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On December 05 2010 09:33 pure.Wasted wrote:
Want a Protoss's feedback on this... my impression of Observer issues was that the issue was never the cost, but rather finding the time to squeeze them in between the much-needed first Immo, and the whole slew of Colossus you'll be pumping out after that. Sure, you'll find time for one, but eventually it'll die and you'll need a replacement.
Does 25 gas reduction really change anything?
That's what I thought too, but if you've been following the GSL you'll have seen that Protoss has been doing fairly well since they've been getting out of the "colossus trap." Relying on colossi as staple units was death to Protoss strategy, it was too easily countered with vikings or corruptors. Colossi are still useful, but relying on them was a lethal crutch.
Lately we've seen a lot more stargate play, incorporating voids into a stalker army, phoenix harass / scouting, and good force fields to get zealots up against kiting marauders. 25/75 observers are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper, and will give toss much better intel, which is something really invaluable.
Even without this patch, I've been getting really excited about the Ro8!!
+ Show Spoiler +Choya-fOu, oGsMC, and HongUnPrime all playing well and in the running for a victory. I'm all behind oGsMC, though! (and Jinro, of course)
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On December 05 2010 09:58 Lonyo wrote:
I don't get why they made such "major" changes rather than trying to just tweak things.
It seems like they don't like the way the game is going in many ways at the moment, and want to fix that rather than balance the game broadly around what we have at the moment.
Because it's a test realm. And so they can afford to make sweeping changes and have the option to cut back if needed. I'd say it's true that it indicates that there's a lot they don't like about the way the game is played. If they honestly feel this then the best way is to mass changes on a test realm and filter out the bad ones, rather than test one by one over months and potentially several GSLs where people's careers are affected.
Honestly however few of the changes overlap a great deal, apart from the phoenix-FG things.
FG reaction took me by surprise - I never ever saw it used against air in PvZ in my personal games or in MLG/GSL. Could change with the phoenix buff I guess. I've seen it a lot for stopping terran mass-drop style though. It will certainly be interesting to see it play out.
Thoroughly disappointed that there's no test realm for the koreans. Although Idra and Jinro (and to an extent Ret) have shown that foreigners are perfectly capable of being amongst the best, it's still clear to me that korea has the best environment in which to excel at SC and has the most innovative and high level players - and therefore should be the main focus of major balance tests.
Oh well, let's see how serious they are about their comment on expanding this to other regions.
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Is it just me, or are the players better on the PTR?
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On December 05 2010 10:18 kuroshiro wrote:
Although Idra and Jinro (and to an extent Ret) have shown that foreigners are perfectly capable of being amongst the best, it's still clear to me that korea has the best environment in which to excel at SC and has the most innovative and high level players - and therefore should be the main focus of major balance tests.
Have you seen how good Jinro has become since moving to Korea? He plays like a Korean!
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On December 05 2010 10:19 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Is it just me, or are the players better on the PTR?
i would imagine the casual players have no idea there even is a ptr lols
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how about this changes that are surely needed
Zerg
- Drone:
a drone cancelling a building will return with percentage of that particular building's health when it was cancelled (no more infinite drone cancel/rebuild assimilator)
Terran
- Orbital Command
the animation for scanner sweep ability is now in the color of the player that used the ability instead of gold color for everybody (makes it more relevant for TvT spectators which player scans where)
Protoss
- Sentry
the forcefield model now reflects the color of the player that used the ability (makes it more relevant for PvP spectators which player cast a certain force field)
These are not taken from anywhere, these are my suggestions. The first one is reasonable, the last 2 do not affect gameplay whatsoever, just improve spectating.
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My favorite part of this thread is the zergs complaining about how to stop mutas in ZvZ with no fungal growth.
guess you get to see how it feels to try and chase mutas around with stalkers for awhile now eh? muahahahah (evil laugh)
but honestly no fungal on air seems fair to me, phoenix harass worked when it was new but once zergs figured out they just had to make one spore crawler per base and an extra queen we were back to square one.
also i saw some complaining about hydra dps? hydras have amazing dps, less than marines yes but they also out-range marines with the upgrade and lets not forget fungal growth still works on marines.
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On December 05 2010 10:21 lowercase wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 10:18 kuroshiro wrote:
Although Idra and Jinro (and to an extent Ret) have shown that foreigners are perfectly capable of being amongst the best, it's still clear to me that korea has the best environment in which to excel at SC and has the most innovative and high level players - and therefore should be the main focus of major balance tests.
Have you seen how good Jinro has become since moving to Korea? He plays like a Korean!
Lol, I have, he's freakin awesome now and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Moving to korea and the OGS-liquid house has provided the environment to become ridiculously better than he used to be, thanks to constant practice and team-mate discussion. Surely the patch changes should be tested in this type of environment first and foremost?
