I was playing around a bit with mass overseers in a game I was quite far head in. I was playing around with mass changelings and then something popped into my head... You can't move through changelings that are on hold command... This lead me to try a tactic that I hereby name ... Changefield !
*NEW* Changefield with Mutalisks ( with only 1 overseer )
Changefield with Ground army
Changefield with Nydus
Ever wished you had sentries for those awesome forcefields to ramps, trapping armies inside or outside a base while you spread havoc ? Well now you can ! Just get a few overseers and collect some energy, Then make a bunch, run up a ramp, make a line across it and press the " h " hold command key !
Voila ! Enemy can't get down his ramp because of the changelings, queue mass confusion !
Even if he notices they are changelings, if you have enough he still has to manually click every single one of them to finally be able to get out of his base, but will he be in time ? ^^
Bonus clips
How to stop mass protoss air as zerg.
Nydus mining.
Poll: Who will be the first zerg master to utilize this in a pro game ?
Dimaga (534)
63%
Cool (159)
19%
Idra (86)
10%
JulyZerg (37)
4%
Lalush (22)
3%
Losira (16)
2%
854 total votes
Your vote: Who will be the first zerg master to utilize this in a pro game ?
Or how you could use this in an actual game - drop 2 changelings and run them to his ramp on lets say blistering sands, while running your stuff in through his backdoor, he might be having his camera in his main base microing scvs etc so the changelings might delay him for a few seconds. If he has his army in his expo of course.
On October 12 2010 06:51 ZOMGCYN wrote: That was so obviously set up xD
Good creativity but not viable at all really since pros would kill the changelings as soon as they saw them.
Even if you kill all the changelings, with 5-6 overseers with full energy you have 20-24 changelings on your ramp and you need to click on every single one before you can get down :þ It takes a while !
Doing that in mass amounts probably wont ever happen, but imagine blocking a protoss opponent's ramp with 2 or 3 changelings while killing his natural, or blocking it while you plant a nydus inside. This definitely has potential. My brother plays zerg and in the beta he had a changeling block ZvT that worked pretty well. If bnet supports beta replays ill post it.
I saw some game on steppes of war, quite some time ago, it was maybe dimaga ... not sure, however, playing some terran and he blocked some terran units that should have gone down to defend the terrans natural with 1 changeling on the ramp, was brilliant, gg came soon afterwards
Edit: The thing is probably that you need the opponent to be macroing heavily and not paying attention to that place, so early game it won't work, and after it depends on who you are playing and how obvious you are doing it, with 1 it is harder to see what you did there, but anyaway i think this is a one trick pony, and ppl learn from their errors.
On October 12 2010 06:52 Draconicfire wrote: Wow, you weren't kidding when you said you were really far ahead, look at that mini map >_>
This seems pretty awesome actually, but I'm not exactly sure how effective it would be since any type of splash would destroy them all pretty fast.
Splash damage will not affect the changelings except a siege tank shell, which would mean he would have to siege up to shoot at them, quite a delay in itself .
On October 12 2010 06:48 theqat wrote: It will probably never get used, but I'm voting dimaga because he does the most ridiculous things out of anyone listed
think so too. imo idra is to conservative, he wouldn't use this in a game^^
but its a smart idea, the only deficit is, if the your opponent has a observer ready, it would break the changefield :D
On October 12 2010 06:48 theqat wrote: It will probably never get used, but I'm voting dimaga because he does the most ridiculous things out of anyone listed
think so too. imo idra is to conservative, he wouldn't use this in a game^^
but its a smart idea, the only deficit is, if the your opponent has a observer ready, it would break the changefield :D
Detection does nothing to changelings, you need to manually click each and every one.
You could even do it, with two or so changelings during or while his army is moved out of his main in the mid/late game and he might not realise until it's too late for his reinforcements to actually get out of his base. They're more used for slowing stuff down rather than stopping them dead.
Like right there, he could of killed them sure, but that would of given you like 5 or so seconds where he's killing them, to attack an expo. Interesting no?
On October 12 2010 07:04 Qikz wrote: I personally think it's an interesting idea.
You could even do it, with two or so changelings during or while his army is moved out of his main in the mid/late game and he might not realise until it's too late for his reinforcements to actually get out of his base. They're more used for slowing stuff down rather than stopping them dead.
Like right there, he could of killed them sure, but that would of given you like 5 or so seconds where he's killing them, to attack an expo. Interesting no?
You can definately do this with much fewer, like or 3 blocking the hole a protoss makes in his wall to get units out of or to block a lowered supply depo. I might upload some more clips once I start using this more, I just discovered it like half an hour ago so I'll try use it in some high level games and find more ways. Everyone feel free to post replies here of you using Changefield! in fun and interesting ways.
LOL! When the music kicked in i almost fell out of my chair laughing so hard. Also, I doubt this would actually work against anyone with any knowladge. All you need to do is shoot them but this guy was like "Wtfbbq!!111" and couldn't figure it out. He probably wrote Blizzard a letter about how his marines were hacked and couldn't move.
ohh i gotta try this. i like how you abuse players that are of lesser skill than you lol. worse thing i've done is neural parasite a scv, i think i did it about 10+ times to finish a CC
It happened to me a long time ago. I blocked one thor with 1 changeling, sitting on his supply depot (it was an accident, but still). He didnt see that for about 10 seconds. Gave me some time to set up defenses :D
Woah, today I came up with the same idea! I was playing some funday monday games with friends and went mono overseers. I figured out that the only way to be useful would have been to block the ramps with loads of changelings. What an awesome coincidence!
ive used this a few times in games where there's a building choke, usually vs protoss. jsut 1 changeling is enough to block protoss chokes, but in the games it really hasnt delayed that much, the players would have to be completely not watching for it to be effective. perhaps if there is another battle going on somewhere else would it really work. also dropping a lot is unreasonable mostly cus you dont have a bunch of overseers with max energy just lying around, you use them for contaminate or changelings before they max
On October 12 2010 09:03 Zelniq wrote: ive used this a few times in games where there's a building choke, usually vs protoss. jsut 1 changeling is enough to block protoss chokes, but in the games it really hasnt delayed that much, the players would have to be completely not watching for it to be effective. perhaps if there is another battle going on somewhere else would it really work. also dropping a lot is unreasonable mostly cus you dont have a bunch of overseers with max energy just lying around, you use them for contaminate or changelings before they max
Could save up energy on a couple to pull this off, imagine it with muta harass, his stalkers are trying to go through the choke to follow between expansion and main and they keep getting stuck while the protoss player is an a panic wondering why his units don't arrive right away.
On October 12 2010 10:57 Tazza wrote: Lol, this could be really good for blocking critical marines with a few changelings and make muta harass better
Block marines going through lowered supply depo or stalkers trying to defend from mutas, if he is too busy to look at his choke he will wonder why his forces arent coming to help defend :þ
I believe this was also covered in sheth's ZvP guide
Good to see some actual video evidence though lol.
TBH- Contaminate is WAY cooler than mass changelings. Here's an actual strategy that can be feasibly implemented:
ZvT, Requiring only one overseer. Produce 20 blings or so. (with lair tech for overseer you should have centrifugal hooks too)
Cast contaminate on an OC- it CANNOT lift off. Run blings into OC, kill base.
