EPTcalling NTT an newb? fuck you, and i saw someone saying that NTT havent done anything notable in SC? well he got 3rd place in WCG in 2000-2001. anyway, most people wont ever get the chance to compete in WCG, and only few manage to grab a medal.
NTT quits Starcraft 2 (?) - Page 15
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lungo
Denmark276 Posts
calling NTT an newb? fuck you, and i saw someone saying that NTT havent done anything notable in SC? well he got 3rd place in WCG in 2000-2001. anyway, most people wont ever get the chance to compete in WCG, and only few manage to grab a medal. | ||
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AcOrP
Bulgaria148 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:18 floor exercise wrote: But all these things you just listed require much higher levels of execution than anything in SC2, in a game that overall requires significantly higher multitasking. I mean all you've accomplished here is listing a number of the awesome things in BW that were more difficult to pull of both independently and in the context of their respective games. You're basically proving NTT's point I can do all of those things in sc1 and i'm an awful awful sc1 player, why am i a bad sc1 player? because i spend all of my time watching sc1 instead of playing it, and i have about 8 hours of actual game time. while i have countless hours watching it. You can add a foot pedal to sc1, and in order to click anything you have to push the foot pedal and click at exactly the same moment. does it add difficulty? yes. does it add needless tasks? yes. does it raise a skill cap? for people who've never played, yes, for anyone playing the game? no. Muscle memory is the flaw with the "the mechanics add difficulty" argument. once you practice enough you just automatically do stuff. kind of like how sc2 will automatically do stuff for you now. pretty much they removed the 100+ hours of practice you needed for muscle memory alone and thats it. yeah its a skill cap if you are starting a game. but at the top level no pro is struggling because they can't do the actions. they all have the muscle memory. | ||
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
Making a game easier doesnt mean that he/me/someone else need to own everyone to prove this, it just means that it is way harder to be a good/dominant player since it is way harder to make something better than your opponent. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
NTT always was one of the most bm ppl around, hated the guy already back on kali seems like he couldnt take losing against ppl that he deemed inferior to him... which basically means almost anybody User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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iRRelevance
Romania725 Posts
I've always liked NTT's bw style, but now he just fails to adapt. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
I'm interested in seeing where SC2 would be when that happens. For example, based on Blizzard maps, I think Terran is pretty ridiculous at times. When I look at ICCup maps though, I think Protoss is pretty crazy. Whether it's just players don't know how to play the custom maps or not is something to consider. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
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Achilles
Canada385 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:18 floor exercise wrote: But all these things you just listed require much higher levels of execution than anything in SC2, in a game that overall requires significantly higher multitasking. I mean all you've accomplished here is listing a number of the awesome things in BW that were more difficult to pull of both independently and in the context of their respective games. You're basically proving NTT's point So you're telling me that stuff like Void Ray charge micro or blinking hurt Stalkers is significantly less difficult than BW micro stuff? I don't buy that. If everything was so easy, then why has only FruitDealer been capable of all these SC2 zerg tasks that 'require significantly lower multitasking'? Shouldn't the lower skill ceiling mean that tons of Zergs would be doing all that stuff? Oh wait, Day9 can't even larvae inject and spread creep consistently yet and he's a former top tier BW player. Or if we're talking Terran, shouldn't the lower skill ceiling have helped Rainbow beat Fruit in spite of playing significantly worse? | ||
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Endbringer
United States111 Posts
You can talk all day about how auto-mine and MBS are crutches to poor play but the fact is if blizzard had thought of it in Sc1 it would be in that game was well. I played Sc1 the day it came out (that's right kiddies, I am 29) and it was a great game back then. I remember the day Broodwar came out, another great game. That does not take anything away from Sc2. Broodwar was an awesome game, and the biggest esports game ever. Will Sc2 measure up to that? It remains to be seen. That aside, whining about MBS and skill ceiling is pathetic. What you think are amazing mechanics are actually artificial limitations put on play. Personally I don't want to play a game that fights against me, I want to play a game that works with me. All I hear from conservatives (that's what you guys are, face it) is that Sc2 has no micro, only gimmicks, a la blink, muling, etc. Well guess what, Broodwar has no mechanics, all it has are gimmicks, a la no auto-mining or MBS. Its the same issue, both have abilities (or lack of ability) that force you to do more work to get your units to work effectively. That's fine because they are Different games. Stop crying because Broodwar is hemorrhaging players. Its going to happen whether you want it to or not. I played CS competitively for many many years. The best CS version by far was 1.3. There was no delay in jumping, recoil was much harder to control. That's when the skill was the highest. You know how many leagues use 1.3 now? You know how few people even remember it? Progress marches on, you can ignore it and continue with what you love, or you can get on board. If you try to stop it by standing in front and screaming about how much better the past was, you are just going to get run over. