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On October 08 2010 16:18 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Congratulations, you went through an 8000 word post and picked out one single statement and are using it to counter the other 7800+ words on that thread.
If you don't like the stats, too bad, they are stats. I mentioned where the poll was done, and imo there is no better place in the world to poll Starcraft fans then TL.
If it does not meet your standards I am sorry, but it is what it is.
I'm not trying to counter anything.
I'm trying to yet again let you know that your tone in advocating these maps is confrontational, derisive, divisive, and unreasonable. I'd love to see user-made maps embraced by Blizzard, but it's not going to happen when you're so antagonistic in advocating them.
I'm not trying to start an argument with you.
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Diamond, with all due respect, you are rightfully emotional about this issue, but it might be clouding things a bit. Your attempts to explain that you are *not* arguing from authority boil down to "well these are the facts from SC1 and that is just how SC2 will work because I said so." (I mean I am playing devils advocate to some degree because of course the maps are important. Its an RTS game ffs!  )
Same with your logic for Metalopolis: "It simply IS old because I say so and I know a lot about maps. So there." Ok well the game hasn't actually been out for 7 months retail and I say Metalopolis is still fresh and awesome. So there 
You are stretching with your reddit thread timing and MMA "points" (what percentage of MMA fans are also MMA fighters? vs. what percentage of SC fans also play SC?) I already told my anecdotes about people who don't care about GSL and probably never will, so telling me "well they should care!" is just making my authority point again. The pros will of course drive the direction of the changes but the casual players simply don't care at all about those details.
Serious question: Do you think Blizzard is somehow unaware of the top pros opinions on 1v1 pool being shitty right now?
Cliff notes: Patience? At least see what the eSports patch entails and hear what the plans are for 2011 GSL map pools? There could be 4 more brand new maps in the pool tomorrow for all we know.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
You've just activated my Jungel Basin card!
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If these maps were exactly the same but called "iCCup Shakuras Plateau" and "iCCup Jungle Basin" everyone would praise how amazing they are.
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If these maps were exactly the same but called "iCCup Shakuras Plateau" and "iCCup Jungle Basin" everyone would praise how amazing they are.
so true.
and i love the new maps
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On October 09 2010 00:58 Kishime wrote:
If these maps were exactly the same but called "iCCup Shakuras Plateau" and "iCCup Jungle Basin" everyone would praise how amazing they are.
Haha that is so true.
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On October 08 2010 16:22 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 16:18 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Congratulations, you went through an 8000 word post and picked out one single statement and are using it to counter the other 7800+ words on that thread.
If you don't like the stats, too bad, they are stats. I mentioned where the poll was done, and imo there is no better place in the world to poll Starcraft fans then TL.
If it does not meet your standards I am sorry, but it is what it is. I'm not trying to counter anything. I'm trying to yet again let you know that your tone in advocating these maps is confrontational, derisive, divisive, and unreasonable. I'd love to see user-made maps embraced by Blizzard, but it's not going to happen when you're so antagonistic in advocating them. I'm not trying to start an argument with you.
I kind of agree that Diamonds original thread was overly confrontational. It just was. Diamond, you were angry. It is understandable.
But it was still a thread that needed to be made, and it was better that it be made in that way than not made at all.
Regardless of what people think of the Blizzard maps, and regardless of whether or not the Blizzard maps will, a year down the road, be realized as much better or much worse than the current opinion states, mapmaking is something that the community can contribute towards the furthering of SC2 as a sport.
What I've seen the iCCup team do over the past couple months is put who knows how many hours into making maps, only for these maps to not really be used, and nobody except for the TL people to really talk about them.
I know a few small scale tournaments have been using them, and I've been enjoying iCCups stream. I'm slowly starting to like Realcun more and more as a caster. He's just such a nice guy.
But the large scale tournaments aren't using them, none of the maps are very popular on Bnet, and Blizzard won't make any comment at all about what it thinks on community maps. I would like to see Blizzard say what they think a good map is. What they think good sizes should be. How much differentiation there should be in maps in a given pool. Etc. There's a thread like this on the Custom Maps forum here, talking about where cliffs should be, how many expansions there should be, how many squares a natural expansions choke should be, etc. I want to see if Blizzards opinions and TL's opinions match up.
