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On September 23 2010 01:40 Cheeryohs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:22 HyperDeath wrote:On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. lol, true i guess i dont watch enough ZvZ. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). i know right, also, 10 armor on a light unit. how was this not fixed yet? You guys both need to please know what you are talking about before you speak. If the zerg can have their larvae easily killed, how do you propose they make any units? Thats like a Thor being produced from a foctory to be able to be destroyed before it spawns. That's all I have to say about your opinions that seem to be void of any truth.
Dude. They were being sarcastic. 'Nerf larva' is the default sarcastic 'What will Blizzard nerf about Zerg next' joke.
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On September 23 2010 01:42 SlowBlink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:40 Cheeryohs wrote:On September 23 2010 01:22 HyperDeath wrote:On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. lol, true i guess i dont watch enough ZvZ. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). i know right, also, 10 armor on a light unit. how was this not fixed yet? You guys both need to please know what you are talking about before you speak. If the zerg can have their larvae easily killed, how do you propose they make any units? Thats like a Thor being produced from a foctory to be able to be destroyed before it spawns. That's all I have to say about your opinions that seem to be void of any truth. About the ultralisk splash. I feel that this is definitely going to be easily abused. I for one did not mind the ram ability when hitting builds, my problem with the ultralisk is that the AI is terrible. I feel like im trying to control a few dragoons from BW with my lumbering beasts. The ultra should not be getting stuck and confused behind 3 or 4 lings... I feel that blizz should give ultras the ability to walk over zerglings, similar to the effect of the collossus, but only with zerglings. Heck, it can kill the lings in the process, but dang man, that unit is so difficult to get to the front lines if there is any sort of choke. Sarcasm broseph, learn it. I literally just called larvae OP and you took my post seriously.
I am sorry about that, I truly did think you were serious. All the stupidity in some of the posts have poisoned my though process and any silly comments I take seriously.
Do you guys think that this splash damage was a mistake in the coding, or did Blizzard acctually mean for it to be like this?
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Still not sure how something so glaring can escape Blizzard QA. It seems like such an obvious thing to test for.
Also having AOE splash originate at the center of the target instead of point of impact, I am sure it's done for balancing reasons, but it still looks silly, especially vs. really fast units. Seems like it would be more dynamic to have it at the point of impact, but I am sure they have their reasons.
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On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!!
This AoE vs Thors is the same size as it was before except Ultralisk damage was nerfed. You have 7 posts in this thread you should be a little better informed.
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On September 22 2010 23:21 Woozyman wrote:
God I'm not surprise noob terrans are crying QQ and keep on pointed out "Blizzard said it's a bug!". God forbid having terrans suffers a little imbalance issue. All I can say is that Blizzard was totally smart buffing Toss and Zerg in beta stage, so they can go with their real plan on buffing Terrans once the game is official to reap in profits... that is from having amateur playing sc2 (because the campaign is terran) get HOOKED on ladder thinking they ALL PRO when they just playing the most easiest race. What better way to gain customer loyalty --> long term profits by having the average JOE feeling like a god when he's blinded by the fact that he is only that much good and the rest is because terran is EASY.
If blizzard wanted to balance things right, what they could do is Make the dmg taken reduce at the edge of AOE. In other words, most dmg comes from the center of the AOE. That way they don't totally nerf the concept of being able to run over the imba/easy/noob 30 SVC repairing PF. If they completely remove AOE then props for Blizz keeping terrans IMBA. Making the AOE dmg at the tip of the attacking point of Ultras instead of around the structure that is attacked will make QQ terrans happy. However we're still back to the initial problem of PFs being IMBA.
These same QQ terrans will say "u guys should shut up coz we're actually helping you guys out"... as the AOE BUG is for ALL STRUCTURES not just PFs.
Sorry but you forgot the point of using PF in the example, it's because it's the most dangerous structure that can dmg AOE as well and be repaired.
Given that Zerg is clearly underpowered pre patch (see top 200, GSL, ..) and i am frequently loosing as a 60 APM zerg against 15 APM ubernoobs (doing some simple "build 30 marines and drop"), a strong buff is necessary.. we'll see if zerg gets overpowered by that in the coming month's :-D
I love the inflated sense of self worth that zerg players have.
"well 12 out of the top 20 ladderers are terran therefore I'm plahying the hard race therefore i can talk down to everyone that plays terran.
PLLLZ banhammer these people. it is neither inteligent or civil discussion.
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Have already tried on my skin the new ultra bug and besides me having a bad all around game, I feel they should hotfix this ASAP, even tonight would be fine, because ultras targeting buildings with that huge aoe they have now, especially on a nexus, is really a bit out of this world.
They basically slaughter everything in a huge radius and that can't be considered fine to keep until "future patches" but oh well, we know the blizzard idea about this...
any idea to how to not get totally raped by the huge aoe?I mean normal aoe is standard on units, you can counter that, but when they get on a building is really hard to save anything.You can't really approach them and try to split your forces, the range seems too big.
I'm not really seeing how this can be considered normal =\.
Also as a protoss I can't really repair buildings and if I build to tight I might fear they would just roflstomp my whole base...Maybe I'm wrong correct me if I'm missing something
Atleast they buffed zergs somehow, they really needed a hand, not this big maybe =P
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On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right.  I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed.
Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option.
The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong.
I think the PF was designed as a way for terrans to be able to hold off attacks until they could send reinforcements. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.
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That's not right :S
first it does not make any sense, is illogical and looks retarded
secondly, it's just not balanced
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On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed. Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option. The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong. I think the PF was designed as a way for terrans to be able to hold off attacks until they could send reinforcements. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.
