not sure if this is the right place to put this but I was just wondering what people thought of Jason Lee's commentaries last night, i thought he did amazingly well, he has such a pleasant voice and quite a bit of knowledge aswell as not just being a sheep, he seemed to give his own personal flavour as opposed to just copying a style.
There was a few awkwerd moments in the casts but i chalk that up to poor co-casters, not like Idra and jorgens aren't knowledgable or interesting people they just bring awkwerdness and low energy.
so what did you guys think of Jason, was he trying too hard didn't know enough I'd love to hear.
Poll: How was Jason Lee's casting
He was great with some shaky moments (764)
60%
didn't feel like he new what he was doing, but had a great voice (202)
16%
did not like him at all (140)
11%
would have been legendary with a better co-casters (80)
6%
lacked some excitement and knowledge but overall alright (80)
6%
1266 total votes
Your vote: How was Jason Lee's casting
(Vote): He was great with some shaky moments (Vote): would have been legendary with a better co-casters (Vote): lacked some excitement and knowledge but overall alright (Vote): didn't feel like he new what he was doing, but had a great voice (Vote): did not like him at all
Edit: I just thought of this, artosis' interviews are so painful, while jasons are smooth informative and awesome, what would you guys think of jason being the interviewer?
For a replacement on short notice doing SC2 for the first time, he was way better than I expected. Exceeded my expectations and worked well with Idra asking him questions.
He was actually amazing to me, because there were points where he clearly showed you knew very little about the game and had not played it much (salvage among others), but he still did a decent job casting. what is his background? I feel like if he had anywhere near the play time of an artotis or tasteless he would be a way better caster than them, espically if he was alongside someone with great game knowledge like an idra day9 or another pro/ex pro
I think he has a good voice and it seems many agree with me, but the fact that he obviously knew very little and always asked very generic questions was too distracting. Personally his brand of professionalism is bland and insincere, and when he hypes up moments or emphasizes decisions you know aren't important, all the drama built up by his voice evaporates into cringing.
However I think he could be a very good caster if he just knew something about the game.
He got much better as the day went on, I'm watching the 3rd series he did atm and hes noticeably better than he was first series. idrA did a decent job as well, clearly very knowledgeable. The second co-caster is iffy though. He isn't talking nearly as much as he should and it's dragging both down.
Overall, it's acceptable. Hes said a few things that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the game but I can live with that as hes just a sub.
I found his voice highly irritating, so it was hard to listen to. He also seemed to highlight unimportant information and transitioned many of his sentences with non-sense phrases.
I got used to it and it wasn't so bad that the commentaries ruined anything, but I definitely did not like him at all. The fact that IdrA was there to provide the knowledge was helpful, but IdrA, surprisingly enough, seems to really lack some knowledge of the non-Zerg races. I almost face palmed when he said "Wow, that's a really fast second gas" during the very typical gate-gas-core-gas build. Fortunately, there were a ton of Zerg matches.
Either way, the duo was certainly better than nothing. With IdrA being a noob caster and the other guy obviously not very experienced in SC2, I guess I would have to say they did alright.
He was quite good, but I got to hand it to IdrA, he was surprisingly awesome. Its so nice to hear a person who has incredible knowledge of the game and at the same time isn't afraid of letting his opinions out. It was a very good duo and with some training (which isnt going to happen) they could be great.
I think he was particularly good with Idra. He stood for the energy and excitement, and Idra for the de-facto in depth knowledge. With other casters I think his lack of game knowledge really stood out though.
Jason Lee is an incredible play-by-play co-caster, but I felt he got really loud when some tense moments came out, which sort of made the cast feel uncomfortable next to Idra's more calm manner.
I can't stand that fake sensationalist caster voice that so many people do. But that's my only beef with him. He didn't overstep his knowledge and did fine with Idra.
Actually, the one thing I don't like about him is his voice. What I thought was really good though is that he seemed really focused and always seemed to have a clear direction in mind which is sometimes lacking for Tasteless who can get very chaotic and often tries to fill gaps with meaningless phrases. His lack of knowledge is not necessarily bad either as long as his co-caster can provide that and it might even be an upside because he'd ask questions someone not too familiar with the game himself would ask as well. This was also one of the things I really liked about lilsusie/Tasteless casting GomClassic1.
Jason Lee was very good. Even though he has very limited knowledge of the game he made it work by asking Idra or Jorgen what they see going on strategy wise.
On October 21 2010 08:48 BrTarolg wrote: Just out of interest - i missed it so where can i re-watch the cast?
just go to gomtv.net and watch the most recent VODS, if you don't have season ticket, just watch the first sets of some of the games, probably the ones with Idra would be best
Back in the Classic I thought Jason Lee was terrible, just bad. In the GSL I felt he did a fantastic job, it was a great pair with Idra, awesome job by both of them, I could not stay up to watch the second guy.
Everyone prefers different kind of casts, but if the majority wants "professional" casting Jason and Artosis would probably be a very good pair. Artosis as the expert commentator and Jason as play-by-play and interviewer. I think he did a really good job, sure he isn't that knowledgeable but he managed the situation very well. Especially the interviews, they were 10/10.
On October 21 2010 08:47 Onlinejaguar wrote: Jason Lee was very good. Even though he has very limited knowledge of the game he made it work by asking Idra or Jorgen what they see going on strategy wise.
A hundred times this. A good caster does not need to understand 100% of the game, he is there to hype up and provide the tone to let viewers who aren't so knowledgeable of the game get into it. He provides the professionalism as well as the unbiased PoV. For in-game knowledge, he refers to the expert by his side, which Idra did really well in providing tactical analysis as well as possible strategy forecast from a Progamer PoV. Jorgen lacks the interest factor and his voice needs to be more confident/lively to show the passion/interest that Idra displays.
To top it off, he is capable of translating Korean (not too sure how good he is, but he seems competent in conversational Korean), that reduces some seconds off translating and possibly lets GomTV has more advertising time in the future. (should there be any foreign interest)
In my personal opinion, I think Jason+Idra did better than Tastosis, I didn't cringe at jokes and mute the sound even once throughout their casting. Not that I think Tastosis did bad, but I think Jason Lee will be a better choice in the long run.
You know what i loved about him? He really feels like a professional. I remember someone a few weeks back complaining about how the casters werent professional and how we needed "Dedicated casters" not "players who are casters". Although i didnt agree with that fellow, boy was i astonished by the level of professional casting done by this Jason. Mind you, im not talking about in-game analysis. Its just everything he says between the games, how he presents his self, the way his voice goes louder or lower depending on what he's saying and he knows when to enunciate or what have you. I dunno, really really really really, i swear i cant say this enough,,REALLY liked this alot. But, ofcourse, ingame knowledge is low.
Edit: i can't believe there is no post about the whole idra awkwardness thing. If i missed it, links please. The whole super villain thing.
On October 21 2010 08:56 PandaPolice wrote: In my personal opinion, I think Jason+Idra did better than Tastosis, I didn't cringe at jokes and mute the sound even once throughout their casting. Not that I think Tastosis did bad, but I think Jason Lee will be a better choice in the long run.
I think what makes you cringe or mute the stream, is what keeps me coming back.
I got used to it and it wasn't so bad that the commentaries ruined anything, but I definitely did not like him at all. The fact that IdrA was there to provide the knowledge was helpful, but IdrA, surprisingly enough, seems to really lack some knowledge of the non-Zerg races. I almost face palmed when he said "Wow, that's a really fast second gas" during the very typical gate-gas-core-gas build. Fortunately, there were a ton of Zerg matches.
Typical in early beta and release, but honestly, a lot of newer builds are getting second gas later because there's really no reed for the amount you get if you throw assimilator down right after core. Greg was right in pointing this out, because it's usually indicative of heavy gas tech plays, like dt's or double phoenix. Otherwise it's not really needed.
Gas after core was standard for a while, and still might be in lower levels of play, but it isn't among pros, from what I've seen.
On October 21 2010 08:42 StarBrift wrote: I can't stand that fake sensationalist caster voice that so many people do. But that's my only beef with him. He didn't overstep his knowledge and did fine with Idra.
funny, but that's exactly what i love about the Korean casters. i was half asleep at 4am waiting for Lyn's games but Jason Lee kept me interested in the other games. He reminded me a lot of a great baseball radio commentator. Also keep in mind that they were going off of the Korean Observer and were completely reactive to this. people say youtube casters do it all the time with BW tourney VODs, but he's doing it live to a huge audience for a major tournament. he's totally pro.
Tasteless has lost the fire he had for SC2, his sloppy casting is the second worst part of the GSL. (The first would be the scrub matches they had on Day 2 and Day 3).
I made a very comprehensive post earlier today on the GOM forums detailing the reasons why Jason Lee exceeds Tasteless and Artosis as individual casters. I also present my case for the improvement of the english cast, what Tastosis can realistically do to improve, as well as providing positive reinforcement for what they've currently been able to achieve.
There's just something about the way he talks that bothers me. I guess it's his voice but it feels unfair to criticize something he can't change. Either way I think he did (is doing) a pretty good job filling in for Tastosis.
Overall pretty good, but definitely a few blunders in there, e.g. not knowing about bunker salvage and insisting the player destroyed his own bunkers.
He worked well with Idra because Idra wasn't afraid to correct him and point out things, his game knowledge hurt him a lot more when he was casting with Jorgen because Jorgan wasn't always willing to step in when Jason was out of his depth.
There were a ton of times I was like "MINIMAP OVER THERE. LOOK. THING. ARGH. And they finally look, and I have no idea what I missed, other than a drop getting repelled (but how much damage did it do!?) or Legalmind losing ANOTHER phoenix to sloppy play (i saw the shrapnel) and the casters saying "oh that didnt really do much damage the stalkers repelled the mutas"
mutter mutter.
But overall, they were pretty good. Especially idra+Jason!
I really liked Jason's voice and his commentary overall. He may not be the best when it comes to analyzing, but he gives the commentary a good flow and would do a lot better with better cocasters.
On October 21 2010 09:13 sylverfyre wrote: There were a ton of times I was like "MINIMAP OVER THERE. LOOK. THING. ARGH. And they finally look, and I have no idea what I missed, other than a drop getting repelled (but how much damage did it do!?) or Legalmind losing ANOTHER phoenix to sloppy play (i saw the shrapnel) and the casters saying "oh that didnt really do much damage the stalkers repelled the mutas"
mutter mutter.
But overall, they were pretty good. Especially idra+Jason!
you realize they were going off the korean comentators camera right?, I don't think jason has enough experience as to know what to watch, but that is why
He doesn't know jack about SC2 and that makes him look really bad. As for being prof or voice he did great but that doesn't matter, what matters is understanding the game. He also took a big shot at IdrA which kind of seemed out of place although it was funny.
At one point in one of the last games he was just screaming for like 45sec+ and it was really awkward.
Overall sorry but unless he actually learns the game and knows what is happening then I can't say he should cast SC2.
IdrA on the other hand was actually super interesting and made so many good points, although he wasn't exciting and more logical/analytical sort of like Artosis but even more so. Same for the other guy. They are good at analyzing but not good for entertaining.
Jason Lee and Idra had a great dynamic because Jason did the excitement and Idra did the analysis. Jorgen and Jason I thought was not as great as Jason and Idra.
My favorite moment of the night was when Jason was talking about the "bad boy" of e-sports that everybody loves to hate, and Idra had a banana grin on, but didn't say anything. So hilarious.
On October 21 2010 09:10 KingRajesh wrote: Fire Tasteless, Hire David Lee.
Tasteless has lost the fire he had for SC2, his sloppy casting is the second worst part of the GSL. (The first would be the scrub matches they had on Day 2 and Day 3).
Tasteless may be sloppy but at least he knows what is going on. The audience for SC2 is mainly younger people so a lot of his slipups and weak points are tolerable or overlooked. Plus Artosis and him make a stronger whole than the parts which is really fun and interesting.
It might be a good idea to make Tasteless try by saying "we might hire this guy" but even if they are about the same the combo with Artosis makes them that much better.
He's a great caster, despite his game knowledge, so Idra balanced him out very nicely. The other guy on the other hand was just awful, mumbling all the time and barely even talking most of the time.
Tastosis are great because they play off each other's comments, whereas GrackLee had very clear cut roles. I guess it's up to personal preference which you prefer, but I personally love the antics that Tastosis bring to the table.
On October 21 2010 09:10 KingRajesh wrote: Fire Tasteless, Hire David Lee.
Tasteless has lost the fire he had for SC2, his sloppy casting is the second worst part of the GSL. (The first would be the scrub matches they had on Day 2 and Day 3).
Tasteless may be sloppy but at least he knows what is going on. The audience for SC2 is mainly younger people so a lot of his slipups and weak points are tolerable or overlooked. Plus Artosis and him make a stronger whole than the parts which is really fun and interesting.
It might be a good idea to make Tasteless try by saying "we might hire this guy" but even if they are about the same the combo with Artosis makes them that much better.
