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Estonia4504 Posts
On October 06 2010 19:12 grudgeStar wrote:
The only reason SC1 is harder then SC2 is because SC1 units act like they are mentally challenged.
Ooh look, I told my drone to go mine, ohh snap, he's gonna run 15 laps around the base before he starts.
"Sup, im a bw player, im better then you cuz i mastered the worst ai in the history of videogames."
Which leads to flanks and catching otherwise superior armies out of position. Even Flash lines up his marines in a lot of games, which adds an interesting layer of gameplay. Not speaking of MBS or walling in or using actual micro tricks instead of auto-surround, but they also contributed to it's hardness.
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What a load of rubbish, how dare he diss the players and the game
He loved the game when he, every game would set up a 2x bunkers, expand, then slow down the oppossing player forcing him to waste workers and ressources to break through while he would salavage his bunkers, run his marines back and expand himself
He did this EVERY GODDAMN GAME, then people figured it out and he beat the snot out of him becuase he could not adapt and he had no other strategy, that was all he had, those 2 bunkers at the start.
No wonder he quit, losing 59 of your 68 matches cant be fun
He simply could not play straight up against any of the top players, he couldnt even handle 4-5 Phoenix's from Socke, he could not handle a damn thing
He is the epitome of a gimmick player: find a strat that works and keep doing it, eventually people figure you and your one trick pony ass out and beat you with ease.
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Kinda agree w/him. its a real struggle to keep playing this game
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 06 2010 18:38 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 18:28 TyrantPotato wrote:On October 06 2010 18:17 Half wrote:I agree on your last point as well: Give it time. I think the game is going to change over time as things get tested and discovered. Like Phasing? Like Mineral Boosting? Like Infestor Burrow Casting? THIS!!!!! i believe blizzards attitude to removing these "bugs" rather then leaving them in is what in the long run will kill sc2. for example instead of removing fazing, why not slightly reduce void rays uncharged damage and keep it in. that way you can see clutch battles that the pros can pull off that if done well enough can pull games around. it wasnt gamebreaking at all. it just allowed for top level players to use to turn battles around. mineral boosting. it never was an issue, no one ever lost games because their opponent used it and they didnt. honestly no reason to remove it. or at least put it into the low priority basket (along with balancing zerg *wink* infestor burrow casting as well. its SOO apm intensive that it would be great for top level play to see it being pulled off to turn games around. BUT NO some scrub winge'd along with all their low level friends on the bnet forums and got their way. every time these nifty little features pops up it gets removed right away. imagine BW without muta stacking, vulture patrol micro, valkryie patrol micro and such. these small little ai "bugs: made the game what it was. and blizzard is removing them left right and centre, which eventually will kill sc2. Fazing obviously did way too much damage, something had to change. Mineral boosting, I agree, didn't really serve a purpose to begin with. Burrowed casting was NOT APM intensive. All it took was a simple queue of 2 or 3 clicks. Unburrowing to cast it takes 2 clicks and you CAN'T queue it, that's just as impressive. If you liked that you'll love it when Terrans figure out how to have flying planetary fortresses.
FLYING planetary fortresses??
For a second I thought this was an unknown bug 
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 06 2010 19:12 grudgeStar wrote:
The only reason SC1 is harder then SC2 is because SC1 units act like they are mentally challenged.
Ooh look, I told my drone to go mine, ohh snap, he's gonna run 15 laps around the base before he starts.
"Sup, im a bw player, im better then you cuz i mastered the worst ai in the history of videogames."
To be honest, pathing AI in SC2 is pretty fucking retarded too. Trying to walk past units or obstacles can be a challenge with workers.
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On October 06 2010 19:18 Raevin wrote:
What a load of rubbish, how dare he diss the players and the game
He loved the game when he, every game would set up a 2x bunkers, expand, then slow down the oppossing player forcing him to waste workers and ressources to break through while he would salavage his bunkers, run his marines back and expand himself
He did this EVERY GODDAMN GAME, then people figured it out and he beat the snot out of him becuase he could not adapt and he had no other strategy, that was all he had, those 2 bunkers at the start.
No wonder he quit, losing 59 of your 68 matches cant be fun
He simply could not play straight up against any of the top players, he couldnt even handle 4-5 Phoenix's from Socke, he could not handle a damn thing
He is the epitome of a gimmick player: find a strat that works and keep doing it, eventually people figure you and your one trick pony ass out and beat you with ease.
