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Patch 1.2.0 on PTR - Page 122

Forum Index > SC2 General
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LilClinkin
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Australia667 Posts
December 05 2010 04:04 GMT
#2421
I think they should allow fungal growth to still damage and reveal air units, but not immobilise them.
Darhaja
Profile Joined September 2010
United States108 Posts
December 05 2010 04:07 GMT
#2422
On December 05 2010 12:50 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 12:35 Myles wrote:
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard.


lol clicking F on a unit which then gets paralyzed and loses health isn't exactly the most skillful thing you can do in this game. It's actually very easy to do.

Whenever you do see a fungal go off like that on a Dship, it's 100% loss to the Terran, and the only cost to the Z is basically 75 nrg on his infestor...yeah...you can see why that's a problem can't you?


Yeah and marines that are ranged do 6 dmg vs a zerglings 5 and zerglings are melee soo, you can see why thats a problem to.. OH WAIT.
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
December 05 2010 04:08 GMT
#2423
On December 05 2010 13:02 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 12:59 AssuredVacancy wrote:
On December 05 2010 12:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 05 2010 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:
is there any particular reason to why they changed fungal growth to not effect air units?

there is no explanation for the PTR changes afaik


According to zelniq, a reliable source told him that the change to fg was to accomodate the fact that protoss can no longer have speed voidrays any more.

thats complete nonsense though, why would they affect 2 completely separate matchups just because void speed was removed, was there a group of people using speed voids to counter infestors? why.


I'm going to have to go with the other poster that opined FG was nerfed because it was too good.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 05 2010 04:08 GMT
#2424
On December 05 2010 13:04 frucisky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 12:54 blade55555 wrote:
On December 05 2010 12:50 avilo wrote:
On December 05 2010 12:35 Myles wrote:
Damn CatZ just put down such a beautiful FG on a trio of Medivacs that were only a second or two away from an undefended hatch. I'm really going to be dissapointed if they remove this aspect of FG which is rewards skill and is very entertaining to see. Please don't do it Blizzard.


lol clicking F on a unit which then gets paralyzed and loses health isn't exactly the most skillful thing you can do in this game. It's actually very easy to do.

Whenever you do see a fungal go off like that on a Dship, it's 100% loss to the Terran, and the only cost to the Z is basically 75 nrg on his infestor...yeah...you can see why that's a problem can't you?


lol can you not see the problem of forcing zergs to go muta's with no other options? You do see the problem dont' you? No you probably don't so I well explain.

Right now zergs can fight drops with infestors or muta's (or both if they prefer). Now with this patch they only have muta's which as the game goes later and later and when your playing a good terran your muta's won't get as effective unless the terran lets you take 8 bases or something.

So the only option zerg can do is muta's or lose to drop play every game. Now do you see the problem? I doubt it but Jinro even thinks this is a dumb change as it now forces every zvt to be muta heavy or might is well gg when you start playing otherwise as a good zerg (not you) well actually abuse drop ships especially if the zerg doesn't have mutalisk out (and hydra are a joke zvt).


Agreed. Zerg now is forced to go mutas. But the thing is, rarely do I see any ZvT where zerg goes anything other than muta/ling/bling + roach anyways. Reason? Hydras suck and roaches get owned by marauders. Also, infestors will not give you the map control to defend from drops. The problem is thus, not this new change, but something more fundamental about ZvT.

Also, I don't really understand why you say mutas get less effective as the game goes later on. Its actually the opposite imo because the large cloud of mutas you see late game can wreck bases and start magic boxing thors with minimal losses. And as more and more mutas accumulate it become very hard for the terran to defend. I don't see how people can say that T has a direct way to handle mutalisks. Marines gotta stim and run around, thors will just get magic-boxed and turrets will eventually die even with repair.


Because once upgrades start hitting for terran's marines they start eating muta's up like their nothing. Even though you could get upgrades as muta's but its hard to want to spare the gas to get upgrades for ground + air and having a good amount of muta/ling/baneling.

So sure if you can keep your muta numbers at a high level and terran's letting you do it while having 4 bases then its not a problem. But against aggressive terrans its hard to keep muta numbers up.

