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On December 06 2010 06:42 Severedevil wrote:Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop. 100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can. Show nested quote +The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.
.... Burrow. And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks.
How can you have 3000 posts on this site and not have any logic behind what you say? I would assume you have been around long enough to know that in broodwar 2 scourge would kill a dropship... thats less than 100min 150 gas. So your first point has no backing on it. Secondly, while scourge could kill dropships alone, infestors can only kill the dropship alone if it has around 125 energy... 1 fungal + 2 infested terran (still wouldn't kill the medivac in most cases because fungal doesn't last long enough).
If say, a terran is trying to drop the main base of a zerg, should you not be able to punish a risky move with fungal + anti-air? You need more than just that 100 minerals 150 gas no matter the situation, whether it be hydras, queens, or what have you. Secondly, burrow is worthless because you can't fungal out of it... and as Blade said most Terrans scan to be sure its safe. (where u can see the infestor and possibly snipe it before they see the drop, or just drop elsewhere)
Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there.
Nydus's are too expensive to be used from base to base unless to an island, and bases are close enough in starcraft 2 with creep for it to lend much of a hand.
Finally, 2 mutas CAN kill a drop if there are no marines in it because they are faster than medivacs.
The loss of fungal for infestors seems to result in the loss of good zergs who stay on top of watching their minimap from punishing terrans risky play. It would simply be too difficult for zerg otherwise because with planetaries and tanks it is too hard to counter the terran for having less units in their primary army. It is all the same as in Broodwar where if you lost your shuttle/reaver it was a huge cost, but that's the chances you take with a unit/units that can do such damage.
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On December 06 2010 07:01 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 06:57 WhoaDrugs wrote:
"Extreme" Graphics? Higher than Ultra? that must be insane. Anyone has their game on extreme. Is it really a big difference? Comparative Screenshots would be nice. 
The only difference between ultra and extreme is: ultra has Indirect Shadows turned off, extreme has it turned on. Indirect Shadows only affects "story mode sets and cut scenes" - aka there is no difference between ultra and extreme.
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I can understand all this Zerg QQing about the proposed FG nerf, it IS an insane ability - immobilize all units (ground AND air) in a radius of 2 for 8s and dish out 36 guaranteed damage for 75 energy and researched by default. God, I'd kill for Psi Storm to do that.
And @skYfiVe your statement "Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there." You know that the High Templar moves even slower ABOVE ground than the Infestor under it!
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On December 04 2010 10:57 ZekZ wrote:
holy fuck i just relized cant fungal medivacs anymore!!!
Yeah, they just made infestors pretty much useless.
infested terrans too slow to be useful, and neural stuff is so easy to counter (plus short duration)...
Air vs Z is going to be insanely OP now (as if it wasn't already) since they only have mutas and corrupters. WTB scourge back plz blizz!
EDIT: Also, protoss has the best macro in the game now. They retain shift click, every other race has to hit a button multiple times :D (which I actually like this change because it nerfs zerg macro which was just quite frankly out of control and probably still will be)
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I suspect that the Fungal Growth change was less of a balance issue, then a what blizzard envisioned the spell as issue. It was probably meant for things like holding marine's in place while blings roll into them, rather than destroying mutaballs.
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well...this is exactly why its being tested out. who knows maybe neural parasite will be reduced to 50 energy and allow for infested terrans to be cast while holding the mind control so as to give a better AA to zerg.
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On December 06 2010 10:01 Icekommander wrote:
I suspect that the Fungal Growth change was less of a balance issue, then a what blizzard envisioned the spell as issue. It was probably meant for things like holding marine's in place while blings roll into them, rather than destroying mutaballs.
I think this might be right on, though i am pretty sure in an interview they said for the most part they were just going to let the metagame evolve on its own, and only worry about balance. I personally think it was just a well disguised phoenix buff.
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I've played a few and observed a few games on PTR, and so far it hasn't made much of a difference. The one thing I have noticed is that it's easier to get a couple Phoenixes out of a single Stargate and still have time to start getting VRs when you need them.
I still think Starport Reactor is a big problem in late game PvT, but this should allow Protoss to try to counter mass Viking with enough Pheonix to sort of make a difference when combined with Stalkers.
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On December 06 2010 08:04 skYfiVe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 06:42 Severedevil wrote:Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop. 100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can. The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.
