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Ultras vs Repaired PF - Page 40

Forum Index > SC2 General
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BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 22 2010 14:27 GMT
#781
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.
SUNSFANNED
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 22 2010 14:28 GMT
#782
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.


Read my post 1 page back

cleave is working as it was coded too

the correct term is "blizzard dun goofed" for allowed it to be used on buildings
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:32:37
September 22 2010 14:29 GMT
#783
I do agree this seems imbalanced as it currently stands (though ONLY because of the impact on mineral lines...I think Ultras devastating PFs and repairing SCVs is totally fine).

But to everyone complaining about the visuals (e.g. "This makes no sense! SCVs who are far away are somehow taking damage!)...how does this make any less sense than SCV's repairing a building that is being attacked from the front by standing behind it and repairing? "Oh man, this building just took a ton of damage to its front door! Better go around to the back door and fix it!".

If you start looking for things to "make sense" in Starcraft you're going to be disappointed.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Woozyman
Profile Joined September 2010
19 Posts
September 22 2010 14:31 GMT
#784
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.


I'm A toss player and my reaction is like a zerg player. From watching GSL, ESL, MLG, top 200 ladder, % of zerg players, it's my opinion that zerg are clearly UP and having them have fun with a little ultra AOE BUG is fine with me, they suffered long enough.

As a toss I have to deal with the same ultra AOE BUG however I don't qq like terran and call an immediate bug fix or I quit sc2 coz as a toss player I don't have IMBA PFs auto repaired by 30 svcs.
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
September 22 2010 14:31 GMT
#785
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.

As has been said about a million times in the thread already, the ultra splash is applied from the center of the building. The same thing happens with tank splash and makes them own everything - but nobody ever complains that that's imbalanced, or a bug. The problem with this is that it LOOKS bad, not necessarily is it imba. If you're a Terran player and you leave your expo undefended, it can be killed by ultras now instead of being completely invincible. I'm sorry if T players have a problem with that, it also really sucks when 2 medivacs can land and snipe my nexus in about 30 seconds, significantly faster than in that video.

U Gotta Skate.
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 22 2010 14:33 GMT
#786
On September 22 2010 23:31 Woozyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.


I'm A toss player and my reaction is like a zerg player. From watching GSL, ESL, MLG, top 200 ladder, % of zerg players, it's my opinion that zerg are clearly UP and having them have fun with a little ultra AOE BUG is fine with me, they suffered long enough.

As a toss I have to deal with the same ultra AOE BUG however I don't qq like terran and call an immediate bug fix or I quit sc2 coz as a toss player I don't have IMBA PFs auto repaired by 30 svcs.


Lol... if you read my post you'd notice i was calling into question the people who insisted it wasn't a bug, not the people who were just having their merry fun with it.
SUNSFANNED
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
September 22 2010 14:37 GMT
#787
On September 22 2010 23:31 ghermination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.

As has been said about a million times in the thread already, the ultra splash is applied from the center of the building. The same thing happens with tank splash and makes them own everything - but nobody ever complains that that's imbalanced, or a bug. The problem with this is that it LOOKS bad, not necessarily is it imba. If you're a Terran player and you leave your expo undefended, it can be killed by ultras now instead of being completely invincible. I'm sorry if T players have a problem with that, it also really sucks when 2 medivacs can land and snipe my nexus in about 30 seconds, significantly faster than in that video.



You can repeat something incorrect a million times and it still ain't going to become correct.

Ultra splash is different and has always been.
I'll call Nada.
Woozyman
Profile Joined September 2010
19 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:41:33
September 22 2010 14:39 GMT
#788
On September 22 2010 23:31 ghermination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.

As has been said about a million times in the thread already, the ultra splash is applied from the center of the building. The same thing happens with tank splash and makes them own everything - but nobody ever complains that that's imbalanced, or a bug. The problem with this is that it LOOKS bad, not necessarily is it imba. If you're a Terran player and you leave your expo undefended, it can be killed by ultras now instead of being completely invincible. I'm sorry if T players have a problem with that, it also really sucks when 2 medivacs can land and snipe my nexus in about 30 seconds, significantly faster than in that video.



