EPTidk if that made sense to anyone but me =/
BroodWar -> StarCraft2 Damage Types and Inflation - Page 2
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hEndO
United States124 Posts
idk if that made sense to anyone but me =/ | ||
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Tyler918273
115 Posts
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kariido
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
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Tyler918273
115 Posts
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GagnarTheUnruly
United States655 Posts
I also don't buy the argument that the system makes SC2 more 'hard-countery' and DPS-oriented. If anything, there are fewer one-sided unit interactions in SC2, more units are more viable in more matchups, and units generally take longer to kill one another in SC2 vs BW. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
On October 14 2010 20:29 Nazza wrote: sc1 hydra hp: 80 sc2 hydra hp: 80 Now compare the speeds. *weeps*. Now compare the armor types. *continues to sob*. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
Great points, and the current damage system (and how blizzard has used it) really lends to the overwhelming number of "hard counters" that exist in starcraft 2, IMO. It helps make the battles seem less dynamic and more forced. | ||
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
On October 14 2010 19:46 tacrats wrote: sc1 ling hp: 35 sc2 ling hp: 35 lol :-\  | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
And +dmg vs biological? The new system is more versatile than the BW damage system, BUT it hasn't been fully explored by Blizzard. Only a few units are outside the light/armored/+vs light/+vs armored rigid design. But they show that it exists! | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On October 14 2010 23:17 tetracycloide wrote: Now compare the armor types. *continues to sob*. Now compare the supply and cost... ;________; | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
Hydras were medium, now they are light. Vultures were medium, Hellions are light. Corsairs were medium, Phoenixes are light. Lurkers don't have a closely related unit. Massive is "extra large" and if corruptors didn't have a bonus against it, it wouldn't matter at all. Also, the damage inflation is irrelevant to the system used. The SC2 system is more flexible and can be made to act like the BW system(with the exception that it's bugged vs shields and you'll have to code the damage for that yourself). | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On October 14 2010 23:45 sylverfyre wrote: Now compare the supply and cost... ;________; now compare DPS and indivdual unit damage output vs. gateway units  | ||
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crw
Canada70 Posts
On October 14 2010 23:58 Protoss_Carrier wrote: now compare DPS and indivdual unit damage output vs. gateway units Jesus wept when he tried SC2 | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On October 14 2010 18:21 Archael wrote: What is an Ultralisk? What's it supposed to counter? Armored units? But the Ultralisk IS itself Armored (Because it's Massive, and in SC2 Massive gets hit by + dmg vs Armored), so it gets annihilated by the units that it's supposed to be good at killing, despite the fact that they needed to give it +100 HP with all the + Armor flying around. This brings up an issue that was heavily debated in the beta: Every races primary early-game anti-armor unit is also armored. Marauder, roach, and immortal are all designed to be anti-armored, but they are armored themselves...so they counter each other. This was called the 'unholy trinity'. And as you point out, the ultra suffers this as well, being an armored unit that has bonus damage vs armored. However the ultra is still good at killing some units that don't have bonus damage vs armored, like the thor & colossus. I really wish there was at least 1 non-armored unit that did bonus damage vs armored :/ | ||
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Lina
42 Posts
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Warlock-X
Canada37 Posts
On October 14 2010 23:58 Protoss_Carrier wrote: now compare DPS and indivdual unit damage output vs. gateway units Now compare the DPS per food(or per gas cost which is the same thing) | ||
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Archael
United States15 Posts
On October 14 2010 23:56 lololol wrote: Armored isn't medium, medium simply doesn't exist anymore. Hydras were medium, now they are light. Vultures were medium, Hellions are light. Corsairs were medium, Phoenixes are light. Lurkers don't have a closely related unit. Massive is "extra large" and if corruptors didn't have a bonus against it, it wouldn't matter at all. ^ To whoever said I was misunderstanding SC2 unit types, I'm quoting this for truth. Medium doesn't exist anymore. OP here. I wrote this post before going to bed like at 5 AM my time, so I'm sorry if my thought process jumps around a little bit. My point was that SC2 feels forced. Build this vs this, or die. Not fun to watch. And in SC2, archons suddenly don't suck vs all types of damage and can actaully be used effectively to TANK damage, because they have NO armor type. just Psionic. And +dmg vs biological? The new system is more versatile than the BW damage system, BUT it hasn't been fully explored by Blizzard. This is a joke, right? Just because 1 oddball Protoss unit has + Bio damage doesn't make the system more versatile, just like 1 oddbal Zerg Corruptor having an exclusive +Massive bonus doesn't compensate for the rest of the system causing damage inflation. It's cute and gimmicky, but like you said, it hasn't been fully explored, everything feels and behaves half-way, so we're stuck in this: Great points, and the current damage system (and how blizzard has used it) really lends to the overwhelming number of "hard counters" that exist in starcraft 2, IMO. It helps make the battles seem less dynamic and more forced. | ||
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Viikuna
4 Posts
On October 14 2010 22:21 hEndO wrote: very interesting read. Solid points. Thanks for the contribution. I didnt play BW so i cant personally compare but I do agree with your take on the Massive units being armored and dying to the units they are supposed to kill. In general I just think that units Hard counter each other too greatly (this is not an original idea). I think if my army is worth 3 times as much as yorus but your unnits "hard counter" mine it should be a closer fight than it is currently. idk if that made sense to anyone but me =/ I too think that theres too many hard counters. The game could be way more about using terrain for your advantage, trying to punish enemy of his little mistakes and countering his strategies, instead of his unit compositions. ( This would be also much more fun to watch ) For example: using vultures against dragoons. Dragoons got advantage agains vultures, but with some good spider mine usage you can actually prevent enemy from pwning your ass before you get some tanks out. ( You know, some godly micro play, dropping mines around dragoons and running away and stuff like that ) Theres also some very ridicilous things like tanks only doing 35 damage to light. It makes no sense, but was a must-do nerf because of that ridicilous tank targetting AI. But still, you can no longer use small groups of lings to take out some unprotected tanks. That targetting AI is what made tanks strong, and Blizzards response was to add some more hard countering weapon to the game. edit. Blizzard is just doing some very bad and very weird design choises for this game. 125 health infantry units? 400 health giant mech robots? If I knew nothing about new units I would instantly guess that we are talking about new Protoss units, not new Terran units. Theres just so many little thingies that bother me and that I cant understand why they are in way they are. | ||
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