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On December 05 2010 11:28 Carthage wrote:
Stimmed marines and hydras on creep don't have that big a speed difference if my math is right( something like 2.9 vs 3.3, and you can't stim endlessly ), I don't see why you couldn't move in hydras to defeat mutalisks just like how terran move in marines.
Terrans have turrets with huge dps/range , they have thor with huge dmg/perhit/range?
U cannot be that offensive with hydras cuz they are friggin slow :D
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Wait, so ladder is being reset with the new patch?
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On December 05 2010 11:33 motus wrote:
Wait, so ladder is being reset with the new patch?
I think so, new patch with new season.
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On December 05 2010 11:28 Carthage wrote:
Stimmed marines and hydras on creep don't have that big a speed difference if my math is right( something like 2.9 vs 3.3, and you can't stim endlessly ), I don't see why you couldn't move in hydras to defeat mutalisks just like how terran move in marines.
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
The same deal with Protoss - the muta ball can be fended off with stalkers and cannons until out come phoenixes to try and deal with it head on (difficult to transition into but possible), or blink stalkers to catch the mutas out of position, or for the collossus timing push, or for storm to shut down the threat directly.
Zerg don't have these options with hydras. Spores can't handle mutas; hydras are too slow and fragile to handle a timing push. Their version of a thor - the threat of fungal growth is as real as the threat of flying your mutas into a Thor - has just been removed on the PTR.
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I can't even connect to the test server. Does anyone know how I can get around it. Blizzard said they are looking into it. But maybe someone here had the problem and fixed it?
BTW:it says i need a sc2 licence in my account. Which of coarse i do have it.
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On December 05 2010 11:37 Dragar wrote:
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
Spore colonies so need a +1 range upgrade.
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On December 05 2010 11:43 lowercase wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 11:37 Dragar wrote:
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
Spore colonies so need a +1 range upgrade.
Upgrade ? How about for free? at least
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On December 05 2010 11:50 Onioncookie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 11:43 lowercase wrote:On December 05 2010 11:37 Dragar wrote:
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
Spore colonies so need a +1 range upgrade. Upgrade ? How about for free? at least
spores got a stealth undocumented range buff about 4 patches ago, they now have the same range as turrets (before their upgrade).
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On December 05 2010 11:51 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 11:50 Onioncookie wrote:On December 05 2010 11:43 lowercase wrote:On December 05 2010 11:37 Dragar wrote:
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
Spore colonies so need a +1 range upgrade. Upgrade ? How about for free? at least spores got a stealth undocumented range buff about 4 patches ago, they now have the same range as turrets (before their upgrade).
Oh wow , ur right didnt know that ! But i still think zerg needs Fungal to not get harrased to death by air cuz hydras arent rly the best choice to kill fast flying units
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On December 05 2010 12:04 Onioncookie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 11:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2010 11:50 Onioncookie wrote:On December 05 2010 11:43 lowercase wrote:On December 05 2010 11:37 Dragar wrote:
Because this buys you time for something. To get turrets up (spores are no good; they don't have the range); to gather enough momentum for your timing push, or to get a Thor out to shut down the harass.
Spore colonies so need a +1 range upgrade. Upgrade ? How about for free? at least spores got a stealth undocumented range buff about 4 patches ago, they now have the same range as turrets (before their upgrade). Oh wow , ur right didnt know that ! But i still think zerg needs Fungal to not get harrased to death by air cuz hydras arent rly the best choice to kill fast flying units
we either need fungal to work on air, or turn corruption into a fungal vs air (either only damage or only the hold) :D
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Isn't all of this discussion essentially untested theorycrafting?
I think these changes need a solid week of play by everyone on the servers to actually get some meaningful information about the patch changes.
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On December 05 2010 12:12 CTuro wrote:
Isn't all of this discussion essentially untested theorycrafting?
