• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:15
CEST 08:15
KST 15:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou12Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (March 17-23): Clem Bounces Back DreamHack Open 2013 revealed The New Patch Killed Mech!
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
Is there anyway to get a private coach? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 21 OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Current Meta Roaring Currents ASL final [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1282 users

Patch 1.2.0 on PTR - Page 135

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 133 134 135 136 137 158 Next
skYfiVe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States382 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 00:22:05
December 05 2010 23:04 GMT
#2681
On December 06 2010 06:42 Severedevil wrote:


Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop.

100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can.

Show nested quote +
The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.

....

Burrow.

And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks.


How can you have 3000 posts on this site and not have any logic behind what you say? I would assume you have been around long enough to know that in broodwar 2 scourge would kill a dropship... thats less than 100min 150 gas. So your first point has no backing on it. Secondly, while scourge could kill dropships alone, infestors can only kill the dropship alone if it has around 125 energy... 1 fungal + 2 infested terran (still wouldn't kill the medivac in most cases because fungal doesn't last long enough).

If say, a terran is trying to drop the main base of a zerg, should you not be able to punish a risky move with fungal + anti-air? You need more than just that 100 minerals 150 gas no matter the situation, whether it be hydras, queens, or what have you. Secondly, burrow is worthless because you can't fungal out of it... and as Blade said most Terrans scan to be sure its safe. (where u can see the infestor and possibly snipe it before they see the drop, or just drop elsewhere)

Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there.

Nydus's are too expensive to be used from base to base unless to an island, and bases are close enough in starcraft 2 with creep for it to lend much of a hand.

Finally, 2 mutas CAN kill a drop if there are no marines in it because they are faster than medivacs.

The loss of fungal for infestors seems to result in the loss of good zergs who stay on top of watching their minimap from punishing terrans risky play. It would simply be too difficult for zerg otherwise because with planetaries and tanks it is too hard to counter the terran for having less units in their primary army. It is all the same as in Broodwar where if you lost your shuttle/reaver it was a huge cost, but that's the chances you take with a unit/units that can do such damage.
"1baseiwa"
Applecakes
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia319 Posts
December 05 2010 23:09 GMT
#2682
On December 06 2010 07:01 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 06:57 WhoaDrugs wrote:
"Extreme" Graphics? Higher than Ultra? that must be insane.



Anyone has their game on extreme. Is it really a big difference?

Comparative Screenshots would be nice.


The only difference between ultra and extreme is: ultra has Indirect Shadows turned off, extreme has it turned on. Indirect Shadows only affects "story mode sets and cut scenes" - aka there is no difference between ultra and extreme.
Fwiffo
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada57 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 00:58:24
December 06 2010 00:43 GMT
#2683
I can understand all this Zerg QQing about the proposed FG nerf, it IS an insane ability - immobilize all units (ground AND air) in a radius of 2 for 8s and dish out 36 guaranteed damage for 75 energy and researched by default. God, I'd kill for Psi Storm to do that.

And @skYfiVe your statement "Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there." You know that the High Templar moves even slower ABOVE ground than the Infestor under it!
Lockindal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States73 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 00:57:30
December 06 2010 00:46 GMT
#2684
On December 04 2010 10:57 ZekZ wrote:
holy fuck i just relized cant fungal medivacs anymore!!!


Yeah, they just made infestors pretty much useless.

infested terrans too slow to be useful, and neural stuff is so easy to counter (plus short duration)...

Air vs Z is going to be insanely OP now (as if it wasn't already) since they only have mutas and corrupters. WTB scourge back plz blizz!

EDIT: Also, protoss has the best macro in the game now. They retain shift click, every other race has to hit a button multiple times :D (which I actually like this change because it nerfs zerg macro which was just quite frankly out of control and probably still will be)
Icekommander
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada483 Posts
December 06 2010 01:01 GMT
#2685
I suspect that the Fungal Growth change was less of a balance issue, then a what blizzard envisioned the spell as issue. It was probably meant for things like holding marine's in place while blings roll into them, rather than destroying mutaballs.
Time Flies like an arrow. Fruit Flies like a banana.
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
December 06 2010 01:03 GMT
#2686
well...this is exactly why its being tested out. who knows maybe neural parasite will be reduced to 50 energy and allow for infested terrans to be cast while holding the mind control so as to give a better AA to zerg.
PointyBagels
Profile Joined September 2010
United States90 Posts
December 06 2010 01:05 GMT
#2687
On December 06 2010 10:01 Icekommander wrote:
I suspect that the Fungal Growth change was less of a balance issue, then a what blizzard envisioned the spell as issue. It was probably meant for things like holding marine's in place while blings roll into them, rather than destroying mutaballs.


