EPTLate game zerg is about constant pressure so that they don't get critical mass and macro and map control.
Ultralisk 1.2 Test Results - Nerfed - Page 3
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Azn_Christian
United States153 Posts
Late game zerg is about constant pressure so that they don't get critical mass and macro and map control. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 07 2010 14:15 Hobokinz wrote: Yes Bling-Ling-Infestor is good but if someone adds in Ultra's that doesn't mean that Ultra's are amazing, the other unit's do the work the Ultra just sits there and looks 6 supply pretty. It's 100% relevant how the units synergize. Ultras completely destroy funagled marauders that have medivac support. Not necessarily on a cost vs cost basis, but you can't do that since the lategame Zerg economy is typically superior than the lategame Terran economy in a macro game. Zerg can just take too many bases and rebuild its army too quickly. I'm talking about a late game scenario btw, not midgame or midlate game or any sort of "ultra rush." EDIT: I should also clarify, a major point in Ultra strength relies in its ability to be mass produced. So if you throw mass ultra at the enemy, and were not even cost efficient, in the late game stages you can just rebuild all those ultra from all the larvae and stomp over the new army that will be much weaker, and just continue to stream those units in. And you absolutely have to include the fact that ultras are made from larvae as making it a much stronger asset to the Zerg arsenal. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
But this image below is what I immediately pictured in my head when I heard of the news. It is a TOP view of the ultralisks and their area of splash damage from the current state and the PTR. The blue dots are marine heads for clarification. Hope it helps somewhat.. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/gXlKl.jpg) | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On December 07 2010 15:37 MassHysteria wrote: Yes it is a nerf definitely, there was never any doubt in my mind once I read it ( I even posted it on some other thread). But this image below is what I immediately pictured in my head when I heard of the news. It is a TOP view of the ultralisks and their area of splash damage from the current state and the PTR. The blue dots are marine heads for clarification. Hope it helps somewhat.. + Show Spoiler + I personally pictured it with the splash area being the same as it used to, just the center of the splash area moved forward a space or two so that more units were hit. Seriously, why the hell would they need to nerf Ultralisks? | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On December 07 2010 13:43 Jotoco wrote: But it is very little varied as well. It's zerg's macro mechanics that are powerful, not the units. Zerg units are the most cost innefective in the game, by far. Ultras, Hydras, Corruptors and Broodlords rarely ever see light on the game. This makes ling, bling, roach muta the only viable units. And infestors as support (but they are getting nerfed again, they weren't since beta). Zerg play is too flat already, fast expand and then ling, bling muta or roach infestor, maybe hydra roach. Now builds that used infestor as anti air don't work anymore. And I ABSOLUTELY LOVED ling infestor play. it was so good, and unnexpected. So much for zerg varied play. Terrans are playing boring by choice, now zergs don't really have a choice. not only that, but ideal macro means you dont actually use the production queues and spend resources as you get them, so its not like Z magically has more resources to make any bonus production rate possible On December 07 2010 15:57 iCanada wrote: I personally pictured it with the splash area being the same as it used to, just the center of the splash area moved forward a space or two so that more units were hit. Seriously, why the hell would they need to nerf Ultralisks? agreed, this would have been the change they needed too  | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On December 07 2010 16:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote: not only that, but ideal macro means you dont actually use the production queues and spend resources as you get them, so its not like Z magically has more resources to make any bonus production rate possible Zerg Units are Cheaper in General, and the production can be stacked, thus due to earlier maxed you have more money to spend. | ||
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Euriti
Denmark72 Posts
On December 07 2010 14:04 FabledIntegral wrote: The Broodlord --> Ultra tech switch is even more ridiculous. To achieve this you need a stupidly large resource lead but I guess Zerg shouldn't be able to capitalize on having a far superior economy | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
Why more nerf? i just dont get it. | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
On December 07 2010 15:19 FabledIntegral wrote: It's 100% relevant how the units synergize. Ultras completely destroy funagled marauders that have medivac support. Not necessarily on a cost vs cost basis, but you can't do that since the lategame Zerg economy is typically superior than the lategame Terran economy in a macro game. Zerg can just take too many bases and rebuild its army too quickly. I'm talking about a late game scenario btw, not midgame or midlate game or any sort of "ultra rush." EDIT: I should also clarify, a major point in Ultra strength relies in its ability to be mass produced. So if you throw mass ultra at the enemy, and were not even cost efficient, in the late game stages you can just rebuild all those ultra from all the larvae and stomp over the new army that will be much weaker, and just continue to stream those units in. And you absolutely have to include the fact that ultras are made from larvae as making it a much stronger asset to the Zerg arsenal. Then maybe I should clarify that nobody uses them that are good, except as stated on the state of the game podcast, to finish of someone already dead. Can you tell me when you saw them in the GSL? Well when someone is dead and needs finishing, that's when. So stop beliving yourself when you are so clearly lying to him about ultras being awesome, nobody agrees with you so maybe tone it down and realize that it actually was a stupid choice to nerf the least used unit for zerg? Maybe? No? Ok then go on being an ignorant liar. | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:16 Malminos wrote: This irritates the shit out of me. Apparently whoever is in charge of balancing zerg over at blizzard hasn't a fucking clue. Why more nerf? i just dont get it. You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote: You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Because regardless if Zerg are going well, it's not the ultralisk that is attributing to that, it is banelings and mutalisks. Ultra has been nerfed almost every patch since beta. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
Whatever. | ||
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iopq
United States1183 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote: You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? how are they doing very well? there are no zergs in the GSL anymore | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:31 Fa1nT wrote: Because regardless if Zerg are going well, it's not the ultralisk that is attributing to that, it is banelings and mutalisks. Ultra has been nerfed almost every patch since beta. Ultralisks were uneffective against mech. So Blizzard buffed them to point it was ridiculous, because they wanted them to be the answer for mech. But since Mutalisk started to own Thors and mech died basicly over night, they need to nerf them, because they actually smash everything in their way. If you add to this the capability of Zerg macro and the option to switch between Ultra/Ling and BL/Corruptor, you have pretty sick end game combo, that is nearly unbeateable. I think this is what Blizzard tried to adress via Ultralisk nerf and Fungal growth nerf, which didnt even make it. Probably it affected too many situations in game. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:36 iopq wrote: how are they doing very well? there are no zergs in the GSL anymore You base your argument on fact, that basicly all Zergs were cheesed out of GSL? | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:25 Everlong wrote: You dont get it maybe because you are stupid to make such as comments. You wont get a lot of things with this approach. Zergs are doing very well lately, which is common knowledge. Only thing that Zergs are struggling is this 2rax all-in, which nearly everyone QQs about and wants to be nerfed.. So what the fuck are you to talk tresh like this? Just ban him. Late game zerg is fine, yes we know that. It's just that with this nerf, it's often times better to keep on muta/ling/baneling or roach/hydra/corruptor instead of teching. Late game you can mix in some blords to force a response. If the game is even, going ultralisk or too many blords can get you killed. Think about it, vs which unit ultras do good? Thors beat them especially when the ball gets bigger, marauders eat them alive, with the cleave nerf marines do surprisingly well and they can't shoot up. if you get a prefect fungal off and get a prefect surround, then you can kill stalkers and collossi. But if not, you actually get killed. the rest of the units are very good vs them. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
Old: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/PG9B5.jpg) New: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/GhdOt.jpg) | ||
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