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On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments
timer i understand, but why keybinds ?
it will make fast players faster while slow(er) players will always be slow(er). at tourney level it will allow for more personalized gameplay which will only further differentiate the good from the better, but it won't be dumbing down of the game or unfair in any way shape or form as far as i can tell
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On December 06 2010 04:28 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 04:23 FrankWalls wrote:On December 06 2010 04:16 Dente wrote:On December 06 2010 04:14 MorroW wrote:
u can hold in shift and warp in zealots with only 1 z click but u cant hold in shift for larvas so lings must each time click z afaik. i hope im not remembering incorrectly here but i think thats how it is in this ptr
even if im wrong toss units still cost more so it will always be more clicks for zerg than the other races. indeed the race for a man who does not fear carpeltunnel ) I think it is more like this: shift + Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z. you can shift then hold in z and click around. its as many clicks as you need zealots its just done with the mouse hand and not the keyboard hand Right, but the amount of clicks is equal to the amount of button presses you'd need for zerg. z+10 clicks is 10 zealots, for zerg it's just 10 clicks on z...
That's your problem. Not the fact that they changed how it works.
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On December 06 2010 06:23 anatem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments timer i understand, but why keybinds ? it will make fast players faster while slow(er) players will always be slow(er). at tourney level it will allow for more personalized gameplay which will only further differentiate the good from the better, but it won't be dumbing down of the game or unfair in any way shape or form as far as i can tell
Well some people have smaller hands than others, so the most convenient hotkey setup for one person is probably different than it would be for another.
I wouldn't want hand size to be the the deciding factor in a game (or force any amateur to have to buy a custom keyboard to be able to compete!)
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On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments
this troll is so poor im close to feed him so he doesnt die.. poor poor troll D=
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On December 06 2010 05:08 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 12:54 blade55555 wrote:On December 05 2010 12:50 avilo wrote:On December 05 2010 12:35 Myles wrote:
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard. lol clicking F on a unit which then gets paralyzed and loses health isn't exactly the most skillful thing you can do in this game. It's actually very easy to do. Whenever you do see a fungal go off like that on a Dship, it's 100% loss to the Terran, and the only cost to the Z is basically 75 nrg on his infestor...yeah...you can see why that's a problem can't you? lol can you not see the problem of forcing zergs to go muta's with no other options? You do see the problem dont' you? No you probably don't so I well explain. Right now zergs can fight drops with infestors or muta's (or both if they prefer). Now with this patch they only have muta's which as the game goes later and later and when your playing a good terran your muta's won't get as effective unless the terran lets you take 8 bases or something. So the only option zerg can do is muta's or lose to drop play every game. Now do you see the problem? I doubt it but Jinro even thinks this is a dumb change as it now forces every zvt to be muta heavy or might is well gg when you start playing otherwise as a good zerg (not you) well actually abuse drop ships especially if the zerg doesn't have mutalisk out (and hydra are a joke zvt). Can YOU not see the problem of infestors making drop harrassment 100% suicide runs? They are not removing infestors from the game. You can still do the same infestor turtle style, it's just that with this fungal growth change, now the Terran can decide to run the drop if it's going to be stopped, able to save his units. How it is now...once you decide to send in the dropship, once it's in fungal range, the drop is 100% dead. So this change doesn't change infestor's ability to stop drops AFTER the cargo is unloaded, but now it's not a forgone conclusion that Terran loses 100% of the drop cargo + the dropship. You're naive if you think Terrans don't already abuse drops as much as possible versus Zerg. That's the entire point of the change related to TvZ. Zerg do not get free dropship kills, and it's not so much of a purposely having to "play bad" as T to do damage to Z. Because every Terran right now knows if you fly dropships into Zerg territory and there's an infestor there, your drop is never going to go back home. The same obviously goes for PvZ where one fungal means protoss loses a huge chunk of their air. So it's a great change for the game. Obviously, Zergs in the strong position they are in right now will not agree.
Did you know other top non zerg players agree that this change is stupid? I know its surprising to you that other top terran players can agree this change is stupid (look for Jinro's post he says this is a retarded change).
The same thing can be said about muta's. When muta's get to your drop ships your drop ship is 100% dead unless its like 2 muta's. Should Muta's not be able to attack drop ships then?
The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.
As for PvZ in high level play i rarely see infestors in that match up from the many games I have watched on stream, or anything so really this change isn't for PvZ.
Of course its not surprising again you would disagree with me as when tvz was heavily favoring terran you thought the match up was balanced and now that you don't get your free wins anymore you think the whole match up is terribly imbalanced with it favoring zerg (which is just lol right there).
Why I respond to your posts when no matter how many top players disagree with you or anything wont' change your mind I don't see mine doing any different.