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:31 iRRelevance wrote: What's this kali everyone speaks about ? I've always liked NTT's bw style, but now he just fails to adapt. kali was a platform to play games that didnt support tcp/ip over the internet like warcraft 2 so when starcraft came out some war2 players that wanted to be extra cool and old school stayed on kali and kept playing starcraft there and built on their superiority complex compared to regular b.net players it was fun playing there for a while (before it became afk city), but kali always seemed to spawn arrogant elitist pricks like NTT who thought they are so much better than anyone else just cuz they play on kali so fun rememberin those days, i guess if basically everyone playing the game is around 18 elitism evolves even more easily some ppl never change tho | ||
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Iest
Canada7 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:16 Meatloaf wrote: manual worker splitting in starcraft vanilla was a fcken pain in the ass as well as many other limitations the game had and some people claim they were the real "cool mechanic aspect of SC1" some ppl keep talking as if most of this issues were intended features of starcraft I when it clearly was a limitation of the game (and also almost all RTS games when SC1 was out...). IMHO Games are meant to be played. Oh my God, that was painful to read. Don't you think Blizzard could've patched these "limitations" ANY TIME THEY WANTED? It's INTENDED. The game is harder this way. | ||
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:31 iRRelevance wrote: What's this kali everyone speaks about ? I've always liked NTT's bw style, but now he just fails to adapt. I think you mean conform. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:44 Iest wrote: Oh my God, that was painful to read. Don't you think Blizzard could've patched these "limitations" ANY TIME THEY WANTED? It's INTENDED. The game is harder this way. yeah but MBS etc in sc2 is also INTENDED. its to shift the skill cap away from being 17 and able to have 300 apm to out-thinking your opponent you know, the "strategy" in RTS. otherwise it would be a "real time click as fast as you can game" if you want that, go play some mouse precision browser game and brag to your friends how fast you can click | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
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Rakanishu2
United States475 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:49 0neder wrote: The only complaint we can accurately say NTT has is the map one. Agreed. So are we supposed to bow in reverence of this guy? Goes drama all over and quits? I'm sad for the people who pop out in his defense, are you doing it just to be different? | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On October 06 2010 23:18 floor exercise wrote: But all these things you just listed require much higher levels of execution than anything in SC2, in a game that overall requires significantly higher multitasking. I mean all you've accomplished here is listing a number of the awesome things in BW that were more difficult to pull of both independently and in the context of their respective games. You're basically proving NTT's point May I ask if you watched sanZenith vs oGsInCa (GSL) ? I see players who have good mechanics constantly lose the VR charge. Seems like players at their caliber dont have the mechanics/APM to execute that in SC2. Warp-In gimmick? Yeah probably, but it comes the closest to BW without MBS. "Click Building with mouse, hit hotkey" vs "Hit hotkey, click place to warpin with mouse". I dont want to argue that BW was more mechanical demanding than SC2 - it clearly was. But can we really say that we have reached the skill ceiling already? I mean - SC2 has been out for ~2months. Add another ~4months for Beta. Compare this to years of practice & developing tactics/strategies in BW. Look at 7% mineral boosting. That was discovered not even a month ago (yes I know it was patched) - can we say for sure that we discovered everything in the game yet? What about the upcoming expansions? Maybe they add APM intensive units. As someone already said - use the freed up APM to do more stuff. Surround enemies per hand - it's more effective than letting the AI do it (though the AI is better than the BW AI). I also havent seen a player do simultaneous drops (maybe Boxer). Everyone else is like "ok I drop on this side of the map, ok everything died. Let's drop on the other side of the map". But nothing at the same time (if I am wrong please tell me the games - I love to watch that style of play). I see the point though that having more free APM the diversity of the playstyles might suffer. Edit: Yeah maps suck of course | ||
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