I think this might be right on, though i am pretty sure in an interview they said for the most part they were just going to let the metagame evolve on its own, and only worry about balance. I personally think it was just a well disguised phoenix buff.
Crichton
Profile Joined September 2010
Japan196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 01:09:10
December 06 2010 01:07 GMT
#2688
I've played a few and observed a few games on PTR, and so far it hasn't made much of a difference. The one thing I have noticed is that it's easier to get a couple Phoenixes out of a single Stargate and still have time to start getting VRs when you need them.

I still think Starport Reactor is a big problem in late game PvT, but this should allow Protoss to try to counter mass Viking with enough Pheonix to sort of make a difference when combined with Stalkers.
Protoss is the easy race, but I'm sticking with it.
terranghost
Profile Joined May 2010
United States980 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 01:12:52
December 06 2010 01:09 GMT
#2689
On December 06 2010 08:04 skYfiVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 06:42 Severedevil wrote:


Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop.

100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can.

The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.

....

Burrow.

And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks.


How can you have 3000 posts on this site and not have any logic behind what you say? I would assume you have been around long enough to know that in broodwar 2 scourge would kill a dropship... thats less than 100min 150 gas. So your first point has no backing on it. Secondly, while scourge could kill dropships alone, infestors can only kill the dropship alone if it has around 125 energy... 1 fungal + 2 infested terran (still wouldn't kill the medivac in most cases because fungal doesn't last long enough).

If say, a terran is trying to drop the main base of a zerg, should you not be able to punish a risky move with fungal + anti-air? You need more than just that 100 minerals 150 gas no matter the situation, whether it be hydras, queens, or what have you. Secondly, burrow is worthless because you can't fungal out of it... and as Blade said most Terrans scan to be sure its safe. (where u can see the infestor and possibly snipe it before they see the drop, or just drop elsewhere)

Burrow move is far slower than running, so absolutely zero point there.

Nydus's are too expensive to be used from base to base unless to an island, and bases are close enough in starcraft 2 with creep for it to lend much of a hand.

Finally, 2 mutas CAN kill a drop if there are no marines in it because they are faster than medivacs.

The loss of fungal for infestors seems to result in the loss of good zergs who stay on top of watching their minimap from punishing terrans risky play. It would simply be too difficult for zerg otherwise because with planetaries and tanks it is too hard to counter the terran for having less units in their primary army. It is all the same as in Broodwar where if you lost your shuttle/reaver it was a huge cost, but that's the chances you take with a unit/units that can do such damage.



You do realize that in BW scourge came 2 to an egg so thus 2 scourge were 25/75. Not that that is really relivant to anything.

And to say that a drop can not be killed by single infestor (pre fungal growth patch) is a groundless statement. Not only have I seen it happen but it makes since as 2 marines (without stim) can almost kill a dropship during the timespan of fungal growth and infested terrans do more damage than marines do. And even if they couldn't kill the dropship fast enough chances are they are dropping you then they are at your base. Meaning you have at least 1 queen in most situations to help with the dps that really isn't included in the cost of defending the drop because its something you built anyway whether a drop occurs or not.

Also you say that nydus are too expensive to go from base to base? Regardless of what race you play you should have either seen this or expierianced this. Where a toss/terran player decides to pincer attack the zerg in middle of their expos so many reinforceing units are killed before they can rally with the rest of the army. In BW what you would do is build a nydus canal (yes this was significantly cheaper) so you could rally the reinforcements to the proper side you wanted them to attack from. In SC2 it is more expensive to do this but this had to be done due to the other advantages the nydus has.
If I made my army 4-5 original army 4-5 hydras smaller but in exchange for this all of your reinforcements always fight as one I would say that's a pretty even trade. Who knows how many units a toss or terran can pick off that are on their way to the fray.
"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it." - Thomas Sowell
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
December 06 2010 01:13 GMT
#2690
They should just change fungal growth to how ensnare works from SC1. Slowing everything down drastically isntead of root and damage for both ground and air would be a lot more balanced in my opinion.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Bull-Demon
Profile Joined January 2003
United States582 Posts
December 06 2010 01:32 GMT
#2691
The more I think about this infestor change the more it pisses me off. It just takes away a myriad of strategies against p/t and devolves ZvZ into a gas race mutafest except this time there is no scourge for micro wars. Just pure gas race garbage.
~_~
HalfAmazing
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands402 Posts
December 06 2010 01:39 GMT
#2692
On December 06 2010 07:48 Karthane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments


Are you serious? Wow.