Somehow I have to agree with this. I've been playing against him on my own and I've faced this every time I met him. The game is new, you have to test everything, every BO. If it's good, you might play it, if it gets countered, you change something. There is no point to whine since it's just a beggining. If you don't like the game or it doesn't give you any fun, you can quit, nobody is asking someone to play. So its our decision if we want to play competetively or not. If you do, you need to spend A LOT of time to succeed.
Good Luck, NTT~
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People who still say Idra was a whiner hasnt read this one :D.
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On October 06 2010 16:21 Cashout wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 16:18 Piski wrote:
I don't understand people rage quitting saying the game is too easy but not actually accomplishing anything.
I remember NTT from bw days and I was even excited that he was playing SC2. That said I can't remember him doing anything worth mentioning in SC2, but I could be wrong.
Is the game easier than bw? Well hell yes, but not easy enough that just anyone could go to a tournament and win it. game is easy =/= easy to win
See that's the mentality I don't get. Some BW players honestly seem to treat this less like a chess match with explosions and more like a Rubik's Cube solving contest. Yeah, it's pretty impressive if someone has good macro but I really find a strategy game is far more interesting when you're seeing TLO force a tank retreat with a nuke that gets cancelled as his own tanks siege up.
Cool, you can manually send workers to minerals on four bases and shuffle through 9 factories and 3 starports. Logistics is not exactly the most thrilling part of war.
Saying that SC2 is a bad game because the setup to having your armies is more streamlined is like saying chess is a bad game because any five year old could physically move a rook forward three spaces.
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To the people who don't know him: I absolutely loved his play when he was a good BW player. Very macro-based, but also very timing-based. I watched a great deal of his battlereports.com (and later replays when those became available) and to me he was one of the 'big' foreigners before everything got smoothed out, in the same group with Tsunami, GGSlayer, Grrrr etc.
So while his post is mostly rant, I'm still interested in his points. Especially the time management part...
edit: Thinking of it, one of the ways he'd beat players was to out-macro them so hard they had no clue what to do. He'd get 5 bases at the time you'd get 1, be outnumbered army-wise, but he'd count on you not having enough concentration to keep up scouting and levelling bases all over the map, and then catch up and beat you. That's certainly become harder in sc2...
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On October 06 2010 19:40 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 16:21 Cashout wrote:On October 06 2010 16:18 Piski wrote:
I don't understand people rage quitting saying the game is too easy but not actually accomplishing anything.
I remember NTT from bw days and I was even excited that he was playing SC2. That said I can't remember him doing anything worth mentioning in SC2, but I could be wrong.
Is the game easier than bw? Well hell yes, but not easy enough that just anyone could go to a tournament and win it. game is easy =/= easy to win See that's the mentality I don't get. Some BW players honestly seem to treat this less like a chess match with explosions and more like a Rubik's Cube solving contest. Yeah, it's pretty impressive if someone has good macro but I really find a strategy game is far more interesting when you're seeing TLO force a tank retreat with a nuke that gets cancelled as his own tanks siege up. Cool, you can manually send workers to minerals on four bases and shuffle through 9 factories and 3 starports. Logistics is not exactly the most thrilling part of war. Saying that SC2 is a bad game because the setup to having your armies is more streamlined is like saying chess is a bad game because any five year old could physically move a rook forward three spaces.
The Chess comparison is so far off base whenever someone does it it's actually scary. Just stop please. It's a little bit disgusting.
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noooo! i wanted to see some NTT action coming back to sc2! ;(
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On October 06 2010 19:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 18:38 urashimakt wrote:On October 06 2010 18:28 TyrantPotato wrote:On October 06 2010 18:17 Half wrote:I agree on your last point as well: Give it time. I think the game is going to change over time as things get tested and discovered. Like Phasing? Like Mineral Boosting? Like Infestor Burrow Casting? THIS!!!!! i believe blizzards attitude to removing these "bugs" rather then leaving them in is what in the long run will kill sc2. for example instead of removing fazing, why not slightly reduce void rays uncharged damage and keep it in. that way you can see clutch battles that the pros can pull off that if done well enough can pull games around. it wasnt gamebreaking at all. it just allowed for top level players to use to turn battles around. mineral boosting. it never was an issue, no one ever lost games because their opponent used it and they didnt. honestly no reason to remove it. or at least put it into the low priority basket (along with balancing zerg *wink* infestor burrow casting as well. its SOO apm intensive that it would be great for top level play to see it being pulled off to turn games around. BUT NO some scrub winge'd along with all their low level friends on the bnet forums and got their way. every time these nifty little features pops up it gets removed right away. imagine BW without muta stacking, vulture patrol micro, valkryie patrol micro and such. these small little ai "bugs: made the game what it was. and blizzard is removing them left right and centre, which eventually will kill sc2. Fazing obviously did way too much damage, something had to change. Mineral boosting, I agree, didn't really serve a purpose to begin with. Burrowed casting was NOT APM intensive. All it took was a simple queue of 2 or 3 clicks. Unburrowing to cast it takes 2 clicks and you CAN'T queue it, that's just as impressive. If you liked that you'll love it when Terrans figure out how to have flying planetary fortresses. FLYING planetary fortresses?? For a second I thought this was an unknown bug
???!!???? Show plz so I can surprise someone with it.
