• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:31
CEST 06:31
KST 13:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy16ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Behind the scenes footage of ASL21 Group E A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F [ASL21] Ro24 Group E Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9927 users

SC2 Math! How Many Workers for Constant Prodcution

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
kidcrash89
Profile Joined August 2010
198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 19:08:39
October 11 2010 03:51 GMT
#1
SC2 Math! How Many Workers for Constant Production

Introduction
So, after reading another SC2 math thread, I - being very bored - decided to pursue a problem that's been troubling me for quite awhile:

How many gatherers do I need to have to constantly produce some unit u out of X amount of buildings?

Spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?lugm36un2m0n2ij
Web App (not by me, but awesome nonetheless): http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/

+ Show Spoiler +
This has been on my mind a lot, especially as a Zerg player. I mean, how many times have you Zergs out there made too many drones and found your money sky rocketing past what you can spend? Or maybe vice-versa where you are trying to support a build which is too expensive. As a math major, it is my duty to provide the world with all kinds of crazy shit like this. Hopefully nobody's already done this (if so then the experience was worth the while anyways!). I hope this post will lead to some very interesting analysis of SC2!

P.S. I wouldn't mind if someone made a spreadsheet of all the units in-game vs. the number of production buildings which had cells containing the number of workers needed for minerals/gas. I'm too burnt out to figure out how to do one myself!

Special thanks to Texas Instruments for making ballin' calculators and to Columbus for giving me a three-day weekend.

Also, for corrections, questions, or other comments, I can be reached at trebyoyoyoyo.236 on North American servers.

Enjoy!

EDIT: A cool program which someone just referred me to. Definitely recommend people check it out. Good to see our results match!
http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155279

I hope I didn't fuck up the bolded, simplified versions. Sorry if I did!


------------------------------

Overview
(note that F(x) does not imply F is a function of x is my notation; these are substitutes for subscripts, e.g. F(x) could be food supplied by x):

The following are equations for each of the races which will output the approximate number of workers required to sustain constant production of some unit out of a number of buildings. An explanation of my methods and a list of the assumptions I made are also listed below. Examples of tests I performed are given as well.

USES:
+ Show Spoiler +
Massing one unit of of some amount of bases, this will tell you how many workers on mins/gas you should have. This accounts for supply units and automatically calculates their cost in the total cost.

You can create unit compositions with this as well. Say I wanted an army of 40% Roaches and 60% Hydras. Then, for minerals (and similarly for gas), I would do this:
Total gatherers on minerals = 0.4(Gatherers to mass Roaches) + 0.6(Gatherers to mass Hydras)

One interesting find: Carriers (without Interceptor costs) are cheaper to mass than Void Rays, Phoenix, or Collosus!


Spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?ihdinkzl8192c4f

Considering saturation:
+ Show Spoiler +
Using strictly Liquipedia data:

2 or less mining a patch = negligible saturation rates

drone mining w/o sat = .7 per sec
drone mining w/ sat = 102/(60 * 3) = .567 minerals per sec

(.7 - .567) / .7 = ~19% loss

Each saturated drone (must consider all 3 in each patch) is mines at 4/5 the rate of an unsaturated drone

In other words, we should add 1 unsaturated drone for every 5 saturated drones. Calculate the number of drones on the spreadsheet and then compensate for however many of those drones are on saturated mineral patches. Understand that this means if I have 2 saturated patches, that means I have 6 drones on saturated drones. I'm defining saturated patches to be patches with 3 workers on them; a patch with 2 drones mines practically as well as 2 patches with 1 drone. In general, if you have 24 on minerals / base, then you want 5 extra drones on unsaturated veins.

Check
Assume 5 patches (15 workers). We assume that we should add 3 additional workers. This should give us the same result as 15 workers on unsaturated minerals.
5 * 1.7 + 3 * .7 should equal 15 * .7

5 * 1.7 + 3 * .7 = 10.6 minerals per sec
15 * .7 = 10.5 minerals per sec

Note: 3 typically on gas mines with negligible saturation rates.