Wrong, people did QQ about it but learned to deal with it (split your forces). The aoe splash dmg is also not much of an issue since a unit surface area is much less larger than a structure surface area. Therefore you can reduce splash effectiveness if tanks target smaller units.


That's why I'm back to saying make the dmg reduced at the edge of AOE and most dmg done at the center of AOE. That way ultras still retain the buff to take down easy/imba/noob PFs auto repaired by 30 workers.

If you read the patch note carefully, I think that's what Blizz intent to do when trying to buff ultras vs structures... and it was always about the PF in mind.
FreeZEternal
Profile Joined January 2003
Korea (South)3396 Posts
September 22 2010 14:40 GMT
#789
wow... no wonder my DT were raped when like 5 Ultra were attacking my exp -.-;;;;;;;;;;
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
September 22 2010 14:40 GMT
#790
Haha, after watching this vid, blizzard goes: "Oh so that's what wrong with tanks".

Awesome new feature - i dont see it as a bug.
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
September 22 2010 14:41 GMT
#791
On September 22 2010 23:09 ltortoise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:08 Velr wrote:
It's not a bug.

The Mechanik is fine.
The Mechanik is just way to strong when applied to buildings.
Therefore it's not working as intendet, but that does not make it a bug.


"A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug

Key phrase is here is behaving in "unintended ways."


So the game being imbalanced is a bug, since that's unintended/fault/failure?
By using that definition you can cover absolutely everything and no, not everything is a bug.
I'll call Nada.
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
September 22 2010 14:42 GMT
#792
On September 22 2010 22:56 SpaceYeti wrote:
Reading this thread really makes me yearn for another subforum with minimum competency posting restrictions. Where is that other thread? I need to go vote in it.

It's a bug, Blizzard acknowledged its not working as intended, and I don't know what else you call coding that doesn't work as intended. Guess we'll see what they call it when they patch it out of the game.

Can we end this debate about whether it is or isn't intended now?


The reason this thread won't die is people like you insist on calling it a bug when the facts clearly show it is not.

Will it be changed in the future? Most likely.

Is it a bug? Not if you know the definition of a bug.
Jimmeh
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom908 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:45:57
September 22 2010 14:45 GMT
#793
On September 22 2010 23:42 Grond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 22:56 SpaceYeti wrote:
Reading this thread really makes me yearn for another subforum with minimum competency posting restrictions. Where is that other thread? I need to go vote in it.

It's a bug, Blizzard acknowledged its not working as intended, and I don't know what else you call coding that doesn't work as intended. Guess we'll see what they call it when they patch it out of the game.

Can we end this debate about whether it is or isn't intended now?


The reason this thread won't die is people like you insist on calling it a bug when the facts clearly show it is not.

Will it be changed in the future? Most likely.

Is it a bug? Not if you know the definition of a bug.


Wikipedia wrote::

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways


Error in code is causing the Ultralisk's attack splash damage to not work as intended vs buildings. Seems like a bug to me.
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 22 2010 14:48 GMT
#794
On September 22 2010 23:45 Jimmeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:42 Grond wrote:
On September 22 2010 22:56 SpaceYeti wrote:
Reading this thread really makes me yearn for another subforum with minimum competency posting restrictions. Where is that other thread? I need to go vote in it.

It's a bug, Blizzard acknowledged its not working as intended, and I don't know what else you call coding that doesn't work as intended. Guess we'll see what they call it when they patch it out of the game.

Can we end this debate about whether it is or isn't intended now?


The reason this thread won't die is people like you insist on calling it a bug when the facts clearly show it is not.

Will it be changed in the future? Most likely.

Is it a bug? Not if you know the definition of a bug.


Show nested quote +
Wikipedia wrote::

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways


Error in code is causing the Ultralisk's attack splash damage to not work as intended vs buildings. Seems like a bug to me.