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Why even debate BW vs SC2, it seems many of you do not even know how NTT played SC2?
He was a gimmicky player, he had the exact same oppening every match with 2 bunkers, fast expand and like i posted once people figured this out they beat him with very little difficulty.
You are giving too much credit to a player who was more focused on winning rather than learning new strats and trying out different things, once his one and only oppening stopped working, he started losing
That is really the bottom line, instead of blaming himself and his lack of desire to learn he has decided to blast the game instead and call others for "cheesing" when he himself is the epitome of it.
No player in the history of Brood War, Warcraft 3 and surely SC2 was able to stick to 1 single strat and keep doing it forever, they all got caught with their pants down and beaten on until they either quit or learned new tricks.
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On October 06 2010 19:43 Numy wrote:
The Chess comparison is so far off base whenever someone does it it's actually scary. Just stop please. It's a little bit disgusting.
It's really not my fault you're incapable of understanding what an analogy is.
I'm not saying SC2 is chess. I'm saying it's more about strategy than mechanics learned by rote.
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I think it is a pretty natural phenomenon that some former greats that went back to SC2 competetively now quit the game. But I guess this is less to the fact that the game itself is lacking but more because they do not belong to the very best of the contemporary player pool and thus they have more to loose than to gain. I think remembering the "glorious old days" where you used to reign the bnet wheras now it`s difficult to stand out skillwise must be a demotivating feeling.
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This guy is almost as old as WhiteRa. I'm 24 and I feel like my hands are already irredeemably slow. There had been this age limit of 28 on floors of stock markets long before pro gaming was established. That is because scientists calculated that a broker's mechanical reaction dramatically slows down after the age of 28.
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The game just requires a different set of skills. The skills which made him good at sc1 are useless in sc2. So he rages.
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Its simply impossible to please everyone. His point about maps is correct but everything else I disagree with.
I say, good riddance.
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On October 06 2010 19:35 arew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 19:18 Raevin wrote:
What a load of rubbish, how dare he diss the players and the game
He loved the game when he, every game would set up a 2x bunkers, expand, then slow down the oppossing player forcing him to waste workers and ressources to break through while he would salavage his bunkers, run his marines back and expand himself
He did this EVERY GODDAMN GAME, then people figured it out and he beat the snot out of him becuase he could not adapt and he had no other strategy, that was all he had, those 2 bunkers at the start.
No wonder he quit, losing 59 of your 68 matches cant be fun
He simply could not play straight up against any of the top players, he couldnt even handle 4-5 Phoenix's from Socke, he could not handle a damn thing
He is the epitome of a gimmick player: find a strat that works and keep doing it, eventually people figure you and your one trick pony ass out and beat you with ease. Somehow I have to agree with this. I've been playing against him on my own and I've faced this every time I met him. The game is new, you have to test everything, every BO. If it's good, you might play it, if it gets countered, you change something. There is no point to whine since it's just a beggining. If you don't like the game or it doesn't give you any fun, you can quit, nobody is asking someone to play. So its our decision if we want to play competetively or not. If you do, you need to spend A LOT of time to succeed. Good Luck, NTT~
Didn't know you were playing Arew! One of my favorite BW foreign Protosses :D
Anyways, people have said it, some of us have seen it, and no one should be surprised given NTT's history of shittalking and his attempt to abuse a build.
Not really newsworthy, as he hadn't really done much, although he had made Q2 for IEM Europeans, facing White-Ra tomorrow. Wonder whether he'll play that out or not.
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Easy games get boring quickly. Referring to Terran here of course. I've seen many Terrans leave because all they do is get the "correct" build order. And of course I mean MMM of any sort.
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EPT