Also another thing this well effect is vs banshee play. Can't uncloak them anymore with fungels (which have saved my ass quiet a few times actually). But I have seen plenty of zergs not go muta's or only make a handful of muta's but dont' focus on it like Idra.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Dragar
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom971 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 04:17:56
December 05 2010 04:17 GMT
#2425
Basically if the zerg overcommits to mutalisks, he can't hold off a direct attack. Both Zerg and Terran players can kill themselves by pressing T too often, though in different ways.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
December 05 2010 04:19 GMT
#2426
Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.

what does that mean ?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
hitman133
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1425 Posts
December 05 2010 04:19 GMT
#2427
On December 05 2010 11:18 BloodreaveZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 11:15 hitman133 wrote:
Just played a game today against 1 zerg. After I killed his entire army, like 100 supplies ahead, then he bumped out 60 ROACHES at 1 time! That's pretty bullshit to me, pls fix the maximum amount of larvae you can spawn.


Yep, larva stack mechanic is pretty broken. Real reason why no other race can keep up with Zerg macro. If they have extra hatches its fine, but a cap of 19 larva per hatch? Wtf seriously.

Yes, seriously, and they can switch tech to response correctly and instantly. Like I have stalkers,zealots,sentries, to colo, then HT also Voidrays, everythings took a lot of time to build up when he didn't take more than 1' to response right away.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 05 2010 04:21 GMT
#2428
On December 05 2010 13:04 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:01 blade55555 wrote:
On December 05 2010 13:00 Carthage wrote:
I don't understand the ZvT complaints.

Did people actually NOT go mutas against terran before?


Yes it was actually pretty viable to a point but you needed infestors of course or again drop ships would dominate you. Now its not going to be viable in zvt.

Building life: Increase + Medivac: Slowed down in the previous patch stopped drops. There is almost no situation in which going muta/bling is not enough to stop drop ships especially with ovvie/creep spread to actually spot the drops...infestors were just an add on to stop MMM.

you aren't really understanding what infestors meant for ZvT. infestors could be used instead of mutalisks. and using lings and creep for control of the map instead. you can expand faster with infestors than with mutas. it's just alot less effective to go infestor than muta vs a 1 basing terran.
aurum510
Profile Joined July 2010
United States229 Posts
December 05 2010 04:33 GMT
#2429
Hellion/thor/banshee in ZvT. Barely manageable before; now unstoppable.
Exe_adrian
Profile Joined August 2010
46 Posts
December 05 2010 04:36 GMT
#2430
-- Infestor

Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.


Ok, how do we counter Muta's in ZvZ now? Hydra's can't catch mutas without fungal growth ... I guess Baneling Wars will be over and Muta Wars will begin.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
December 05 2010 04:46 GMT
#2431
On December 05 2010 13:19 MindRush wrote:
Show nested quote +
Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.

what does that mean ?

cant mineral walk through enemy units anymore. means scouting workers cant run through zealot or other blocks, workers cant escape from an enemy worker surround by right clicking minerals, and maybe most importantly workers for defense cannot gain a good position by mineral walking past the enemy units
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
December 05 2010 04:47 GMT
#2432
On December 05 2010 11:13 Lonyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 10:24 Snorkle wrote:
My favorite part of this thread is the zergs complaining about how to stop mutas in ZvZ with no fungal growth.

guess you get to see how it feels to try and chase mutas around with stalkers for awhile now eh? muahahahah (evil laugh)

but honestly no fungal on air seems fair to me, phoenix harass worked when it was new but once zergs figured out they just had to make one spore crawler per base and an extra queen we were back to square one.

also i saw some complaining about hydra dps? hydras have amazing dps, less than marines yes but they also out-range marines with the upgrade and lets not forget fungal growth still works on marines.


If only protoss had an anti-air unit which was faster than mutalisks and could kite them, theoretically killing an infinite number with only one of that unit.


lol good luck using that one phoenix vs infinite mutas in a REAL game.. hell, 3 phoenix cant even beat 7 muta unless the muta user is retarded.

My response to your stupid post is this ; Too bad protoss didnt have a unit that spreads pylon power, and heals units for massive health instantly, along with injecting gateways with more warping power... ALL for 150 minerals!
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
December 05 2010 04:51 GMT
#2433
On December 05 2010 13:47 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 11:13 Lonyo wrote:
On December 05 2010 10:24 Snorkle wrote:
My favorite part of this thread is the zergs complaining about how to stop mutas in ZvZ with no fungal growth.

guess you get to see how it feels to try and chase mutas around with stalkers for awhile now eh? muahahahah (evil laugh)

but honestly no fungal on air seems fair to me, phoenix harass worked when it was new but once zergs figured out they just had to make one spore crawler per base and an extra queen we were back to square one.

also i saw some complaining about hydra dps? hydras have amazing dps, less than marines yes but they also out-range marines with the upgrade and lets not forget fungal growth still works on marines.