I think these changes need a solid week of play by everyone on the servers to actually get some meaningful information about the patch changes.
i played 20 games and it just got so discouraging to me that i couldn't do anymore. Being forced into muta-ling-bling +optional roach in every matchup is really really bad. and yes 20 isn't a ton, but the fact that i got so discouraged so quickly is a bad sign, PS. i was the guy constantly playign vs Terrans during beta and doing fine vs them ect. i don't quit easily.
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On December 05 2010 07:20 SpooN) wrote:
can someone explain how the attack priority works with Phoenix? I never quite understood it.
I just played a game on PTR where i made my push with banshee/marine against phoenix/stalker/zealot and even though i had a 20 food larger army, i notice the phoenixes were taking almost no damage and just obliterated my banshees. I had to manually target fire with a small group of marines to get them to attack the phoenix.
Do ground units always take precedence over air units? i fear this threatens my banshee/hellion/raven/marine centric style because phoenixes absolutely demolish banshee/raven.
Thanks for the help!
As far as i understand it, units usually priorize stuff that can shoot them above other things. So in your example, the phoenixes dont shoot ground units, so your marines will first try to mop up the enemies that will shoot them, and then try to attack other stuff in the area, like those phoenixes. In the same way, i am pretty sure that, for example, phoenixes would priorize vikings over banshees. However, this is just how i think it works, and from casual observation. I have not done any tests to verify this behaviour, so i could be wrong.
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On December 05 2010 12:14 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 12:12 CTuro wrote:
Isn't all of this discussion essentially untested theorycrafting?
I think these changes need a solid week of play by everyone on the servers to actually get some meaningful information about the patch changes. i played 20 games and it just got so discouraging to me that i couldn't do anymore. Being forced into muta-ling-bling +optional roach in every matchup is really really bad. and yes 20 isn't a ton, but the fact that i got so discouraged so quickly is a bad sign, PS. i was the guy constantly playign vs Terrans during beta and doing fine vs them ect. i don't quit easily.
Maybe blizzard is passing the shitball from 1 mirror to another every couple of patches and now its the ceremonial handing of the ball from PvP to ZvZ.
On a serious note I'm surprised at the complete change to fungal, they could just add a concussive effect to it so it won't be as penalizing if you get caught (I mean the guinea pig game made me sick) but still deter careless air movement.
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On December 05 2010 12:18 yandere991 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 12:14 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2010 12:12 CTuro wrote:
Isn't all of this discussion essentially untested theorycrafting?
I think these changes need a solid week of play by everyone on the servers to actually get some meaningful information about the patch changes. i played 20 games and it just got so discouraging to me that i couldn't do anymore. Being forced into muta-ling-bling +optional roach in every matchup is really really bad. and yes 20 isn't a ton, but the fact that i got so discouraged so quickly is a bad sign, PS. i was the guy constantly playign vs Terrans during beta and doing fine vs them ect. i don't quit easily. Maybe blizzard is passing the shitball from 1 mirror to another every couple of patches and now its the ceremonial handing of the ball from PvP to ZvZ. On a serious note I'm surprised at the complete change to fungal, they could just add a concussive effect to it so it won't be as penalizing if you get caught (I mean the guinea pig game made me sick) but still deter careless air movement.
watching guinea pig do that just made me realize he has never come up against fungals before.
in ZvZ on the ladder you can QUICKLY tell who has faced infestors and who has not. those who have not tend to lose to fungal easily, while those who do, split their units up into two groups, or send 2-3 in to attack at a time (vs infestors) against which the infestor has to waste a fungal on that, or die. and then they run in with the rest and dominate. also the fact that guinea sat his pheonixes by the infestor for a good 3 seconds before the fungal hit proves he hasn't been in that pheonix vs muta infestor scenerio, a protoss used to it would lift the infestor with 1 pheonix. then run in with the rest. and keep the infestor lifted while the pheonixes run away again. and you lose a pheonix yes, but thats so much better than 6-7 of them.
Also, it's not only ZvZ thats getting messed up, but being FORCED into muta to stop drops vs T and now needing alot of air to stop protoss air, is messing up those matchups too. ANY race shouldn't be forced to have a single option at any pass. unless it's because of the opposing players strategy, and not built into the game.