*Note- contaminate also prevents raxs/depots from lifting off/ lowering, so for implementing muta harass do that instead. Unlike changleings, detection won't do anything against contaminate
*Edit- I've scoured scwiki and liquipedia, and google, and actually have found NO information about if it(contaminate) can or can't actually prevent lift off. I thought I remembered seeing it on a bnet thread list of cool tricks/tips though. In regards to patch changes, it was corrupters who used to have the contaminate ability in beta, but then they switched it to overseers.
Do note that the natural life of the changling is longer than the contaminate ability (150 Gs compared to 50 GS)
On October 12 2010 12:11 Zvendetta wrote: I believe this was also covered in sheth's ZvP guide
Good to see some actual video evidence though lol.
TBH- Contaminate is WAY cooler than mass changleings. Here's an actual strategy that can be feasibly implemented:
ZvT, Requiring only one overseer. Produce 20 blings or so. (with lair tech for overseer you should have centrifugal hooks too)
Cast contaminate on an OC- it CANNOT lift off. Run blings into OC, kill base.
Note- contaminate also prevents raxs/depots from lifting off/ lowering, so for implementing muta harass do that instead. Unlike changleings, detection won't do anything against contaminate
Sen has already used this on his stream. He had 2 or 3 Changelings block the ramp of a Terran player's main base so the Thors could not exit as he demolished the main army, preventing reinforcements. Though he used it more as of a joke since he was winning pretty handily already.
On October 12 2010 12:11 Zvendetta wrote: I believe this was also covered in sheth's ZvP guide
Good to see some actual video evidence though lol.
TBH- Contaminate is WAY cooler than mass changleings. Here's an actual strategy that can be feasibly implemented:
ZvT, Requiring only one overseer. Produce 20 blings or so. (with lair tech for overseer you should have centrifugal hooks too)
Cast contaminate on an OC- it CANNOT lift off. Run blings into OC, kill base.
Note- contaminate also prevents raxs/depots from lifting off/ lowering, so for implementing muta harass do that instead. Unlike changleings, detection won't do anything against contaminate
they can lift off. maybe youre thinking about Corruption, the old version
contaminate ONLY halts production of units, and research/upgrades. and spawn larva from queen yes, i am 100% sure
Those things die extremely fast, but I suppose it'd be good if you mass a ton of them.
For that time and money, though..
I liked the music. Also, the opponent in that game had a ton of Thors, so it looked like he would have had some difficulty killing the Changelings close to him without accidentally targeting the Thors, lol.
This better not get "fixed"; I really want to see this in action in a real game.
The "Changefield" is old , but would be nice to see it in a real game. Also, again with the freaking benny hill theme, why, whats the point ?! Its not funny, its just awful, i hate it please dont use it ever again.
On October 12 2010 12:11 Zvendetta wrote: Cast contaminate on an OC- it CANNOT lift off.
Note- contaminate also prevents raxs/depots from lifting off/ lowering, so for implementing muta harass do that instead. Unlike changleings, detection won't do anything against contaminate
I'm pretty certain that this is all false. Perhaps you're thinking of the old corrupter ability, but contaminate only stops production and research.
I think there's a lot of hindsight bias in this thread. People read the theory and are focused on the theory, so go "Oh I'd notice that if it happened. NOT VIABLE."
I think in a real ladder scenario, it has it's niche moments, and when it's possible it could be pretty effective.
On October 12 2010 12:11 Zvendetta wrote: Cast contaminate on an OC- it CANNOT lift off.
Note- contaminate also prevents raxs/depots from lifting off/ lowering, so for implementing muta harass do that instead. Unlike changleings, detection won't do anything against contaminate
I'm pretty certain that this is all false. Perhaps you're thinking of the old corrupter ability, but contaminate only stops production and research.
On October 12 2010 12:36 DreXxiN wrote: I think there's a lot of hindsight bias in this thread. People read the theory and are focused on the theory, so go "Oh I'd notice that if it happened. NOT VIABLE."
I think in a real ladder scenario, it has it's niche moments, and when it's possible it could be pretty effective.
That seems to be the main reason this idea hasn't been suggested before. People talking about changelings are thinking about changelings, and think to themselves, well, I'd notice a changeling in my base. But in a real game, you're not thinking just about changelings, you're thinking about everything else, with changelings being only an infinitesimal part.
Of course, this exact idea doesn't rely on deception or lack of "clicking every marine to see if I can move it," but I'm seeing the same logic going on here.
I could see using a bunch of changelings against a heavy marine composition bio ball. Run them in the back when they engage your roach / ling / banelings. When the T micros his ball backward at any time, bunch up changelings and hold position. There is going to be a lot of over kill on 5hp changelings unless he singles out a few marines to pick them off, or he doesn't pick any off and you can trip up some units and pick them off.
I've seen this done by a korean zerg against a protoss in a ladder game. He used one changeling to block the choke at the ramp, and nydus'd in the main. It stopped the toss momentarily, allowing him to do more damage with the nydus, before backing out again.
Your video showing the application of this is fairly limited.
I used to do this during the beta and again when the game came retail, it works really well Vs. low level players, specifically protoss players. Whenever you play against a player who has a tight choke (protoss using a zealot to block his ramp, etc.) you can simply drop another zealot in front, and if you are lucky they wont realize it and you can stall them for a short while.
However, this would not work at high levels. In all honesty, you could also block a small ramp as a Zerg with infestors using Infested Terran to block the ramp. But again, that is very limited, and if you need to resort to such tactics, you probably wont win anyway.
Actually I've seen some norwegian player doing this on the one of the Zotacs/CraftCups with only 2 changelings on Blistering sands. He got into the finals.
A couple friends I played with last week for Funday Monday were doing mass Overseer, Evo chambers/spine/spore, and Thors and changelings proved to be pretty awesome. There were SOOO many at a certain point that their only real option was to get some AoE or to just wait it out since single targeting would have taken forever to break through. Or they could just go air (which they did, lol).
Huge time delay ? Clicking 25(or 50 times if u prefer a click) times doesnt take that long with players having >300apm in battles. I think this is not only useless but a huge waste of gas and overlord energy. This could never ever be even a bit useful in a game of 2 good players.
Sen did this like a week ago on his stream when he was playing on the NA server. yeah he was just kidding around against a lower skilled player but it was quite funny to see.
On October 12 2010 12:36 DreXxiN wrote: I think there's a lot of hindsight bias in this thread. People read the theory and are focused on the theory, so go "Oh I'd notice that if it happened. NOT VIABLE."
I think in a real ladder scenario, it has it's niche moments, and when it's possible it could be pretty effective.
its not viable 99% of the time though.
dont you think someone is going to think something is up when 5 overseers are flying around his base? Or when 5 units are running at his choke on the minimap (plus the cnangelings would die much faster this way) ? Even assuming he didnt, and your changeling wall kept him in his base for an extra 20 seconds, you just spent a huge amount of gas on overseers, so your going to have a crappy army, so after that 20 seconds of loltime, if he rolls out you are dead. if you kill his nat with this he will attack right away and you die.
a 1 changeling block is worthwhile sometimes, but mass overseers is just something to do against bad players.
