EPTThats one badass guy, and I have to agree that the game isn't as apm requiring as BW and I personally find it quite frustrating seeing players like for example sjow who wins tournaments with his measly 80-90 apm.
NTT quits Starcraft 2 (?) - Page 12
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powernapper
Italy21 Posts
Thats one badass guy, and I have to agree that the game isn't as apm requiring as BW and I personally find it quite frustrating seeing players like for example sjow who wins tournaments with his measly 80-90 apm. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On October 06 2010 21:37 IShowUMagic wrote: As someone who just lost a game because a kid 2 bases behind me built 5 void rays and steamrolled 3 hatches and a mass of mutas, I agree that there are too many gimmicks in this game. Then you are doing something wrong and it ain't the gimmick of voidrays that killed you if he only had 5 voidrays, 1 base, and you had 3 bases and mutas. On October 06 2010 19:18 Raevin wrote: What a load of rubbish, how dare he diss the players and the game He loved the game when he, every game would set up a 2x bunkers, expand, then slow down the oppossing player forcing him to waste workers and ressources to break through while he would salavage his bunkers, run his marines back and expand himself He did this EVERY GODDAMN GAME, then people figured it out and he beat the snot out of him becuase he could not adapt and he had no other strategy, that was all he had, those 2 bunkers at the start. No wonder he quit, losing 59 of your 68 matches cant be fun He simply could not play straight up against any of the top players, he couldnt even handle 4-5 Phoenix's from Socke, he could not handle a damn thing He is the epitome of a gimmick player: find a strat that works and keep doing it, eventually people figure you and your one trick pony ass out and beat you with ease. Quoting this because people love to ignore the voice of reason. | ||
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
On October 06 2010 21:37 IShowUMagic wrote: As someone who just lost a game because a kid 2 bases behind me built 5 void rays and steamrolled 3 hatches and a mass of mutas, I agree that there are too many gimmicks in this game. Let me translate. You're a newbie and thus aren't really good yet. And then there was this game you got steamrolled. Then you searched for something to whine about and found this thread. Congratulations! | ||
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
I've seen this happen already with other games that get a huge revamp like Starcraft did. Not all oldschool pros are broad-minded enough to understand that it is a new game, and that the good strategies and elements of the game are not yet uncovered. These kinds of arguments seem to be "right", but they actually aren't. They're comparing the two games on the same fundamentals, but doing so actually doesn't make sense. It's a shame, because oldschool pros deserve a lot of respect and have huge potential to become great (if not the best) players in the new game, but sometimes they throw it all away due to this misconception. Take a look at what happened with the fighting games Immaterial and Missing Power > Touhou Hisoutensoku. the company releases the first game, and it is awesome; with a competitive scene and all that a good game needs. Then Scarlet Weather Rhapsody comes, which is a great concept of a fighting game/card game hybrid, but unfortunately the game is awful due mostly to bad move design (good concept, badly executed). The IaMP scene waits patiently until the SWR expansion, Touhou Hisoutensoku, is released, and when it comes out it is a huge step in making the game better. Tasogare Frontier (the doujin circle which made these games) promises a huge patch that would even change some character's movesets entirely in order to make the game better. When HTS patch 1.10 comes out the game is awesome, balanced, fun to play and to watch with amazing "WHOA" moments. The tier list reverses entirely after every single tournament due to new strategies being discovered; the "card game" component of the game enhancing the game depth immensely. Then most of the old IaMP scene pros suddenly ragequit the new game, because: - they were actually waiting for the new features of HTS such as Flight and Border Escapes to be completely removed in order to make it "IaMP 2". And they're tired of waiting it. - they didn't like the fighting game / card game hybrid concept (but this is the core of the new game, there's no way this would be changed - and it is a great concept). - according to them the game is mechanically easy, and blame it on the lack of bugs and new combo system - but this is due to the game being new, as the game is getting much harder each passing day - gimmicky play is still strong, as counters to them had not yet been discovered (such as Suika keep-away and massive card drawing into Missing Purple Power under some favorable weather, like typhoon for example. Try this against any character today and you'll be roflstomped) - they didn't like the new HTS community (they were right about this, but these communities get better as the game becomes harder to learn and people grow up) So far I've noticed a few symptoms in SC:BW > SC2 that are similar to the IaMP > HTS transition. I just hope that since SC has more players, more pros, and more money involved in it, that people are more level-headed and patient with it. beacuse I'd be seriously disappointed if the same happened with another good game with great potential such as SC2. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
That is the skill differential at the high level, nobody will complement a guy on his amazing macro "wow look at him hotkey his 7 raxxes and pump out units without looking at his base". Its more like "Wow look at him hiding that stargate and making 6 void rays to kill his opponent, beautiful move!". Then again this is what we have and this is what we gotta accept. Starcraft 2 is made for the masses and simplifying it was a step Blizzard had to take to make it more popular. There's no way around it. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 06 2010 21:44 JinDesu wrote: Then you are doing something wrong and it ain't the gimmick of voidrays that killed you if he only had 5 voidrays, 1 base, and you had 3 bases and mutas. Quoting this because people love to ignore the voice of reason. You mean the voice of raevin  | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On October 06 2010 21:30 Amadi wrote: --Lots of words-- ---------- See, starcraft 2 is not chess. In chess you see your opponent, have ample time to do your choices and do a lot of brainwork to know the possible situations eight rounds in advance. In starcraft 2, you have a hidden component, which you want to hide, forcing your opponent to play blind with their hidden component. Starcraft 2 is more like poker. Sure, it has counters. Full house beats a pair, you know? Only difference in SC2 would be that pair actually beats a Royal Flush, creating a nice little circle. Having automatic transmission doesn't make you a worse driver, but given different skill levels, it is easier to tell which one of the drivers is the better one if they are driving with manual, rather than automatic. On a completely side note, I just imagined this and want it forever gone from my head. | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