.... Burrow. And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks. How can you have 3000 posts on this site and not have any logic behind what you say? I would assume you have been around long enough to know that in broodwar 2 scourge would kill a dropship... thats less than 100min 150 gas. So your first point has no backing on it. Secondly, while scourge could kill dropships alone, infestors can only kill the dropship alone if it has around 125 energy... 1 fungal + 2 infested terran (still wouldn't kill the medivac in most cases because fungal doesn't last long enough). If say, a terran is trying to drop the main base of a zerg, should you not be able to punish a risky move with fungal + anti-air? You need more than just that 100 minerals 150 gas no matter the situation, whether it be hydras, queens, or what have you. Secondly, burrow is worthless because you can't fungal out of it... and as Blade said most Terrans scan to be sure its safe. (where u can see the infestor and possibly snipe it before they see the drop, or just drop elsewhere) Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there. Nydus's are too expensive to be used from base to base unless to an island, and bases are close enough in starcraft 2 with creep for it to lend much of a hand. Finally, 2 mutas CAN kill a drop if there are no marines in it because they are faster than medivacs. The loss of fungal for infestors seems to result in the loss of good zergs who stay on top of watching their minimap from punishing terrans risky play. It would simply be too difficult for zerg otherwise because with planetaries and tanks it is too hard to counter the terran for having less units in their primary army. It is all the same as in Broodwar where if you lost your shuttle/reaver it was a huge cost, but that's the chances you take with a unit/units that can do such damage.
You do realize that in BW scourge came 2 to an egg so thus 2 scourge were 25/75. Not that that is really relivant to anything.
And to say that a drop can not be killed by single infestor (pre fungal growth patch) is a groundless statement. Not only have I seen it happen but it makes since as 2 marines (without stim) can almost kill a dropship during the timespan of fungal growth and infested terrans do more damage than marines do. And even if they couldn't kill the dropship fast enough chances are they are dropping you then they are at your base. Meaning you have at least 1 queen in most situations to help with the dps that really isn't included in the cost of defending the drop because its something you built anyway whether a drop occurs or not.
Also you say that nydus are too expensive to go from base to base? Regardless of what race you play you should have either seen this or expierianced this. Where a toss/terran player decides to pincer attack the zerg in middle of their expos so many reinforceing units are killed before they can rally with the rest of the army. In BW what you would do is build a nydus canal (yes this was significantly cheaper) so you could rally the reinforcements to the proper side you wanted them to attack from. In SC2 it is more expensive to do this but this had to be done due to the other advantages the nydus has.
If I made my army 4-5 original army 4-5 hydras smaller but in exchange for this all of your reinforcements always fight as one I would say that's a pretty even trade. Who knows how many units a toss or terran can pick off that are on their way to the fray.
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They should just change fungal growth to how ensnare works from SC1. Slowing everything down drastically isntead of root and damage for both ground and air would be a lot more balanced in my opinion.
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The more I think about this infestor change the more it pisses me off. It just takes away a myriad of strategies against p/t and devolves ZvZ into a gas race mutafest except this time there is no scourge for micro wars. Just pure gas race garbage.
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On December 06 2010 07:48 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments Are you serious? Wow. I seriously doubt any respectable tournament will ban something that blizzard has implemented. Especially something so minute as a clock. Funny that YOU would say THAT is cheating..
Not minute at all. It's basically the secret to SjoW's success.
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• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.
Isn't this huge, or am I misunderstanding this?
Also, what kind of points rating would someone need to be at to make Master's league?
And is the ladder being reset?
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is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf
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On the FG matter...
Really? Zerg's anti air is so freaking shitty already... Hydras obviously evolved from snails and are really only viable anti air in early/midgame with infestors to fungal, queens are immobile and can't leave your base, corruptors are only really viable to get as anti air if your enemy is _REALLY_ massing air units...
This leaves the Mutalisk which is good and mobile but this also means that Zerg has got to get mutalisks in 97% of all games to block air, especially in early/midgame and that my friends... is a broken race.
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I think it trivialized air against zerg too much. One instant click = total victory. Bit too good against air.
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On December 06 2010 11:14 justiceknight wrote:
is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf
its in the changelog, u cant hold down nemore
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On December 06 2010 11:14 justiceknight wrote:
is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf
Apparently being able to hold down hotkeys was a bug. Go make a noise on the Blizzard forums - I as much as everyone else don't want to see this fix go live.
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On December 06 2010 10:09 terranghost wrote:In BW what you would do is build a nydus canal (yes this was significantly cheaper) so you could rally the reinforcements to the proper side you wanted them to attack from. In SC2 it is more expensive to do this but this had to be done due to the other advantages the nydus has.
If I made my army 4-5 original army 4-5 hydras smaller but in exchange for this all of your reinforcements always fight as one I would say that's a pretty even trade. Who knows how many units a toss or terran can pick off that are on their way to the fray.
Except it takes longer to unload a Nydus than it takes your army to run through the map.
Not to mention your army you come out in convinient (for the enemy) 1 units at a time, and in a perfect line.
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On December 06 2010 10:57 Subversion wrote:
• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.
Isn't this huge, or am I misunderstanding this?
We shall see. Changing it to the center was idiotic. It will still be worse than it was before patch and hotfix since the current radius is less than the worst case scenario before. They are currently effective as a tech switch since Zerg can remax his army using Ultras faster than other races but on a per cost basis they will still probably be below par.
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EPT