This was already used in a pro Korean game. In ZvP the Protoss had walled off with a little gap for a Zealot. Late in the game when both players had an expo (Metalopolis) the Zerg player used a changeling to block the gap while he Nydus'd into the main and wreaked havoc.
doom drop while doing this to the guys main ramp seems to be a extremly good strat considering his army is prob at his third / natural.
this will also buy extra time to snipe the tech building that hard counters your unit mix.
and ye voted dimaga cause he is always up for trying crazy shit, but hoping for IdrA in the gsl or something and shock everyone like he did with the whole magic box trick.
I think I saw Artosis use this in some of his games way back in beta, not mass changelings tho, just a couple of them and it worked fine because toss player didn't notice it so his units got stuck on the LT ramp Not sure about how good this would be vs someone good :D
Some dude did it to me in a PvZ on a tournament (not sure if it was Zotac). Though it was only 8 of those changelings, you have to attack them manually to kill them. By that, 4 of my chargelots got stuck and were sniped by hydras - for a basicly free unit from an overseer not bad at all right?
Never ever seen it again though, would love to see that as a major game element since Overseer spells are hardcore underused imo!
EDIT: to clarify: this was in a bigger battle where he used his anyway free-changelots to distract my actual force
ye its nice i actually used in in ladder long time ago just to try and it worked and it doesnt even have to be so much units and all...
i was playing vs a protoss and got like 8 of my changelots on his army when he was going to attack i put them all in front and made a wall blocking all his zealots and units xP
On October 12 2010 20:48 rjT. wrote: senseless strategy your opponent would just kill them
its all about winning time.. it will take time for the opponent to kill them specially if u get him by surprise and in that time you can make lot of damage
On October 12 2010 20:52 hadoken5 wrote: I think the enemy will have expanded and will notice any changelings coming in, plus they usually rally the army outside.
Block the ramp and nydus / drop inside his main then. Same concept.
you should add Sheth to the poll. Especially considering he posted this under Tips and tricks in his "Sheth's Guide" post. Still a great idea regardless of the creator
On October 12 2010 07:04 throttled wrote: Yeah, they can be killed off.... one by one. Manually clicking 25 changelings can be a huge amount of time delay.
Don't see how this wouldn't be viable endgame.
I'd say the delay on your end from getting 25 overseers might even it out.
On October 12 2010 06:53 itsben wrote: This is old and to be honest, not very viable. I don't see any reason to get that many overseers especially when zerg are always gas starved.
Oh damn some random guy on the internet with no credentials just PROVED that this not viable, no one better ever use this again.
i remember seeing a pvz on meta where the zerg blocked the protosses choke with one changeling and dropped in his main. it took the protoss quiet a while to realize why his units couldnt move in, which allowed the zerg to kick all of his tech structures
On October 12 2010 07:04 throttled wrote: Yeah, they can be killed off.... one by one. Manually clicking 25 changelings can be a huge amount of time delay.
Don't see how this wouldn't be viable endgame.
I'd say the delay on your end from getting 25 overseers might even it out.
You get 4 changelings per overseer, take another look at your math.
very cool, i dont see myself ever investing that much time/money into getting like 4+ observers though, very hillarious to see the dude go "wtf" towards the end
I don't really see this come into play in a high-level tournament or even on the Ladder, cuz any decent player will notice this and just kill the changelings, just like you almost never see a changeling living long against a skilled player anyways.
On October 12 2010 23:05 sylverfyre wrote: 1-2 changeling block I can see, to capitalize on moments of lost focus.
20? Lol 6 overseers - I'd take 6 extra mutas over that any day.
6 times 4 is 24, not 20
Besides, if you are capped you can't make use of those extra theoratical mutas. Overseers don't cost any supply, they give it and work as detectors / scouters as well. Mind you, you don't need 5 or 6 overseers to do this trick, You can put 2 in a choke to delay, although 20 or more will delay the enemy army so much you'll definately kill this expansion without losing a unit, which is worth way more than " 6 mutas ".
On October 12 2010 23:25 comis wrote: Terran: "Wow that's a lot of changelings. Guess I'll send 2 marauder to his base and end the game since the retard has no units."
1 overseer early game is what every terran will have and you only need 1 for this, you CAN add more in late game, not necessary, but you can to make a big barrier of changelings. I don't know if you think an overseer costs 5000 minerals and gas but 2 marauders won't touch anything.
I also think Dimaga purely because he's the only one on that list that would use such an obscure trick, the other players while possibly better overall than Dimaga would never have the guts to try something like that I don't think.
actually this is interseting, i wonder if it would be worth it to use changelings to help attacks like run them into the enemy lines and mess up their formation and not allow as many of them to attack at once.
When I first saw this post I thought "yeah right :\" but after seeing the videos I was actually impressed with how effective it was (even though the opponents seemed pretty bad).
The only problem is (especially in a pro game) when will you be able to dump that many resources into a ton of overseers while all they need is one detector to make the entire strategy useless?
I kinda doubt we will ever see this in high level play. But I do like it.
I think this could have been quite viable back when overseers pooped out infested terrans.
I've won a game doing this with a single changeling. Toss had walled in his nat with only a single space for units to go through. After 66% of his army left, I moved hte changeling in front of it and put it on hold position. The rest of the army got stuck and never went through, he didn't notice. I barley won the fight... would have lost if the other third went through... so lucky... he was like "CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T NOTICE THIS!!!"
This is an old idea that has already been used many times. I've seen many top players use it in replays and I've used it myself. It's much more logical when in standard numbers though. 4-5 to block a ramp instead of trying to get a ton. It's just not worth the amount of micro/overseers needed when opponent can just queue attacks on them all.
On October 13 2010 03:36 slam wrote: When I first saw this post I thought "yeah right :\" but after seeing the videos I was actually impressed with how effective it was (even though the opponents seemed pretty bad).
The only problem is (especially in a pro game) when will you be able to dump that many resources into a ton of overseers while all they need is one detector to make the entire strategy useless?
I kinda doubt we will ever see this in high level play. But I do like it.
I think this could have been quite viable back when overseers pooped out infested terrans.
I don't know why people think detection does anything at all to changelings. You need to manually click every single one to get rid of them, with or without detection, as it does nothing to affect them.
On October 12 2010 06:59 Wreacknell wrote: This seems like a really advanced strategy.
Maybe your opponent will go ahead and just effing kill you.
Just maybe.
How would he kill you ? When you've blocked his army in his base and killed all his expansions you've got a big advantage ^^.
he kills you because his army is 500 min and 1000gas bigger, because you made 10 overseers.
Who made 10 overseers ? If you ever made over 2-4 overseers it definately means you are food capped already, in which case blocking half or his whole army outside his base while you ravage it is nothing but positive.
On October 12 2010 06:59 Wreacknell wrote: This seems like a really advanced strategy.
Maybe your opponent will go ahead and just effing kill you.
Just maybe.
This is somewhat related...