You mean terran would actually have a command center that doesn't defend itself? That would be so up, why don't the other races have to defend their zerg sunken hatcheries and protoss photon nexuses. Oh wait nevermind.
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On September 23 2010 02:06 SlowBlink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed. Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option. The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong. I think the PF was designed as a way for terrans to be able to hold off attacks until they could send reinforcements. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce. You mean terran would actually have a command center that doesn't defend itself? That would be so up, why don't the other races have to defend their zerg sunken hatcheries and protoss photon nexuses. Oh wait nevermind.
The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.
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Sunken hatchery? Photon Nexus? I don't even know what you're saying... He's saying it's meant to act LIKE a photon cannon or sunkens, for Terrans who have no other no-supply option for defense. Not to wtf pwn an army but hold off some harass and delay a huge army. I'm sorry you can't fuck all my scvs at an expo with a ling runby anymore - toss would cannon up and warp in some zlots and you'd die just as fast.
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On September 23 2010 01:42 XXXSmOke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:33 SlowBlink wrote:On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!! You went MMM + thor vs ultraling. It sounds to me like you deserved to lose that one. I understand but the fact 2 ultras end up with 25+ kills in a matter of 10 secs is a good sign of a game bug ruinging a match up
Tanks pre-patch worked like this. The ultra change... Is strange. Looks like invisible chain bolt from big tusks =p All REPAIR LOL HAHA PF tactics will be dead right now,but I see that THAT splash is nowhere nearly balanced. Sure,make it big,but NOT HUGE LIKE THIS!
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you can overrun a few cannons and some zealots with Zerglings.
you CAN'T do it with a PF... To destroy a PF takes an army.
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On September 23 2010 02:09 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 02:06 SlowBlink wrote:On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed. Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option. The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong. I think the PF was designed as a way for terrans to be able to hold off attacks until they could send reinforcements. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce. You mean terran would actually have a command center that doesn't defend itself? That would be so up, why don't the other races have to defend their zerg sunken hatcheries and protoss photon nexuses. Oh wait nevermind. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.
1. Sunkens have a much lower DPS, less range, cost drones, cannot be repaired, cannot be mined to.
2. Cannons have have lower DPS, less range, cannot be mined to
3. Terran already has a ground-to-ground static defense. It's called a bunker and literally costs you nothing. Oh noes, you have to waste 4 supply to defend an entire expo for 20 seconds while your reinforcements arrive. Woe is you.
I was trying to point out that Zerg and Protoss do not have an "auto-defending" main structure, so the fact that Terran's isn't so great isn't exactly the end of the world.
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On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed. Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option.
This is only true if you place zero value on defending expansions against Zerg in the pre-ultralisk stages of the game. Surely Zerg are capable of potentially damaging aggression versus Terran before getting ultralisks, right? Riiiiight? 
On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:
The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong.
It's a better static defense than what the other races get, and that's really all that needs to be said. Everything else is just quibbling over the magnitude of it. The rest of your post is just an explanation of the PF's design intent, which is something we all already know. No one is saying (at least, I'm not saying) that PFs need to be deleted entirely.
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On September 23 2010 01:51 Grond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!! This AoE vs Thors is the same size as it was before except Ultralisk damage was nerfed. You have 7 posts in this thread you should be a little better informed.
Not true, tested this w a friend after losing that game. Had perfectly spread units then he would send an ultra to hit a thor. and my rauders who are definately out of the normal ultra splash dmg range were getting hit.
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God forbid the ultra splash do the same thing that tanks and collusus can. Destroy a cc/ nexus / hatch while also skullfucking the workers/ defense with the splash.
OH NO ultra's have splash , the melee units are doing dmg now before they get destroyed completely.
If it was a terran or protoss attacking that PF then you would see the same destruction except the tanks / collosus would be alive afterwards.
All these terrans bitching that their Planetary fortress cant hold off an army of 5-6 ultra's with no other support besides being repaired are really just showing how spoiled they've let their race make them
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On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right.
He also just claimed zerglings with adrenal are more accessible to drop than a thor, adrenal means hive tech+further research no?
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![[image loading]](http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k64/Arcanewinds/Screenshot2010-09-2218_18_07.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k64/Arcanewinds/Screenshot2010-09-2218_13_07.jpg)
Just tested this a little bit, absolutely insane imo. Should be hotfixed immediately. Some of us have qualifiers to play tonight >
How this can be seen as balanced by some people is beyond me, needs to be fixed asap.
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On September 23 2010 02:23 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff. It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you. All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed. Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option. This is only true if you place zero value on defending expansions against Zerg in the pre-ultralisk stages of the game. Surely Zerg are capable of potentially damaging aggression versus Terran before getting ultralisks, right? Riiiiight? Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:
The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong. It's a better static defense than what the other races get, and that's really all that needs to be said. Everything else is just quibbling over the magnitude of it. The rest of your post is just an explanation of the PF's design intent, which is something we all already know. No one is saying (at least, I'm not saying) that PFs need to be deleted entirely.
Yes the planetary fortress is very strong against ground, that is why many zerg users opt for mutas, so that terrans has to build alot of turrets to battle that threat.
I guess infestors with FG can do damage to mineral lines, but I have never seen this used so that will just be theory crafting. Broodlords are also a good counter to PFs, but then again, they are also very high up in the tech tree.
I agree planetary fortress is too strong, but with the new patch the ultralisk aoe is just ridicoulus. That was kinda my point, but i guess it got lost somewhere :p
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