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@PrinceXizor: You think a pro-gamer that play 8 hours everyday never come up against fungal before? He knew the risk and still use it.
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United States5162 Posts
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard.
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On December 05 2010 12:30 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 12:18 yandere991 wrote:On December 05 2010 12:14 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2010 12:12 CTuro wrote:
Isn't all of this discussion essentially untested theorycrafting?
I think these changes need a solid week of play by everyone on the servers to actually get some meaningful information about the patch changes. i played 20 games and it just got so discouraging to me that i couldn't do anymore. Being forced into muta-ling-bling +optional roach in every matchup is really really bad. and yes 20 isn't a ton, but the fact that i got so discouraged so quickly is a bad sign, PS. i was the guy constantly playign vs Terrans during beta and doing fine vs them ect. i don't quit easily. Maybe blizzard is passing the shitball from 1 mirror to another every couple of patches and now its the ceremonial handing of the ball from PvP to ZvZ. On a serious note I'm surprised at the complete change to fungal, they could just add a concussive effect to it so it won't be as penalizing if you get caught (I mean the guinea pig game made me sick) but still deter careless air movement. watching guinea pig do that just made me realize he has never come up against fungals before. in ZvZ on the ladder you can QUICKLY tell who has faced infestors and who has not. those who have not tend to lose to fungal easily, while those who do, split their units up into two groups, or send 2-3 in to attack at a time (vs infestors) against which the infestor has to waste a fungal on that, or die. and then they run in with the rest and dominate. also the fact that guinea sat his pheonixes by the infestor for a good 3 seconds before the fungal hit proves he hasn't been in that pheonix vs muta infestor scenerio, a protoss used to it would lift the infestor with 1 pheonix. then run in with the rest. and keep the infestor lifted while the pheonixes run away again. and you lose a pheonix yes, but thats so much better than 6-7 of them. Also, it's not only ZvZ thats getting messed up, but being FORCED into muta to stop drops vs T and now needing alot of air to stop protoss air, is messing up those matchups too. ANY race shouldn't be forced to have a single option at any pass. unless it's because of the opposing players strategy, and not built into the game.
I understand what your saying but basically what it amounts to is 1 careless mistake ends up with a critical number of units lost instantaneously. Whether such a extreme situation is warranted is debatable. Imagine if they reduced archon merge time to 3 seconds and gave HTs vortex for 150 energy, I for one would be really opposed this as you could send 1 templar to vortex, warpin 5 others then merge 3 archons and send them in for rape when a muta flock came to close to a stray templar.
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On December 05 2010 12:32 Caphe wrote:
@PrinceXizor: You think a pro-gamer that play 8 hours everyday never come up against fungal before? He knew the risk and still use it.
He either A. didn't go up against infestors before (perfectly reasonable, as they are almost entirely ignored by most korean pros), B. he didn't scout the infestors. or C. he expected the pit was for hive and wasn't watching his pheonixes.
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On December 05 2010 12:38 yandere991 wrote:
I understand what your saying but basically what it amounts to is 1 careless mistake ends up with a critical number of units lost instantaneously. Whether such a extreme situation is warranted is debatable. Imagine if they reduced archon merge time to 3 seconds and gave HTs vortex for 150 energy, I for one would be really opposed this as you could send 1 templar to vortex, warpin 5 others then merge 3 archons and send them in for rape when a muta flock came to close to a stray templar.
1 careless mistake can cause you to lose an entire group of units to a storm, or to a baneling, or to forcefield, or to emp, or to siege tanks, or to a banshee.
it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if you are relying on a unit to keep you in the game (pheonixes in that game) that you take care of those units.
in sc1, a careless defiler movement would result in irradiate and a dead defiler which could cause zerg positioning and just destroy them. careless science vessel movement costs them alot vs scourge. and careless positioning vs zerg means that plague or dark swarm allows your army to just evaporate with little zerg casualties. ditto with storm.
It's a part of the game.
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EPT