Because if they don't, that would let custom mapmakers either say 'well Blizzard is wrong and this is why', or it would let them change their maps to something Blizzard, and by association the large scale tournaments that Blizzard has to authorize, might more readily accept. It wouldn't introduce custom maps overnight, but it would start the discussion.
With such talented people putting so much work towards their maps, the fact that there is literally no discussion between the game developers and the community mapmakers is upsetting to me. It just seems like a wasted opportunity on the part of Blizzard, and I am not sure what they are thinking.
Diamond has a reason to be angry, because it's not the first time he's tried to appeal to them. And the fact that they at least seemingly do not care is distressing. If I really wanted to help with something, and spent a lot of work trying to help, only to be basically completely ignored, I would be upset too.
It was a good thread. It needed to be made. And even though it's pretty clear that Blizzard is not going to respond to it, I don't think we should just give up. There's other things we can do to try to get them to listen, and at least acknowledge it.
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Am I the only one see Terrain nightmare with Void ray in shakuras plateau?
If spawn in Horziontal position, void ray has a free rock to charge up and it's damn close to mineral line.
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Canada1324 Posts
As a protoss, I love jungle basin. A free, easy to defend expansion, small ramp, and rocks to charge void rays.
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On October 09 2010 00:58 Kishime wrote:
If these maps were exactly the same but called "iCCup Shakuras Plateau" and "iCCup Jungle Basin" everyone would praise how amazing they are.
I'm not sure why, since only a couple of the iccup maps are actually good imho. I guess in general they're better than Blizzard maps though.
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I really really love the new map pool ^^.
I'm not sure why people are hating  .
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I kinda like shakuras plateuau because it has lots of expansions and by opening the rocks you have a nice layout. Also the middle is wide open but has some line of sight blockers <3.
But jungle basin is just.... As a zerg I haven`t found a good place for a third base yet. The middel is so freakin narrow you cannot surround or flank them. Also they´ll see every attempt coming from miles away because both paths have a watch tower.
Edit: I think jungle would be alot better if they removed the hole between the two watchtowers. I hate thoose two small paths so much.
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On October 09 2010 00:58 Kishime wrote:
If these maps were exactly the same but called "iCCup Shakuras Plateau" and "iCCup Jungle Basin" everyone would praise how amazing they are.
erm, no.
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Not sure if this has been said already (just kind of skimmed the last 34 pages) but I THINK there's a tank imbalance on Shakuras Plateau.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
If someone can confirm or deny this, that would be great, thanks. Basically the idea is that you can't hit an adjacent vertical position's geyser unless you're in the top left.
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1400 Z
Went 4-0 last night on Jungle. Liking it right now, though that could change.
Went 0-1 last night on Shakura. Seems tankcentric. I like both better than Kulas.
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I really really miss Kulas, I recently thumbs upped it on teh ladder and I was really enjoying it... The new ones, to be honest, are pretty mediocre
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On October 09 2010 02:49 Animostas wrote:Not sure if this has been said already (just kind of skimmed the last 34 pages) but I THINK there's a tank imbalance on Shakuras Plateau. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +If someone can confirm or deny this, that would be great, thanks. Basically the idea is that you can't hit an adjacent vertical position's geyser unless you're in the top left.
Apparently vertical positions cannot exist in this map, the only valid spawns are horizontal or diagonal.
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Seriously? Well, that's sort of a clever way to introduce a 2v2 map into the 1v1 map pool.
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I'm a zerg player and i feel like Shakuras plataeu favors zerg. The NE is very close by and it only takes 1 creep to basically reach the NE. The Map is pretty huge for walking distance because you have to go through the middle. Toss and Terran don't't have a good place to make a 3rd expansion. If they do make a 3rd expansion they'd have to split up their troops.
IMO Muta/ling or Nydus is pretty good on this map and I don't feel like i have to rush to defend my NE most of the time.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vi/164.jpg)
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