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On September 22 2010 21:43 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 21:40 raidmaster wrote:When Zerg has to make 800 minerals worth of speedlings to prevent 400 minerals worth of Hellions from killing more than 6 free drones.
This is called "a counter". Try getting roaches/spines, might help, lol. Just like ultra is called a counter to planetary fortress...
Thats a strange comparison. Marauders, stalkers, tanks, immortals, etc are a "counter" to buildings too, but they dont rape every worker nearby while they hit the building.
I dont think this is really too game breaking, considering how hard ultras are to get. But I still think its ridiculous how people are trying to defend this. Its kind of like people complaining about the new tank nerf, not considering that tanks did 35 damage to small units in BW too (and without smart firing). Zerg players wouldnt be demanding this change stay in place if it never happened in the first place.
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There's an easy solution to this:
Remove the PF as it was a terrible idea from the start and never makes a game more entertaining, just less so.
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On September 22 2010 21:16 Pekkz wrote:
The terrans complaining should just think about what they can do to counter this again.
1. You can make supply depots or bunkers around your PF to make the area of attack smaller.
2. You can actually RUN YOUR SCV away, like zerg and protoss has to.
3. You can support the expo by having units close by. God forbit you should have to defend your bases with units.
The aoe may be a little to large, but it should still kill every scv trying to repair pretty much instantly.
I don't think many Terran players really give a shit if Ultras kill a planetary fortress in a more efficient manner than they have in the past. What IS annoying is people like you going nuts to defend this bug NOT because it's a good idea but simply to spite people.
You really think if someone would have posted a Telekinetic Ultralisk topic that anyone would take it seriously?
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On September 22 2010 22:06 RivalryRedux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 21:16 Pekkz wrote:
The terrans complaining should just think about what they can do to counter this again.
1. You can make supply depots or bunkers around your PF to make the area of attack smaller.
2. You can actually RUN YOUR SCV away, like zerg and protoss has to.
3. You can support the expo by having units close by. God forbit you should have to defend your bases with units.
The aoe may be a little to large, but it should still kill every scv trying to repair pretty much instantly.
I don't think many Terran players really give a shit if Ultras kill a planetary fortress in a more efficient manner than they have in the past. What IS annoying is people like you going nuts to defend this bug NOT because it's a good idea but simply to spite people. You really think if someone would have posted a Telekinetic Ultralisk topic that anyone would take it seriously? You are the overzealous one here - the very concept of bug cannot exist in a value free analysis
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i just ran some tests with unit tester and it seams that the splash around buildings is not connected with the size of the building. all units about 2-2.5 radius around any building will get splashed. even with a sensor tower surronded by scvs 3 lines of scvs will get splashed
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On September 22 2010 22:11 lovewithlea wrote:
i just ran some tests with unit tester and it seams that the splash around buildings is not connected with the size of the building. all units about 2-2.5 radius around any building will get splashed. even with a sensor tower surronded by scvs 3 lines of scvs will get splashed
Works that same way in battle?...
If you attack a marauder, and theres 3 lined marines next to it, they will take damage as well >>
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I love how people only see the Planetary Fortress in this, this bug affects all races and buildings and sooner or later you're going to get fucked by it...
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On September 22 2010 22:12 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 22:11 lovewithlea wrote:
i just ran some tests with unit tester and it seams that the splash around buildings is not connected with the size of the building. all units about 2-2.5 radius around any building will get splashed. even with a sensor tower surronded by scvs 3 lines of scvs will get splashed Works that same way in battle?... If you attack a marauder, and theres 3 lined marines next to it, they will take damage as well >>
no it obviously only works with buildings, so a bunker surrounded by units will make ultras kill the units faster for example
edit: sorry false info there. splash is allaround the target you attack be it unit or building. all around that target even if scvs holding postions besides the ultra they get splashed like 3 lines around the marauder.
but that was the same before 1.1 wasn't it?
edit2: i just wanted to point out that the radius of the building does not increase the radius of the splash. there just is a bigger inner radius around which the splash radius circles. so yes a bigger building will get you a bigger splash area but units dont need to stand further away of a CC than a depot to not get splashed
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On September 22 2010 22:06 RivalryRedux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 21:16 Pekkz wrote:
The terrans complaining should just think about what they can do to counter this again.
