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On September 23 2010 03:36 bLah. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:22 Grond wrote:
I tested Ultra vs Marauder before the patch and just tested it again. If anything it is now smaller.Before the patch the radius was 3 Marauders, now it is 2. Dude, problem isn't Ultra vs Marauder. Problem is with big units, when Ultra hits Thor it will hit all units around it in 2 radius. which means that if it attacks Thor it can attack 10 marauders around it.
Which means you should learn to spread your units out. Oh no, more than 1 control group for 200/200 army? brb crying imba
On September 23 2010 03:40 summerloud wrote:
what about ultras hitting colossi now? wont that splash half the toss' army now?
If you've got colossi in a spot where an ultralisk can hit it, that's your fault for having bad micro. If you've got a wall of stalker/zealots out front where they should be, an ultra can't even touch it.
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On September 23 2010 03:22 positron. wrote:
Would they let players play with this ridiculous bug?
Why wouldn't they? It doesn't break the game. It doesn't make getting Ultras out isn't insta-gg. I'm not saying they shouldn't patch it (let's be real, it's a glaring obvious bug), but you can still play the game just fine as long as you keep it in mind.
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This is obviously a bug and anyone defending it is being foolish. Yes, zerg needed buffs, but keeping a stupid glitch like this isn't how they intended to patch it.
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Truly just baffling that a patch went out with this in it. When they did the situation report it isn't like they were just arbitrarily throwing out ideas. Those were changes they had decided on presumably after some internal debate, testing and tweaking. Then they had all the time before the patch launched when they had to be playing internally on it already. There was not one single game or play-around-with-the-editor session in which an ultra attacked a pf that was being repaired? Or an oc with a turret nearby? Or a gateway with a pylon on the other side?
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I think this is pretty okay, I mean they got less dmg + aoe ain't that good, only in very rare situations where someone does something stupid or idd, the planetery fortress(but that thing was waaaay overpowered to begin with).
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On September 23 2010 03:40 summerloud wrote:
what about ultras hitting colossi now? wont that splash half the toss' army now?
also i think most ppl in this thread who are defending this dont see the obvious point: that blizz made us wait for weeks for a shit patch that changed nothing and included a bug that should have been obvious if they tested it at all
If they are hitting half your army then they were doing it before this patch as well. The only listed change is their mechanic versus buildings (and possibly a reduction in their splash range? which some above posts hint at).
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Hmm, now I just need to get to ultras without dying to terrans rush...
The journey begins.
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Blizzard is sorta like us... many theorycrafting and not enough real thing :p
I really expect this to be fixed in two days max. (And maybe someone getting flamed in the coding department).
Ultras are supposed to be nerfed this patch, now they're like Jesus ponies.
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On September 23 2010 03:36 bLah. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:22 Grond wrote:
I tested Ultra vs Marauder before the patch and just tested it again. If anything it is now smaller.Before the patch the radius was 3 Marauders, now it is 2. Dude, problem isn't Ultra vs Marauder. Problem is with big units, when Ultra hits Thor it will hit all units around it in 2 radius. which means that if it attacks Thor it can attack 10 marauders around it.
Which is how it worked before except it did more damage. The only change is when a building is the target.
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On September 23 2010 03:26 cykalu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:24 Mrbustanut wrote:On September 23 2010 03:14 Fa1nT wrote:On September 23 2010 03:07 Mrbustanut wrote:On September 23 2010 02:32 Arcanewinds wrote:![[image loading]](http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k64/Arcanewinds/Screenshot2010-09-2218_18_07.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k64/Arcanewinds/Screenshot2010-09-2218_13_07.jpg) Just tested this a little bit, absolutely insane imo. Should be hotfixed immediately. Some of us have qualifiers to play tonight >  How this can be seen as balanced by some people is beyond me, needs to be fixed asap. Wow...um that is pretty bad. Feel bad for anyone in a tourney that has to go against a zerg opponent that gets any ultras out. Why? If ultras are hitting your buildings in a tourney you probably already lost. You get dropped and every unit within a 5 mile radius of your CC dies. Balanced? Marauder drop, stimed, CC/Nexus/Hatch down in 7 seconds. Balanced? Units can be controlled away, but buildings can't. Oh wait! *Lifts*
found this example hilarious!
