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On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being?
I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it.
My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique.
Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. 
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On September 23 2010 00:57 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 00:20 Proxyles wrote:StarCraft II Beta – Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250)
The latest patch notes can always be found on the StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum.
Balance Changes
TERRAN
Battlecruiser
-The build time has been decreased from 110 to 90.
Fusion Core
-The build time has been decreased from 80 to 65.
Hellion
-The range has been increased from 5 to 6.
Planetary Fortress
-The splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
Raven
-Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6.
-Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2.
-Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core.
Siege Tank
-Life increased from 150 to 160.
-Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
Thor
-Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30.
-Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28.
-Air damage changed from 8 (+4 Light) to 6 (+6 Light).
-250mm Strike Cannons are now an upgrade at the Factory Tech Lab.
-250mm Strike Cannons research now costs 150/150 and 110 seconds.
-250mm Strike Cannons energy cost increased from 100 to 150.
-Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
PROTOSS
Archon
-The splash radius has been increased from 0.8 to 1.
-Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
Colossus
-The damage has been decreased from 20 to 15.
-The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
Phoenix
-Can now attack while moving.
Sentry
-The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.
ZERG
Brood Lord
-Life has been decreased from 275 to 225.
-Armor has been decreased from 2 to 1.
Corruptor
-Corruptor damage changed from 12 (+10 Massive) to 14 (+6 Massive).
-Corruptor speed increased from 2.75 to 2.9531
-Corruption ability redesigned:
-Single target.
-Increases damage taken by 20%.
-Lasts 30 seconds.
-Costs 100 energy.
-Range 6.
-Cannot target structures.
Infestor
-Neural Parasite is now an upgrade at the Infestation Pit.
-Neural Parasite research costs 150/150 and 110 seconds.
-Neural Parasite can now target Air units.
-Neural Parasite energy cost increased from 50 to 100.
Spine Crawler
-The root time has been increased from 6 to 12.
Spore Crawler
-The root time has been increased from 6 to 12.
Ultralisk
-Damage has been increased from 18 to 25.
Hotkey Changes
General
-In order to resolve a conflict with building multiple Forges with the Shift Key we have made the following changes:
-Changed Center Camera from Shift+F to Ctrl+F.
Standard
-To prevent the accidental research of Ventral Sacs when trying to train an Overlord with no Larva available, the hotkey has been changed from V to E.
-View Own Health Bars functionality added to the Backslash key
Standard for Lefties
-Due to a conflict with research Banshee Cloak, research Seeker Missile has been changed from L to K.
-To correct a conflict with the Attack command on Planetary Fortress, train SCV has been changed from K to J.
-In order to prevent the accidental training of Zerglings when using the Select Larva hotkey,train Zergling has been changed from L to J.
-To prevent the accidental training of a Queen, train Ultralisk has been changed from U to T.
-To prevent the accidental research of Pneumatized Carapace when trying to train a corruptor with -no Larva available, research Pneumatized Carapace has been changed from P to C.
-View All Status Bars has been changed from Q to the Alt key.
-View own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Q key.
Grid for Lefties
-Attack Move and all other buttons in the 0,4 position should now function correctly.
-View Own Status Bars functionality added to Q.
-View Enemy Status Bars moved to W.
-View Ally Status Bars moved to E.
Classic
-Changed build Nydus Canal from P to N.
-Changed Place Nydus Canal ability from P to N.
-Terran Infantry Weapon researches have been changed from E to W.
-Terran Vehicle Weapon researches have been changed from E to W.
-Train Thor hotkey has been changed from O to G.
-Train Viking hotkey has been changed from Y to W.
-View Own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Backslash key.
Icon Position Changes
To put all race gas extractors in the same icon position, the positions of the Supply Depot/Refinery and Pylon/Assimilator have been swapped.
In order to make transforming multiple Gateways easier for players using Grid key sets, Transform to Gateway has been moved to a separate icon position (2,1).
Bug Fixes
Corrected an issue that was causing the Polish language client to crash when receiving the "player is no longer being revealed” message.