A few weeks ago I played a game where I Roach Nydused against Terran, and had burrowed 2 Infestors to spit some Infested Terrans to block his ramp (similar to the Changelings).
At my base, since I feared a counter, I had 3 Overseers ready at my ramp to do the Changeling block defensively, at least to buy time to fall back with my Roaches via Nydus. The counter never came but I think it would have been a good move.
The idiots in this thread severely underestimate the importance of positioning in battles. A considerably less obvious use of this strategy is to take a SINGLE overseer and a SINGLE changeling and place it ON the ramp in hold positioning, effectively blocking off only half of the ramp. Time this *exactly* as you move in for an attack on the expansion. Even if you force the army to trickle past you for a mere second (assuming a player literally sees the changeling, responds, and attacks it), it could result in several free unit kills if you have setup even a half concave outside of his ramp. Positioning is what wins and loses tournaments as we've seen over and over, and even slight hiccups in positioning can greatly affect the outcome of a battle.
when i get home tonight im going to try this out with roach nydus to enemy main with changlings at ramp lol...... would be pretty funny! especiallys if u run a bunch of overlords and stack them over the changlings so he cant click em easy!
doesnt your army attack them automatically if you have detection? Late game you'd probably have overseers, obs, ravens, hts, ghosts, infestors; plenty of things that will allow you to kill anything under 30 changelings in like a second.
On October 13 2010 04:32 LolnoobInsanity wrote: doesnt your army attack them automatically if you have detection? Late game you'd probably have overseers, obs, ravens, hts, ghosts, infestors; plenty of things that will allow you to kill anything under 30 changelings in like a second.
You truly deserve your own nickname... Read the thread again and tell us if that didn't answer ur question.
I mean there has been like what ? At least 1 post about detection on every page. Is that really hard to read the whole thread ? T_T
On topic : On the 2nd video though, is it possible to use the splash damage from hellions to kill them all ? Wondering this because tank friendly splash =/= hellion friendly splash right ?
On October 13 2010 04:32 LolnoobInsanity wrote: doesnt your army attack them automatically if you have detection? Late game you'd probably have overseers, obs, ravens, hts, ghosts, infestors; plenty of things that will allow you to kill anything under 30 changelings in like a second.
I've used this with one changeling on a ramp, blocked all his thors from defending the natural and just let down a trickle of bio, its actually a very useful stalling tactic.
On October 13 2010 06:31 adius wrote: With that many overseers, wouldn't it be better to perma-contaminate the enemy's infrastructure?
If you think you can dodge all the missile turrets and the enemy army, maaybe you could do that. No use against a capped enemy though, as well as enemy won't really let you stay over his production for long periods.
the other day i was fucking around and did this kind of thing only with baneling eggs. blocking a choke on scrap while using hydras with range to brutalize a toss frontline. worked great. and after the zealots were taken care off a bunch of banes hatched to join with my hydra army lol.
i don't know how much hp changelings have but i think that they die waaaay to fast to act as an effective blockade... it's a pity that lurkers are gone in sc2 since lurker eggs were an effective way to block off ramps and narrow passages.
This works easily with changelings if you do it while terran is moving out... His reinforcements would probably get cut off for 20-30 seconds before he notices that they aren't streaming in, and when he goes to click the changelings you hit his army...
This has been brought up in beta, when discussing ways to Nydus more effectively. The premise was to use 3-6 changelings to block a ramp while you nydus into the main / natural cutting his army off giving you the time to deal you damage and escape
On October 14 2010 02:32 Kryptix wrote: This works easily with changelings if you do it while terran is moving out... His reinforcements would probably get cut off for 20-30 seconds before he notices that they aren't streaming in, and when he goes to click the changelings you hit his army...
There are numerous uses for changefield, I guess one could use them in formation to make a wall prior to a battle. Wall around your hydras to protect them from zealots maybe?
Pretty sure you're making a mistake if you're investing that much gas into overseers and saving energy for changelings instead of shutting down production buildings with contaminate. If you're not maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be enriching the gas composition of your army. If you are maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be building up larvae to quickly replenish your army after a battle.
On October 14 2010 05:14 Nightmarjoo wrote: Pretty sure you're making a mistake if you're investing that much gas into overseers and saving energy for changelings instead of shutting down production buildings with contaminate. If you're not maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be enriching the gas composition of your army. If you are maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be building up larvae to quickly replenish your army after a battle.
I don´t see what 100-100 gas has to do with larva production.
Splash damage surprisingly kills all changelings in the range of the splash. Makes the Changefield less scary since all you pretty much need is 2-3 Hellions for T to break through. Protoss can also just use a storm assuming it's that late in the game.
Anywho, this is a lot less scary since you won't have to click 50 times to get through that wall.
On October 14 2010 08:54 HaIf wrote: Splash damage surprisingly kills all changelings in the range of the splash. Makes the Changefield less scary since all you pretty much need is 2-3 Hellions for T to break through. Protoss can also just use a storm assuming it's that late in the game.
Anywho, this is a lot less scary since you won't have to click 50 times to get through that wall.
Still means you have to have hellions or storm around and be watching your ramp constantly to know if anything extra is there, this deficit of attention from the opponent will come into your favor, as well as a bigger advantage when there is no such AoE next to the ramp.
On October 13 2010 03:48 hero33 wrote: this is .... well... to put it short your 1450..... and probly in a crap division. of diamond
and you are? a 2k+ diamond? Right..... very doubtful. stop the dick measuring and start spelling right. seriously.
Well rating either doesn't mean everything or it means everything. Just depends what day of the week it is.
OT: Very cool find OP (even if it apparently has been found before, whatevs). Don't know if it would be viable in tournaments but it could be fun in team games or FFAs when your opponents have more things to focus on. Benny Hill music was totally unexpected too lol
This isn't really new. I remember seeing this in a Zerg advice thread. Still, it's an interesting tactic, and high level players will easily have the APM for this. Can't say just HOW viable it will be, but it sounds like a tactic I would use anyways XD
you just show videos of you playing the worst people in the world. all you have to do is click on the changlings. it takes them like 45 sec to even respond to their base getting destroyed. plus how much bigger could your army be with all those overseers, which is better than stalling for like 2 seconds.
Multiplayer games (e.g. 2v2). Move your changelings close to one player so they transform, then block the other player with them. If they haven't shared control the blocked player won't expect to be able to move them anyway and isn't going to be so keen to target fire them down.
'MOVE YOUR MARINES OFF MY RAMP SO I CAN GET DOWN!'
Most terran players have at least one hellion or siege tank by the time zerg could get a large army, as well as a nydus and a bunch of overseers with a lot of energy. Not only that, but if they don't have hellions and tanks, they very likely have medivacs instead, which can allow marines and marauders to just jump over the changelings
Lastly, stimmed marines, or really even any army, could probably kill a mass of changelings really fast when you shift click... all you got to do is hold shift and spam right click, pretty damn simple and fast.
The best way to play this is with maybe 2 changelings, since it's not common one would have any more energy to nydus at a good time, and an extra investment of overseers is a complete waste of money when you can get infestors to fungal or mutas to harass.
On October 14 2010 11:28 HughJorgen wrote: I think you're missing the best use for this.