I seriously doubt any respectable tournament will ban something that blizzard has implemented. Especially something so minute as a clock.

Funny that YOU would say THAT is cheating..


Not minute at all. It's basically the secret to SjoW's success.
You can figure out the other half.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
December 06 2010 01:57 GMT
#2693
• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.

Isn't this huge, or am I misunderstanding this?

Also, what kind of points rating would someone need to be at to make Master's league?

And is the ladder being reset?
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
December 06 2010 02:14 GMT
#2694
is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf
OnFire
Profile Joined July 2010
324 Posts
December 06 2010 02:23 GMT
#2695
On the FG matter...
Really? Zerg's anti air is so freaking shitty already... Hydras obviously evolved from snails and are really only viable anti air in early/midgame with infestors to fungal, queens are immobile and can't leave your base, corruptors are only really viable to get as anti air if your enemy is _REALLY_ massing air units...

This leaves the Mutalisk which is good and mobile but this also means that Zerg has got to get mutalisks in 97% of all games to block air, especially in early/midgame and that my friends... is a broken race.
HYDRA - EFFORT - LETA
Ascendant13
Profile Joined August 2010
66 Posts
December 06 2010 02:30 GMT
#2696
I think it trivialized air against zerg too much. One instant click = total victory. Bit too good against air.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
December 06 2010 02:43 GMT
#2697
On December 06 2010 11:14 justiceknight wrote:
is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf


its in the changelog, u cant hold down nemore
Almania
Profile Joined September 2010
145 Posts
December 06 2010 02:53 GMT
#2698
On December 06 2010 11:14 justiceknight wrote:
is it just me or i cant hold down button to macro for toss or any races? just played a game and i tried holding S button for stalker and it doesnt work,i have to press S click S click S click to macro wtf


Apparently being able to hold down hotkeys was a bug. Go make a noise on the Blizzard forums - I as much as everyone else don't want to see this fix go live.
Jotoco
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1342 Posts
December 06 2010 02:55 GMT
#2699
On December 06 2010 10:09 terranghost wrote:In BW what you would do is build a nydus canal (yes this was significantly cheaper) so you could rally the reinforcements to the proper side you wanted them to attack from. In SC2 it is more expensive to do this but this had to be done due to the other advantages the nydus has.
If I made my army 4-5 original army 4-5 hydras smaller but in exchange for this all of your reinforcements always fight as one I would say that's a pretty even trade. Who knows how many units a toss or terran can pick off that are on their way to the fray.


Except it takes longer to unload a Nydus than it takes your army to run through the map.

Not to mention your army you come out in convinient (for the enemy) 1 units at a time, and in a perfect line.

Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
December 06 2010 03:02 GMT
#2700
On December 06 2010 10:57 Subversion wrote:
• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.

Isn't this huge, or am I misunderstanding this?



We shall see. Changing it to the center was idiotic. It will still be worse than it was before patch and hotfix since the current radius is less than the worst case scenario before. They are currently effective as a tech switch since Zerg can remax his army using Ultras faster than other races but on a per cost basis they will still probably be below par.
Prev 1 133 134 135 136 137 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#54
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 867
Aegong 43
Noble 26
Purpose 10
NotJumperer 7
League of Legends
JimRising 775
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K668
Coldzera 252
Other Games
summit1g7115
WinterStarcraft403
C9.Mang0338
Tasteless143
Mew2King105
Trikslyr10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick890
Counter-Strike
PGL270
Other Games
BasetradeTV80
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 18
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV330
League of Legends
• Lourlo1479
• Stunt417
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 45m
OSC
9h 45m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
16h 45m
The PondCast
1d 3h
OSC
1d 5h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.