For Protoss/Terran
+ Show Spoiler +
Let M(u) = mineral cost of a unit u
Let T(u) = time cost of a unit u
Let G(u) = gas cost of a unit u
Let X(u) = the number of structures to produce u
Let F(u) = the food cost of unit u
Let M(s) = mineral cost of a supply source s
Let F(s) = the food supply of a supply source s
Let G(M) = number of gatherers on minerals
Let R(M) = the average gathering rate of minerals for a single gatherer = ~ .679 minerals / sec
Let G(G) = number of gatherers on gas
Let R(G) = the average gathering rate of gas for a single gatherer = ~.676 gas / sec

Gatherers required on minerals to produce unit u on X(u) structures:
G(M) >= [X(u) / [T(u) * R(M)]] * [M(u) + [F(u) / F(s)] * M(s)]

Gatherers on minerals >= 18.41 * (number of buildings) * [8 * (mineral cost of unit)
+ (supply cost of unit)] / (time to make unit)


Gatherers required on gas to produce unit u on X(u) structures:
G(G) >= [X(u) * G(u)] / [T(u) * R(G)]

Gatherers on gas >= 1.48 * (number of buildings) * (gas cost of unit) / (time to make unit)

Note: R(G) is more sensitive on the distance of the gas on the map. On Kulas where there is a close geyser and a far geyser, the close geyser mines at about .774 gas / sec and the far one about .600 gas / sec.


For Zerg
+ Show Spoiler +
Let M(u) = mineral cost of a unit u
Let T(u) = time cost of a unit u
Let G(u) = gas cost of a unit u
Let X(u) = number of hatcheries producing unit u
Let F(u) = the food cost of unit u
Let M(s) = mineral cost of a supply source s
Let F(s) = the food supply of a supply source s
Let G(M) = number of gatherers on minerals
Let R(M) = the average gathering rate of minerals for a single gatherer = ~ .679 minerals / sec
Let G(G) = number of gatherers on gas
Let R(G) = the average gathering rate of gas for a single gatherer = ~.676 gas / sec
Let R(L) = rate of larva spawn for one hatchery = (1 larva / 15 sec) + (4 larva / 40 sec) = ~ .167 larva / sec

Gatherers required on minerals to produce unit u on X(u) hatcheries:
G(M) >= X(u) * R(L) * [F(s) * M(u) + F(u) * M(s)] / [R(M) * [F(s) + F(u)]]

Gatherers on minerals >= 2.46 * (number of hatcheries) * [.08 * (mineral cost of unit) + (supply cost of unit)] / [(supply cost of unit) + 8]

Gatherers required on gas to produce unit u on X(u) hatcheries:
G(G) >= X(u) * R(L) * F(s) * G(u) / [R(G) * [F(s) + F(z)]]

Gatherers on gas >= 1.97 * (number of hatcheries) * (gas cost of unit) / [(supply cost of unit) + 8]


------------------------------

Methods I used to model this problem:

+ Show Spoiler +
How many gatherers on minerals do I need to constantly produce marines from a given number of barracks?

Assumptions:

*** Gatherers do not lose gathering time by switching between mineral patches. We are only concerned with time to gather and time to return cargo/come back to patch.
*** Mineral patches never become over-saturated. We can have an infinite number of workers on one mineral patch and each will mine at the same rate as one worker would from its own distinct patch.
*** Builders are not considered gatherers.
*** We have all the buildings necessary to make the marines prior to the calculations. *** The cost of a barracks, for example, is not considered.
*** We can start producing units immediately with no supply blocks or other lack of funds.
*** Build time for supply is not considered.
*** All workers, both gatherers and builders, are assumed to be built prior to calculation.
*** All time will be measure in in-game seconds.
*** Income rate is constant.
*** All marines start perfectly on time and are not queued.
*** Some other stuff I forgot about that doesn't matter a whole lot.

Let M(m) = mineral cost of a marine = 50 minerals
Let T(m) = time cost of a marine = 25 sec
Let X(m) = the number of barracks producing marines
Let F(m) = the food cost of a marine = 1 supply
Let M(s) = mineral cost of a supply depot = 100 minerals
Let F(s) = the food supply of supply depots = 8 supply
Let G(M) = number of gatherers on minerals
Let R(M) = the average gathering rate of minerals for a single gatherer = ~ .679 minerals / sec

Fundamental constraint:

Income >= Cost (both in minerals/sec)

If we disregard supply constraints, then clearly
Income >= [X(m) * M(m)] / [T(m)]

If we have one barracks, then our income must be >= 50 minerals / 25 sec = 2 minerals / sec
If we have two barracks, then out income must be >= 100 minerals / 25 sec = 4 minerals /sec

Now we consider supply. By averaging, we find that, for each marine we produce, we must also produce F(m) / F(s) supply depots. Thus, our cost now becomes:
Income >= [X(m) * M(m)] / [T(m)] + [F(m) / F(s)] * [M(s)] * [X(m) / T(m)]

Which can be simplified to read:
Income >= [X(m) / T(m)] * [M(m) + [F(m) / F(s)] * M(s)]

This can be verified with simple dimensional analysis.