There are good reasons for Tastosis to stay together, and it all has to do with the achievement of long-term solid casting. Look for my link higher up on the page, you'll find answers to your doubts about his abilities there.
butter on the bread for the last interview where check was like 'wuhhh?' and jason whipped out his own korean translation to show up the actual translator LOL
@sylverfyre, note that they weren't actually controling the cast, they were watching the korean commenators control the camera and commentating based on what they were shown.
I think the biggest thing they need to improve is the use of the production tab. so many times they were like 'I wonder what they're going for now, I mean they have a starport, but it could mean anything what do you think greg?' AND THERE'S A FUCKING BANSHEE ALMOST MADE IN THE PRODUCTION TAB AND THE LAIR IS ONLY HALF DONE OH GOD
They missed so many opportunities to build tension and make the cast more exciting for the viewer. Also idra, while concise, was kind of lost if a zerg wasn't in the match, and if they were he kind of commentated everything from the zerg's point of view. Constantly praising good play by the zerg and when the terran did something pretty classy just making an odd exhalation, wimper or '... oh!' sort of noise.
I really don't think it was as great as a lot of people are making it out to be, but I have to give them credit for a) being sick ass for a first time and b) having one of the coolest caster dynamics I've seen- the vociferous enthusiastic guy who knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and the reserved, technical powerhouse who can answer pretty much every question in like three words or less and have it make sense. They'd make a great pair for casting to a new audience with a bit of practice I think, but for the veteran they leave something to be desired.
if he gets into starcraft2 a bit more and has somebody with a great understanding of the game next to him (like IdrA) he'll be one bad ass sc2 commentator.
apart from the missing insight of the game you can really tell he's a professional caster imho
On October 21 2010 08:40 setzer wrote: Jason Lee is an incredible play-by-play co-caster, but I felt he got really loud when some tense moments came out, which sort of made the cast feel uncomfortable next to Idra's more calm manner.
He got REALLY loud and screamed in a match, what happened? A probe harass!
Another funny moment was the whole thing about the "destroyed bunker", that really was salvaged. He started asking questions about why the player would destroy his bunker. JJ asked if he really did that and not just salvaged it, sounding very unsure about the whole thing.
Ok for everyone here that is complaining about Lee's lack of SC2 knowledge. Let me explain to all of you how professional casting works. Their is the play by play commentator, and the color commentator. The play by play commentator hits you with what is happening, he doesn't necessarily need to be all that knowledgeable.Know the basics, and explain what is happening with hype. Now the color commentator is the one who goes into great detail about the "small things" I guess you could say. Here are some examples UFC-Michael Goldberg (play by play) Joe Rogan (color) NHL- (hockey night in canada at least) Jim Hughson (play by play) Ron MacLean (color) NFL- Play-by-play announcers
* Keith Jackson (1970) * Frank Gifford (1971–1985) * Al Michaels (1986–2005) * Gary Bender (#2, 1987) * Mike Patrick (#2, 1997 and 2005) * Alvaro Martin (Spanish-language on SAP, 1998–2003)
Color commentators
* Howard Cosell (1970–1983) * Don Meredith (1970–1973, 1977–1984) * Fred Williamson (1974 preseason only) * Alex Karras (1974–1976) * Fran Tarkenton (1979–1982; Tarkenton usually replaced Cosell on Thursday night games) * O. J. Simpson (1983–1985; Simpson would replace Cosell on Thursday night games during 1983) * Joe Namath (1985) * Frank Gifford (1986–1997) * Dan Dierdorf (1987–1998) * Lynn Swann (#2, 1987) * Joe Theismann (#2, 1997 and 2005) * Boomer Esiason (1998–1999) * Dan Fouts (2000–2001) * Dennis Miller (2000–2001) * John Madden (2002–2005) * Paul Maguire (#2, 2005) * Robert Abramowitz (Spanish-language on SAP, 1998–2003) ETC. The list goes on, and I think in every situation listed above, you can agree. The Play by play announcers for the most part have a tenious grasp at best on the game they are casting. The color commentators job is to bring the knowledge.
With that said, I believe Jason Lee did an amazing job all around.
I can't believe people are saying he sounded professional. No professional I know of says "uhh" every third word. Just because his voice was good doesn't mean he was. He had zero game knowledge, transitioned between things poorly and the 'personality' he tried to add felt fake and forced.
But the "uhh" thing was the worst. Nobody doing casting should be doing things like that.
Edit: That said, IdrA was surprisingly good, but I wish he had put a bit more effort into 'commentating' rather than just talking like he normally would. Not to the point of sounding fake, but surely he could have mustered a little enthusiasm for the game his life revolves around. His predictions/criticisms etc added a heap though.
Tastosis' style seems to me that they feed mostly off of their pooled knowledge and experience casting together so as a duo they are better than the sum of their parts.
Jason's strength seems to be the ability to carry a cast on his own and keep the attention of the viewer which was very valuable when paired with less experienced casters, imo the Jason/Greg combo was excellent with the addition of IdrA's uncanny ability to predict how the game will look one minute in.
The main problem with Tastosis in comparison is that Artosis is filling both the roles of the knowledgeable but calm nerd and the excited shoutcaster, while Tasteless is just really trying to control the camera as best as he can, though he has been doing a great job at it lately. Ideally, they should just follow the view of the pro korean cameraman, which the korean caster team uses as well.
I'm not sure he has played sc2 b4 this. You could tell he did not watch gsl1. His Controlling of the "what was going on at that time" was pretty bad imo. Seemed like he missed a lot of stuff, and was kinda focused on whatever was moving around right at that moment. Although I would say he has natural ability and with a lil practice he could be great.
He did however save the show from IdrA's and Jorgen's very slow very nervous quiet voice talking. Jason atleast sounded like a real caster, the other guys were obviously just nerds who knew english.
I'm actually pretty blown away. I've never heard of Jason Lee before so I didn't have any expectations.
He seemed extremely professional and did a great job bringing in Idra with analysis questions. I'm also pretty surprised out of the two sets I've watched so far I haven't really heard him say anything stupid, which is more than I can say for Tasteless lol. TBH I wouldn't be opposed to him replacing tastless, I think he'd work great with Artosis.
The only real criticism I have is he did say "uhh" a bit much, however it didn't really bother me that much for some reason.
I'm actually kind of a Jason Lee fan now, I really hope GSL continues to bring him in to cast.
i have been entertained well for the phases he was casting with idra. but with that other asian guy i closed the stream after like 5 minutes as the entertainment value kinda dropped by a lot
He has an amazing voice for casting but hes really gotta let the other players speak, there are 30 second moments where greg or the other guy really cant budge in.
I got used to it and it wasn't so bad that the commentaries ruined anything, but I definitely did not like him at all. The fact that IdrA was there to provide the knowledge was helpful, but IdrA, surprisingly enough, seems to really lack some knowledge of the non-Zerg races. I almost face palmed when he said "Wow, that's a really fast second gas" during the very typical gate-gas-core-gas build. Fortunately, there were a ton of Zerg matches.
Typical in early beta and release, but honestly, a lot of newer builds are getting second gas later because there's really no reed for the amount you get if you throw assimilator down right after core. Greg was right in pointing this out, because it's usually indicative of heavy gas tech plays, like dt's or double phoenix. Otherwise it's not really needed.
Gas after core was standard for a while, and still might be in lower levels of play, but it isn't among pros, from what I've seen.
It's still standard 3gateRobo play or tech of any kind, not just DTs or double Stargate or anything like that. Delayed gas is more for 3gate or 4gate styles, usually with a lot of Stalkers. Gas after core is by no means dead or non-standard. Perhaps the map choice is the cause for his reaction, but his surprise still seemed quite unwarranted. It wasn't the only time he misunderstood a build, but it was the one that stuck out to me the most.
IdrA was what made able to watch it without any real problems, though. I was quite impressed with him, in general. I just found it surprising that he isn't completely familiar with races he doesn't play. I know it's typical for normal players, but it caught me a bit off guard. I wouldn't be upset to see him co-casting again.
Edit: Again, though, we were fortunate to have so many Zerg for him to comment on because even if he isn't 100% familiar with the ins and outs of the other races, he sure as hell knows where Zerg stands at any given point and certainly understands enemy compositions. The fact that he was able to completely predict everything and give the "ifs" of the clutch moments so naturally is what made his commentating as enjoyable as it was.
Tonight for the afternoon matches we'll have Idra and Jorgen casting the first game, then Jorgen soloing the next two, then back to Idra and Jorgen for the last one. This should make people appreciate the casting dynamic that Jason has as the exciting play-by-play caster!
On October 21 2010 09:38 PhiliBiRD wrote: who is jason lee?
and what was he commentating ? the OP gave very little information.
he's one of the standin commentators replacing artosis and tasteless at the GSL
On October 21 2010 09:39 seiferoth10 wrote: Tonight for the afternoon matches we'll have Idra and Jorgen casting the first game, then Jorgen soloing the next two, then back to Idra and Jorgen for the last one. This should make people appreciate the casting dynamic that Jason has as the exciting play-by-play caster!
wow, really?
that's not going to be cool i think.... jorgen got better in the end but i can't see him going anywhere alone... :/
On October 21 2010 09:33 TheGiftedApe wrote: I'm not sure he has played sc2 b4 this. You could tell he did not watch gsl1. His Controlling of the "what was going on at that time" was pretty bad imo. Seemed like he missed a lot of stuff, and was kinda focused on whatever was moving around right at that moment. Although I would say he has natural ability and with a lil practice he could be great.
He did however save the show from IdrA's and Jorgen's very slow very nervous quiet voice talking. Jason atleast sounded like a real caster, the other guys were obviously just nerds who knew english.
IdrA fighting!!!
the controlling was the Korean observer. you might know him as the guy that tasteless and artosis had to take lessons from because of their GSL 1 obs'ing performance.
He would be great but his lack of knowledge of the game really put me off. But to be fair, Jorgen is a pretty poor co-caster who just sat there most of the time. Jason was a lot more enjoyable when IdrA was co-casting because he could ask him a lot of questions.
I thought he did a great job. I think the most important thing for a caster is a confident social skilled person. I would rather watch commentary by a bronze player with good social skills than someone at the top level with no social skills, (beyond the communication of a keyboard.) I'm not implying that this is all or even a majority of the top players but definitley at least a few.
On October 21 2010 09:39 seiferoth10 wrote: Tonight for the afternoon matches we'll have Idra and Jorgen casting the first game, then Jorgen soloing the next two, then back to Idra and Jorgen for the last one. This should make people appreciate the casting dynamic that Jason has as the exciting play-by-play caster!
wow, really?
that's not going to be cool i think.... jorgen got better in the end but i can't see him going anywhere alone... :/
and when is that "assem" guy going to cast?
The schedule was posted in one of the news posts, but here it is again:
7pm KST(GMT+9), Oct. 20th Match 1 - Greg Fields(IdrA), Jason Lee Match 2 - Greg Fields(IdrA), Jason Lee Match 3 - Jason Lee, Jorgen Johannessen Match 4 - Jason Lee, Jorgen Johannessen Match 5 - Jason Lee, Jorgen Johannessen
1pm KST(GMT+9), Oct. 21st Match 1 - Greg Fields(IdrA), Jorgen Johannessen Match 2 - Jorgen Johannessen Match 3 - Jorgen Johannessen Match 4 - Greg Fields(IdrA), Jorgen Johannessen
7pm KST(GMT+9), Oct. 21st All 5 Matches - Brian Fransioli, Jorgen Johannessen
7pm KST(GMT+9), Oct 22nd All 5 Matches - Brian Fransioli, Jorgen Johannessen
Correct me If i'm wrong but isn't Jason Lee a World of Warcraft commentator? Thinking about it, I can see how commenting a World of Warcraft match would make you an excellent Play by Play guy.
On October 21 2010 08:35 zonic wrote: this man was horrible. he had no idea of any strategies, kept saying um and it was annoying as a motherf.
I don't really think he tried to do too much analysis of the strategies, which I thought was great. He did a really good job of asking Idra what he thought, rather then trying to talk about the strategy and making himself look like an idiot like tasteless does all the time.
I hope 70% of you are kidding. I did not like him AT ALL! I actually muted the GOM player, and slowly lost interest in watching the matches. It is boring to watch GSL with out casters, but severely rage inducing to listen to Jason Lee.
Jason Lee did a good job despite his lack of sc2 knowledge and I like the fact that there is no dead air when he commentating. The combo with idra was really good, Lee for play by play and idra for the dead on analysis aspect. All they need is a screamer and they will be perfect.
Where's the "has a voice like a cheese grater in my ear" option? I found his voice annoying as hell, I could forgive him for not knowing jack about the game if his voice wasn't so awful to listen to.
On October 21 2010 09:10 KingRajesh wrote: Fire Tasteless, Hire David Lee.
Tasteless has lost the fire he had for SC2, his sloppy casting is the second worst part of the GSL. (The first would be the scrub matches they had on Day 2 and Day 3).
Tasteless may be sloppy but at least he knows what is going on. The audience for SC2 is mainly younger people so a lot of his slipups and weak points are tolerable or overlooked. Plus Artosis and him make a stronger whole than the parts which is really fun and interesting.
