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Ultras vs Repaired PF - Page 44

Forum Index > SC2 General
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baconbits
Profile Joined April 2010
United States419 Posts
September 22 2010 17:33 GMT
#861
On September 23 2010 01:42 XXXSmOke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 01:33 SlowBlink wrote:
On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:
Is any other T finding that when they play Z they are now rushing for ultras and if you dont kill them and they get a few out and make it to your natural all they have to do is right click your CC and your entire army and every single SCV gets decimated because they are hitting a building............. If I run my army to defend an expo the same thing happens. Every SCV dead and my army obliterated.

And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.

This is getting really scary -_-!!!


You went MMM + thor vs ultraling. It sounds to me like you deserved to lose that one.


I understand but the fact 2 ultras end up with 25+ kills in a matter of 10 secs is a good sign of a game bug ruinging a match up

so you have to actually leave some units (hello mauraders?) to defend instead of making a 150/150 investment on a planetary OPrtress and forgetting about it
anoobis
Profile Joined May 2010
United States46 Posts
September 22 2010 17:35 GMT
#862
Bring back the ram attack solution solved
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1438 Posts
September 22 2010 17:37 GMT
#863
WORKING AS INTENDED AMIRITE?

This is kinda ridiculous. Ultras are the only melee range splash right? I guess I can see how they made this error.
Baller Fanclub || CheAse Fanclub || Scarlett Fanclub || LJD FIGHTING!
Kinmaul
Profile Joined March 2010
United States104 Posts
September 22 2010 17:38 GMT
#864
Doesn't anyone remember the invincible drone bug SC1? Or the bug when you could crash everyone in the game (including yourself) if you killed a creep colony while it was morphing? Sometimes stuff just makes it by QA, it's unfortunate but it happens.

As previously pointed out if Blizzard deems the PF overpowered they will nerf it. They could reduce the damage it deals and/or nerf/remove the AoE. They could also chose to cap the number of scvs that could repair a target. There are a lot of options available to them. What they WON'T do is make another unit even more ridiculous and claim to have fixed the problem.
"Dimaga getting just the right amount of banelings to kill 100% of everything!" - Day[9]
Bad_Attitude
Profile Joined January 2010
Italy51 Posts
September 22 2010 17:39 GMT
#865
On September 23 2010 02:32 Arcanewinds wrote:
[image loading]
[image loading]

Just tested this a little bit, absolutely insane imo. Should be hotfixed immediately. Some of us have qualifiers to play tonight >

How this can be seen as balanced by some people is beyond me, needs to be fixed asap.



wow that's even worse than what I experienced in game.

I didn't think it was this big when I saw it in action...
Proxyles
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden27 Posts
September 22 2010 17:39 GMT
#866
On September 23 2010 00:49 lololol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 00:47 Nakas wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:42 lololol wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:25 Proxyles wrote:
Well to my defence its not the first time they forgot to add something in the notes, and my point is that ALL splash (ok that is mentioned) works that specific way, so why would not ultras splash work that exact same way?

Edit, AKA I think the change they did in patch 11 was not to the specific units doing splash damage but to the implementation of the splash mechanism


They did no changes to the splash. Ultra's splash has always been like that. It does originate from the center of the unit, but unlike all other splash attacks it's extended by the unit's radius, so when attacking something huge, their splash also becomes huge.


He's talking about the beta patch 11, not the patch 1.1 that was just released.


Ultras splash has always been different no matter the patch.


No it works the exact same way as for example Archon splash
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1438 Posts
September 22 2010 17:41 GMT
#867
On September 23 2010 02:09 gakkgakk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 02:06 SlowBlink wrote:
On September 23 2010 02:03 gakkgakk wrote:
On September 23 2010 01:39 Karkadinn wrote:
On September 23 2010 01:21 gakkgakk wrote:
On September 23 2010 01:02 Batch wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:49 gakkgakk wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:42 Batch wrote:
As I wrote earlier this is clearly a bug but it is not as game breaking as some of you thinks.

I did some testing and 8 marines with stim kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a ultralisk does. Ultralisk drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) marine drops.


As I wrote earlier this is clearly and it is as game breaking as some of you think.

I did some testing and 16 zerglings with adrenal kills of a command center and 16 workers faster than a Thor does. Thor drops will not be any more dangerous than the cheaper (and easier accessible) zergling drops.

Your point being?

I will explain my point since you obviously didn't get it.

My post was a reply to those who thought that ultra dropping where going to be some over powered base raising and economy wrecking technique.

Your example fails since thor drops often uses cliffs as an advantage. Zerglings can't use cliffs in the same way. Teching to zerglings drop also takes longer time than thor drops if you want overlord speed and are harder to incorporate into your game strategy. If there is one single defending unit or building the zerglings will get crazy and run around with only a few of them attacking. You did at least get the cheaper cost right.