Corrected incorrect battle.net links on multiple language clients pages.
Corrected an issue where the Zealot was using an US English voice over in the Korean language client.
Corrected an issue where a player is unable to build any structures that require pylon power when their protoss ally leaves.
Units can no longer be healed or repaired while in transports.
Corrected an issue where the Creep Tumor targeting circle was visible to opponents through Fog of War.
Corrected an issue in which selecting a Starport under construction and a completed Starport would display the select builder command in the Viking slot.
Corrected the Broodling weapon icon. As you clearly can se from Patch 11 in Beta this is Working as intended  all splash is working in the same way, and has been this way sens then Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage If you read the sections you yourself have bolded you will see that NO other splash works in the same way as Ultra splash in 1.1.0. All splash originates at the center of the unit. If a unit has a size of 3 and is hit with a splash with a size of 3 no other unit would be hit by the splash because it would not exceed the size of the target unit. The Ultra splash is not using this set of logic. It is originating at the radius of the target object. So if a unit with a size of 3 is hit with its splash it and all units within a radius of (splash size) around it are being hit.
I think you mean circumference, not radius. Radius would be the measure from the center to the outside (ie: the center). Circumference would be the outside perimeter.
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That doesn't look right lol As a zerg I think it's fun though
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Oh hey, if you did the zerg walloff using evo chambers, could you put ultras in the back and attack the inside of your own wall to kill attackers on the other side?
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lol blizzard dun goofed, gonna be hilarious if cool plays his games before this gets fixed :D
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I play terran, and I agree that the PF repair was laughably op. I think a good fix would be to either increase the time it would take to repair it, or increase the cost to repair it over time.
It seems as if everyone is thinking that this is a nerf on terran, it didnt fix anything at all when it comes to how OP a PF is. This change is going to probably be interesting in ZvZ if an ultralisk gets in a zerg base and starts on the hatchery, its going to kill the queen, larva, and drones by the time its finished killing it.
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On September 23 2010 01:12 HyperDeath wrote:
I play terran, and I agree that the PF repair was laughably op. I think a good fix would be to either increase the time it would take to repair it, or increase the cost to repair it over time.
It seems as if everyone is thinking that this is a nerf on terran, it didnt fix anything at all when it comes to how OP a PF is. This change is going to probably be interesting in ZvZ if an ultralisk gets in a zerg base and starts on the hatchery, its going to kill the queen, larva, and drones by the time its finished killing it.
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP).
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On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:12 HyperDeath wrote:
I play terran, and I agree that the PF repair was laughably op. I think a good fix would be to either increase the time it would take to repair it, or increase the cost to repair it over time.
It seems as if everyone is thinking that this is a nerf on terran, it didnt fix anything at all when it comes to how OP a PF is. This change is going to probably be interesting in ZvZ if an ultralisk gets in a zerg base and starts on the hatchery, its going to kill the queen, larva, and drones by the time its finished killing it.
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP).
really? the majority of my ZvZs make it until i get ultralisks and stomp the other player.
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On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right.
I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff.
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On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch.
lol, true i guess i dont watch enough ZvZ.
But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP).
i know right, also, 10 armor on a light unit. how was this not fixed yet?
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On September 23 2010 01:20 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:On September 23 2010 01:12 HyperDeath wrote:
I play terran, and I agree that the PF repair was laughably op. I think a good fix would be to either increase the time it would take to repair it, or increase the cost to repair it over time.
It seems as if everyone is thinking that this is a nerf on terran, it didnt fix anything at all when it comes to how OP a PF is. This change is going to probably be interesting in ZvZ if an ultralisk gets in a zerg base and starts on the hatchery, its going to kill the queen, larva, and drones by the time its finished killing it.
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). really? the majority of my ZvZs make it until i get ultralisks and stomp the other player.