1. You can make supply depots or bunkers around your PF to make the area of attack smaller.
2. You can actually RUN YOUR SCV away, like zerg and protoss has to.
3. You can support the expo by having units close by. God forbit you should have to defend your bases with units.
The aoe may be a little to large, but it should still kill every scv trying to repair pretty much instantly.
I don't think many Terran players really give a shit if Ultras kill a planetary fortress in a more efficient manner than they have in the past. What IS annoying is people like you going nuts to defend this bug NOT because it's a good idea but simply to spite people. You really think if someone would have posted a Telekinetic Ultralisk topic that anyone would take it seriously?
What the fuck are you talking about. I gave some pointers of how you could still have solid PF expo, and finished it up by saying i think the radius of the aoe is a little large, but should still kill the workers trying to repair it.
My post was only reasonable, but i guess you are too worked up about this change to listen to reason.
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This is clearly as OP as 20 workers repairing a PF. The sad thing is that this will be patched out and mass repair will not. 
We will get something like this:
"Since the splash mechanism of Ultralisks where to powerful when used on buildings we decided to completly remove that mechanism from the Ultralisks. Ultralisks can now only hits one target at a time."
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This is going to be removed right?
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On September 22 2010 20:24 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 19:55 Grond wrote:This probably won't do any good because people aren't reading the thread http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980105Hello Naraka,
We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have it resolved in a future patch.
Beware of Ultras!! :phttp://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628239981
We are aware of the issue BlitzKrieg, and hope to have it resolved in the future. We apologize for any inconvenience or frustration this may have caused you.
In the meantime ... fear the Ultra!It's not a bug, it's the normal attack being used instead of the Ram attack which was removed. From the Situation report: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.It's working exactly how it is supposed to. The Blue posts suggest that it was a larger buff than they intended. From what I read from the blue posts it suggest it is not the way it should be and it will be fixed. Specially if you keep reading the posts in bnet.
It's going to be changed, fixed is not a good word to use in my opinion. I'm all for a change, it should be a static value, not based on target size. The AoE is way too small when fighting Bio. It doesn't sound they regard this as an urgent issue so the patch that addresses it may also contain a PF nerf and/or a repair nerf.
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On September 22 2010 22:21 SilverPotato wrote:
This is going to be removed right?
Not removed but fixed.
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Yes. If you hit a large siege tank or large thor, the splash damage again is 2 spaces around it.
Blizzard just got hella lazy, and made ti work the exact same way on buildings, with no testing AT ALL before patch release, and got thousands of zerg players hopes up...
What ultras are doing right now is not a bug. It's working the same way it does on units.
They just forgot to nerf it for buildings before releasing the patch, because ultras need more nerf because they are so godly strong, right? =|
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On September 22 2010 21:58 papaz wrote:The op should really update the first post with the link to the blue confirming this as a bug. How could people even think this is "as intendend". No matter what the current balance is of the game seeing units not even close to a building dropping like flies because of splash damage of the center of the building is just no-no as a solution to any balance problem between the races. OP, link to the blue post confirming this as a bug: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980105
You need to distinguish between an "issue" and a "bug".
It is working as "intended" in that the removal of the building specific attack was actually a "buff" in many circumstances.
Please don't use your bias to label this a "bug" since it clearly is not... or do you want people to be claiming that marauders and stim is a bug since it is also over powered against buildings?
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On September 22 2010 22:21 Batch wrote:
We will get something like this:
"Since the splash mechanism of Ultralisks where to powerful when used on buildings we decided to completly remove that mechanism from the Ultralisks. Ultralisks can now only hits one target at a time."
i really would not be surprised if blizz would take this route. or ram being re-introduced
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I have just now successfully read throught this whole thread, That means every single post. I will now give a brief summary of the post so far to people who do not wish to read through everything.
The general consensus is that this is a bug and it will be hotfixed. Blizzard has also stated that this indeed a bug and will be fixed. They think it seems strange that a couple ultralisks are able to attack a planetary fortress and kill everything in a radius of 3 range.