If only protoss had an anti-air unit which was faster than mutalisks and could kite them, theoretically killing an infinite number with only one of that unit.


lol good luck using that one phoenix vs infinite mutas in a REAL game.. hell, 3 phoenix cant even beat 7 muta unless the muta user is retarded.

My response to your stupid post is this ; Too bad protoss didnt have a unit that spreads pylon power, and heals units for massive health instantly, along with injecting gateways with more warping power... ALL for 150 minerals!

Erm? What are you on? 3 Phoenixes will DESTROY 7 mutas unless the Phoenix user is retarded.
secret - never again
Mojeca
Profile Joined September 2010
United States46 Posts
December 05 2010 04:53 GMT
#2434
On December 05 2010 13:46 Zelniq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:19 MindRush wrote:
Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.

what does that mean ?

cant mineral walk through enemy units anymore. means scouting workers cant run through zealot or other blocks, workers cant escape from an enemy worker surround by right clicking minerals, and maybe most importantly workers for defense cannot gain a good position by mineral walking past the enemy units


I'm curious as to if we will see scouting probes trying to disrupt the pathing of their opponents mining. Or do you think that using probes for a surround on the scout will become more popular because it cant escape.
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
December 05 2010 04:59 GMT
#2435
I'd love to see how the fungal change will play out. I saw guinea pig (I believe?) lose a game because his phoenixes got fungal'd just once, and they all died right there. So I can understand this change. It might also give terran a chance vs zerg lategame. Right now, terran lategame vs zerg is pretty much 100% loss. Zerg can usually already see the whole map with creepspread so drops don't come out of nowhere, and fungals counter them hardcore. With this change terran might have a chance? We'll have to see.

My only concern is that protoss air might become too dominant. (and yes I'm playing protoss atm, just want to see a balanced game)
here i am
Holy.BR
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil67 Posts
December 05 2010 05:02 GMT
#2436
just one word: Corruptors
=D
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 05 2010 05:05 GMT
#2437
On December 05 2010 13:59 wintergt wrote:
I'd love to see how the fungal change will play out. I saw guinea pig (I believe?) lose a game because his phoenixes got fungal'd just once, and they all died right there. So I can understand this change. It might also give terran a chance vs zerg lategame. Right now, terran lategame vs zerg is pretty much 100% loss. Zerg can usually already see the whole map with creepspread so drops don't come out of nowhere, and fungals counter them hardcore. With this change terran might have a chance? We'll have to see.

My only concern is that protoss air might become too dominant. (and yes I'm playing protoss atm, just want to see a balanced game)


think you need to watch GSL or something as terrans have been beating zerg late game.

+ Show Spoiler +
(clide I believe game 1 vs leenok). Jinro 2-0 Moon and Jinro played super passive...
When I think of something else, something will go here
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
December 05 2010 05:08 GMT
#2438
So I sent some stalkers to attack a PF. Then the terran sent some workers to repair it. I then stop-attacked my way closer a few stutters, so that my stalkers would re-allocate their targets and attack the scv's that were in range.

The stalkers kept attacking the PF.

So, what then was the change with scv priority? I still have to manually target the scv's repairing the PF.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
teh_longinator
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada725 Posts
December 05 2010 05:10 GMT
#2439
Okay, so Protoss is gonna get QUICKER Phoenxies, and Zerg is gonna get USELESS Infestors. This should be fun.

Also, ZvZ is gonna be pretty lame tbh.
numLoCK
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1416 Posts
December 05 2010 05:10 GMT
#2440
On December 05 2010 13:46 Zelniq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:19 MindRush wrote:
Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.

what does that mean ?

cant mineral walk through enemy units anymore. means scouting workers cant run through zealot or other blocks, workers cant escape from an enemy worker surround by right clicking minerals, and maybe most importantly workers for defense cannot gain a good position by mineral walking past the enemy units

This makes me sad, it was such a fun thing to have
And I don't see why they chose to remove it. Not like people were abusing it.
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