Multiplayer games (e.g. 2v2). Move your changelings close to one player so they transform, then block the other player with them. If they haven't shared control the blocked player won't expect to be able to move them anyway and isn't going to be so keen to target fire them down.
'MOVE YOUR MARINES OFF MY RAMP SO I CAN GET DOWN!'
On October 14 2010 12:24 Xapti wrote: Most terran players have at least one hellion or siege tank by the time zerg could get a large army, as well as a nydus and a bunch of overseers with a lot of energy. Not only that, but if they don't have hellions and tanks, they very likely have medivacs instead, which can allow marines and marauders to just jump over the changelings
Lastly, stimmed marines, or really even any army, could probably kill a mass of changelings really fast when you shift click... all you got to do is hold shift and spam right click, pretty damn simple and fast.
The best way to play this is with maybe 2 changelings, since it's not common one would have any more energy to nydus at a good time, and an extra investment of overseers is a complete waste of money when you can get infestors to fungal or mutas to harass.
On October 14 2010 11:28 HughJorgen wrote: I think you're missing the best use for this.
Multiplayer games (e.g. 2v2). Move your changelings close to one player so they transform, then block the other player with them. If they haven't shared control the blocked player won't expect to be able to move them anyway and isn't going to be so keen to target fire them down.
'MOVE YOUR MARINES OFF MY RAMP SO I CAN GET DOWN!'
They don't change to allied units AFAIK.
I think you are missing the point. If the enemy needs to siege up a tank or use drop to ferry his units into his base to save it, you've already made a huge gain.
Changelings change into the units of the first player they see, so you can use this in multiplayer to block teammates.
On October 14 2010 12:24 Xapti wrote: Most terran players have at least one hellion or siege tank by the time zerg could get a large army, as well as a nydus and a bunch of overseers with a lot of energy. Not only that, but if they don't have hellions and tanks, they very likely have medivacs instead, which can allow marines and marauders to just jump over the changelings
Lastly, stimmed marines, or really even any army, could probably kill a mass of changelings really fast when you shift click... all you got to do is hold shift and spam right click, pretty damn simple and fast.
The best way to play this is with maybe 2 changelings, since it's not common one would have any more energy to nydus at a good time, and an extra investment of overseers is a complete waste of money when you can get infestors to fungal or mutas to harass.
On October 14 2010 11:28 HughJorgen wrote: I think you're missing the best use for this.
Multiplayer games (e.g. 2v2). Move your changelings close to one player so they transform, then block the other player with them. If they haven't shared control the blocked player won't expect to be able to move them anyway and isn't going to be so keen to target fire them down.
'MOVE YOUR MARINES OFF MY RAMP SO I CAN GET DOWN!'
They don't change to allied units AFAIK.
Sorry, what I mean is, if you're player 1 and your teammate is player 2 and you're playing against players 3 and 4, my idea is to move three changelings near to player 3, then use those changelings to block player 4. I'm guessing that in lower level games at least, player 4 will think that his own teammate has blocked him in, and will probably ask his teammate to move them. Hilarity ensues...
On October 14 2010 05:14 Nightmarjoo wrote: Pretty sure you're making a mistake if you're investing that much gas into overseers and saving energy for changelings instead of shutting down production buildings with contaminate. If you're not maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be enriching the gas composition of your army. If you are maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be building up larvae to quickly replenish your army after a battle.
I don´t see what 100-100 gas has to do with larva production.
First of all it's not 100 gas if he's making enough to drop 16+ changelings at once, and secondly obviously it has nothing to do with the larvae production, it's a matter of using up gas that normally would be quickly replenishing the zerg army. If you use up that gas before you attack, your reinforcements are going to be too ling heavy, which may be largely useless depending on the composition of your opponent's army.
On October 14 2010 05:14 Nightmarjoo wrote: Pretty sure you're making a mistake if you're investing that much gas into overseers and saving energy for changelings instead of shutting down production buildings with contaminate. If you're not maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be enriching the gas composition of your army. If you are maxed, it's a bad idea because you should be building up larvae to quickly replenish your army after a battle.
I don´t see what 100-100 gas has to do with larva production.
First of all it's not 100 gas if he's making enough to drop 16+ changelings at once, and secondly obviously it has nothing to do with the larvae production, it's a matter of using up gas that normally would be quickly replenishing the zerg army. If you use up that gas before you attack, your reinforcements are going to be too ling heavy, which may be largely useless depending on the composition of your opponent's army.
This trick does not REQUIRE many overseers, all it needs is 1. You CAN do it with many, to delay even further, although doing it with 1 is more subtle. You can get 4 changelings out of 2 overseer that you get anyway for scouting and detection. In an end game situation, or mid game where you are harassing hardcore with a flock of mutas, you can get 2-3 overseers to take out a base for FREE because it delays his army. Think outside the box. Also, in an endgame situation ( try looking at video #2 ) when your army is already capped, some extra gas for overseers for changefield does absolutely nothing to hinder your army.
Looks cute but dosen't seem that effective really.. And yeah, it takes some time to click on all the changelings, but it îs easy if you have a mouse with APM TECHNOLOGY!!
Love the name, btw.. I can allmost hear Tasteless in the gsl screaming.. CHANGEFIELD GALORE!!
In both games, if you had attacked his army head on you would have won anyways. im interested to see this strategy in a game where you dont really have an advantage to start with.
On October 15 2010 02:29 WB Kid wrote: In both games, if you had attacked his army head on you would have won anyways. im interested to see this strategy in a game where you dont really have an advantage to start with.
I like what i saw though, very creative.
Much safer to win with your whole army remaining than lose half of it, check the new clip and you'll see how much of a difference it makes.
2: <insert diamond player> already posted about this back in beta, that is so last week.
3: This could easily be stopped by <insert tactic>
4: I didn't actually try this in a game, and without trying it im just going to say it's stupid. Until this thread gets 20+ pages, then i'll pretend i never doubted it.
On October 15 2010 03:07 Malminos wrote: Summarization of strategy post replies on TL:
1: That's really cool! i'll have to try that.
2: <insert diamond player> already posted about this back in beta, that is so last week.
3: This could easily be stopped by <insert tactic>
4: I didn't actually try this in a game, and without trying it im just going to say it's stupid. Until this thread gets 20+ pages, then i'll pretend i never doubted it.
5: <insert troll post>
6: Xel'Naga imba.
You forgot " Oh I just discovered this myself this morning ! ".
Camlito (Edge on SEA) was way ahead of you, he used this in a tournament game with a simple 2-changeling ramp block to take out a nexus. You have to do it pretty improv so they are less likely to notice.
In the example I mentioned from Edge he hit the P nat on DQ with mutas and then the P moves his stalkers but then he sent 2 changelings to ramp block. The P is less likely to notice because really who is checking the ramp when you have mutas in your nat. It bought him JUST enough time to take out the nexus and run without taking damage on his mutas.
On October 15 2010 02:21 Dagon wrote: Looks cute but dosen't seem that effective really.. And yeah, it takes some time to click on all the changelings, but it îs easy if you have a mouse with APM TECHNOLOGY!!