There is however some people who welcome this new feature and think it is completely reasonable. They feel that the planetary fortress was unbalanced and too strong before the patch.With this new feature the game will be slightly more balanced, because now they are able to kill a planetary fortress even with scvs repairing it.
This is something that was not achievable before the patch, unless you sent a 100 supply army to kill the planetary fortress, and even then you would only have a few units remaining.
Here are some of the opinions people have about ultralisks in the new patch:
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, no more retarded 1 PF kills entire zerg army bullshit. Should see breakable terrans now YEY
Ultralisk drop is gonna be the new reaver drop Drop one, attack commandcenter/nexus, GG. People will have to be quick to move workers, this is actually really good change.
1500m/1000g in Zerg units beats 1050m/225g (not counting SCVs) in Terran units. Terrans cry for nerf when repair doesn't save them.
Shouldn't be patched. Ultralisk are our strongest unit, and for it to be pissed on by a PF and its army of retarded scvs is fucking lame (AI and all that). Finally a way to kill PFs with ground army. Fantastic idea.
my hatcheries manage to kill 0 of ur 4 marauders that kill it in 10 seconds before jumping into medivac and cruising home.
I can't believe zerg get one thing that is SLIGHTLY powerful, on a unit that doesn't come out the first 15 minutes of the game, and terrans are yelling for a nerf....
That terran, like almost every other one, had NO army there to protect his GOLD EXPANSION.
He's just like "lul, i can repair this thing forever, just make some turrets to stop muta and I'm all good.
Jesus, this is not OP. This just makes ultra finally actually good in base destruction.
I seriously can't believe some people are complaining about this...
Compared to what t can do vs z, this is perfectly balanced.
Yay ultras. ^^
So i need to make broodlords to counter a building, maby i didnt get your sarcasm, sry.
Sweet terran tears, QQing that they cant send 30 SCVs to repair a PF and survive armageddon
The terrans complaining should just think about what they can do to counter this again.
1. You can make supply depots or bunkers around your PF to make the area of attack smaller.
2. You can actually RUN YOUR SCV away, like zerg and protoss has to.
3. You can support the expo by having units close by. God forbit you should have to defend your bases with units.
The aoe may be a little to large, but it should still kill every scv trying to repair pretty much instantly.
OMGZ 1200 MINERALS AND 800 GAS WORTH OF ARMY DESTROID A PF?????
Next on the list: When Zerg has to make 800 minerals worth of speedlings to prevent 400 minerals worth of Hellions from killing more than 6 free drones.
In conclusion there are many different opinions about this patch. And there are both pros and cons to this new ultralisk ability. The near future is uncertain, but blizzard have said they will look into this problem sooner or later (Blizzard time).
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what is revealing is that blizzard never actually thought to test this, in the month that they spent since announcing the change. that shows that they dont even know how devastating repaired pf's are, if they never tested ultras against them in a whole month. which just goes to show that blizzard doesnt know a thing about their games, and people trusting them to provide a balanced experience are delusional.
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On September 22 2010 22:06 Gigaudas wrote:
There's an easy solution to this:
Remove the PF as it was a terrible idea from the start and never makes a game more entertaining, just less so.
That's pretty stupid. PF are a part of late game terran strategy. Do you sacrifice mules and scans for added defense? Do you use resources on a mobile army, or on beastly base defense? PFs may be OP. I'm not really entitled to say, but the idea of them is good. I for one would like us to retain some strategy in this RTS and not just micro.
As for the ultras why not see what comes of it? No it's not realistic, but so what? I can't wait till we see idra or dimaga planting offensive hatcheries to reinforce ultras by attacking their own hatcheries when enemies are nearby (this may be a totally stupid idea, but I'm sure we will see some creative play come from this "feature").
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On September 22 2010 22:13 FliedLice wrote:
I love how people only see the Planetary Fortress in this, this bug affects all races and buildings and sooner or later you're going to get fucked by it...
Good post. This can affect every single matchup significantly, even ZvZ....Ultralisk attacks a hatchery, all drones/tech buildings near hatchery take splash, etc..
It's a silly bug and will be fixed.
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EPT