On September 22 2010 23:20 Fa1nT wrote:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ultralisk

When attacking units, its attack deals splash damage within a range of 2.5 in a 180° arc in the direction of the target. Also, this splash damage was reduced down to 33% of the targeted damage.

Since when attacking a small unit like a zealot, the ultralisk fills the back 180% of that circle.

So yes, it does 2.5 range splash originating from the target of cleave (a building)

They did not change the coding at all for the attack, just allowed it to be used on buildings.

For them to change this, they will have to make a 100% new attack for ultras to do on buildings.

ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:52:11
September 22 2010 14:50 GMT
#795
On September 22 2010 23:39 Woozyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:31 ghermination wrote:
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.

As has been said about a million times in the thread already, the ultra splash is applied from the center of the building. The same thing happens with tank splash and makes them own everything - but nobody ever complains that that's imbalanced, or a bug. The problem with this is that it LOOKS bad, not necessarily is it imba. If you're a Terran player and you leave your expo undefended, it can be killed by ultras now instead of being completely invincible. I'm sorry if T players have a problem with that, it also really sucks when 2 medivacs can land and snipe my nexus in about 30 seconds, significantly faster than in that video.



Wrong, people did QQ about it but learned to deal with it (split your forces). The aoe splash dmg is also not much of an issue since a unit surface area is much less larger than a structure surface area. Therefore you can reduce splash effectiveness if tanks target smaller units.


That's why I'm back to saying make the dmg reduced at the edge of AOE and most dmg done at the center of AOE. That way ultras still retain the buff to take down easy/imba/noob PFs auto repaired by 30 workers.

If you read the patch note carefully, I think that's what Blizz intent to do when trying to buff ultras vs structures... and it was always about the PF in mind.

Kind of confused by what you're saying here.
When an ultra attacks a building, all units within 2 or 3 range from the edge of that building have splash applied to them. Doesn't hava as much "range" with smaller buildings, because obviously being smaller the splash outward from their edges is applied to a smaller area. But when used as Blizzard intended (I don't know, maybe to make it possible to kill buildings beng repaired by scv's? GASP! IMBA BUG!) It turns into a powerful ability. I'll say it again: If the terran player hadn't been relying on only his PF to kill those ultras and had an army at his expo, those ultras would have been owned. I'm pretty sure if Blizzard were trying to make it possible to kill PF's (which they were) they would have tested it at least once.

Maybe we'll see this changed in the future, which I wouldn't really mind. However if it's just back to the 180 degree splash radius, then simply walling using your planetary fortress makes ultras unable to kill the repairing scv's again. That's why i think this was intended.
U Gotta Skate.
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
September 22 2010 14:50 GMT
#796

On September 22 2010 23:09 ltortoise wrote:

"A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug

Key phrase is here is behaving in "unintended ways."


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221

The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.


It's behaving exactly as intended.

Blizzard may now be uncomfortable with the buff but it is not a bug.

Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
September 22 2010 14:52 GMT
#797
On September 22 2010 23:45 Jimmeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:42 Grond wrote:
On September 22 2010 22:56 SpaceYeti wrote:
Reading this thread really makes me yearn for another subforum with minimum competency posting restrictions. Where is that other thread? I need to go vote in it.

It's a bug, Blizzard acknowledged its not working as intended, and I don't know what else you call coding that doesn't work as intended. Guess we'll see what they call it when they patch it out of the game.

Can we end this debate about whether it is or isn't intended now?


The reason this thread won't die is people like you insist on calling it a bug when the facts clearly show it is not.

Will it be changed in the future? Most likely.

Is it a bug? Not if you know the definition of a bug.


Show nested quote +
Wikipedia wrote::

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways



Error in code is causing the Ultralisk's attack splash damage to not work as intended vs buildings. Seems like a bug to me.