Now, we approach the problem of income. Income is directly related to the number of gatherers G we have. The mining rates for SCVs were measured by experimentation and averaged. Some notes about how this data was obtained:
*** Spawned in Top Left position of Kulas Ravine.
*** SCV's spread to middle six mineral patches. End patches were not used.
*** All measurements made in replay viewer at normal speed.
*** Measurements were made at the times which the Return Cargo icon disappeared.
*** All measurements were made after 1 minute of natural mining cycles.
*** Measurements were made for approximately 1 minute game time. I believe this is enough time given the amount of redundancy in the data. Practically speaking, these values will wash in with the rest of the errors in the model and errors in the player's performance.

Avg mining rate = ~ 5 minerals / 7.361 sec = ~ .679 minerals / sec = R(M)

So, our mineral income (given our assumptions) should be:
Income = R(M) * G(M)

Thus, Income >= Cost becomes:
[R(M) * G(M)] >= [X(m) / T(m)] * [M(m) + [F(m) / F(s)] * M(s)]

Solving for G(M):
G(M) >= [X(m) / [T(m) * R(M)]] * [M(m) + [F(m) / F(s)] * M(s)]

Now we can test this result on a real situation. Let's try 5 barracks. This means we need:
G(M) >= (5 / (25sec * .679 minerals/sec)) * (50 minerals + (1 supply / 8 supply) * 100 minerals)
G(M) >= .295 * 62.5
G(M) >= 18.4 gatherers

Which we round to 19 gatherers. Note that having an extra gatherer will also help prevent any early supply blocks we might get from not having the time to finish a supply depot. By having the extra money we can drop the depot earlier, thus refrain from halting any marine production. In the practical sense, having an extra worker will allow you to have an easier time progressing into later stages of the game.

We must also take into consideration the fact that it was assumed that we had enough to produce marines out of every barracks immediately. This means we need X(m) * M(m) = 5 * 50 minerals = 250 minerals to start. We will also need at least X(m) * F(m) = 5 * 1 supply = 5 spare supply to start. Due to our averaging of the cost of supply, it will probably end up being a good idea getting an extra supply depot prior to making marines.

To test this, I've created a custom map. So far I've tested 5 barracks, 19 workers on one base as well as two. I've found two bases to be a significant improvement (due to over-saturation in the main). Over about 5 minutes with less than perfect timing, I wound up having roughly 300 extra minerals with 2 bases and 19 workers mining. I started with 250 minerals and and about 21/38 supply dropping depots roughly every 8 marines (as long as it didn't interfere with marine production). I ended with around 70 marines.

Big picture:
This formula seems to be a decent estimate of how many workers you need to support constant unit production. The formula was kept general so that users can plug-in their own unit combinations. The formula will be reformulated below to incorporate gas. I also plan to write a formula for Zerg. Users should be able to accommodate for over-saturation rather easily either by splitting workers to an expansion or by modifying the formula to account for it. Liquipedia has some mining rates listed as well which you can use. Just remember to convert the rates into (resources / game second).

Let M(u) = mineral cost of a unit u
Let T(u) = time cost of a unit u
Let G(u) = gas cost of a unit u
Let X(u) = the number of structures to produce u
Let F(u) = the food cost of unit u
Let M(s) = mineral cost of a supply source s
Let F(s) = the food supply of a supply source s
Let G(M) = number of gatherers on minerals
Let R(M) = the average gathering rate of minerals for a single gatherer = ~ .679 minerals / sec
Let G(G) = number of gatherers on gas
Let R(G) = the average gathering rate of gas for a single gatherer = ~.676 gas / sec

Note: R(G) is more sensitive on the distance of the gas on the map. On Kulas where there is a close geyser and a far geyser, the close geyser mines at about .774 gas / sec and the far one about .600 gas / sec.