I dont think many people are worried about a single ultralisk drop in the main vs an orbital command. What people are worried about is a couple ultras decimating a fully saturated PF if they try to repair. This bug makes a PF unusable vs zerg and will lead to people only making orbitals command and liftoff.


It makes PFs unusable versus a Zerg... with ultralisks. Zerg have the slowest teching speed by a wide margin, and TvZ has T with a sizable advantage in early and mid game. Frankly, if you're dealing with this situation in 1v1 on a regular basis you're not playing Terran aggressively enough. (Ironic, I know, considering they're supposed to be the 'defensive' race, but yeah.) If you're letting Zerg get all the way to T3, you should be ready for it. It's even less excusable than letting a Terran get to battlecruisers and calling them unbalanced because you don't have AA. And finally, if your definition of 'unusable' is 'the expansion can't defeat an entire army with just its static defenses,' then Terran has seriously spoiled you.

All that said, I don't think this kind of change is good for the game. Not from a balance standpoint, but from a visual and intuition standpoint. Like the +7% mineral thing, it would only confuse spectators and newbies, and for those reasons alone should probably be changed.


Well what i meant was that if the tvz game, god forbid, got to the point that the zerg has ultra tech, then there is no point in getting PF since it (and the workers if you dont send them away) will be wtfpwnt by ultras. Thus making orbital commands the only viable option.

The PF is maybe perhaps a little bit stronger than it needs to, but people saying you need hundreds of supply worth of units to take it down is wrong.

I think the PF was designed as a way for terrans to be able to hold off attacks until they could send reinforcements. The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.


You mean terran would actually have a command center that doesn't defend itself? That would be so up, why don't the other races have to defend their zerg sunken hatcheries and protoss photon nexuses. Oh wait nevermind.


The same function as sunkens and cannons really. Without it terran would have to use valuable supply for bunkers and tanks to defend expansions until they could send an army to reinforce.



Except marauders can walk through spines and cannons and PF's can kill entire armies with only repair. Good example.
Baller Fanclub || CheAse Fanclub || Scarlett Fanclub || LJD FIGHTING!
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
September 22 2010 17:42 GMT
#868
Now, what I can't beleive is that they didn't discover this when they tweaked the damage... I mean no testing whatsoever?
detact
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4 Posts
September 22 2010 17:43 GMT
#869
lol too awsome
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
September 22 2010 17:45 GMT
#870
On September 23 2010 02:39 Proxyles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 00:49 lololol wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:47 Nakas wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:42 lololol wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:25 Proxyles wrote:
Well to my defence its not the first time they forgot to add something in the notes, and my point is that ALL splash (ok that is mentioned) works that specific way, so why would not ultras splash work that exact same way?

Edit, AKA I think the change they did in patch 11 was not to the specific units doing splash damage but to the implementation of the splash mechanism


They did no changes to the splash. Ultra's splash has always been like that. It does originate from the center of the unit, but unlike all other splash attacks it's extended by the unit's radius, so when attacking something huge, their splash also becomes huge.


He's talking about the beta patch 11, not the patch 1.1 that was just released.


Ultras splash has always been different no matter the patch.


No it works the exact same way as for example Archon splash


You need glasses.
I'll call Nada.
Kinmaul
Profile Joined March 2010
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 17:50:57
September 22 2010 17:49 GMT
#871
On September 23 2010 02:39 Proxyles wrote:
No it works the exact same way as for example Archon splash

This is just plain wrong. Archon AoE is a fixed radius, and any units in the short "beam" also take damage. This has been tested and proved. The ONLY unit who has a dynamic AoE radius is the ultra and that's the root of this problem.

Are you just making stuff up at this point?
"Dimaga getting just the right amount of banelings to kill 100% of everything!" - Day[9]
HunterX11
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
September 22 2010 17:51 GMT
#872
How does Blizzard make a balance change because of a given situation, without testing that situation once before releasing the patch? I don't understand? There are only two possibilities:

1. Blizzard decided not to test the new Ultralisk attack against repaired Planetary Fortresses even once.

2. Blizzard decided to test it, but right after they tested it and saw what happened, Will Smith broke into the room through the wall dressed up like his character from Men In Black, and while everyone at Blizzard was awestruck saying, "Wow, it's Will Smith!" he put on his sunglasses and wiped their memories and told them that the change worked as intended because MiB was a documentary and Will Smith wants to buff Zerg.
Try using both Irradiate and Defensive Matrix on an Overlord. It looks pretty neat.
Nakas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States148 Posts
September 22 2010 17:54 GMT
#873
It may look a bit funny, but balance-wise this is a step in the right direction. Give it time and I'm sure players will learn to adjust to avoid the splash.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
September 22 2010 17:54 GMT
#874
On September 23 2010 02:51 HunterX11 wrote:
How does Blizzard make a balance change because of a given situation, without testing that situation once before releasing the patch? I don't understand? There are only two possibilities:

1. Blizzard decided not to test the new Ultralisk attack against repaired Planetary Fortresses even once.

2. Blizzard decided to test it, but right after they tested it and saw what happened, Will Smith broke into the room through the wall dressed up like his character from Men In Black, and while everyone at Blizzard was awestruck saying, "Wow, it's Will Smith!" he put on his sunglasses and wiped their memories and told them that the change worked as intended because MiB was a documentary and Will Smith wants to buff Zerg.


