built 5 PFs into the mid corridor and also took his 6 bases, controlled the Zerg's mid expansions with Siege tanks from his, and controlled the air with Vikings. Don't care about games where T doesn't play it properly.
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On December 07 2010 19:09 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 19:08 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 19:06 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 18:19 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 18:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 07 2010 17:54 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:44 Brutus wrote:On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote:
This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue.
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. Sometimes I wonder If you guys actually watch or play Starcraft 2.. Of course if you go straight for Ultras, you might die.. Muta/ling/bling is your bread and butter. If Terran wont "cheese" you out of the game within 10-12 minutes with some crazy all-in you just get to point where you can literally throw your army away whatever it is and start switching between Ultras and Broods and there is nothing Terran can do about it.. You either have Vikings left over and Ultras will kill you right there, or the next switch will make it.. Ultras are horrendous vs Marines and the current trend is massing a lot of Marines. If they have a decent ball of marines you need like 10+ ultras to do anything, and with Siege tank support even those can be taken care of. I would never go ultras vs Terran, it's a complete waste. The only scenario would be when I'm maxed with 5000/3000 and suicide my army, and even then the buildtime takes so long that they can just take their army and kill a couple of your expansions while the Ultras are building. I don't like the nerf, Ultras were pretty much never used anyway and Broodlords were the scary unit. There was no reason to go for Ultras. Oh right, and why would anyone tech switch from Broodlord to Ultra? If anything, you should tech switch to Hydra-ling-baneling since they won't have any tanks and will have Vikings. You switch from Broodlords to Ultra when you see enough Vikings and suddenly only thing Terran can do is land those Vikings and watch them die instantly because there is no way you can have right army to counter Broodlords/Corruptors and 1 minute later to counter Ultra/Ling army. There also is no way for Zerg to switch from Brood/Corruptor to Ultra-ling in 1 minute. Unless you somehow let the Zerg take around 14 gas. And playing like 3 v 7 bases, the units aren't exactly the problem. They'd win just as well with a Hydra-ling-bane switch. It makes absolutely no sense to switch to Ultra, marines destroy them and Marines are the main units you make vs Broodlords as well(no one is stupid enough to go for 5 reactor starports or something). Watch some GSL games TvZ on Shakuras.. I think the one that features NesTea, you will get it. Point me to a game where the Terran built 5 PFs into the mid corridor and also took his 6 bases, controlled the Zerg's mid expansions with Siege tanks from his, and controlled the air with Vikings. Don't care about games where T doesn't play it properly.
You wont find any, because its as stupid as it looks.
I dont dare to try to explain to you, because we will get nowhere, sorry.. Going to watch GSL now.
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