Gatherers required on minerals to produce unit u on X(u) structures:
G(M) >= [X(u) / [T(u) * R(M)]] * [M(u) + [F(u) / F(s)] * M(s)]

Gatherers required on gas to produce unit u on X(u) structures:
G(G) >= [X(u) * G(u)] / [T(u) * R(G)]

------------------------------

For Zerg, Larva needs to be taken into consideration. Assuming that we have queens and that we spawn larva perfectly. We also assume that we only have 1 free larva in this calculation. We can add more by assuming that we have extra money stored up (see marine example):

Let X(u) = number of hatcheries producing unit u
Let R(L) = rate of larva spawn for one hatchery = (1 larva / 15 sec) + (4 larva / 40 sec) = ~ .167 larva / sec

As Zerg, we wish to create a unit, say Zerglings, every larva spawn, ignoring supply:
Income >= X(z) * R(L) * M(z)

Including supply means that we make a Zergling some percent of the time and an Overlord the other percent. We find these percentages by realizing we make 8:1 Zerglings to Overlords:
Income >= X(z) * R(L) * [F(s) * M(z) + F(z) * M(s)] / [F(s) + F(z)]

Income should stay the same as the marine case:
[R(M) * G(M)] >= X(z) * R(L) * [F(s) * M(z) + F(z) * M(s)] / [F(s) + F(z)]

So the number of gatherers on minerals should be:
G(M) >= X(z) * R(L) * [F(s) * M(z) + F(z) * M(s)] / [R(M) * [F(s) + F(z)]]

So, if we are making Zergling off of one base:
G(M) >= .167 (larva / sec) * (8 supply * 50 minerals + 1 supply * 100 minerals) / (.679 (minerals / sec) * 9 supply)

G(M) >= 13.7 gatherers

Round to 14 gatherers and test this result. I will give myself 150 minerals to use the first spawns on Zerglings and cast Spawn Larva immediately. In my test I actually found myself just able to manage with 13 gatherers, but I also tested on LT. Regardless, this method still seems to bring you very close to the optimal number of gatherers.

Gatherers required on minerals to produce unit u on X(u) hatcheries:
G(M) >= X(u) * R(L) * [F(s) * M(u) + F(u) * M(s)] / [R(M) * [F(s) + F(u)]]

Gatherers required on gas to produce unit u on X(u) hatcheries:
G(G) >= X(u) * R(L) * F(s) * G(u) / [R(G) * [F(s) + F(z)]]

------------------------------

For my final test I decided to try Mutas off of two bases:

G(M) >= 2 * .167 * [8 * 100 + 2 * 100] / [.679 * 10]
G(M) >= 49.2 gatherers

Let G(M) = 50 gatherers

G(G) >= 2 * .167 * 8 * 100 / [.676 * 10]
G(G) >= 39.5 gatherers

Let G(G) = 40 gatherers

I chose LT again and made four hatcheries for workers. I only produced out of two with queens. I added extra geysers to my bases so I could reach 14 to avoid trouble with over-saturation. Considering how difficult it is to setup workers on 4 bases, spawn larva, and make units simultaneously, the money was spent very well. Money went up to about 1000/1000 right when larva popped off both hatches and was spent right away. Gas was never in excess and kept right with larva availability. Minerals did creep up a bit because I didn't make Overlords in the beginning since I gave myself a bunch to begin with to avoid the hassle. At about 7 minutes (about 5 of which was actually played) I had about 500 excess minerals, no excess gas and no excess larva.
HolyToilet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States62 Posts
October 11 2010 04:05 GMT
#2
LOL dam this is a great find, I automatically went from silver to diamond once I applied this method to producing my units. Now my macro is pro status
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 11 2010 04:08 GMT
#3
o.O

This makes me want to punch my parents for my simple-minded genes.

It also makes my brain hurt.

Regardless, assuming its all accurate, fantastic work.
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
October 11 2010 04:09 GMT
#4
I went from 1515 diamond Terran to 1523 Diamond Terran in just two games!! THANKS OP!!!

User was warned for this post
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
Aberu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States968 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 04:09:53
October 11 2010 04:09 GMT
#5
What happens if they consistently harass, and/or cheese you and it upsets all of this perfect macro math that you can't do instantly in your head on the fly.