Love the name, btw.. I can allmost hear Tasteless in the gsl screaming.. CHANGEFIELD GALORE!!
On October 12 2010 06:51 ZOMGCYN wrote: That was so obviously set up xD
Good creativity but not viable at all really since pros would kill the changelings as soon as they saw them.
But yeah voted Dimaga for the same reason XD
well having 30+ off them and the fact that without detection they need to focus fire them down it'd give you enough time to run in, kill shit and run out
On October 12 2010 06:51 ZOMGCYN wrote: That was so obviously set up xD
Good creativity but not viable at all really since pros would kill the changelings as soon as they saw them.
But yeah voted Dimaga for the same reason XD
well having 30+ off them and the fact that without detection they need to focus fire them down it'd give you enough time to run in, kill shit and run out
On October 12 2010 06:48 theqat wrote: It will probably never get used, but I'm voting dimaga because he does the most ridiculous things out of anyone listed
think so too. imo idra is to conservative, he wouldn't use this in a game^^
but its a smart idea, the only deficit is, if the your opponent has a observer ready, it would break the changefield :D
Detection does nothing to changelings, you need to manually click each and every one.
'
I think the real trick is.... put them all on patrol on the ramp, then barely any units will get by, and he wont be able to kill them off / wont bother
writing "haha" when you are winning is worst manner. not writing gg or complaining about mindfuck luck is absolutely okay in my opinion. "haha" is just worst. I hope you realize that.
On October 16 2010 08:06 Forsti.henning wrote: writing "haha" when you are winning is worst manner. not writing gg or complaining about mindfuck luck is absolutely okay in my opinion. "haha" is just worst. I hope you realize that.
I'm evil like that I guess, anyways I just found it very funny, hence the laugh.
On October 13 2010 05:15 sob3k wrote: I've used this with one changeling on a ramp, blocked all his thors from defending the natural and just let down a trickle of bio, its actually a very useful stalling tactic.
I like the idea of using a small number of them on a ramp to block/separate thors from the bio and also to get units to move single file into your awaiting ranged concave.
I wonder how well 2 changelings on patrol across a ramp would work to slow the flow of units through it. Or even one unit on patrol for that matter.
On October 23 2010 01:30 Clamps wrote: I like the idea of using a small number of them on a ramp to block/separate thors from the bio and also to get units to move single file into your awaiting ranged concave.
I wonder how well 2 changelings on patrol across a ramp would work to slow the flow of units through it. Or even one unit on patrol for that matter.
Just want to let you know I appreciate your innovation. I tried it out and it worked WONDERS. Brought 2 overseer to assault his expo and dropped changelings in the middle of the battle----there was so much chaos he didn't even notice. Then the changefield went and I dropped my army into his base...I never know 6 changlings can change the result by SO DAMN MUCH!
I've seen people used this is quite serious games by putting one or two changelings at a small choke. You are only using excessive energy to possible gain an advantage. If someone have rally points from their main, it can take quite a while before they are noticing that their units are stuck at a ramp. Win win.
On October 29 2010 21:09 closey wrote: Dear absalom86,
Just want to let you know I appreciate your innovation. I tried it out and it worked WONDERS. Brought 2 overseer to assault his expo and dropped changelings in the middle of the battle----there was so much chaos he didn't even notice. Then the changefield went and I dropped my army into his base...I never know 6 changlings can change the result by SO DAMN MUCH!
lol I never thought about late game spamming of changelings and blocking a ramp. (although I have used it to block ramps in smaller numbers early) They should probably not be allowed to hold position.
My interest in the first video definitely skyrocketed once the music started going, but in all seriousness this is a really awesome concept. I'm definately going to try and work this into my play.
After the set between Zenio and Grack and now this video I have found a new love for the Overseer.
On November 02 2010 18:46 Seanly wrote: My interest in the first video definitely skyrocketed once the music started going, but in all seriousness this is a really awesome concept. I'm definately going to try and work this into my play.
After the set between Zenio and Grack and now this video I have found a new love for the Overseer.
Mass contaminate in ZvZ and Changefield are definately underused. Will be interesting to see them used in professional games more and more.
no offence absalom..but what league were ur oponents? i mean yeah..u can miss 1 changeling..... but when u see like almost 12 marines blocking ur choke...and u only made like hellions /thors or marauder/thor (like in the games u posted) doesnt comes in ur head like "ummm didnt i only made hellions? "?
i mean dont want to sound like the "i would never fall for that"...but ussually im alergic to changelings..and every time i see an zealot (im playing toss) moving..and i remember my troops werent moving..i know something's fishy....(got my "Meet the spy achivement in a league game )
my changeling paranoia went so far that once ive accidentally killed one of my zealots... better safe then sorry
as an side note...yes....zergs dont use the oveseer as much as they should...contaminate really has its uses.Imagine if ur against an 1 basing toss..and he is trying to get collosi out..to combat ur hidras...2 overseers (assuming u get them earlier then he got his robo bay) can stall his collosi..for like 2 min ? Assuming they have energy for 2 contaminates each.That can seriously derail most 1 base builds or tech builds which involve around getting thors/voids/collosi/banshees etc...stalling and getting that extra time can give u an edge.I know 100/100 its the price of an muta,but being able to delay that timing push...can really help u more then an muta.
On November 02 2010 18:46 Seanly wrote: My interest in the first video definitely skyrocketed once the music started going, but in all seriousness this is a really awesome concept. I'm definately going to try and work this into my play.
After the set between Zenio and Grack and now this video I have found a new love for the Overseer.
Mass contaminate in ZvZ and Changefield are definately underused. Will be interesting to see them used in professional games more and more.
Mass contaminate is way more useful, and potentially game-ending.
This is funny, but not really useful compared to contaminate.
I've used this in an actual 2v2 game (i.e. not a FFA or on where you're massively ahead anyway) where I dropped 2 in his main to block the ramp and my ally would blink in stalkers and he couldnt retreat. I feel using only 2 to block the ramp is more effective as in him not figuring out what's going on. if you block with 50 he'd have to kill them all yes, but he'd also know what's going on straight away. Plus you'd need a ridiculous amount of overseers.
i think perhaps combining infestors fungal growthing the ramp, spawning 50 ITs and retreating into a nydus is perhaps easier but more expensive if done wrong... though i admit the idea of using changeling is quite hilarious when it works.
I think this is a pretty great idea, if you have overseers, you might as well try and make them effective. Of course you can use them to contaminate a building, but I think it can be pretty situational.
On November 12 2010 21:02 Soulxfire wrote: i think perhaps combining infestors fungal growthing the ramp, spawning 50 ITs and retreating into a nydus is perhaps easier but more expensive if done wrong... though i admit the idea of using changeling is quite hilarious when it works.
infested terrans are instantly spotted and killed, and it is way more expensive to do. overseers are non combat units so their energy isn't all that valuable if you can't get contaminates off.
I thought of this in beta but quickly realized that it wasn't viable due to that they can be killed, at most it will just slow down opponents so little it wont be noticeable unless you throw down like 10+ of them which you shouldn't be able to afford anyways.