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On December 06 2010 06:31 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 05:08 avilo wrote:On December 05 2010 12:54 blade55555 wrote:On December 05 2010 12:50 avilo wrote:On December 05 2010 12:35 Myles wrote:
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard. lol clicking F on a unit which then gets paralyzed and loses health isn't exactly the most skillful thing you can do in this game. It's actually very easy to do. Whenever you do see a fungal go off like that on a Dship, it's 100% loss to the Terran, and the only cost to the Z is basically 75 nrg on his infestor...yeah...you can see why that's a problem can't you? lol can you not see the problem of forcing zergs to go muta's with no other options? You do see the problem dont' you? No you probably don't so I well explain. Right now zergs can fight drops with infestors or muta's (or both if they prefer). Now with this patch they only have muta's which as the game goes later and later and when your playing a good terran your muta's won't get as effective unless the terran lets you take 8 bases or something. So the only option zerg can do is muta's or lose to drop play every game. Now do you see the problem? I doubt it but Jinro even thinks this is a dumb change as it now forces every zvt to be muta heavy or might is well gg when you start playing otherwise as a good zerg (not you) well actually abuse drop ships especially if the zerg doesn't have mutalisk out (and hydra are a joke zvt). Can YOU not see the problem of infestors making drop harrassment 100% suicide runs? They are not removing infestors from the game. You can still do the same infestor turtle style, it's just that with this fungal growth change, now the Terran can decide to run the drop if it's going to be stopped, able to save his units. How it is now...once you decide to send in the dropship, once it's in fungal range, the drop is 100% dead. So this change doesn't change infestor's ability to stop drops AFTER the cargo is unloaded, but now it's not a forgone conclusion that Terran loses 100% of the drop cargo + the dropship. You're naive if you think Terrans don't already abuse drops as much as possible versus Zerg. That's the entire point of the change related to TvZ. Zerg do not get free dropship kills, and it's not so much of a purposely having to "play bad" as T to do damage to Z. Because every Terran right now knows if you fly dropships into Zerg territory and there's an infestor there, your drop is never going to go back home. The same obviously goes for PvZ where one fungal means protoss loses a huge chunk of their air. So it's a great change for the game. Obviously, Zergs in the strong position they are in right now will not agree. The same thing can be said about muta's. When muta's get to your drop ships your drop ship is 100% dead unless its like 2 muta's. Should Muta's not be able to attack drop ships then?
Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop.
100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can.
The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.
....
Burrow.
And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks.
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On December 06 2010 06:42 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 06:31 blade55555 wrote:On December 06 2010 05:08 avilo wrote:On December 05 2010 12:54 blade55555 wrote:On December 05 2010 12:50 avilo wrote:On December 05 2010 12:35 Myles wrote:
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard. lol clicking F on a unit which then gets paralyzed and loses health isn't exactly the most skillful thing you can do in this game. It's actually very easy to do. Whenever you do see a fungal go off like that on a Dship, it's 100% loss to the Terran, and the only cost to the Z is basically 75 nrg on his infestor...yeah...you can see why that's a problem can't you? lol can you not see the problem of forcing zergs to go muta's with no other options? You do see the problem dont' you? No you probably don't so I well explain. Right now zergs can fight drops with infestors or muta's (or both if they prefer). Now with this patch they only have muta's which as the game goes later and later and when your playing a good terran your muta's won't get as effective unless the terran lets you take 8 bases or something. So the only option zerg can do is muta's or lose to drop play every game. Now do you see the problem? I doubt it but Jinro even thinks this is a dumb change as it now forces every zvt to be muta heavy or might is well gg when you start playing otherwise as a good zerg (not you) well actually abuse drop ships especially if the zerg doesn't have mutalisk out (and hydra are a joke zvt). Can YOU not see the problem of infestors making drop harrassment 100% suicide runs? They are not removing infestors from the game. You can still do the same infestor turtle style, it's just that with this fungal growth change, now the Terran can decide to run the drop if it's going to be stopped, able to save his units. How it is now...once you decide to send in the dropship, once it's in fungal range, the drop is 100% dead. So this change doesn't change infestor's ability to stop drops AFTER the cargo is unloaded, but now it's not a forgone conclusion that Terran loses 100% of the drop cargo + the dropship. You're naive if you think Terrans don't already abuse drops as much as possible versus Zerg. That's the entire point of the change related to TvZ. Zerg do not get free dropship kills, and it's not so much of a purposely having to "play bad" as T to do damage to Z. Because every Terran right now knows if you fly dropships into Zerg territory and there's an infestor there, your drop is never going to go back home. The same obviously goes for PvZ where one fungal means protoss loses a huge chunk of their air. So it's a great change for the game. Obviously, Zergs in the strong position they are in right now will not agree. The same thing can be said about muta's. When muta's get to your drop ships your drop ship is 100% dead unless its like 2 muta's. Should Muta's not be able to attack drop ships then? Right, 200 minerals + 200 gas worth of mutas can't corner and slaughter a drop. 100 minerals + 150 gas of infestors can. Show nested quote +The only way your drop ship will die to infestors is if you fly it in its range if you used scan or knew where the infestors were if there are any in play you can just fly around them they aren't as mobile as mutalisk either so they can't just magically pop up under your drop ship.