Not attacking, just saying that you can be such a theorycrafter and still lose to harass upsetting yoru set in stone build.

Either way interesting find here. I do like it.
srsly
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
October 11 2010 04:11 GMT
#6
While this is a great bit of theory crafting, even Idra will sometimes falter on his macro, and get some extra income built up, so you should account for that income build up.

Also, this isn't very useful since you always want more workers to saturate your mineral lines, and then some to send over to expansions. Maybe it would be useful in setting up cheese or all in rush? But those are usually early enough in the game to be planned out manually.
RoK Ot7Er
Profile Joined June 2010
United States219 Posts
October 11 2010 04:12 GMT
#7
On October 11 2010 13:09 Aberu wrote:
What happens if they consistently harass, and/or cheese you and it upsets all of this perfect macro math that you can't do instantly in your head on the fly.

Not attacking, just saying that you can be such a theorycrafter and still lose to harass upsetting yoru set in stone build.

Either way interesting find here. I do like it.


Getting harrassed will lower the number of workers. This doesnt discount this, it just means you need to remake the workers in order to be constantly making the units you want..


For example, if it takes 10 workers to constantly be making tanks, and you get harrassed, it will still take 10 workers to constantly be making tanks, but since you lost 2, you have to remake those before this kicks back in.
Whiztard
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States228 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 04:16:16
October 11 2010 04:13 GMT
#8
On October 11 2010 13:09 Aberu wrote:
What happens if they consistently harass, and/or cheese you and it upsets all of this perfect macro math that you can't do instantly in your head on the fly.

Not attacking, just saying that you can be such a theorycrafter and still lose to harass upsetting yoru set in stone build.

Either way interesting find here. I do like it.


then you can quickly count how many harvesters you have left and see how much you can still support, =O.

or you can just rebuild the workers back to the point where you can support what you need to. see? its very easily applied.

EDIT: lol @ post above, you beat me to it.
further EDIT: the R(M) variable shifts based on saturation too, better account for that.
when Bisu switches to SC2...... (2014 update: sighh)
Paperscraps
Profile Joined March 2010
United States639 Posts
October 11 2010 04:15 GMT
#9
This could be useful for figuring out certain timing attacks and so forth, but ultimately in-game experience is a much better indicator of how many gatherers you need.

None the less, a lot of effort and hard work was put into this. Thanks OP!
"Because in the end, the only way we can measure the significance of our own lives is by valuing the lives of others.” - David Gale
kidcrash89
Profile Joined August 2010
198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 04:36:02
October 11 2010 04:19 GMT
#10
Saturation can be accounted for, I'm just too lazy to account for it. You can either account for it by weighting worker value or using some values like those in liquipedia. Or you could just use this as an estimate and use general game sense to account for it. Really the big picture is to get a general idea of how many workers will be needed to sustain any sort of massing. It could also be applied to different unit compositions, again by weighting the values (e.g. going Roach/Hydra with 40% Roach 60% Hydra). It can be a useful and relatively quick tool (in comparison to playing shit tons of games) for finding about how many workers are needed to sustain it.

Plus it answers tons of stupid questions someone can have. Knowing you only need to make 19 SCV's to mass marines of 5 barracks could be a number you might want around for a rainy day.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-11 04:23:05
October 11 2010 04:20 GMT
#11
On October 11 2010 13:11 DragonDefonce wrote:
While this is a great bit of theory crafting, even Idra will sometimes falter on his macro, and get some extra income built up, so you should account for that income build up.

Also, this isn't very useful since you always want more workers to saturate your mineral lines, and then some to send over to expansions. Maybe it would be useful in setting up cheese or all in rush? But those are usually early enough in the game to be planned out manually.


Are you kidding me?

As SC2 evolves, people are going to start looking for timing windows that they can exploit with very precise builds.

Knowing exactly how many workers you need to perfectly stream line those builds is paramount in taking your game to the next level. Again, assuming its all accurate, this is a fucking awesome bit of work.

And for all you uninitiated newbies (ie: never played BW) this kind of theory craft has been around for ages. I can't find it right now, but somewhere in the bowels of the BW forum is a thread that tells you exactly how many workers you need for constant production of units off of "x" amount of production facilities.

edit:

This actually reminds me of a game I played on Blue Storm once.