It might be a good idea to make Tasteless try by saying "we might hire this guy" but even if they are about the same the combo with Artosis makes them that much better.
There are good reasons for Tastosis to stay together, and it all has to do with the achievement of long-term solid casting. Look for my link higher up on the page, you'll find answers to your doubts about his abilities there.
I'm not gonna read all that sorry. All I know is Tastosis are awesome and need some minor help while Jason Lee is a good voice but not right for SC2. I think he could do great for sports or other things but not really for SC2. Besides just not knowing whats going on his voice type doesn't fit. I personally stopped watching HDstarcraft when he started doing that stupid casting voice. That might just be personal opinion though.
All in all the target demographic is younger people who aren't professionals for the most part. All the incrowd knowledge Tastosis has is far more valuable than anything Jason Lee can bring either. They were the gamers, they are the gamers, its their lives, they love it. They know the players, they know the scene, and they just need some relatively minor adjustments.
On October 21 2010 09:31 Arkless wrote: There is the play by play commentator, and the color commentator.
My favorite combo for GSL will now be Jason Lee + Artosis. I'm sorry Tasteless, but you'll work if you didn't keep cue-ing for the IU voice & maps to come out; and look in Artosis in the eye for like n-thousand times.
On October 21 2010 09:44 Crt wrote: I would rather have a professional caster like Jason Lee commentating the games than a semi-professional knowledgeable gamer.
Professionalism is everything.
To you, the minority. Most people playing will want the latter. Tastosis also have the abiltiy to easily compete in professionalism if they were given the right motivation.\\
I was actually cringing with how bad the casts were last night esp after IdrA left. Its not to say Jason Lee isn't a good caster, but he isn't a good caster for SC2. I frapsed it and wnet to bed, and FF'd through any of the talking parts it got so bad rofl. Maybe if he got trained for quite a bit and actually learned the game it could work but the voice should go imo.
Jason Lee tore it up. I especially liked it when the translator would be having trouble in the interviews, and then Jason jumps in and koreans it up. Jorgen did well too, just needs to speak up and not trail off into a mumble.
After watching the live stream, I decided to flip to some of the VODs with the casting archon Tastosis.
And really, I think all the comments that people are making about personal preference are so right. Idra and Jason Lee (didn't watch the Jorgen commentator) were pairing each other very well - and I really actually felt like I was watching a real sports event. And if we want to start legitimizing SC2 as an e-sport so that outsiders will start watching it, I feel like this is a very important part of the casters role. This is also my greatest critcisim of Tastosis - the fact that the casting is extremely unprofessional.
Further, Jason Lee really knew where he was going as he was casting. There were no long moments where the casters look at each other awkwardly trying to figure out things to say when the game doesn't start right away. Tastosis always ends up making it work, finding something to talk about, but you never saw that hestitation with Jason.
BUT
Jasidra misses the terrible puns, the laughable attempts at humour (all of which only make the whole thing that much funnier IMO =P), and the sheer depth of knowledge that both Tasteless and Artosis bring to the table. If Tastosis can bring more of that professionalism into their dyamic duo, then their casting will go to the next level for sure.
And yes, Jason's "uhhh"ing was super distracting >_<
There are things that both pairs can learn from each other.
Oh man, and Artosis should totally take a page out of Jason's book and use follow up questions. Jason didn't let Check get away with the one word answer "Terran" he made him explain.
On October 21 2010 09:46 Funkmastajam wrote: I hope 70% of you are kidding. I did not like him AT ALL! I actually muted the GOM player, and slowly lost interest in watching the matches. It is boring to watch GSL with out casters, but severely rage inducing to listen to Jason Lee.
This. Exactly my thoughts.
Sure he might have professionalism but he's dull, boring, humorless and knows almost nothing about the game. This coupled with the lack of connection going on with his co-casters made the stream unwatchable.
I actually woke up happy knowing that Jason Lee wouldn't be casting today.
I'm genuinely surprised with Jason Lee. I knew idra was going to do well because obviously he's one of the best zergs out there right now and at the very least he has the knowledge to do well. Jason Lee I didn't have a very high expectation for so I'm pleasantly surprised at how good he was.
On October 21 2010 09:46 Funkmastajam wrote: I hope 70% of you are kidding. I did not like him AT ALL! I actually muted the GOM player, and slowly lost interest in watching the matches. It is boring to watch GSL with out casters, but severely rage inducing to listen to Jason Lee.
This. Exactly my thoughts.
Sure he might have professionalism but he's dull, boring, humorless and knows almost nothing about the game. This coupled with the lack of connection going on with his co-casters made the stream unwatchable.
I actually woke up happy knowing that Jason Lee wouldn't be casting today.
Uh... you'd rather have Jorgen casting by himself?
On October 21 2010 10:11 DoubleLariat wrote: Oh man, and Artosis should totally take a page out of Jason's book and use follow up questions. Jason didn't let Check get away with the one word answer "Terran" he made him explain.
Jason: This guy has the "commentators" voice. It might be a good thing or a bad thing. He can sure get the excitement up, the game on scrap station which went back and forth, was pretty much single handedly casted by him, and he really did drum up the excitement. But getting shouting about a probe attacking a morphing spawning pool is not really very exciting. His interviews were really good especially when you got blunt one word answers, he would dig in further and ask for more detail. And he did quite well with Idra, let Idra do the analysis and didnt really interject too much. The only other problems I saw were the excited for nothing bit and radio-esque commentary(stating the obvious,when we can see whats going on screen). But over all quite a good performance. Maybe given some time with the game,he could be better.(this is a close game...food difference at 100-32)
Idra: Really good analysis, as expected, and did the role he was supposed to fill. The technical side of commentary. The only problems were lack of emotion( couldn't help thinking about what InControl said in the sotg podcast lol!). When something awesome was happening he would be like ..oh he's going to lose his whole army, really bad. But then at his level of technical expertise it would seem obvious and boring. But clear speech,and good analysis, exactly what was expected of him.
Over all the Grack-Lee combo did a decent job, as they sort of compensated for each others flaws.
Xeqtr: His voice tone was sort of monotonic, and plain did not speak most of the time. And when he did he gave some insightful comments. but out of the 4 games I watched, it was mostly lee trying to single handedly carrying the match. Really needs to speak a bit more and maybe change up the voice tone a bit.Apparently he was good in a few matches from what I read in the forum,but he was mostly quiet when I was watching.
On October 21 2010 10:21 Slardarxt wrote: Missed out yesterday, so I'm looking forward to seeing how IdrA and these guys cast together. None of the poll options denotes excellence.
Today is definitely NOT the day to witness what the fill in commentators can do. If anything, look up the vods on GOM's website from yesterday of the first two matches (the one with jooktojung and the other one with bless) for a taste of the best fill in pair we've seen so far. Maybe Assem will be better? I dunno, but Jason/Idra are the best so far.
On October 21 2010 08:40 setzer wrote: Jason Lee is an incredible play-by-play co-caster, but I felt he got really loud when some tense moments came out, which sort of made the cast feel uncomfortable next to Idra's more calm manner.
I thought this was what made him really good. He gets a lot more into it than Tasteless and Artosis, and it really makes you get excited watching as well. You can hear in the background how the Korean commentators get really crazy when exciting moments in the game occur. Jason Lee was almost like that, which made it really fun for me.
On October 21 2010 10:21 Slardarxt wrote: Missed out yesterday, so I'm looking forward to seeing how IdrA and these guys cast together. None of the poll options denotes excellence.
Today is definitely NOT the day to witness what the fill in commentators can do. If anything, look up the vods on GOM's website from yesterday of the first two matches (the one with jooktojung and the other one with bless) for a taste of the best fill in pair we've seen so far. Maybe Assem will be better? I dunno, but Jason/Idra are the best so far.
I agree...unless Jorgen received major pointers, it's going to be pretty brutal tonight. Hopefully Assem can bring it together, but Jorgen solo casting IdrA's match is going to be weird.
Only thing was when Idra wasn't there the cast wasn't as good. Hes a good professional play by play guy, but because of that he really defers to the pros for insight. So when Idra didn't cast the last few games, Jason Lee didn't have as good or as in depth insight to fall back on.
But it was Good. Might want to keep around as a 3rd string caster. Seeing as Tasteless seems like his voice gives out after excessive casting.
I didn't like him at all. I know his role here was color, but his nasal voice taking a full minute to talk about the death of the scouting SCV was just terrible.
I'd like to see them keep him around as the interviewer and the guy who rambles off the pre/post game stuff because he's definately more professional and transitions way better than Tastosis.
On October 21 2010 10:26 dartoo wrote: Idra: Really good analysis, as expected, and did the role he was supposed to fill. The technical side of commentary. The only problems were lack of emotion( couldn't help thinking about what InControl said in the sotg podcast lol!). When something awesome was happening he would be like ..oh he's going to lose his whole army, really bad. But then at his level of technical expertise it would seem obvious and boring. But clear speech,and good analysis, exactly what was expected of him.
I thought the fact that IdrA seems to be one of the few that didn't learn how to commentate by watching videos of Brian Blessed to be his best feature. Yelling isn't a general purpose emotion, there's nothing wrong with talking in a level calm voice.
He is seriously THE BEST caster. Sure his game analysis isn't as strong as artosis' or day but his voice, energy and commentating ability is fucking amazing
honestly him + idra was on par or better than tastosis. he's so damn good at simply calling the play and filling space with words. Really showed that he was a professional sports caster, he was excellent. His pronunciation and word speed was great
I think he did a really good job, slipping into what I call the "DJwheat" role where you're an experienced caster and have all the experience that goes with that, so you're really good at inflection, expression, and so forth. They also don't have as much game knowledge as the people they cast with, but they recognize that and are able to still ask questions to their co-casters that provoke interesting responses.
First time I seen him and him casting... I thought at the beginning he knew absolutely nothing about SC2 and picked up small basic things along the way to use in his commentary (like harassment etcc.. Maybe he was there to tell the viewers what was happening at that very moment and never needed to explain why, which should of been handled by the other caster
The bunker statement just showed he knows nothing about the dynamics of Starcraft 2 and having to listen to someone fill in the gaps with play-by-play and uninformed comments is like nails on a chalkboard.
Jason Lee has an awesome voice, perfect for sports in general. If he learned more about the game he would be great. I'd be scared if I was tastosis, dangerous competition right there.
I remember Jason Lee casted a night of matches for one of the SC1 GOM seasons because Tasteless was unable to, and I remember it being absolutely awful, completely unbearable to watch. So when I recognized him from that I was like "oh no..."
HOWEVER, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how well he did this time around. It was MUCH improved from the last time, and he did a really good job considering the circumstances. I want to commend him on a job well done and I am actually looking forward to hearing him cast again tonight.
Also, he should do the interviews without a translator. He seemed to know exactly what the player was saying regarding how the game was played and its much more comfortable with english than the translators. Honestly don't know why the translators were there during his interviews.
On October 21 2010 12:46 Sulfur wrote: Does Jason Lee remind anyone else of the guy in the movie Better Off Dead that learned to speak English by only listening to Howard Cosell?
I enjoyed the cast, but couldn't get the thought out of my head.
Exactly lol.
EDIT: I haven't even see that movie but I totally get what you mean nonetheless.
On October 21 2010 13:02 Durantula wrote: Also, he should do the interviews without a translator. He seemed to know exactly what the player was saying regarding how the game was played and its much more comfortable with english than the translators. Honestly don't know why the translators were there during his interviews.
My guess is just not everyone is great at translating between languages, and I'm sure there's a lot of Starcraft terms that get lost in translation that only a regular translator would know how to convert.
Coming in with no experience casting SC2 I'm really impressed with him. Obviously there's room for improvement, but w/e, he's doing extremely well given that he's just standing in.
He's pretty good, I like listening to him, but that could possibly be that I listen to sports casts all the time too. He casts like a sports caster, and it's a change of pace from artosis and tasteless
Outshone idra who often added like 3-5 word sentences then went silent, leaving Jason to pick up the slack. Was a fan of his SC1 casting and am a fan of his SC2 casting!
I wasn't expecting much cause I had never heard of Jason Lee. Pleasantly surprised!
His energy is great and he transitions well when there is downtime. Honestly, I think he'd complement Tastetosis really well as an announcer. He has the more professional tone and Tasteless isn't as good at coming up with the transitions and filler as Jason is.
edit: he'd also serve really well to help new viewers as Tastetosis could explain inside jokes or jargon to him. I could see him serving as the casual viewers representative.
Jason is definitely quite a bit more polished at filling in transitions and silences; very good at prompting his co-casters for answers as well I think - like, none of those moments we see often w/ Tastosis where they just repeat eachother for 10-15s waiting for something (like game starting) to happen. I've been pretty damn impressed really. I think some of his casting feeling more professional probably comes from him being able to actually understand the Korean casters in the background and sync up, etc.
Yeah he's very professional and I like it and yes there are some rough spots on sc2 specifically but compared to the start of tastosis it's really not that big of a deal. It feels a little bit more like a sports caster and if he teamed up with a great analyst/color commentator it could be really good. I prefer my tastosis ofc but this guy is good
Also, the post match interviews have been so much better. He is actually asking relevant questions. I'd love to see Tastosis + Jason Lee. I think working with him would also allow them to grow as casters.