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diamond random player checking in
I think there's just an inherent flaw with how the TvZ match up works in the new game. What I mean by that is...
Terran is, in concept, supposed to be a defensively oriented race. It's always been that way, which is why they have big bulky, relatively immobile units that are armored and powerful. Along the same lines, they have the capability to build bunkers, and repair structures, both mechanics with defense in mind.
Zerg is, in concept, a speedy race of an aggressive, swarm-type nature. They have light units that are supposed to be faster, cheaper and meant to be used on the offensive. Mutas and speedlings are good examples of that.
In sc2, Terran was given all these units that are meant to expand their harassment (read: offensive) capabilities, and were also given a building - the PF - that takes a way a lot (not all) of the ways in which zerg can harass (read: be aggressive).
Zerg have no additional defensive capabilities (in fact, an important one was removed....lurkers....), and few additional harassment/offensive capabilities (nydus worm? banelings? only one is semi-effective at neutralizing a PF expo)
So now, what should be a more dynamic match up with games consisting of a lot of harassment/defense and map control, are games that end up being decided by a heads-up army-vs-army battle. I think it would be hard to say that this is an even match up at any stage of the game, and is definitely poorly balanced in favor of T in the early- and mid-games.
When I play T against Z, I basically expect speedling/bling into muta. Nothing else makes sense, as roaches get torn up by a bio ball, hydras get stomped out by hellions/tanks. It's so easy to scout zerg, even without scans, so it's not like I need to guess as to what they're building anyway. Mutas, even in mass numbers, can be dealt with easily with only a few turrets to tank damage until your units can get there to fend it off (thors, marines). Don't wanna hear about the magic box, because I would never build thors and send them into a fight without bio support anyway.
1-1-1 opening into a banshee harass, while building marine/hellion to save gas. Tech switch when zerg gets to t-2, game over. Even without tanks...just need to 1a to win. If I get an expo up with a PF, I throw up 5 turrets around it and pay no attention to it for the rest of the game, because zerg has to send an entire army to it in hopes of taking it out (which even then is unlikely), where I would counter elsewhere. How would a Z beat that? Roaches? doubt anybody is building roaches after a banshee harass. T-3? way too late for that
That's why I feel like the match up is broken, because I have no feasible way of breaking that build if I draw Z against T. The argument should really be, "well just contain his economy and get map control, then use the zerg macro advantage to overwhelm". K, but TvZ is no longer limited to the immobility of having to baby your tanks around from base to base, and protecting SCVs while you build turrets. You just send a bio ball or some thors to an expo and wait a 2 minutes until your PF is up, then you go about your merry way.
And I've beaten plenty of terrans as zerg, because it's my best race (played Z before I switched to random). But when a T knows what he is doing at every stage of the game, I just feel like I'm the one constantly doing the reacting, instead of forcing the T to react. Which seems counter-intuitive based on what the races are "supposed" to be in concept.
And just to stay on subject, that Ultra vs. PF thing is clearly broken, and will probably only need a minor tweak to fix the splash system. Even still, the PF mechanic needs to be reworked, in my opinion, so that it comes at a much greater risk.
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Zerg should get to keep this. I'm a Toss, I've played against it, and Terran still feels more imbalanced to me. Marauders vs buildings > 1.1 Ultras. Let the zerg have something.
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On September 22 2010 07:48 gillon wrote:
Looks retarded, and doesn't make sense. It is now basically impossible to repair anything as soon ultras attack it. Should be changed.
I disagree. PFs should be considered strong versus any mid game push. They should not be as strong late game.