I can see this actually working against a protoss who walls with a 1 unit hole. If you warp in units and rally them to the spot they are needed, you aren't going to babysit them along the way.
On December 01 2010 14:48 donut boi wrote: yea mass contaminate would be wayyyy better lol
I think this is true but then again... it'll only work for such and such rank, etc. Higher level players will probably find ways around it (are changelings in mass effected by splash damage? If so collossus/Tank/Hellion ftl.)
Epic, all i can say, never though of doing this exaclty, seems like it would useful on pretty much any map with small chokes, as long as u have a decent muta count.
I used it to block a rally point so he kept looking for his 3 tanks and dozen marines while came barreling into his nat. By the time he found his tanks and tried to seige i had already closed the position. When it gets to late game and your opponent is doing 140 different things at once checking blocked rallies isn't something that crosses his mind.
You can waypoint your changelings into position on a ramp while you attack to make it less noticable due to your enemy being preoccupied trying to take down your attacking forces. He won't notice that his units aren't moving quickly. I also saw Morrow use this in a game where he made about 15 changelings, lined them up and moved into an enemy army and pressed hold. This made a changefield between him and his army and none of the enemies melee units could pass it. Another use for Changefield ^^.
It's a cool idea but realistically if you ever tried this in a decent league it would fail hard.. Anyone who isn't a noob would know to kill them the second they saw 20 units running up.
I brought up the possiblity of this about three months ago http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151011 and have read a couple more threads about this too but haven't seen any general interest in this topic until now. Good on you for bringing it up and I hope this tactic will be used more often now.
Looked like Morrow tried to use it in their epic match on Metalopolis in the SC2 Reddit tournament the other day. Recommend everyone watched that game ( and series ). Some of the most epic games ever.
On January 11 2011 23:41 absalom86 wrote: Looked like Morrow tried to use it in their epic match on Metalopolis in the SC2 Reddit tournament the other day. Recommend everyone watched that game ( and series ). Some of the most epic games ever.
Got any links to the match or battle reports? I'd be intrested in seeing how it went for him, at work otherwise I would look for the match myself.Thanks
On October 12 2010 06:56 Tabularasa wrote: Changelings are to obvious and can easily be killed off - but blocking a ramp with dark templars in a similiar way as protoss is pretty cool.
I did this in a PvP in sc 1. My opponent was destroyed by my DT rush, and tried to all in with all the forces he had left. I pretty much had no army to speak of so I walled off my ramp with DTs, sniped off his Nexus and his other important buildings. A great game, memorable times. I had caught my opponent off guard, he had no detection.
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
A changeling that has just been dropped from an overseer is a hostile unit, not disguised instantly, and is auto attacked by nearby enemy units.
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
A changeling that has just been dropped from an overseer is a hostile unit, not disguised instantly, and is auto attacked by nearby enemy units.
I think the Changeling is really fragile and the IA on the banelings wouldn't allow many of them to blow up at the same time.
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
A changeling that has just been dropped from an overseer is a hostile unit, not disguised instantly, and is auto attacked by nearby enemy units.
I think the Changeling is really fragile and the IA on the banelings wouldn't allow many of them to blow up at the same time.
//tx
1 changeling is 25 overseer energy, 1 baneling is 50 minerals 25 gas ( math ? ) so i'd say that's a very worthy trade.
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
A changeling that has just been dropped from an overseer is a hostile unit, not disguised instantly, and is auto attacked by nearby enemy units.
Well I apologize then, for I was misinformed. However I do have a questions:
Does the bling still attack automatically if the changling is dropped in sight but changes form before it is in range? Or do you have to time it exactly and have it attacked before it is morphed?
On January 12 2011 06:35 dkim wrote: would be better as baneling soaker than a "changefield" imo but both pretty impractical o.O
Not sure what you mean with " baneling soaker ". Using banelings to kill changelings is a loss in my books.
Thats the point he means drop a changeling on top of banelings to make a couple blow up
Im pretty sure you have to manually target changelings to attack, so dropping them on banelings would have no effect unless your opponent specifically clicked on it. So I don't practically see why you would a) manually attack a changeling with your blings if you saw it drop or b) why you would manually attack a changling that you didnt see drop (and hence looks like your own ling). Both seem unlikley.
A changeling that has just been dropped from an overseer is a hostile unit, not disguised instantly, and is auto attacked by nearby enemy units.
Well I apologize then, for I was misinformed. However I do have a questions:
Does the bling still attack automatically if the changling is dropped in sight but changes form before it is in range? Or do you have to time it exactly and have it attacked before it is morphed?
it works like dropping marauders on banelings, you just drop right on the ball of banelings and if the zerg isnt paying attention they will auto attack.
Cool idea. I voted Losira because after Losira vs Bomber in the GSTL this is exactly what I would expect from him. Anyway time to go try this in customs.
On February 12 2011 13:54 SlapMySalami wrote: tlo should have been on the poll list
I completely agree with your comment. To me TLO is the most innovative player out there. I love his tactics, he is willing to try out anything. He is the Batman of Sc2. Proxy supply depot? Yeah he can make that work.
This has the potential to work really well. If you have more than 1 overseer, lets say 3, thats 12 changelings. It will take time to realise wats happening (thats already several things dead) and will take a tiny bit to kill all 12 (more free stuff to destroy). Thats a pretty good harrass, and it cost you absolutely nothing. And thats assumng the opponnt does well. As you saw above, they epic failed, and can happen any game. more overseers also means more buildings/probes you kill. Also, if you killed an vital tech building, it cud be gg. Very creative, and its not that micro intensive or anything. I want to see a pro use this.
This was hilarious! Good job :D If he was prepared for it he could probably attack-queue all of them and kill them quite fast I think CatZ would be the first to utilize this, he always does crazy stuff like this
This would actually be somewhat viable on Crossfire, that map is full of narrow pathways. You could even cut off retreats. Would definitely be pimp if it happened in GSL... Can only wish... :p
On February 12 2011 17:38 TheDominator wrote: This has the potential to work really well. If you have more than 1 overseer, lets say 3, thats 12 changelings. It will take time to realise wats happening (thats already several things dead) and will take a tiny bit to kill all 12 (more free stuff to destroy). Thats a pretty good harrass, and it cost you absolutely nothing. And thats assumng the opponnt does well. As you saw above, they epic failed, and can happen any game. more overseers also means more buildings/probes you kill. Also, if you killed an vital tech building, it cud be gg. Very creative, and its not that micro intensive or anything. I want to see a pro use this.
I've seen MorroW at least attempt to use this in a few games. Definately unexplored tactic and interesting to see more of it.
On February 12 2011 23:37 NeWnAr wrote: Dude you can kill the changelings with workers. Once the opponent realizes it's easy to counter.
I think the difficulty of dealing with this is the fact that you'd need to individually attack each changeling once they're morphed. Plus with the Nydus worm example, the changelings just buy time for the Nydus to pop up and unload enough units.
Nice find, might try this out sometimes. As previous commenters said: most people just a-move their army using the minimap, so there will mostly be a delay untill they notice their army is stuck, and even then they have to manually kill each changeling.