I thought he had a great voice and always had something to say, sadly his co-casters were not on his level I felt, jason lee+artosis would be an awesome combo
Jason + idrA is the best commentary combo I have heard. They have very different ways of commentating/analyzing thing, but they come together so perfect.
<3 Tastosis but listening to them several hours per day, five days a week, gets a bit tedious. If Blizzard/Gom plan to continue having up to nine games per day, especially during bo64, it would be really nice to get another pair of commentators to add some diversity.
The man's a pro, no doubt about it. The combination of he and IdrA was excellent and I'd really love to see more from the two. It's so refreshing not dealing with the awkward Tasteless pauses
Haven't seen all the games yet that they did but I really like the Idra / Jason duo. Jason asked Idra decent questions and Idra's insight in the game's strategy was amazing.
Everyone keeps saying "Jason Lee + artosis" or "Jason Lee + Tasteless" but realistically those would both be an epic fail.
Let's be honest, Jason doesn't have the fun personality needed to fit with Tasteless or Artosis. The age gap, and lack of humor would really not flow well at all.
His professionalism is great and all but when you sit here for 10 Starcraft matches a day and can't even crack much of a smile most of the time (his humor is odd) it gets a little tedious.
On October 21 2010 18:49 Zeles wrote: His professionalism is great and all but when you sit here for 10 Starcraft matches a day and can't even crack much of a smile most of the time (his humor is odd) it gets a little tedious.
And 100 double robo all the way jokes is not odd? Or how tasteless needs to mention hes in EG and is a pro gamer atleast once every cast...
I liked Jason + idra alot more and would also like to see Jason + artosis/idra + artosis.
Remember it was Jason his first time casting an sc2 event... so it would only get better from here.
i liked the fact that jason knew what he didn't know and had no problem asking for advice. give him a few lessons in sc2 and he'll be a great play to play caster.
On October 21 2010 18:49 Zeles wrote: His professionalism is great and all but when you sit here for 10 Starcraft matches a day and can't even crack much of a smile most of the time (his humor is odd) it gets a little tedious.
And 100 double robo all the way jokes is not odd? Or how tasteless needs to mention hes in EG and is a pro gamer atleast once every cast...
I liked Jason + idra alot more and would also like to see Jason + artosis/idra + artosis.
Remember it was Jason his first time casting an sc2 event... so it would only get better from here.
They're just genuinely happy and enthusiastic and you can definitely feel it.
Jason Lee hasn't been around the Starcraft scene so he doesn't get the same excitement and so it doesn't transfer over to the listeners that well.
Also, Idra stated clearly today he doesn't want to cast but wouldn't mind jumping in occasionally.
Also separating Tasteless from Artosis would be an epic fail.
Jason Lee sounds really professional with a really nice voice. Idra on the other hand...i'll best honest, but he doesn't sound good at all. he's a nice zerg player, but saying on the air that you are a zerg player and really don't know much about the other racial timings...that's bad when you're supposed to be a professional starcraft gamer. and he doesn't sound enthusiastic at all. he should stick to playing the game.
Tried to post this in the thread that was bitching about him.
I think he is doing a great job considering he seems to have been just thrown into doing this. He has the voice talent, the ability, just an unfamiliarity with the game gets some angry nerds like yourself up in arms. He'll learn what to look for if he practices. How many times have Tastosis ran out of things to say, focused on stupid autamotons, signs on buildings, mentioned the absolutely most obvious things, and called stalkers dragoon, hellions vultures, etc... Pobody's Nerfect.
Jason Lee is an amazing caster, he is like a an Asian version of DjWheat. People blame him because he isn't a top starcraft player and because his knowledge of the game is not that good but he has a co caster for strategic insight. Jason is here to help his co casters ( Assem and Jorgen are kinda meh but Idra was great btw ) and to make the game more accessible to newbies and he is doing that really well, he has also a good voice which a huge + for a caster.
Like DjWheat he is a true professional and he can cast all kind of games.
On October 21 2010 20:13 Aberu wrote: Tried to post this in the thread that was bitching about him.
Same here; here's my copy-pasta:
Not fair! I criticize that fat lisping guy from MLG(not sure of name) and I get a warning, but here's a whole thread hating on this fairly-okay stand-in caster who's trying to do his best, and it's apparently ok! t_t edit: <3
Seriously though, Tastosis said that we should give these guys some slack and that we should go easy on them. As such, I think Jason Lee does very well with the limited knowledge he has about the game; it's just that without someone like IdrA next to him, he really has to push things himself and obviously he isn't able to do that. It's not fair to criticize him for lack of support.
I think he is horrible. With Idra it was kinda alright because Idra knows whats up (although he is a far better player then commentator obviously). But right now I have to mute and watch the game in silence because both of them have no idea whats up (missing a bc rush? Come on.). It is very sad because so far the gsl2 was great but these games have been ruined (it also shows how important commentary is). I'm just glad that artosis & tasteless will be back soon. I have decided not to buy GSL3 tickets because of this bad commentary. I really need to know what gsl is gonna do if somebody is ill again/has to leave/play etc. and if they stick with unprofessional casters they sure as hell won't get my money. Because it is way less interesting with somebody who can only repeat what pros are saying/or simply stating whats happening ("tank is coming OUUT"). Anyway, bad decission by GSL, big name != succesful cast.
You guys are seriously trying way too hard to be nice. He is a bad SC2 caster and that's that, the only things he can call is what we already see on the screen, he often mistakes it, and has 0 insight. Is that what constitutes as "great job"? It isn't.
THe problem I have with jason Lee, is he doesn't defer to his co caster enough. I just heard him say that a raven took out a medivac. He obviously has never played SC2. He needs to play SC2 before his next casts and stop looking like an idiot.
On October 21 2010 19:00 SKtheAnathema wrote: i liked the fact that jason knew what he didn't know and had no problem asking for advice. give him a few lessons in sc2 and he'll be a great play to play caster.
The thing is, he asks for advice, but he doesnt put any effort towards learning it. He could have played a few games in preperation for his casting, and learned the units, but its obvious he didn't prepare anything at all.
Does Jason Lee understands Korean? Because it was funny how he was shaking his head during NaDa interview and then almost forgot to let the translator guy to translate the last part :D
'Forgot you english guys dont speak korean XD' I think hes doing a good job considering his lack of knowledge in sc2, he was let down by the 'knowledge' commentator yesterday and is doing a bit better today.
On October 21 2010 20:53 nOia.pod wrote: Does Jason Lee understands Korean? Because it was funny how he was shaking his head during NaDa interview and then almost forgot to let the translator guy to translate the last part :D
I found him more enjoyable to listen to than Tasteless and Artosis. Sure he made some mistakes calling what was happening but he was professional and got excited at the right times and about the right things.
Also the Korean observers are miles better, I hope they continue using them.
On October 21 2010 20:51 Rflcrx wrote: I think he is horrible. With Idra it was kinda alright because Idra knows whats up (although he is a far better player then commentator obviously). But right now I have to mute and watch the game in silence because both of them have no idea whats up (missing a bc rush? Come on.). It is very sad because so far the gsl2 was great but these games have been ruined (it also shows how important commentary is). I'm just glad that artosis & tasteless will be back soon. I have decided not to buy GSL3 tickets because of this bad commentary. I really need to know what gsl is gonna do if somebody is ill again/has to leave/play etc. and if they stick with unprofessional casters they sure as hell won't get my money. Because it is way less interesting with somebody who can only repeat what pros are saying/or simply stating whats happening ("tank is coming OUUT"). Anyway, bad decission by GSL, big name != succesful cast.
You are not going to buy tickets for GSL3, because a couple of days of the round of 64 (IF blizzcon is going on) might not be casted by Tastosis? That sounds a little extreme. How much money did you lose from these matches let's find out.
If you are a resubscriber it was 15 dollars. How many matches are they casting...?
22 matches out of!... 63, so you wasted what... 5 dollars? Boohoo. You still get to see the matches in high quality, watch them whenever you want. Sounds like someone is overreacting.
Mostly just having the wrong facts like implying that last GSL Season was one year ago. Really like his voice and that they're focusing 100% on what happens and not what htey had for breakfast this morning.
Jason+IdrA was great, I really liked how Idra knew alot, so he came with great depth, while jason is such a great talker, and made it so much fun to watch
Jason+Jorgen was kinda meh, jorgen didn't really say that much.
Jason+Assem was again good, Assem was talking alot, and seemed to know a decent amount, not as much as idra or artosis, but it sure was entertaining.
If only Jason knew a little more he would've been awesome ^^
On October 21 2010 21:06 Aberu wrote: You are not going to buy tickets for GSL3, because a couple of days of the round of 64 (IF blizzcon is going on) might not be casted by Tastosis? That sounds a little extreme.
That is because you missread. If I pay money I want to see some quality. The games don't need to be casted by tastosis, but they need to be casted in a bearable way, so that I actually somewhat enjoy watching them. If the casters are so bad because they have no idea what so ever and I need to mute the stream I really don't want to pay money for it. Jason Lee is the vuvuzela of starcraft 2.
In addition I consider the RO64 as being important/interesting, because good players also get kicked out early but will reappear at a later time (gsl3/4/5). So ruining 3-4 days of it is a big deal, especially if you pay for it.
I think Jason Lee will be a great caster once he picks up some more info about the game, good voice and gets really excited about the big battles and so on.
I think one (or both) of Tastosis should have declined the invitation to Blizzcon so that this wouldn't happen. It seems that Blizzcon will have a rotating team of five casters (one of which is Day9 anyway), so Tastosis was needed more for the GSL.
Jason Lee is terrible. All he did is say what is on the screen and never went into speculation, or went into any deep analysis with his co-host. He has not looked at the unit/production/income tab once. (the Korean ob rotates between the tabs often enough) Absolutely NO mention of upgrades at all. (Artosis repeatedly tells us the importance of things like ling/bane speed and banshee cloak) He missed the Fusion Core during Idra's match, but he gets a free pass while Tastosis gets a lot of flak for missing it? Also, LOL at him believing that a terran player destroyed his own bunker. Worst moment was the mothership rush game, where Jason and Jorgen are talking nonsense while the last viking was desperately trying to come out of the starport.
Jason+Idra had the best chemistry, but that's because Idra carried the analysis by himself. Jorgen... I'm glad GomTV realized he sucked and removed him. He was originally going to be on for 14 matches in a row, and that would've been a nightmare. Assem's voice is more pleasing to the ear, but he's not much of an improvement either. I'm wondering why GomTV didn't ask someone from TL to cover...
Some people don't like Tastosis joking around, but I'd rather hear that then dead air. They actually don't joke around as often as some complainers make it out to be.
I don't think people understand how low quality is Tasteless's commentating is and how Artosis is carrying him. Jason Lee is a huge improvement and it would be a dream for him to cast with Artosis imho.
Jason Lee sure knows how to cast and show excitement, although a small lack of basic-sc2-knowledge (salvaged bunkers still explode) but this hurts just a bit.
Btw: where is the old translator-guy, i miss him he is so sympatic (even if it seems the new one is faster)
Didnt had any problem with the new duos that teamed up to cover for the absense of tasteless and artosis.
For me the casters are there to help out keeping the game dynamics and pace for the viewers, the rest should be ourselves to assist and notice what match events / details we enjoyed the most. I was never a big fan of very deep strategic insights while assisting to a match because to be properly done it requires the game to be stopped, rewinded, evaluated on several prespectives (kinda like what Day[9] does on his videos wich i enjoy quite a lot).
What i enjoy is the live event happening on that moment and that the casters follow the match while keeping the pace and a balanced ammoutn of excitement.
So for me the casting has been just fine with a bit of overreacting ocasionally but nothing unbearable so its all good
People keep saying that he didnt know what he was talking about and such, but the fact that he was still able to cast with practically no knowledge of the game just shows how great of a commentator he is and how much he could improve. When he was casting with idra he didnt need to know much about the game because idras analysis was so good. I for one would love to see some more jason and idra because I absolutely loved it and as his game knowledge increases it will only get better. Btw the other 2 co-casters besides idra were pretty bleh in comparison and he wasnt as able to rely on them as much for his lack of sc2 knowledge therefore they didnt go near as well. I think another thing people are overlooking is how much better he made the interviews.
On October 21 2010 22:44 kasumimi wrote: I don't think people understand how low quality is Tasteless's commentating is and how Artosis is carrying him. Jason Lee is a huge improvement and it would be a dream for him to cast with Artosis imho.
That's just an absurdly uninformed thing to say. Artosis doesn't carry Tasteless. Tasteless is the color commentator and observer.
Please look up what that entails. I'm not going to discuss Jason Lee because this is a thread made by people who like him.
Jason Lee has a great voice, but says "um" WAY TOO OFTEN. It drives me crazy. How can the other guy just sit there like a dead fish half the time though? He obviously knows SCII better than Jason, and he has some good points to make, but he is boring as shit.