Off-topic about him playing like a korean - I was thinking the other day that all the foreigners in korea have a really similar `macro' oriented style, even Jinro with the anti-macro race is making it work! It's to be expected I guess since they must all practice with each other a lot, but it's kinda interesting anyway. So even I though I'd say he's as good as many koreans he still doesn't exactly play like one 
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Does anyone know if this patch resets ladder points? Would make sense since they're introducing a new league.
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I get following message if I want to start the PTR.exe
"SC2 Public Test server is not available right now. Please check http://www.battle.net/sc2/game/ptr/ for more information."
help plz =)
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On December 05 2010 10:32 ReasoN- wrote:I get following message if I want to start the PTR.exe "SC2 Public Test server is not available right now. Please check http://www.battle.net/sc2/game/ptr/ for more information." help plz =)
It's only NA
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On December 05 2010 09:28 EximoSua2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 08:36 Darhaja wrote:
Terran has thors, marines, missile turrets, HSM (from the raven and PDD), +1 vikings beat +1 mutas. HSM. Did you just list HSM as a legitmate answer to anything? I lol'd. Come on man.
Yeah it is a legit answer to mutas.. Watch QXC vs Idra MLG DC.. HSM is fucking incredible against mutas, know what your talking about before you speak.
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On December 05 2010 10:31 ejozl wrote:
Does anyone know if this patch resets ladder points? Would make sense since they're introducing a new league.
it doesn't make sense to reset all rankings and stats
just introduce the new league and let people promote in there
the same thing as in chess, the GrandMaster class is too varied
good GrandMasters (world top20) are way better than weaker GrandMasters, so they have been thinking for some time to introduce a new title which would be greater than GrandMaster
the same thing is with diamond in SC2
some diamond players are so weak, while some diamonds are practically unbeatable
EDIT : answered the wrong person, corrected now
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On December 05 2010 09:28 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 09:26 Grond wrote:On December 05 2010 09:13 yamato77 wrote:
Yes, Fungal growth was great for denying the harass, but did you ever consider that it was perhaps too good at it? Blizzard may have. This is probably the case. Shutting down harass by leaving just 1 unit at each expo is pretty strong. Yeah but now it leaves zerg with only going Muta which is retarded. Forces muta every game zvt now otherwise terran drop ships will just dominate a zerg.
Zerg has many fast units plus Nydus. They will still be able to defend against harass, they just won't have a huge advantage in that area.
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Not sure if this has been posted, but there is now a "Save all replays option"
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On December 05 2010 10:35 pewzzri wrote:It's only NA
Thank you. Sorry I didn't know that. Just arrived from the EPS Germany Finals, and just read "Patch is out" Didn't noticed that its just for NA.
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guess you get to see how it feels to try and chase mutas around with stalkers for awhile now eh? muahahahah (evil laugh)
Because all zergs are going to... race switch to toss? Or do you mean that unit we have that is kind of like a stalker but has no blink and can only move fast for defending.
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On December 05 2010 10:07 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 09:57 pezit wrote:On December 05 2010 05:40 Dente wrote:On December 05 2010 05:38 FrankWalls wrote:
protoss are FORCED to either build observers or build a forge and then cannons, while a terran player already has the means to scan from the OC and isnt forced to build missile turrets Send 1 DT. *scan*. Send the second DT. Oh shit... Terran player: build one turret at the entrance of your base, safe! Protoss player: build cannons spread out all over the base because banshees can enter from every single direction. See the difference there? Then add to that the scan if you want to push out, the fact that DT's is a semi all-in with it's terrible tech path, while the banshee transitions smoth as silk to viking or medivac or raven or a motherf'ing BC if you're feeling like a boss. Banshees can also kite, they escape easier when spotted.... I can keep going on why these units are so far apart it's not even funny. Sorry for going OT i might get banned or whatever but i'm so tired of this comparison, it's just so unfair to protoss to tell them to "try new things" while being completely ignorant of their problems. Cause it's not like Dark Templar can be carried in Warp Prisms, or warped-in with them, amirite? I do agree DTs are awkwardly positioned in the tech tree, but 'entering the base' isn't really any different.
DT's and warp prisms... that's a lategame composition that won't be seen until you'll be on at least 3 bases and having a raven by then isn't really that big of a sacrifice. So yes the 'entering the base' is very different. And so are all the other points i made. Even if getting DT's were as easy as getting banshees i'd rather have a banshee 100% of the time cause they're better in almost every single way, if anyone feels any different i'd question their sanity (hi painuser).
Ontopic: As a protoss player but also mainly a spectator i feel that the FG change might make ZvZ's really stale. I see a lot of zergs here share that concern but i guess we'll have to see on the test realm if this is true in practice.
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On December 05 2010 10:38 unaliased wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted, but there is now a "Save all replays option"
Heck yes! Thanks for the info.
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United States703 Posts
Thank you Blizzard. I'm extremely pleased with these patches. A step in the right direction.
Chat options are pretty good too.
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EPT