On February 13 2011 01:41 Linz wrote: Nice find, might try this out sometimes. As previous commenters said: most people just a-move their army using the minimap, so there will mostly be a delay untill they notice their army is stuck, and even then they have to manually kill each changeling.
Can also be used to stop reinforcements from a terran army arriving by clogging his wall with a changeling or two.
On February 14 2011 14:29 HadesCP wrote: Not gonna lie, the how to stop protoss air was simply awesome! As for changlings, pretty cool idea that as lower level zerg I'm gonna try out.
hilariously, this works. Did it with about 10 changelings from 4 overseers i had left over from contaminating, killed all his tech while he was killing them off.
On February 15 2011 04:58 Darkkal wrote: Wouldn't any form of splash damage (Terran's siege tank, Protoss' high templar, Zerg's fungal growth) instantly kill all of them?
If you had a tank set up next to your ramp, using a storm to kill the changelings would be a win in the zergs books ( especially if you walked through it in a hurry, taking damage from it yourself ).
All you do is right click on the changelings :/ not sure why that is a "good strategy" when anyone who's ever killed a changeling before can stop it. You really think having to right click 8 times or so is really worth the contaminate energy? No pro will use any of these in a pro game. The mass air thing could have been stopped 1a with pure hydra corrupter, and why would his mothership just be chilling with full energy. And the nydus mining could actually be used, but it would be much more efficient to just nydus a drone and make a hatch. I find it hard to believe that anyone takes these "tricks" seriously :/
ROOTSLush already did this to me in EGMasters 3rd place match Game 5 of a bo5, and it got him the win. He used 2 on my ramp so that marines could ft through but not tanks, so i saw my marines reinforcing and thought everything was fine, but when i went back to check my base while i was pushing there were 3 tanks stacked on top of 2 changelings, woulda changed the game since my push lasted 4 minutes and he barely held it off
On February 18 2011 01:35 bLuR wrote: ROOTSLush already did this to me in EGMasters 3rd place match Game 5 of a bo5, and it got him the win. He used 2 on my ramp so that marines could ft through but not tanks, so i saw my marines reinforcing and thought everything was fine, but when i went back to check my base while i was pushing there were 3 tanks stacked on top of 2 changelings, woulda changed the game since my push lasted 4 minutes and he barely held it off
This would never be feasible. Any platinum+ player is not going to let changelings "block" his ramp. ABOVE that, you'll never see a protoss use 4 zealots to block a ramp. Neat, but useless.
this will probably only work in bronze, i did it once on impulse with a single zealot in the usual spot to finish a protoss wall and the same thing happened, i took out his nat before he noticed. But... this was back in bronze.
Idont care if its been "used in pro games already", you can easily stop it, this is not viable at a high level.
On February 18 2011 04:27 Reptaur wrote: this will probably only work in bronze, i did it once on impulse with a single zealot in the usual spot to finish a protoss wall and the same thing happened, i took out his nat before he noticed. But... this was back in bronze.
Idont care if its been "used in pro games already", you can easily stop it, this is not viable at a high level.
That's some Grade A flawed logic if I ever saw any.
On February 18 2011 04:27 Reptaur wrote: this will probably only work in bronze, i did it once on impulse with a single zealot in the usual spot to finish a protoss wall and the same thing happened, i took out his nat before he noticed. But... this was back in bronze.
Idont care if its been "used in pro games already", you can easily stop it, this is not viable at a high level.
That's some Grade A flawed logic if I ever saw any.
So you think pros dont know how to click on changelings? i dont understand how anyone could see this as viable at a high level. You present this in such a way that you seem to think zerg actually can use this as a forcefield without seeing the flaws in that logic. You dont need detection for them and theyre incredibly easy to spot, and even if you can manage to get them into an advantageous position they can all be individually clicked on in like under a second while zerg may be in a position where he would have greatly profited from getting overlord speed rather than overseers.
If this became a "thing" players would be aware of it, and it would be nullified. It is however very cute.
On February 18 2011 04:19 thawkk wrote: This would never be feasible. Any platinum+ player is not going to let changelings "block" his ramp. ABOVE that, you'll never see a protoss use 4 zealots to block a ramp. Neat, but useless.
Well, it has already been used. Missing 1 changeling is something even pros can do.
I had this done to me today, lucky enough I am terran and just lifted my natural like a sissy and had his own changelings block his banelings from hitting me, was awesome :D!
On February 14 2011 20:09 SkCom wrote: The mining trick is AWESOME! Well, totally not cost and time efficient in a normal game I suppose, but still very imaginative. Thumbs up my friend!
Could be worth it in some rare cases, but definately not something mainstream .
The Nydus mining is definitely the most viable/cool. It's what, 10 seconds 20 seconds to Build an exit? So an "expansion" in 10-20 seconds, at lower cost, and no drone transfer time, and then all your hatcheries could just be in your main, and you could easily move your army from "expansion" to "expansion"
A useful situation that does come up sometimes with changelings is when your opponent lifts his CC towards his new expo. If you keep the changeling under it he can't drop the CC for a pretty long time. That situation randomly happened to me and I just lol'ed.
Another downside to this strat that people may try is a single archon actually can kill like 8-10 with its splash attack if not more and the overseer energy can be utilized a lot better with contaminate when engaging the toss force so they can't warp in reinforcements.
On March 12 2011 16:59 Bwiggly wrote: Another downside to this strat that people may try is a single archon actually can kill like 8-10 with its splash attack if not more and the overseer energy can be utilized a lot better with contaminate when engaging the toss force so they can't warp in reinforcements.
Not sure how often you will see an archon sitting next to ramp as the unit is already virtually never used. Making one to kill changelings certainly wouldn't be worth it.
How does the Nydus mining actually work? I can't think of a way it works without insane apm, and if you had that much free apm, I would assume you were way better than your opponent already. Not that it isn't awesome/cool.
Your first example seems like your opponent just M-moved into the ramp, and didn't decide to correct this action. I mean, the Photon Cannons should have detected the Changeling as being a Changeling... therefore, if he had A-moved, he would have one-shotted all the Changelings, and just marched up to his main.
On March 29 2011 15:21 teh_longinator wrote: Your first example seems like your opponent just M-moved into the ramp, and didn't decide to correct this action. I mean, the Photon Cannons should have detected the Changeling as being a Changeling... therefore, if he had A-moved, he would have one-shotted all the Changelings, and just marched up to his main.
You have to manually order anything that can kill units to kill changelings, but they can be seen by simply clicking on them. However, your units will never kill one without your intervention.
been watching SLush's stream recently and he actually does use this sometimes. He just now used it on Shattered temple to block off a P's stalkers from his own main base while his mutas were given a few extra seconds to do what damage they could. Obviously it is more based on the opponent not paying attention to their units than it is correctly 'microing' or anything like that, but it has been used to effect on his stream.
Also, yesterday, he used like 3 changelings to do the same thing, which bought his mutas enough time to snipe a key tech structure! :D :D
This tactic and others derived from it are now 50% more cost effective. 4 overseers for 200 gas. 2 for 100. We might even see mass changeling fields used in battles to cut off retreating units and stuff like that since they are so cheap now.
EPT