Did anyone notice that there wasn't a single mention of the battlecruiser rush in Idra's game until the actual battlecruiser was out? Neither commentator mentioned anything about the hidden fusion core, or said anything the entire time the BC was producing. Unreal.
There has been going a childish trend around here lately to bash casters and picking every word they say apart. Some people here cannot be pleased and this is rather disapointing considering how good we have it now as viewers. I've been here for many years when there were no youtube vods, no watchable livestream and first and foremost no english casting whatsofuckingever. What all these casters are doing for you, payed or not, is just outstanding and I can only congratulate them for all the effort they put into their job.
I can only thank GOM for putting in their time and effort in providing great guys like Lee so you little spoiled brats can enjoy your english commentary regardless.
Lee, you've been doing a great job so far and thank you very much for doing this. Despite the lack of game knowledge you brought your casting expirience to the table and handled yourself very well. Thank you for doing this!
And IdrA, I think you suprised us all. Very good insight. All the best of luck in your future games!
I think Jason Lee+Artosis would be the best duo for the GSL. Jason is a way better caster than any I've seen so far. All he need is a little more sc2 knowledge.
On October 21 2010 23:40 Jayson X wrote: There has been going a childish trend around here lately to bash casters and picking every word they say apart. Some people here cannot be pleased and this is rather disapointing considering how good we have it now as viewers. I've been here for many years when there were no youtube vods, no watchable livestream and first and foremost no english casting whatsofuckingever. What all these casters are doing for you, payed or not, is just outstanding and I can only congratulate them for all the effort they put into their job.
I can only thank GOM for putting in their time and effort in providing great guys like Lee so you little spoiled brats can enjoy your english commentary regardless.
Lee, you've been doing a great job so far and thank you very much for doing this. Despite the lack of game knowledge you brought your casting expirience to the table and handled yourself very well. Thank you for doing this!
And IdrA, I think you suprised us all. Very good insight. All the best of luck in your future games!
They are running a business to make money. There is a demand for SCII live action and VODs in english with knowledgable commentary, and GOMTV has provided services to meet that demand.
The casters are being paid, its not like they are doing some kind of community service. If the viewers don't like them, then GOMTV should listen and react accordingly. After all, they are out to make money, and bad ratings = less money.
On October 21 2010 23:40 Jayson X wrote:and foremost no english casting whatsofuckingever.
I would prefer korean commentary over jason anytime. While I don't understand a word, at least I know due to the korean commentators voice when a critical moment arrives (kinda like dogs understand humans). While Jason also raises his voice in an attempt to create some sort of atmosphere, he has no clue about the game, so he often announce an "all in" attack while actually no much happend/is going to happen. The koreans at that point know whats up and don't make a fuzz about it.
i dont think idras that much of a co-caster, he had to be basically asked about the situation which is fine by me, cause hes a player id say jason lee and tasteless would do well together
On October 21 2010 23:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote: i dont think idras that much of a co-caster, he had to be basically asked about the situation which is fine by me, cause hes a player id say jason lee and tasteless would do well together
He's really professional, I thought he did a good job. Jorgen would be great too but his english isn't as clear. Idra was awesome. Professional and always spot on with his analysis.
I'd rather have in-depth knowledge than a smooth voice anytime. Artosis actually KNOWS his shit as a progamer, so I don't understand why everyone is crapping on him right now, IMO he's much much better than Jason. For me, knowledge >>>> voice.
But of course, someone who has both is our legendary Day9. More casts plz =D
On October 21 2010 22:44 kasumimi wrote: I don't think people understand how low quality is Tasteless's commentating is and how Artosis is carrying him. Jason Lee is a huge improvement and it would be a dream for him to cast with Artosis imho.
That's just an absurdly uninformed thing to say. Artosis doesn't carry Tasteless. Tasteless is the color commentator and observer.
Please look up what that entails.
If you remove Artosis from the picture all that remains is cheese being referred to as "great strategy" and probe micro as "high level play" and some half-assed jokes. Ohh and him saying "Clyyyyyde" while he misses drops/battles and key tech structures.
Tasteless is the reason I'm into starcraft btw, seeing him abuse his early fame to get a free ride thinking he's fooling everyone is so disheartening.
On October 21 2010 23:40 Jayson X wrote: There has been going a childish trend around here lately to bash casters and picking every word they say apart. Some people here cannot be pleased and this is rather disapointing considering how good we have it now as viewers. I've been here for many years when there were no youtube vods, no watchable livestream and first and foremost no english casting whatsofuckingever. What all these casters are doing for you, payed or not, is just outstanding and I can only congratulate them for all the effort they put into their job.
I can only thank GOM for putting in their time and effort in providing great guys like Lee so you little spoiled brats can enjoy your english commentary regardless.
Lee, you've been doing a great job so far and thank you very much for doing this. Despite the lack of game knowledge you brought your casting expirience to the table and handled yourself very well. Thank you for doing this!
And IdrA, I think you suprised us all. Very good insight. All the best of luck in your future games!
They are running a business to make money. There is a demand for SCII live action and VODs in english with knowledgable commentary, and GOMTV has provided services to meet that demand.
The casters are being paid, its not like they are doing some kind of community service. If the viewers don't like them, then GOMTV should listen and react accordingly. After all, they are out to make money, and bad ratings = less money.
Show me ONE caster in korea who could even do half the job Lee does. Im sure so far the english stream costs them more money than they make out of it seeing as all commercials are for koreans.
For someone completely new to the game, Jason Lee's been doing exceptional casting. Pairing him with someone who has intricate knowledge about the game (i.e. Idra) makes a really good match with his enthusiasm. I still enjoy the Tasteless + Artosis combo more because their casting feels so practiced & give-and-take at a pro level, but Jason has a lot of potential :D
I feel like Jason Lee's performance was very dependent upon who he was cocasting with. I thought he was great with IdrA, but less interesting with either of the others. And TBH, Assem was just painfully awkward to listen to, and it really ruined the whole duo.
IdrA + Jason Lee = awesome duo, IMO. If Jason were to continue doing this, he'd quickly learn what more about game facts and make up for what I perceive as his only major weakness as a caster.
EDIT: My dream duo has now become Day[9] and Jason Lee. xD Would be super interesting to listen to. MAKE IT HAPPEN!
On October 22 2010 00:53 Niick wrote: Can we just have two streams.
Tastosis for people whom have played SC2, and Jason Lee + a wingman for people who havent / NASCAR fans?
lolwow. Troll much? Jason Lee did a great job. Sure he doesn't have the SC2 knowledge of Tastosis, but at least he doesn't blatantly voice his bias for any foreigner over the air. I mean, yeah, I definitely root for TLO and IdrA, but it's really just unprofessional while casting to clearly favor one contestant over the other (yes, even when you're casting SlayerSBoxeR).
What was most impressive to me is how Jason was able to keep the flow of the cast going, even tho he doesn't know much about the players or the game....and yet, watch the early matches of GSL 2 where Tastosis have numerous awkward silences and openly admit they don't have anything to say about some of the players because the tournament is new.
I love listening to Artosis and Tasteless. They are really entertaining and Artosis in particular is a fount of SC2 knowledge. However, after watching Jason Lee and IdrA cast.....I feel like whatever Jason Lee lacks in game knowledge he more than makes up for in professionalism, and pu t him with a knowledgeable cocaster and it's hardly noticable.
I think he started our really well but after a while, every game feels very samey now. It feels like someone playing someone else, even when people such as NaDa or MVP are playing. Objectively speaking he is a very good caster but I am not glued to my computer screen the same way as wenn Tastosis is casting.
Idra was awesome, the others were kidda so and so. One guy seemed to lack even basic knowledge of Starcraft2? I mean at one time he asked the co-caster why the player didn't just build the addon instead of building swapping it, and the list goes on with him misinterpretating moves..
(Vote): Idra (Vote): Jason Lee (Vote): Artosis (Vote): Tasteless
Wow, just wow! Those results are astonishing to say the last.
I cannot believe that a guy who knows nothing of the game would top that list. A guy who only tells us what we see happening in front of our very eyes; With no depth or elaboration what so ever.
On October 21 2010 23:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote: i dont think idras that much of a co-caster, he had to be basically asked about the situation which is fine by me, cause hes a player id say jason lee and tasteless would do well together
(Vote): Idra (Vote): Jason Lee (Vote): Artosis (Vote): Tasteless
Wow, just wow! Those results are astonishing to say the last.
I cannot believe that a guy who knows nothing of the game would top that list. A guy who only tells us what we see happening in front of our very eyes; With no depth or elaboration what so ever.
No I take it back... I'm just plain shocked.
this is a good job jason thread, im more amazed artosis is second
The guy really impressed me. Super professional and a great voice for casting. I don't want to reiterate pretty much everything everyone else is saying...but paired with a very knowledgeable co-caster they could make a fantastic duo.
On October 22 2010 02:56 IndieFinch wrote: The guy really impressed me. Super professional and a great voice for casting. I don't want to reiterate pretty much everything everyone else is saying...but paired with a very knowledgeable co-caster they could make a fantastic duo.
On October 21 2010 08:57 MarwanBaki wrote: Edit: i can't believe there is no post about the whole idra awkwardness thing. If i missed it, links please. The whole super villain thing.
On October 21 2010 08:57 MarwanBaki wrote: Edit: i can't believe there is no post about the whole idra awkwardness thing. If i missed it, links please. The whole super villain thing.
I feel that tasteless in particular has been getting worse and worse as a caster, and thats coming from someone who loved him when starcraft had no real casters and he helped DJ wheat make sc casting into what it is.
Apart from that, the rest of the casters are stepping further and further away from casting and closer and closer to a day9 daily in the way that they cast. I dont want a lesson in starcraft, I want to watch professionals play with good analysis and strong hype // excitement. A good caster makes what would be just a great replay into an intense adrenaline pumping moment between two superstars.
Jason lee stepped it back to casting and brought in great professionalism of the quality that we would see from a real sports caster. Once he gains more starcraft knowledge and experience casting (knowing the speeds that things die so he doesnt have his little heart attack moments etc) he will easily be the best caster.
On a side note, i'd probably just die from happiness if DjWheat and Jason Lee casted together. Both are amazing at engaging their casting partner and building hype and excitement, just need a little more knowledge in their casting.
On October 21 2010 08:57 MarwanBaki wrote: Edit: i can't believe there is no post about the whole idra awkwardness thing. If i missed it, links please. The whole super villain thing.
He did a good job on short notice. His lack of game knowledge made most of the casting so-so, but he made the best of what he had, and that made him really great in combination with IdrA... nice dynamic play calling, combined with good questions to prompt IdrA into insightful analysis.
On October 22 2010 09:58 Frunkis wrote: I really don't understand how people can like Jason Lee. Are people really that impressed with phony broadcaster voice? I just don't get it.
i'm more impressed with his professionalism. he doesn't make mistakes, doesn't step over boundaries like most amateur casters and his voice is just good because it's enjoyable
Props to Jason for filling in so professionally on a game he knows nothing about.
However, he is not a good SC2 caster. We don't need to be told that there are banelings on the screen! We can see them!
He reminds me of the recent WCG casting, which was essentially "Ok Jaedong has built some zerglings, now he's going to go do some stuff with the zerglings, maybe he'll attack with the zerglings, maybe he'll not attack with the zerglings, maybe he'll move the zerglings around."
A thought comes to mind...does anyone know of a place where we can voice our support of Mr. Jason lee? Does any korean speaking teamliquider feel like posting this thread on a GOM tv forum?
EDIT: I feel stupid, they have an English forum XD
On October 22 2010 10:17 MannerKiss wrote: A thought comes to mind...does anyone know of a place where we can voice our support of Mr. Jason lee? Does any korean speaking teamliquider feel like posting this thread on a GOM tv forum?
EDIT: I feel stupid, they have an English forum XD
Dude, his regular gig at Arirang is way better than this, he's just doing Artless a favor unfortunately. =/
On October 22 2010 10:17 MannerKiss wrote: A thought comes to mind...does anyone know of a place where we can voice our support of Mr. Jason lee? Does any korean speaking teamliquider feel like posting this thread on a GOM tv forum?
EDIT: I feel stupid, they have an English forum XD
Dude, his regular gig at Arirang is way better than this, he's just doing Artless a favor unfortunately. =/
Very sad - I didnt know that - but I would bet he'd have a better chance of seeing a post on GOM TV than he would on a random TL thread even if its just to say thank you!
Jason Lee good caster? Ha, ha, ha. He's fucking boring. All he does is talk about what's on screen.
"We have a pylon going up."
"Gateway making"
"Zerglings chasing after the probe"
You get the point. Camera control is terrible. He misses tons of things and the things he does see, he doesn't comment on. Like in a PvZ where a guy when warp prism first out of his robo. That's a pretty big deal and Jason Lee stared at it and said nothing. Just kept on talking about useless nonsense.
This guy really makes me want Artosis and Tasteless back.
On October 22 2010 10:53 prochobo wrote: Jason Lee good caster? Ha, ha, ha. He's fucking boring. All he does is talk about what's on screen.