The code is working exactly as intended, Target size +2.
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 22 2010 14:58 GMT
#798
It's still a bug when code that is doing exactly what it's supposed to do does something unexpected and undesired.
SUNSFANNED
ThirdStorm
Profile Joined September 2010
21 Posts
September 22 2010 14:59 GMT
#799
Blizzard has already acknowledged this is a bug and will fix it in future patch. So for the time being, let's all switch to Zerg and mass Ultras!
Woozyman
Profile Joined September 2010
19 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 15:05:59
September 22 2010 15:00 GMT
#800
On September 22 2010 23:50 ghermination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 23:39 Woozyman wrote:
On September 22 2010 23:31 ghermination wrote:
On September 22 2010 23:27 BrownBear wrote:
This thread so far:

OP: Hey guys, check out this weird bug I found
Terran/Protoss players: haha, that's a pretty weird bug, alright
Zerg players: OMG TERRAN WHINE HOW U SAY THIS BUG FUCKING IMBA RACE QQ MOAR


...but seriously, when your melee unit essentially becomes a range 6 full damage AOE unit if it attacks the right thing, how on earth can you not admit it's a bug? Plus, it's not like ultras didn't kill PFs before - all you people whining about pathing obviously have never heard of micro before.

As has been said about a million times in the thread already, the ultra splash is applied from the center of the building. The same thing happens with tank splash and makes them own everything - but nobody ever complains that that's imbalanced, or a bug. The problem with this is that it LOOKS bad, not necessarily is it imba. If you're a Terran player and you leave your expo undefended, it can be killed by ultras now instead of being completely invincible. I'm sorry if T players have a problem with that, it also really sucks when 2 medivacs can land and snipe my nexus in about 30 seconds, significantly faster than in that video.



Wrong, people did QQ about it but learned to deal with it (split your forces). The aoe splash dmg is also not much of an issue since a unit surface area is much less larger than a structure surface area. Therefore you can reduce splash effectiveness if tanks target smaller units.


That's why I'm back to saying make the dmg reduced at the edge of AOE and most dmg done at the center of AOE. That way ultras still retain the buff to take down easy/imba/noob PFs auto repaired by 30 workers.

If you read the patch note carefully, I think that's what Blizz intent to do when trying to buff ultras vs structures... and it was always about the PF in mind.

Kind of confused by what you're saying here.
When an ultra attacks a building, all units within 2 or 3 range from the edge of that building have splash applied to them. Doesn't hava as much "range" with smaller buildings, because obviously being smaller the splash outward from their edges is applied to a smaller area. But when used as Blizzard intended (I don't know, maybe to make it possible to kill buildings beng repaired by scv's? GASP! IMBA BUG!) It turns into a powerful ability. I'll say it again: If the terran player hadn't been relying on only his PF to kill those ultras and had an army at his expo, those ultras would have been owned. I'm pretty sure if Blizzard were trying to make it possible to kill PF's (which they were) they would have tested it at least once.

Maybe we'll see this changed in the future, which I wouldn't really mind. However if it's just back to the 180 degree splash radius, then simply walling using your planetary fortress makes ultras unable to kill the repairing scv's again. That's why i think this was intended.


We're not sure what is it that Blizz wants to fix when they first gave the Ultra buff vs structures. My post was targeted more to Terrans calling BUG, therefore need immediate fix. I was specifically trying to say to those Terrans "please don't expect blizz to remove AOE structure dmg completely" as it will not solve the PF IMBA issue.

I understand they QQ that the AOE splash is ridiculous because the scaling effect is more dramatic

For example:

Ultra hitting supply depot, svcs goes to repair. The AOE splash is smaller since supply depot is smaller than PF. Little dramatic effect (in addition u send less workers to repair supply depot than PF). As for ultra hitting PF and the AOE (look the video) now all terrans QQ and cry BUG.

All I'm saying is: Ok it's a bug. However let's not have AOE splash DMG apply at the tip of the ultra attacking point. Have it still around the structure as it is (as they wanted to buff ultras vs structures). However make it that AOE dmg at the edge of the circle be lower than at the center of the structure.

That means the workers closest to PF will take more dmg than workers further from PFs. That was me will be a better fix while still retaining Ultra buff.

Basically from a balance position: The problem isn't to move aoe from structure to ultras. Just make the current aoe scale better so it doesn't ridiculously owned workers much further from structure.
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