I'm pretty sure it's all Will Smith's fault.
I'll call Nada.
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 17:56:42
September 22 2010 17:56 GMT
#875
I gotta say I played a ZvT last night where I was pretty sure I was going to lose, and I had a huge mineral + gas dump on Ultralisks and the battle went ... just a little better than expected to say the least

I like the bug, but I'm sure even when it's patched up ultra's won't be "zomg nerfed to shit wtfbbq."

Welcome change in the meantime to make up for all of the reaper harass and 5 rax rauder builds

On September 23 2010 02:54 Nakas wrote:
It may look a bit funny, but balance-wise this is a step in the right direction. Give it time and I'm sure players will learn to adjust to avoid the splash.


+ Show Spoiler +

lol I see what you did there
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
September 22 2010 17:58 GMT
#876
On September 23 2010 02:24 XXXSmOke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 01:51 Grond wrote:
On September 23 2010 01:31 XXXSmOke wrote:

And since the bug works when Ultras hit Thors as well if any of their Ultras are hitting my Thor then that ultra is doing AoE to my entire army. Played a game yesterday where it was 140 food vs 145 food but the Z ends up losing 1 ultra and a few lings while my entire MMM Ball +Thor is obliterated beacause the second the ultras are hitting my thors they are splashing my entire army which cuts down my bio in about 3 hits.

This is getting really scary -_-!!!


This AoE vs Thors is the same size as it was before except Ultralisk damage was nerfed. You have 7 posts in this thread you should be a little better informed.


Not true, tested this w a friend after losing that game. Had perfectly spread units then he would send an ultra to hit a thor. and my rauders who are definately out of the normal ultra splash dmg range were getting hit.


He saying that you could've tested the same scenario before the patch and the result would've been the same, which is exactly the case. The only thing new is that they use the splash attack against buildings, while they didn't before the patch.
I'll call Nada.
HunterX11
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
September 22 2010 18:00 GMT
#877
I could see doing something like this intentionally, but it would keep the ram animation and deal a LOT less splash damage to units. Actually that would be pretty cool.
Try using both Irradiate and Defensive Matrix on an Overlord. It looks pretty neat.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 18:08:03
September 22 2010 18:05 GMT
#878
nvm didnt read thread sorry
In the woods, there lurks..
Spec
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Taiwan931 Posts
September 22 2010 18:05 GMT
#879
On September 23 2010 02:51 HunterX11 wrote:
How does Blizzard make a balance change because of a given situation, without testing that situation once before releasing the patch? I don't understand? There are only two possibilities:

1. Blizzard decided not to test the new Ultralisk attack against repaired Planetary Fortresses even once.

2. Blizzard decided to test it, but right after they tested it and saw what happened, Will Smith broke into the room through the wall dressed up like his character from Men In Black, and while everyone at Blizzard was awestruck saying, "Wow, it's Will Smith!" he put on his sunglasses and wiped their memories and told them that the change worked as intended because MiB was a documentary and Will Smith wants to buff Zerg.


^I wish they make MiBIII.
But back on topic, a hot fix is prolly coming soon. Blizz said that the AoE vs building is meant for the smaller buildings, meaning that this is really a bug (however awesome).

Personally, I kinda want the old ram animation, cuz they made it anyways, but with AoE.
Is it so hard to add a damage radius? It's funny how by working on a small balance problem leads to something huge :o This is now Imbalisk.
The guy talking about Archon splash radii may be saying that the splash zone is never at the center of the target unit, which is sorta true saying that its splash depends on unit size, but not exactly a problem.
Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Gandhi
Mrbustanut
Profile Joined May 2010
121 Posts
September 22 2010 18:07 GMT
#880
On September 23 2010 02:32 Arcanewinds wrote:
[image loading]
[image loading]

Just tested this a little bit, absolutely insane imo. Should be hotfixed immediately. Some of us have qualifiers to play tonight >

How this can be seen as balanced by some people is beyond me, needs to be fixed asap.


Wow...um that is pretty bad. Feel bad for anyone in a tourney that has to go against a zerg opponent that gets any ultras out.
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