"We have a pylon going up."
"Gateway making"
"Zerglings chasing after the probe"
You get the point. Camera control is terrible. He misses tons of things and the things he does see, he doesn't comment on. Like in a PvZ where a guy when warp prism first out of his robo. That's a pretty big deal and Jason Lee stared at it and said nothing. Just kept on talking about useless nonsense.
This guy really makes me want Artosis and Tasteless back.
How is that any different than tasteless and artosis? go watch any of their games* and find me ONE game where they dont say "We have a pylon going up" "Gateway making" "Zergling chasing the probe"
On October 22 2010 10:53 prochobo wrote: Jason Lee good caster? Ha, ha, ha. He's fucking boring. All he does is talk about what's on screen.
"We have a pylon going up."
"Gateway making"
"Zerglings chasing after the probe"
You get the point. Camera control is terrible. He misses tons of things and the things he does see, he doesn't comment on. Like in a PvZ where a guy when warp prism first out of his robo. That's a pretty big deal and Jason Lee stared at it and said nothing. Just kept on talking about useless nonsense.
This guy really makes me want Artosis and Tasteless back.
How is that any different than tasteless and artosis? go watch any of their games* and find me ONE game where they dont say "We have a pylon going up" "Gateway making" "Zergling chasing the probe"
The difference between him and Artosis/Tasteless is that he does it for MOST of the game. Tasteless has come a long way since GSL1 and is much less boring. Artosis is a very good caster and actually talks about strategy, what a person might do, the implications of their choice, etc. Jason Lee does none of that and talks about what's on screen nearly the entire game.
On October 22 2010 10:53 prochobo wrote: Jason Lee good caster? Ha, ha, ha. He's fucking boring. All he does is talk about what's on screen.
"We have a pylon going up."
"Gateway making"
"Zerglings chasing after the probe"
You get the point. Camera control is terrible. He misses tons of things and the things he does see, he doesn't comment on. Like in a PvZ where a guy when warp prism first out of his robo. That's a pretty big deal and Jason Lee stared at it and said nothing. Just kept on talking about useless nonsense.
This guy really makes me want Artosis and Tasteless back.
The camera control is actually the Korean OBserver though .
I think he is a good caster, just lack game knowledge, thats why i think his combination with Idra was the best, as Idra can provide the game knowledge and Jason can fill airspace when needed. The other 2 caster was not very knowledgable too so the commentaries was kind of blah.
On October 22 2010 10:53 prochobo wrote: Jason Lee good caster? Ha, ha, ha. He's fucking boring. All he does is talk about what's on screen.
"We have a pylon going up."
"Gateway making"
"Zerglings chasing after the probe"
You get the point. Camera control is terrible. He misses tons of things and the things he does see, he doesn't comment on. Like in a PvZ where a guy when warp prism first out of his robo. That's a pretty big deal and Jason Lee stared at it and said nothing. Just kept on talking about useless nonsense.
This guy really makes me want Artosis and Tasteless back.
I lol'd at the contradiction in this post. I know you probably didn't mean it but the way you expressed it was funny.
Also I thought he worked off the Korean camera which is far superior?
prochobo i again challenge you to find a game where tasteless/artosis dont do exactly the same thing. =/ the whole game.
EDIT: I dont mean to challenge or even say that its a bad thing, its just the nature of video game casting - Jason Lee was no worse than tasteosis about it.
I am very impressed and enjoying his commentary. He is excellent and asking the right questions about things he doesn't know about. Imagine if he tried to pretend that he had an indepth knowledge - it would be so see through that it would be embarrassing.
Basically, he's been asked to fill in on this game he doesn't have deep knowledge on, and he's done a great job keeping it entertaining. He gets my props.
i found him to be really professional when it came to his general casting. what i liked the most of him is how he spoke really confident and how he went in and out of intros and into new camera changes and stuff. thats the only thing i think tasteless and artosis lack (more so tasteless) and wish they could get that kind of timing / professionalism down for transitions so the show has a more cohesive feel to it.
Even tho i wish they were more professional and all that stuff i just said one the things about artosis/tasteless i like the most is how they are not so professional and banter around with lil jokes and what not. I guess im torn between the two XD, other then that lee and idra was a awesome team.
I didn't vote on the poll because I didn't feel like there was one that represented my thoughts exactly, but I like him. Hes got a solid voice, he doesn't need a translator, and he is very professional. The two things I think he is lacking is game knowledge and observer skills(I'm pretty sure the Korean casters are observing for him, if so they need to improve IMO).
On October 22 2010 13:13 ZoDD wrote: i prefer jason lee's enthusiasm and passion over tastless and artosis complementing each other on their handsomeness
I cannot believe people say they feel enthusiasm from him all i hear is stiffness. He is ultra proffesional sounding with no personality or humor.
On October 22 2010 13:13 ZoDD wrote: i prefer jason lee's enthusiasm and passion over tastless and artosis complementing each other on their handsomeness
I cannot believe people say they feel enthusiasm from him all i hear is stiffness. He is ultra proffesional sounding with no personality or humor.
I'm with you man - he's no fun and has no personality. He's a strange guy that's for sure.
On October 22 2010 10:55 MannerKiss wrote: How is that any different than tasteless and artosis? go watch any of their games* and find me ONE game where they dont say "We have a pylon going up" "Gateway making" "Zergling chasing the probe"
I'm pretty sure Tastosis would have mentioned a BC rush sometime around the time the hidden Fusion Core went up, instead of when the damn unit was already flying towards the opponent's base.
If you weren't looking at the screen, and just listened to the commentary, you'd here 5 minutes of blather about proxy barracks and then out of nowhere a Battlecruiser comes out.
When you don't have other things to talk about, fine, describe what's happening on-screen. But your job as a commentator is to point out things that aren't immediately apparent by just glancing at the screen.
I don't want to be terribly critical of him, he's just a temporary replacement so that cuts him a lot of slack.
But saying his performance was on par with Tastosis is ridiculous.
He worked well as background noise. Kind of like the prerecorded commentary in sports games. And just as informative as that.
I think its fun to watch the game with him commentating. For different reasons sometimes... but still, I think he does a good job for not knowing SC2. I mean, its kinna funny when he says "And that Raven takes down the Dropship"... but it doesn't make me rage or anything. Chillout guys.
no one considers e-sports something serious is because of people like you guys. you guys just like to keep the nerds up in their emperor's chair. sure, they can play well, and should be respected as a good gamer, but a nerd making insider jokes or sounding all nerdy as a commentator? i'll always recall artosis saying how they are all nerds and giving him the nerd chills. he says it like he's proud to be a nerd. when did being a 'nerd' be a compliment? it'll never bring esports to a serious level.
on the other hand, jason lee sounds like a professional sports commentator. he lacks knowledge in the game, which can be built upon, but your attitude and personality will not change. tasteless will always sound like a kid in his casting.
come'on, look at what the world is looking for, not only what the sc2 community is looking for. did you notice the korean commentators, the way they dressed and the way they looked. it makes the korean scene so much more professional.
On October 22 2010 17:37 TheImmortal wrote: no one considers e-sports something serious is because of people like you guys. you guys just like to keep the nerds up in their emperor's chair. sure, they can play well, and should be respected as a good gamer, but a nerd making insider jokes or sounding all nerdy as a commentator? i'll always recall artosis saying how they are all nerds and giving him the nerd chills. he says it like he's proud to be a nerd. when did being a 'nerd' be a compliment? it'll never bring esports to a serious level.
on the other hand, jason lee sounds like a professional sports commentator. he lacks knowledge in the game, which can be built upon, but your attitude and personality will not change. tasteless will always sound like a kid in his casting.
come'on, look at what the world is looking for, not only what the sc2 community is looking for. did you notice the korean commentators, the way they dressed and the way they looked. it makes the korean scene so much more professional.
Why is nerd an insult? You are on teamliquid.net. What's wrong with being a nerd?
On October 22 2010 17:37 TheImmortal wrote: no one considers e-sports something serious is because of people like you guys. you guys just like to keep the nerds up in their emperor's chair. sure, they can play well, and should be respected as a good gamer, but a nerd making insider jokes or sounding all nerdy as a commentator? i'll always recall artosis saying how they are all nerds and giving him the nerd chills. he says it like he's proud to be a nerd. when did being a 'nerd' be a compliment? it'll never bring esports to a serious level.
on the other hand, jason lee sounds like a professional sports commentator. he lacks knowledge in the game, which can be built upon, but your attitude and personality will not change. tasteless will always sound like a kid in his casting.
come'on, look at what the world is looking for, not only what the sc2 community is looking for. did you notice the korean commentators, the way they dressed and the way they looked. it makes the korean scene so much more professional.
Why is nerd an insult? You are on teamliquid.net. What's wrong with being a nerd?
the word 'nerd' might not be an insult, but definitely not a compliment. it's too embedded into the society that nerds are people with thick glasses and don't go out and in general don't like people. it's not an insult to be like that, but compliment and something to be proud of? i'd definitely say no.
and thinking being on a forum and differentiating yourself from the real society is exactly the problem, you treat this forum as an insolated and protective place for all the gamers. if you're really serious about the game, shouldn't you look at this issue from where most of the people stand and not where most of where the gamers stand? if you continue to look at this issue from the gamers standpoint, a game will always stay as a game and never progress to something bigger. only when you get the commoners or layman involved will gaming be regarded or something serious.
I have to say, I've had more hilarity in the few days that Jason Lee has been casting than Tastosis in the weeks that I've watched them. So many golden quotes and moments. Gonna especially miss the ease with which he does interviews.
On October 22 2010 10:55 MannerKiss wrote: How is that any different than tasteless and artosis? go watch any of their games* and find me ONE game where they dont say "We have a pylon going up" "Gateway making" "Zergling chasing the probe"
I'm pretty sure Tastosis would have mentioned a BC rush sometime around the time the hidden Fusion Core went up, instead of when the damn unit was already flying towards the opponent's base.
If you weren't looking at the screen, and just listened to the commentary, you'd here 5 minutes of blather about proxy barracks and then out of nowhere a Battlecruiser comes out.
When you don't have other things to talk about, fine, describe what's happening on-screen. But your job as a commentator is to point out things that aren't immediately apparent by just glancing at the screen.
I don't want to be terribly critical of him, he's just a temporary replacement so that cuts him a lot of slack.
But saying his performance was on par with Tastosis is ridiculous.
He worked well as background noise. Kind of like the prerecorded commentary in sports games. And just as informative as that.
Oh god so true especially after the obs clicked on the fusion core and then clicked on it building twice.
On October 22 2010 17:52 TheImmortal wrote: the word 'nerd' might not be an insult, but definitely not a compliment. it's too embedded into the society that nerds are people with thick glasses and don't go out and in general don't like people. it's not an insult to be like that, but compliment and something to be proud of? i'd definitely say no.
Nerds are not "people with thick glasses". Nerds are "people with mainly intellectual pursuits".
That's very much something to be proud of.
if you continue to look at this issue from the gamers standpoint, a game will always stay as a game and never progress to something bigger. only when you get the commoners or layman involved will gaming be regarded or something serious.
Regarded as something serious by whom? People who watch NASCAR and live in trailer parks? Academic underachievers whose sole raison d'etre is chasing tail and killing braincells with intoxicants?
Why should anyone care about what the western slope of the bell curve thinks of our pursuits? We're not some fringe minority. Nerds run the world.
If they were using the Korean obs, I'm actually shocked...
again I only watch 3-4 games, but I found that he would focus on 1 battle to the complete exclusion of any other... which is very odd... at least I would think it would be for any player... I can actually understand this for so a crowd that isn't into sc2..but who would be.
I can't explain the number of times I wanted the obs to just jump over for a few seconds so I could get a feel of what was giong down... it really ruined any mutlipronged attacks and harras. For me at least.
On October 22 2010 17:52 TheImmortal wrote: the word 'nerd' might not be an insult, but definitely not a compliment. it's too embedded into the society that nerds are people with thick glasses and don't go out and in general don't like people. it's not an insult to be like that, but compliment and something to be proud of? i'd definitely say no.
Nerds are not "people with thick glasses". Nerds are "people with mainly intellectual pursuits".
if you continue to look at this issue from the gamers standpoint, a game will always stay as a game and never progress to something bigger. only when you get the commoners or layman involved will gaming be regarded or something serious.
Regarded as something serious by whom? People who watch NASCAR and live in trailer parks? Academic underachievers whose sole raison d'etre is chasing tail and killing braincells with intoxicants?
Why should anyone care about what the western slope of the bell curve thinks of our pursuits? We're not some fringe minority. Nerds run the world.
i copied and pasted this from the oxford dictionary website
nerd (nerd) Line-break: On Off Pronunciation:/nəːd/ (also nurd) noun informal 1) a foolish or contemptible person who lacks social skills or is boringly studious: I was a serious nerd until I discovered girls and cars 2) a single-minded expert in a particular technical field: a computer nerd
His casting is okey though he definitely doesn't know enough about the game to satisfy those of us who want some deeper insight, I definitely prefer tasteosis for that. Jason is definitely superior when it comes to the interviews though.
i copied and pasted this from the oxford dictionary website
nerd (nerd) Line-break: On Off Pronunciation:/nəːd/ (also nurd) noun informal 1) a foolish or contemptible person who lacks social skills or is boringly studious: I was a serious nerd until I discovered girls and cars 2) a single-minded expert in a particular technical field: a computer nerd
which part of that is considered a compliment?