And who is NTT? | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On October 06 2010 20:56 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: but look at the collosus for example. it "replaced" the reaver. the reaver required huge amounts of micro to do well and you could do AMAZING stuff with it. not even talking about the huge excitement of scarabs chasing a bunch of scvs or whatever. no we have the collosus. a insanely powerful unit thats only downside is that it can be hit by air. its mobily,has a huge range ,rapes evrything on ground and requires pretty much zero control at all. the only thing "cool" about it are the shiny lasers. when a unit gets so dumbed down that the only cool thing about it are lazers and a monkey could control it then yes, instead of trying to build on what made bw so amazing they are doing stuff for the 13 year old farmville guy that just wants to rightclick and see stuff explode. That is so wrong I don't know why you would even say it. You seriously expect a colossus that is right clicked towards the enemy by a monkey or 13 yr old farmville player to accomplish anything? You don't consider it a downside that it's fragile, because of its size extremely easy to targetfire, and needs a huge escort and/or a bunch of forcefields because otherwise most ground units, melee or ranged, will take it down immediately? What was exciting about reavers was what a good player could accomplish with them although they were dumb and slow. Do you want blizz to intentionally make units that are dumb and slow? High level reaver play also made for exciting moments because of the luck factor. A scarab could kill 12 SCVs or none at all, when it randomly decided to bug out, and in many situations there's only time for one or two shots. You want a potentially game-deciding luck factor like that in SC2? How can you complain about a low skill cap and then advocate a unit the performance of which is luck based to a larger extent than that of any other unit in the game? The colossus, on the other hand, is only "insanely powerful" when the enemy units are arranged in a line that is hit by the side-to-side-sweep of its lasers, which is predictable and will happen when these units are a-moved towards the colossus. A line along the laser sweep = bad, a line approximating a right angle to the laser sweep = good; the colossus will only hit one or two units per shot. This is something both players can and must work with, the outcome depends very much on positioning and micro. An a-moved colossus won't accomplish any more than an a-moved reaver. Both will in most situations get off one shot, maybe two, and die. To me it really sounds like you make your judgment without even trying to make something work first. I'm watching quite a lot of games (including top level games) and find it clear that colossus aren't anywhere near being used to their full potential. Start complaining about a low skill cap when tournament players stop dying to one control group syndrome left and right. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
Not tryin to flame, just sayin my personal opinion on the game is very.. simliar to his... | ||
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Gaxton
Sweden2328 Posts
But i dont expect a game that has evolved/been figured out for 10 years, to meet the standards of a game that has been out for 2 months. Give SC2 some more time, lets see what Nada/July will come up with in GSL2 etc. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4332 Posts
There will never be another rts in history that doesn't have MBS , mass-select or other stuff to make the game easier.As witnessed in the reviews most of the reviewers seem to think SC2 is already 'dated' since it still uses the basic mine minerals build base kill enemy as seen in Dune 2.Most other modern RTS games try to break new ground with different play mechanics , no game will ever be as close to BW as SC2 will be. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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nimbim
Germany984 Posts
His match history makes pretty clear what annoys him. Everyone has been angry in his life before (...) and I assume you know, that anger does not correlate with logic very much. In fact, people tend to blame everything but themselves for things that do not work as anticipated. Someone claimed this is NTT's smurf account. Can anyone confirm/deny? | ||
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Amadi
Finland139 Posts
On October 06 2010 22:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: NTT was one of the best players around a decade ago but the thing is the closest modern game to starcraft is starcraft 2. There will never be another rts in history that doesn't have MBS , mass-select or other stuff to make the game easier.As witnessed in the reviews most of the reviewers seem to think SC2 is already 'dated' since it still uses the basic mine minerals build base kill enemy as seen in Dune 2.Most other modern RTS games try to break new ground with different play mechanics , no game will ever be as close to BW as SC2 will be. And that is why there hasn't been a good "chess 2" ever released. | ||
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DarkspearTribe
568 Posts
On October 06 2010 16:00 TellMeWhy wrote: tread softly thread goers, decemberTV is clearly NTT's lover. Remember that Idra spends 1 hour a day watching DecemberTV stream + Show Spoiler + not | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On October 06 2010 22:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: NTT was one of the best players around a decade ago but the thing is the closest modern game to starcraft is starcraft 2. There will never be another rts in history that doesn't have MBS , mass-select or other stuff to make the game easier.As witnessed in the reviews most of the reviewers seem to think SC2 is already 'dated' since it still uses the basic mine minerals build base kill enemy as seen in Dune 2.Most other modern RTS games try to break new ground with different play mechanics , no game will ever be as close to BW as SC2 will be. There's a lot of truth in that with the direction the gaming industry is going. I'm sure there will be some developer that comes along and tries to modernize Brood War, but as it stands right now. Developers aren't trying to cater to the hardcore RTS players because everyone else will get too frustrated and think its a step in the wrong direction when there can be some positives to take out of it. Only thing is, how do you market it to the general audience? You got to make some mistakes before you can have progression. We'll see what comes out of this. | ||
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DueleR
United States207 Posts
I started playing SC in 1999/2000, he was one of the players I really looked up to back then. He was a dick, but also quite a funny guy, and he backed up his talk by being very, very good. He kind of disappeared for a long time so I was really happy to see him back in SC2, a shame that he's quitting so soon. | ||
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
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