.... Burrow. And burrow-move. And Nydus Networks.
Yeah burrow move wont' get there instantly as I said. And never see Nydus Networks so my point still stands.
And again 2 muta's wont' kill a drop ships which is what I said that same thing about muta's killing drops unless there are only 2 (medivac with marines + stim will kill 2 muta's lol don't know why that surprises you -_-).
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(look for Jinro's post he says this is a retarded change).
just shocking that a player who rarely abuses harass or does drops would criticize a patch that makes a style he doesn't use more effective
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"Extreme" Graphics? Higher than Ultra? that must be insane.
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On December 06 2010 06:57 WhoaDrugs wrote:
"Extreme" Graphics? Higher than Ultra? that must be insane.
Anyone has their game on extreme. Is it really a big difference?
Comparative Screenshots would be nice. 
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On December 06 2010 06:26 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 04:28 Uncultured wrote:On December 06 2010 04:23 FrankWalls wrote:On December 06 2010 04:16 Dente wrote:On December 06 2010 04:14 MorroW wrote:
u can hold in shift and warp in zealots with only 1 z click but u cant hold in shift for larvas so lings must each time click z afaik. i hope im not remembering incorrectly here but i think thats how it is in this ptr
even if im wrong toss units still cost more so it will always be more clicks for zerg than the other races. indeed the race for a man who does not fear carpeltunnel ) I think it is more like this: shift + Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z. you can shift then hold in z and click around. its as many clicks as you need zealots its just done with the mouse hand and not the keyboard hand Right, but the amount of clicks is equal to the amount of button presses you'd need for zerg. z+10 clicks is 10 zealots, for zerg it's just 10 clicks on z... That's your problem. Not the fact that they changed how it works.
So your argument is that a mouse click is fundamentally different from a button press? Then I say that the two cannot be compared in such a fashion as to consider one easier than the other. They're too different to compare.
Saying zerg macro is harder than terran or protoss is not the same thing as saying that zerg macro is slightly harder now, because of the change. Which I don't think anyone with intelligence would argue against. I would, however, argue that the change isn't going to lose you a game, and therfore has an effect too insignificant to even bother worrying over.
If the change occurs, do you think anyone will talk about it a month afterwards? Nope. It will be forgotten, just like the wire-frame larva injecting arguments when that was taken out...
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As a note, Extreme graphics was available in beta for those who remembered, and could be activated pre-1.2 with variable edits in variables.txt
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Tbh, the implementation of custom hotkeys just got me re-interested in actually playing this game again. I've mostly become a spectator of the GSL and not actually playing anymore. I've always felt uncomfortable with the pre-made hotkey setups and as much as I tried to get over it, the awkwardness took the fun out of the game for me. I don't care if I lose so long as I feel like I was truly in control haha.
Good job blizz
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I am glad about this patch. I really hope the fungal change makes it into the real game.
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Infestors getting raped... 
ZvP is going to really suck now lol
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On December 06 2010 05:51 TT1 wrote:
i consider custom hotkeys + the ingame timer as cheating, i hope they both get banned from tournaments
Are you serious? Wow.
I seriously doubt any respectable tournament will ban something that blizzard has implemented. Especially something so minute as a clock.
Funny that YOU would say THAT is cheating..
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On December 06 2010 05:08 avilo wrote:
Can YOU not see the problem of infestors making drop harrassment 100% suicide runs? They are not removing infestors from the game. You can still do the same infestor turtle style, it's just that with this fungal growth change, now the Terran can decide to run the drop if it's going to be stopped, able to save his units.
This is such a terrible statement. Scourge shut down drops much harder than infestors do currently, yet drops can still be extremely effective against the best zergs in the world in BW. Saying that drops are 100% suicide runs when infestors are out is laughable. How can you even say that with a straight face?
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On December 06 2010 06:53 starckr wrote:just shocking that a player who rarely abuses harass or does drops would criticize a patch that makes a style he doesn't use more effective
Don't care much for all the theory-crafting going on but Jinro uses drops. Jinro uses drops well. See his RO64 match in the GSL, apparently even the Korean commentators were raving about his `boxer-esque' dropship harass.
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custom hotkeys!
0pp9pp again. rejoice evermore
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double post.. other one is fixed.
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EPT