Language changes. Nerd used to be a denigrating term, it's now been embraced as a positive moniker by the recipients.
Being a single-minded expert in a particular technical field is a good thing.
i copied and pasted this from the oxford dictionary website
nerd (nerd) Line-break: On Off Pronunciation:/nəːd/ (also nurd) noun informal 1) a foolish or contemptible person who lacks social skills or is boringly studious: I was a serious nerd until I discovered girls and cars 2) a single-minded expert in a particular technical field: a computer nerd
which part of that is considered a compliment?
Language changes. Nerd used to be a denigrating term, it's now been embraced as a positive moniker by the recipients.
Being a single-minded expert in a particular technical field is a good thing.
it might sound like an encouragement in your eyes, but look at the real society. walk out into the streets, ask them what is their impressions if of a nerd, or what they think of when they hear the word. language constantly changes, but it revolves around the majority of the people, not the minority.
and 'single-minded expert in a particular technical field' is good, but it also means the expert has nothing else apart from that. definitely not liked by the society.
On October 22 2010 13:04 DoA wrote: Jason Lee actually sounds like a real sportscaster, which is cool to hear.
It's tough not to prefer the drone of nerd voices for SC2 casts though...
so ignorant^^ Let me help you:
Jason Lee:
From Busan, South Korea Education Columbia Academy of Radio, Television and Recording Arts (Graduated with honors) Work Experience Arirang TV <Sports Express> Anchor Arirang TV <Peninsula Scope>] Anchor Arirang TV <Quiz Champion/Pops in Seoul/Showbiz Extra> Announcer Arirang TV <Sports Event (Ssireum)/Arirang Sports (Soccer)> Sportscaster Arirang Radio <Riding Home> Disc Jockey To Viewers I'm a big sports person. Every sport, including ice hockey, baseball and wrestling, is a fun challenge for me. I'm glad to be challenging a new genre called e-Sports at Arirang TV. I'm always curious about new things and I give my 110% in everything I do. That's why I'm studying new games everyday before I introduce them to you. I'll show you that sports is sports, wether it's online or offline. Don't forget to leave me a lot of messages on our bulletin board.
On October 22 2010 18:50 kojinshugi wrote: Maybe this is an east vs. west cultural thing.
We're less focused on societal approval and more about individual distinction. Social conformity is frowned upon by a lot of people.
it probably is. i'm not trying to start something here, as i'm also a fan of the game just like you, but cultural and religious differences definitely are the reasons for all the wars and disputes out there.
On October 22 2010 18:50 kojinshugi wrote: Maybe this is an east vs. west cultural thing.
We're less focused on societal approval and more about individual distinction. Social conformity is frowned upon by a lot of people.
it probably is. i'm not trying to start something here, as i'm also a fan of the game just like you, but cultural and religious differences definitely are the reasons for all the wars and disputes out there.
I wasn't trying to start anything either. I've just found that individualism is frowned upon in East Asian cultures, and the whole "nerd pride" thing is a pretty individualistic thing. I'm not trying to say one view is better than the other or that this is something to fight over, just that different societies are different.
My forum handle is "individualism" in Japanese, irony fully intentional
I guess from my point of view a sort of vanilla, mainstream approach to e-sports presentation actually hurts it. The intended demographic will find it off-putting and phony. That doesn't mean it needs to be a complete fringe phenomenon, just that it won't ever be "mainstream" any more than things like skateboarding or chess are. Well, it'll probably be much bigger than chess.
I also don't mean that Tastosis is beyond criticism. Sure, they can improve. But if the criticism is "too much levity and not enough mainstream appeal", then that criticism is fundamentally misguided, in my opinion.
I really can't believe so many people enjoyed his casting and especially his voice. He sounds like an Asian Eugene Levy. His voice was monotonous, excitement seemed obviously feigned (just like a newscaster attempting genuine emotion). I could tolerate all of this if his knowledge of the game was sound, but he really had hardly any idea of what was going on, and combined with his voice I was cringing during the games. In fact, I only watched a few key match where typically I watch them all. I just really can't stand his voice coupled with lack of knowledge.
I will give him a thumbs up for his professionalism, but that couldn't save the terror that was his voice.
THE WORST CASTERS EVER, BRING BACK MY NERDS ARTASTELOSS!!!! In all serious Jason Lee makes me want to drop kick him about 15 times a game, he is worse then that really raspy annoying caster on iCCup.tv
I think Jason has already learned quite alot about the game, I don´t really understand the hate. It´s interesting to have different types of casters IMO.
The casting feels so dull, tastosis might over do the jokes sometimes but atleast its fun to listen to. This guy co casting right now is terrible, he is like a version of idra without the knowledge and is even more monotone.
Holy shit. Jason Lee just asked why wouldn't you go Rax before supply in TvT. Assem just kind of stuttered out that it's not possible with the new patch. Kind of awkward.
On October 22 2010 19:43 Maul wrote: I really can't believe so many people enjoyed his casting and especially his voice. He sounds like an Asian Eugene Levy. His voice was monotonous, excitement seemed obviously feigned (just like a newscaster attempting genuine emotion). I could tolerate all of this if his knowledge of the game was sound, but he really had hardly any idea of what was going on, and combined with his voice I was cringing during the games. In fact, I only watched a few key match where typically I watch them all. I just really can't stand his voice coupled with lack of knowledge.
I will give him a thumbs up for his professionalism, but that couldn't save the terror that was his voice.
100% agree. The only redeeming quality he has is that his knowledge and comments are comically bad. A raven taking out a medivac? Destroying a bunker? Rax before supply? Yeah, I really didn't enjoy it at all and I'll be glad when Tastosis are back.
I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
On October 22 2010 20:45 Ygz wrote: I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
On October 22 2010 20:45 Ygz wrote: I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
On October 22 2010 20:45 Ygz wrote: I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
isn't that supposed to be a good thing?
I was wondering that too, isn't that the point we want to reach eventually, whether it be the more professional, proper caster style or the crazy high-on-life Argentinian football commentator style.
On October 22 2010 20:45 Ygz wrote: I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
isn't that supposed to be a good thing?
Nope. A stereotypical, affected "announcer voice" is not a good thing in an of itself.
Entertaining, well-spoken, and informative are good things.
On October 22 2010 20:45 Ygz wrote: I can't stand him personally. Maybe it's his voice, but it doesn't feel fitting for SC2, if I close my eyes I almost feel like I'm listening to a televised sports game, weird. Artosis/Tasteless, I miss thee!
isn't that supposed to be a good thing?
Maybe for you obviously, but not for me. I'll take Tasteless/Artosis/Day9 etc. over pro sports casting any day. There is no black and white here, more personal taste. I prefer my game casting to have a nice sprinkling of nerdy fun/humour. This generic sports casting persona completely bores the shit out of me.
I'm sure Jason is a great guy, and no doubt casts sports games well, but no, his SC2 casting is not resonating with me.
The people hating on Jason Lee will never be pleased. That's just the kind of people they are. Anything less then perfect is a green light to hate.
Under the circumstances, he exceeded my expectations. He wasn't super versed in SC2 so of course there will be some errors in his calling, I mean no fucking shit. By all means feel free to make some fun out of it and land some criticism, but to be hating on the guy because it's somehow your god given right to receive perfect commentary is fucking ridiculous.
Frankly, I found he asked good questions, made good observations about a game he didn't seem to well versed in and gave time for the other commentator to speak.
Sure he made some errors sometimes, such as asking about barracks before depot, but he also explored the mechanics a little, but not too heavily.
I mean, for your general audience, having to know what a 14 FE versus a 15 FE might be too much, just knowing, hey that seems good time to expand is better.
On October 22 2010 23:02 coko wrote: I mean, for your general audience, having to know what a 14 FE versus a 15 FE might be too much, just knowing, hey that seems good time to expand is better.
I'd disagree with this 100% for the GSL intended audience. May as well get anyone off the street to just comment on what's going on. There-in lies the benefit of the personal experiences and input from a knowledgeable caster.
He did a really poor job following the minimap at times and commenting on tech. Oftentimes I noticed he would scroll over pivotal tech buildings and even select them, but fail to even mention them. "oh and there's battle cruisers out!" Yeah well you looked at the fusion core about five minutes ago! He did do a great play by play however, and his cocasters all did decent jobs as well.
I've been watching the e-sports show on Arirang for a while now (~2 years?), and Jason Lee is part of the casting team in all of them. He casts WC3, SCBW, Sudden Attack and so on. I guess I've gotten used to him and as non-informative filler he fits the job very well.
He's especially hilarious when he's casting FIFA, screaming GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLL like a maniac every time a goal is scored.
I've actually quite enjoyed him. It seems like he is actually enthusiastic about the commentating, even if it's not correct alot of the time. My knowledge of the game isn't great, but I know 'The raven didnt take out the medivac', so to all of you with vast superior knowledge of the game.. why does it matter?
Personally I don't listen to the casters for in-depth tactical discussion or insights into what the players are doing.. I use my own eyes for that. For me, the casters are there to provide some excitement in the background whilst i'm watching the match.. and Jason Lee certainly seems to do that for me.
I think it's much easier to fix a lack of knowledge than a lack of voice. Jason Lee has great potential and I hope he eventually becomes a regular caster.
Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
Yeah, but it's obvious he doesn't even have knowledge of basic foundations of SC2. I don't need him to be an encyclopedia, I need him to know how high-ground advantage works, I need him to know important tech buildings to look out for, etc. Map-awareness is also really important as a caster too, which I wasn't impressed by from him at all. For instance, it was several minutes today before he even looked at the hidden starport in the final Ensnare match, he just mentioned "oh there's a starport in the bottom right of the map." Of coarse I was watching the low quality stream and couldn't see what he was talking about.
Honnestly, I don't like him and I'm impatient for Tastosis's return. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome that Jason Lee try to help like that and he put a lot of effort in it, BUT he really really lack game knowledge and it's often painfull to listen to him (Assem isnt helping that much either). And unlike most people I actually don't like his voice either, I can't explain it but I like tasteless's voice much better (maybe because I discovered starcraft with him). Anyway, it's nice of him to help like that (and the others too).
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
Yeah, but it's obvious he doesn't even have knowledge of basic foundations of SC2. I don't need him to be an encyclopedia, I need him to know how high-ground advantage works, I need him to know important tech buildings to look out for, etc. Map-awareness is also really important as a caster too, which I wasn't impressed by from him at all. For instance, it was several minutes today before he even looked at the hidden starport in the final Ensnare match, he just mentioned "oh there's a starport in the bottom right of the map." Of coarse I was watching the low quality stream and couldn't see what he was talking about.
They are following the korean obs he has no control over going to the starport.
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
He doesn't have to be a SC2 pro-gamer or even a gold/diamond level player. I understand the concept of an announcing role in commentary. But he needs to have the basics down to call the action.
I watch ESPNs coverage of the WSOP and I've never heard Lon McCarren call an ace of hearts the ace of diamonds, or a straight a flush. He's admitted to not being very good at poker, or understand why the players play how they do despite seeing their cards, but he does a great job of simply calling the action accurately and leaves the analysis to Norman Chad.
I understand the guy is just substituting so I'm not happy about being so critical towards him, but I just can't make myself watch any more of the games he casts because it's too distracting from the game.
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
Yeah, but it's obvious he doesn't even have knowledge of basic foundations of SC2. I don't need him to be an encyclopedia, I need him to know how high-ground advantage works, I need him to know important tech buildings to look out for, etc. Map-awareness is also really important as a caster too, which I wasn't impressed by from him at all. For instance, it was several minutes today before he even looked at the hidden starport in the final Ensnare match, he just mentioned "oh there's a starport in the bottom right of the map." Of coarse I was watching the low quality stream and couldn't see what he was talking about.
They are following the korean obs he has no control over going to the starport.
Really? Why would the he not have control over the camera like Tasteless?
Cringe while listening to those commentators. No mention of BC rushes until BC is half way to the enemy's base, "I think he's going to 2 gate rush" while the protoss has 3 in gas.. So many times I've heard them saying one player is playing great and then say the complete opposite when they realise how the battle was actually turning out.
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
Yeah, but it's obvious he doesn't even have knowledge of basic foundations of SC2. I don't need him to be an encyclopedia, I need him to know how high-ground advantage works, I need him to know important tech buildings to look out for, etc. Map-awareness is also really important as a caster too, which I wasn't impressed by from him at all. For instance, it was several minutes today before he even looked at the hidden starport in the final Ensnare match, he just mentioned "oh there's a starport in the bottom right of the map." Of coarse I was watching the low quality stream and couldn't see what he was talking about.
They are following the korean obs he has no control over going to the starport.
Really? Why would the he not have control over the camera like Tasteless?