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On September 23 2010 03:40 SlowBlink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:36 bLah. wrote:On September 23 2010 03:22 Grond wrote:
I tested Ultra vs Marauder before the patch and just tested it again. If anything it is now smaller.Before the patch the radius was 3 Marauders, now it is 2. Dude, problem isn't Ultra vs Marauder. Problem is with big units, when Ultra hits Thor it will hit all units around it in 2 radius. which means that if it attacks Thor it can attack 10 marauders around it. Which means you should learn to spread your units out. Oh no, more than 1 control group for 200/200 army? brb crying imba Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:40 summerloud wrote:
what about ultras hitting colossi now? wont that splash half the toss' army now? If you've got colossi in a spot where an ultralisk can hit it, that's your fault for having bad micro. If you've got a wall of stalker/zealots out front where they should be, an ultra can't even touch it.
Oh why don't we have Blizzard increase tank splash radius to like 6 and when u QQ, we'll just let you know that u gotta micro your zerglings so that they're spread apart.
The problem here is that it's a bug, that it goes against the game mechanism.
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It's really ridiculous they let this patch out, especially considering they had so long to work on it. They should be embarrassed. The ultra "buff" is cool, except it doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying they didn't need to give something (like how about letting corruption work on PF, or let infestors NP like they used to?) to zerg, but buffing a tier 3 unit to solve an easily fixable repair problem, is stupid. All they had to do was change the priority on the repairing scvs. Make them equal to scvs attacking. It's like curing a headache by cutting off the head.
There is still a lot of stuff wrong with this game and tons of improvements they could make. Marauders need to be toned down in some way (+25 gas, take off stim or something, these haven't been touched and terran is still balanced as if roaches cost 1 food), reapers should have been given a separate building and have the old build time. Why were zealots nerfed? I didn't find them that hard to deal with, same with BCs (though the 1 BC mass repair rush was pretty imba). If you lets them get mass BCs, your ground army was going to die no matter what.
I haven't played vs mass reaper since patch, but I can imagine not much has changed. They don't get as many and can still easily transition off into marauders.
I just hope they don't try to save face by adding a tremor animation to attacked buildings. Like yeah, I'm sure that's what you were going for Blizzard.
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Ok so terran should l2p? I usually just fungal growth the scvs so they cant repair put one ultra on those and the rest of the ultras on the PF. No repair for the PF and all the SCVs dies pretty quickly. I'm a random player so I'm not taking terrans side. But come on the graphics of this situation suggest otherwise?
With a bit of micro you can do the same the way you are supposed to... The only people who think this is actually cool is all the 1a-heroes out there!
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On September 23 2010 04:06 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 07:48 gillon wrote:
Looks retarded, and doesn't make sense. It is now basically impossible to repair anything as soon ultras attack it. Should be changed. I disagree. PFs should be considered strong versus any mid game push. They should not be as strong late game.
Ok and having this stupid splash damage is the fix to this?? There are many ways around this and if you cannot see that then you should not be posting.
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Funny because Zerg was crying about Terran all the time, and a lot of things were over reactions. Now roles have switched and instead of Terran's telling Zerg not to one control group their army it's the opposite. Funny how things work, and pretty pathetic.
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On September 23 2010 04:20 positron. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 04:06 Fantistic wrote:On September 22 2010 07:48 gillon wrote:
Looks retarded, and doesn't make sense. It is now basically impossible to repair anything as soon ultras attack it. Should be changed. I disagree. PFs should be considered strong versus any mid game push. They should not be as strong late game. Ok and having this stupid splash damage is the fix to this?? There are many ways around this and if you cannot see that then you should not be posting.
hundreds of suggestions have been given to blizzard
better ai
better priority
better pathing
make it so the twin cannon does FRIENDLY splash, so it kills their SCV as well
add hitboxes around buildings so the splash does not go all the way around
They ignore it though. And just pile on the zerg nerfs, telling us to play better.
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lol i'm playing straight ultra rushes tonight, if this isn't a bug i'm pretty sure the servers are gonna be 100% zerg by the end of the week.
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EPT