My Toss opponent fast expanded and made exactly 50 probes - 25 per base, and did a massive 2 base all in timing attack that was brutally effective. When I watched the replay, he had exactly the amount of economy he needed to support exactly the amount of gateways he had built.

This kind of precision is beautiful, and its what makes games like Starcraft (at high levels) so damn impressive.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
October 11 2010 04:22 GMT
#12
This is great. It can even determine the workers when you want different ratios of units.

The only problems I see are if you need a quick tech switch, or if you want to add extra units, like a queen.
There is no one like you in the universe.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
October 11 2010 04:26 GMT
#13
Doesn't it tell you at the bottom of the screen that 24 harvesters is optimum? What else do you need to know? If you have 24 at one base then only build more if you have excess minerals. Is that not what you're talking about?
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
s2pid_loser
Profile Joined March 2010
United States699 Posts
October 11 2010 04:27 GMT
#14
tl;dr
could u possibly bold ur results so i can jus see what ur findings were

i dont doubt ur proof, im curious to see ur result
thanks

User was warned for this post
Et Ducit Mundum Per Luce
ReTr0[p.S]
Profile Joined March 2005
Argentina1590 Posts
October 11 2010 04:31 GMT
#15
40 Gatherers and GG? GG INDEED
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
October 11 2010 04:31 GMT
#16
good math
i think i'd be more useful to the community if you just provided something like
x workers = y production for stalkers or something.
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
kidcrash89
Profile Joined August 2010
198 Posts
October 11 2010 04:34 GMT
#17
On October 11 2010 13:27 s2pid_loser wrote:
tl;dr
could u possibly bold ur results so i can jus see what ur findings were

i dont doubt ur proof, im curious to see ur result
thanks


Hit the quotes for your race, variables need to be plugged-in based on what your interested in knowing.
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
October 11 2010 04:41 GMT
#18
That's a lot of typing.... probably more typing than you did Math..

and even then it's a lot of Math. More than i'm willing to think about.. however still enough to where i can comprehend it

one thing: it doesn't say how many workers you have so it's nearly impossible if a banshee walks in and gets 20 kills or a DT to your 3rd or a helion drop in your main... it's a GREAT math AND concept.. but very VERY hard to apply unless you're an excellent speed counter. GL to whoever wishes to use this to their advantage!
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
Phant
Profile Joined August 2010
United States737 Posts
October 11 2010 04:54 GMT
#19
To make this more accurate, I would suggest making a table for resource collection rate for a given number of workers at a base (since the equation that models this is probably a little nasty if you take it past 8 workers). Get rid of everything in the equation that involves workers, only find out how many resources and gas per minute it takes to maintain an army and nothing else. Once you have this number, go to your newly created tables and look at the number that matches closest to what you need rounded up. There would probably be 2 or 3 possibilites.

x workers on 1 base.
x workers on base 1 y workers on base 2
x workers on base 1, y on 2, z on 3.

Plus x workers on y geysers.

So you will have 1 table going from 6-24 workers on minerals, and another table with 1 geyser, 2 geysers, 3 geysers etc.

The beauty of this is you can mix and match until you find a combination of bases and workers you think you can handle since there are many possibilities of what you can do. You might find out, very easily, that your build is too gas heavy and has to be cut back.

. That way it gives you an idea of if you need an expansion or not,

SneakPeek
Profile Joined April 2010
Philippines162 Posts
October 11 2010 04:59 GMT
#20
... i dont get it. so basically you are using math to figure out how many workers you need for sustaining the amount of units you are having. therefore this shows when to get expansions. how bout teching up? and what to do when you are harassed at the mineral line? >.<"
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
00:30
FSL s10 retrospective
Liquipedia
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft414
ViBE205
RuFF_SC2 204
Nina 96
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6117
Sea 3478
sorry 66
Larva 48
Noble 9
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm119
League of Legends
JimRising 790
Counter-Strike
summit1g12943
taco 782
Other Games
C9.Mang0282
PiGStarcraft186
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1018
BasetradeTV64
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH369
• davetesta19
• practicex 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 103
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush811
• Stunt367
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
5h 29m
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Big Brain Bouts
11h 29m
Replay Cast
19h 29m
RSL Revival
1d 5h
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.