Mine usually ends in whoever reaches critical mass of mutalisks first and kills all of our drones
Hydra/Roach = yawn, never ends until ultra/broods come out :|
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On September 23 2010 01:22 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:20 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:On September 23 2010 01:12 HyperDeath wrote:
I play terran, and I agree that the PF repair was laughably op. I think a good fix would be to either increase the time it would take to repair it, or increase the cost to repair it over time.
It seems as if everyone is thinking that this is a nerf on terran, it didnt fix anything at all when it comes to how OP a PF is. This change is going to probably be interesting in ZvZ if an ultralisk gets in a zerg base and starts on the hatchery, its going to kill the queen, larva, and drones by the time its finished killing it.
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). really? the majority of my ZvZs make it until i get ultralisks and stomp the other player. Mine usually ends in whoever reaches critical mass of mutalisks first and kills all of our drones Hydra/Roach = yawn, never ends until ultra/broods come out :|
infestors solve both those situations. Consequentially, they also allow for hive tech progression
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I think it should stay like this, so PF are not so imba.
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Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!!
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On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!!
You went MMM + thor vs ultraling. It sounds to me like you deserved to lose that one.
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On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.
I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops. As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think. I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops. Your point being? I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it. My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique. Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right. I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff.
It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you.
All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed.
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On September 23 2010 01:22 HyperDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. lol, true i guess i dont watch enough ZvZ. Show nested quote +But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). i know right, also, 10 armor on a light unit. how was this not fixed yet?
You guys both need to please know what you are talking about before you speak. If the zerg can have their larvae easily killed, how do you propose they make any units? Thats like a Thor being produced from a foctory to be able to be destroyed before it spawns. That's all I have to say about your opinions that seem to be void of any truth.
About the ultralisk splash. I feel that this is definitely going to be easily abused. I for one did not mind the ram ability when hitting builds, my problem with the ultralisk is that the AI is terrible. I feel like im trying to control a few dragoons from BW with my lumbering beasts. The ultra should not be getting stuck and confused behind 3 or 4 lings... I feel that blizz should give ultras the ability to walk over zerglings, similar to the effect of the collossus, but only with zerglings. Heck, it can kill the lings in the process, but dang man, that unit is so difficult to get to the front lines if there is any sort of choke.
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On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!!
That's the same Ultralisk from 1.0.3.. only difference now is the attack verses buildings.
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On September 23 2010 01:40 Cheeryohs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:22 HyperDeath wrote:On September 23 2010 01:15 SlowBlink wrote:
Ultras in ZvZ? I've yet to see one get past lair tech, although yes it would probably be an interesting game to watch. lol, true i guess i dont watch enough ZvZ. But as well all know, larvae are horribly imba to begin with, and they could use a nerf anyway (come on, they turn into EVERY unit in the zerg tech tree, so OP). i know right, also, 10 armor on a light unit. how was this not fixed yet? You guys both need to please know what you are talking about before you speak. If the zerg can have their larvae easily killed, how do you propose they make any units? Thats like a Thor being produced from a foctory to be able to be destroyed before it spawns. That's all I have to say about your opinions that seem to be void of any truth. About the ultralisk splash. I feel that this is definitely going to be easily abused. I for one did not mind the ram ability when hitting builds, my problem with the ultralisk is that the AI is terrible. I feel like im trying to control a few dragoons from BW with my lumbering beasts. The ultra should not be getting stuck and confused behind 3 or 4 lings... I feel that blizz should give ultras the ability to walk over zerglings, similar to the effect of the collossus, but only with zerglings. Heck, it can kill the lings in the process, but dang man, that unit is so difficult to get to the front lines if there is any sort of choke.
Sarcasm broseph, learn it. I literally just called larvae OP and you took my post seriously.
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On September 23 2010 01:33 SlowBlink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.
And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.
This is getting really scary -_-!!! You went MMM + thor vs ultraling. It sounds to me like you deserved to lose that one.
I understand but the fact 2 ultras end up with 25+ kills in a matter of 10 secs is a good sign of a game bug ruinging a match up
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EPT