Obviously because he doesnt know the game well enough and can't do that. Following an obs is better anyway for the casting.
On October 22 2010 23:51 setzer wrote: Some people here seem to think every caster has to be a walking encyclopedia to be effective. Imo, Jason did a great job and really improved from his first cast with Idra to today with Assem. He's just as entertaining as Tasteless, is quite articulate when he speaks and has the flow of the cast go smoothly. You can knock him for not being quite as knowledgeable as other casters, but that is why you pair him with someone like Idra and Assem.
Yeah, but it's obvious he doesn't even have knowledge of basic foundations of SC2. I don't need him to be an encyclopedia, I need him to know how high-ground advantage works, I need him to know important tech buildings to look out for, etc. Map-awareness is also really important as a caster too, which I wasn't impressed by from him at all. For instance, it was several minutes today before he even looked at the hidden starport in the final Ensnare match, he just mentioned "oh there's a starport in the bottom right of the map." Of coarse I was watching the low quality stream and couldn't see what he was talking about.
They are following the korean obs he has no control over going to the starport.
Really? Why would the he not have control over the camera like Tasteless?
Obviously because he doesnt know the game well enough and can't do that. Following an obs is better anyway for the casting.
"Do you think that a barrak before a supply depo TvT is viable?"
About sums up my thoughts.
I mean, ok, learning the game, he can't give deep in depth analysis, but it's be nice if he'd actually.. played a game. People were going on in another threat about he did some research before on the players that tastetosis didn't, but some basic research into the game itself would be good.
He is learning fast. And thank goodness we'll get tastetosis back.
Jason was great again today. His cocaster not so. Very bland, lack of personality kind of guy. Didn't bring anything to the table, unlike Idra. I even forgot his name O.o.
I think Jason is doing a great job. There's very few awkward silences, he nkows what words to emphasize and when it's appropriate and tbh knowing little about SC2 it makes the commentator's job more important and he is asking questions because he doesn't know not just to make conversation. This helps it sound less scripted when he asks about match-ups during the game, or prior to the game, etc.
Jason actually was fooled by haluzinated collossi today. Even worse, he didn't get it when the enemy got it..with full map vision/production tab/unit tab.
Good voice or no good voice: total lack of knowledge -> failcast.
I got really excited because I thought everyone meant that actor Jason Lee (My Name is Earl, Mallrats, The Incredibles, etc) was commentating StarCraft matches, for some reason. I was very disappointed.
On October 23 2010 11:36 wuddersup wrote: Jason Lee + AnyKnowledgeableProGamer = Good combo
YEP. Exactly.
Too many don't seem to understand how commentating works. The guy doing the play by play doesn't actually need that much knowledge of the game. Granted, Jason Lee could use a bit more, since it seems like he's hardly played the game. But that could be easily solved by playing roughly 20-30 games on the ladder. Then presto! He's then knowledgeable enough to do the play by play.
Of course, the more knowledge, the better, but for the play by play guy its his other qualities that matter more (e.g. voice, personality, and general ability to do play-by-play).
I didn't mind too much. I'd have liked him not to make the really obvious mistakes - I know the point has been made a couple of times, but there were occasions were he seemed literally clueless. I think if he improved that aspect of his casting he would be great as a play-by-play guy, but as is it was frustrating that the colour commentators were constantly having to correct him. I mean, if a football (soccer) commentator had to be reminded that the reason the guy picking up the ball wasn't penalised was because he was the goalkeeper and hence was allowed to do that, you wouldn't be praising his professionalism. But he's almost there.
On October 23 2010 12:57 Shanba wrote: I didn't mind too much. I'd have liked him not to make the really obvious mistakes - I know the point has been made a couple of times, but there were occasions were he seemed literally clueless. I think if he improved that aspect of his casting he would be great as a play-by-play guy, but as is it was frustrating that the colour commentators were constantly having to correct him. I mean, if a football (soccer) commentator had to be reminded that the reason the guy picking up the ball wasn't penalised was because he was the goalkeeper and hence was allowed to do that, you wouldn't be praising his professionalism. But he's almost there.
dude quit comparing sports casters to starcraft casters, you look at any sports guy on any channel anywhere, he's professional, calm yet remaining exciting, unbiased, and knowledgable. Look at any sc casters, almost all biased, very unproffesional, super hyper, but knowledgable,
the only thing jason lee doesn't have is knowledge at that is easily taught while the other qualities are very hard if not impossible to teach.
On October 23 2010 12:57 Shanba wrote: I didn't mind too much. I'd have liked him not to make the really obvious mistakes - I know the point has been made a couple of times, but there were occasions were he seemed literally clueless. I think if he improved that aspect of his casting he would be great as a play-by-play guy, but as is it was frustrating that the colour commentators were constantly having to correct him. I mean, if a football (soccer) commentator had to be reminded that the reason the guy picking up the ball wasn't penalised was because he was the goalkeeper and hence was allowed to do that, you wouldn't be praising his professionalism. But he's almost there.
dude quit comparing sports casters to starcraft casters, you look at any sports guy on any channel anywhere, he's professional, calm yet remaining exciting, unbiased, and knowledgable. Look at any sc casters, almost all biased, very unproffesional, super hyper, but knowledgable,
the only thing jason lee doesn't have is knowledge at that is easily taught while the other qualities are very hard if not impossible to teach.
Why shouldn't we compare them? I don't see any reason we should be holding them to lesser standards. Indeed, it seems like you agree with that given that you want the casters to be calmer, unbiased and professional - well I want them to be at least somewhat knowledgeable, too.
Also, I believe the question was how did he do, not how much potential does he have. Frankly, he has rough edges. He may very well be a very good caster in the future, but the gaps in his knowledge made the casts less enjoyable.
Further, sports casters often don't have all the traits that you're ascribing to them, and that's often a good thing. If you watch international sporting competitions, the commentators frequently pull for their nation's athletes to do well. For example, the bbc always highlights the performances of british athletes for example at the olympics. There's no reason this is necessarily a bad thing - I imagine people in britain watching england - germany on the bbc at the world cup weren't getting all put off by the fact that the commentators were obviously massively biased in favour of england, because the vast majority of the viewership were also biased. And similarly at the GSL, it doesn't bother me if there's bias towards the foreigners, for example, because I'm also rooting for the foreigners! YMMV, of course.
As for calmness, well... it can be good. On the other hand, if starcraft is a form of entertainment, I'm going to favour entertaining casts. That's one of the reasons I like husky (and I know that's an unpopular viewpoint on this forum) - his casts are always super entertaining, if not in depth and highly knowledgeable or whatever. I don't mind the casters getting excited so much, but I appreciate that not everyone shares my view - but if you're asking for my personal subjective opinions, then that's something I'm going to highlight.
Finally, professionalism is great, and I agree it can get irritating if all you ever get is injokes or whatever, but that doesn't mean it has to be sterile. If you can get some good chemistry between the commentators, that again makes the whole experience more entertaining. Again I'm thinking back to the beeb here, but Motson and Lawrenson are always more fun to listen to than two people who barely know each other and have been thrown together just on that particular day.
All in all I thought he was pretty good, and definitely competent in all areas, but it would definitely have improved the coverage if he had known a bit more about the game. Even then, though, from some of the hyperbole about him in this thread you'd think he was the second coming - even his supposedly excellent voice I didn't find that exciting, though it was certainly listenable.
/2 cents
EDIT: Oh, and a general note; in a complex game like SC2 I think it's more important for the commentators to at least have a grasp on the fundamentals as they're probbaly going to have to lead some of the viewers through the strategy somewhat. In most sports it's immediately obvious what's going on, whereas in sc2 it's not so - anyone who's played the game knows a fusion core means bcs, but that's not so if you've never played before. So making that kind of mistake actually makes the casting less accessible to the general public, despite the better presentation/voice/professionalism/whatever.
On October 23 2010 12:57 Shanba wrote: I didn't mind too much. I'd have liked him not to make the really obvious mistakes - I know the point has been made a couple of times, but there were occasions were he seemed literally clueless. I think if he improved that aspect of his casting he would be great as a play-by-play guy, but as is it was frustrating that the colour commentators were constantly having to correct him. I mean, if a football (soccer) commentator had to be reminded that the reason the guy picking up the ball wasn't penalised was because he was the goalkeeper and hence was allowed to do that, you wouldn't be praising his professionalism. But he's almost there.
dude quit comparing sports casters to starcraft casters, you look at any sports guy on any channel anywhere, he's professional, calm yet remaining exciting, unbiased, and knowledgable. Look at any sc casters, almost all biased, very unproffesional, super hyper, but knowledgable,
the only thing jason lee doesn't have is knowledge at that is easily taught while the other qualities are very hard if not impossible to teach.
Why shouldn't we compare them? I don't see any reason we should be holding them to lesser standards. Indeed, it seems like you agree with that given that you want the casters to be calmer, unbiased and professional - well I want them to be at least somewhat knowledgeable, too.
Also, I believe the question was how did he do, not how much potential does he have. Frankly, he has rough edges. He may very well be a very good caster in the future, but the gaps in his knowledge made the casts less enjoyable.
Further, sports casters often don't have all the traits that you're ascribing to them, and that's often a good thing. If you watch international sporting competitions, the commentators frequently pull for their nation's athletes to do well. For example, the bbc always highlights the performances of british athletes for example at the olympics. There's no reason this is necessarily a bad thing - I imagine people in britain watching england - germany on the bbc at the world cup weren't getting all put off by the fact that the commentators were obviously massively biased in favour of england, because the vast majority of the viewership were also biased. And similarly at the GSL, it doesn't bother me if there's bias towards the foreigners, for example, because I'm also rooting for the foreigners! YMMV, of course.
As for calmness, well... it can be good. On the other hand, if starcraft is a form of entertainment, I'm going to favour entertaining casts. That's one of the reasons I like husky (and I know that's an unpopular viewpoint on this forum) - his casts are always super entertaining, if not in depth and highly knowledgeable or whatever. I don't mind the casters getting excited so much, but I appreciate that not everyone shares my view - but if you're asking for my personal subjective opinions, then that's something I'm going to highlight.
Finally, professionalism is great, and I agree it can get irritating if all you ever get is injokes or whatever, but that doesn't mean it has to be sterile. If you can get some good chemistry between the commentators, that again makes the whole experience more entertaining. Again I'm thinking back to the beeb here, but Motson and Lawrenson are always more fun to listen to than two people who barely know each other and have been thrown together just on that particular day.
All in all I thought he was pretty good, and definitely competent in all areas, but it would definitely have improved the coverage if he had known a bit more about the game. Even then, though, from some of the hyperbole about him in this thread you'd think he was the second coming - even his supposedly excellent voice I didn't find that exciting, though it was certainly listenable.
/2 cents
EDIT: Oh, and a general note; in a complex game like SC2 I think it's more important for the commentators to at least have a grasp on the fundamentals as they're probbaly going to have to lead some of the viewers through the strategy somewhat. In most sports it's immediately obvious what's going on, whereas in sc2 it's not so - anyone who's played the game knows a fusion core means bcs, but that's not so if you've never played before. So making that kind of mistake actually makes the casting less accessible to the general public, despite the better presentation/voice/professionalism/whatever.
I see where you're coming from and it makes sense, but for me, I have alot of knowledge of the game, not too brag, but i usually know where a build is going when the producition tab is up, and there panning around each players base, Alot of people get annoyed when jason sayed the wrong thing, for me it was just, well i know what it is any way so why is it necissiary that he knows too? I can see how it can be frusturating when it can seem so obvious, but it didn't frusturate me at all, and since the onlymthing jason was lacking was knowledge it didn't bother me at all, yes if you're a sc noob don't listen to him for tips, but than again whos watches the GSL as a noob?
Tasteless will say the game is over after 3 minutes into the game... Its like saying theres no point watching the game that will go for another 30 minutes no more because its over because of the first 3 minutes.....
On October 24 2010 11:50 ilmman wrote: Tasteless will say the game is over after 3 minutes into the game... Its like saying theres no point watching the game that will go for another 30 minutes no more because its over because of the first 3 minutes.....
It is often the truth though. Although sometimes there have been comebacks which proved him wrong.
On October 21 2010 08:25 shawster wrote: he was just fine
great voice and good professionalism
lacked some game knowledge but that's learnable
I felt exactly this.
I could tell he was very good at casting, trying to keep from having any dead space in the cast, always talking about something, and just being very professional about things.
BUT, there were times where he said things that made me wonder exactly how much he knew about the game. Obviously he knew the names of the units and buildings, but I'm not sure how much else he knew.
My source has it that jason lee is actually very good at SC2, he once all killed another team playing random in one of the US server team league. And he's been trolling everybody with his fake ignorance, fun times
I liked Jason Ree, but he was kind of a noob at times albeit a great caster.. really didn't like the guy with the funny italian name. I thought Xeqtr was pretty cool though ^^
Jason Lee and Idra was a good combo, Idra's knowledge about the game gives substantial analysis while Jason brought energy and professionalism. I'd say they were better to listen to than Artosis and Tasteless.
EPT
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