EPTUltras vs Repaired PF - Page 34
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
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csfield
United States206 Posts
On September 22 2010 08:40 hoopaholik91 wrote: This is pretty ridiculous. I mean I understand that ultras are the counter to planetary fortresses, and I don't mind the fact that they can nullify them. The problem I see is an ultralisk drop onto a CC or Nexus. One ultralisk will be able to hit 30 scvs at once unless the player can pull off the SCV's in a fraction of a second before it hits. Really crazy in my opinion. I know. That would be almost as crazy as dropping pre-igniter hellions on a mineral line. | ||
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Leopoldshark
United States176 Posts
 Ultras still aren't very effective vs. units considering the amount of tech required and cost/time. I would still like them to get more use, just not to abuse a bug. | ||
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hdkhang
Australia183 Posts
On September 22 2010 18:16 NicksonReyes wrote: I'm a terran yet I approve this change(if this isn't a bug) but the only problem is how that makes much sense(for a military science fiction game) for a unit without psionic powers to kill something physically without reaching it. How does an SCV repair air units without actually being able to reach it? How do they repair flying buildings without being able to reach it? How do they build a building from within a bunker? | ||
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KiiroFOD
1 Post
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 22 2010 19:39 Umpteen wrote: [/i]I wouldn't be so quick to call others shortsighted, you know. After all, you can build OC's anywhere. There's absolutely nothing to stop you putting a PF at an expansion [iand building an extra OC somewhere safe to call more mules down at that expansion. Since you get supply from the OC as well as mules/scan, it's pretty good value. I've actually been thinking about that and I guess we'll see lots more OC's at the minerals or somewhere safe and just a PF near it to just be there for the static defense. It's actually easily worth the minerals, cuz the 550 minerals cost of the OC are returned with just 2 mules! AND you get supply and can pump out SCV's faster for it as well. So Terran can basically plant OC's everywhere and get their minerals back within minutes, which will greatly improve the Terrans eco and allow him to just put PF's everywhere they need to have incredibly strong static defense. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On September 22 2010 19:29 Manifesto7 wrote: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628239981?page=1#2 It really helps if you read the thread. Nowhere in that message was it called a bug. It's important to use proper terminology. My whole point is they they wouldn't call something like this a bug, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts. | ||
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hdkhang
Australia183 Posts
On September 22 2010 19:29 Manifesto7 wrote: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628239981?page=1#2 It really helps if you read the thread. Actually, it is stated as an "issue" and not a bug. There is a difference. The damage is "as intended" based on what the change entailed... the reason it is an issue is that the change makes large radius buildings/units a liability. I mean they already reduced Thor size once which reduced the effect of the Ultra's splash damage. | ||
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Mr_Kzimir
France268 Posts
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
Edit: On the other hand, I guess it's only fair  KARMA!! | ||
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alkampfer
116 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 22 2010 19:48 Jenslyn87 wrote: Needs patching right away Edit: On the other hand, I guess it's only fair KARMA!!Yeah, patch it RIGHT AWAY in 2 months.... PF's are ridiculously OP and Zerg didn't have any options killing it without using up a ridiculous amount of Minerals/Gas and sac tons of Banelings into it or going Air and hoping that Terran was stupid enough not to have a proper counter rdy. This is definitely not an urgent matter to be patched, especially after that joke-patch, that doesn't really help Zerg in TvZ. I guess the only thing Zerg can hope for to have better chances in the MU's is if Blizzard F's up and makes little mistakes like that... | ||
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Defrag
Poland414 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980105 Hello Naraka, We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have it resolved in a future patch. Beware of Ultras!! :p http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628239981 We are aware of the issue BlitzKrieg, and hope to have it resolved in the future. We apologize for any inconvenience or frustration this may have caused you. In the meantime ... fear the Ultra! It's not a bug, it's the normal attack being used instead of the Ram attack which was removed. From the Situation report: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221 The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target. It's working exactly how it is supposed to. The Blue posts suggest that it was a larger buff than they intended. | ||
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hdkhang
Australia183 Posts
On September 22 2010 19:45 kickinhead wrote: [/i]I've actually been thinking about that and I guess we'll see lots more OC's at the minerals or somewhere safe and just a PF near it to just be there for the static defense. It's actually easily worth the minerals, cuz the 550 minerals cost of the OC are returned with just 2 mules! AND you get supply and can pump out SCV's faster for it as well. So Terran can basically plant OC's everywhere and get their minerals back within minutes, which will greatly improve the Terrans eco and allow him to just put PF's everywhere they need to have incredibly strong static defense. The cost It's ridiculous that a static Defense can be so powerful and yet be so cost effective. Supply depot --> 8 supply for 100, or 12.5 minerals per supply. Planetary fortress --> 550/150 for 11 supply (12.5*11 = 137.5) means the additionaly cost is really just about 400/150. Lets take the usual gas = 2 minerals. So total cost is 700 resources. Which would you rather have, 4-5 spine crawlers or a planetary fortress? @VanGarde You can't claim that something costs the lost opportunity of potential resources otherwise every damned zerg unit --> unit cost + 1 resource / second due to loss of larvae not being used for drones throughout a game. | ||
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csfield
United States206 Posts
On September 22 2010 09:02 VanGarde wrote:Shortsighted people like to point out that a PF costs 550/150. It doesn't. It costs that PLUS 250-300 minerals every 30 seconds or however long it takes for an orbital command to gain 50 energy. The longer a PF is up the more expensive it gets. So when you are getting a PF you pretty much have to determine if it is worth the ridiculous amount of lost income to get that extra defense. Now previously this has been the case for bases that are likely to come under a lot of attack because the fact that you can repair your PF means that the cost effectivity remains pretty balanced. Yes you loose income all the time over a long period of time but the repairability also means that you can retain the building over a long period of time. Shortsighted people like to point out that a spawning pool costs 200 minerals. It doesn't. It costs that PLUS 39-45 minerals every minute. The longer a spawning pool is up the more expensive it gets. Even worse, this applies to all zerg buildings. So in the midgame if I have a spawning pool, 4 hatcheries, a spire, 2 evolution chambers, a baneling nest, a roach warren, 4 spine crawlers, and 6 extractors, I basically need to dedicate an entire mining base just to mintaining the opportunity cost of my buildings. If I run out of resources, I won't even have a way to pay for that. | ||
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Yenticha
257 Posts
ultras vs PF = equal cost fight (roughly), unless Terran is unaware of this patch and tries to repair. So, balance wise, this "bug" is completely ok. However, I do think this looks retarded. So, they should fix it, but buff the AI or pathfinding of ultras at the same time.. | ||
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
The risk of having a planetary fortress (or any CC/OC) taken out so quickly by a few ultralisks makes troop deployment decisions especially relevant, and should dissuade us terrans from turtling too much in one place. Either that or suiciding some banshees to kill off the ultralisk cavern. Either way it's aggressive. | ||
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SkyDiDeLY
Netherlands51 Posts
On September 22 2010 18:59 Pulimuli wrote: Ultras has always raped PF with or without SCV's repairing it Even without this "glitch" Ultras would still take down a fortress in a matter of seconds Actually, I believe this isnt true at all.. Ultras had a hard time taking down a PF with SCV's repairing it from the other side.. you had to micro your way through the scvs and other units and around the PF so you could get good splash damage on the scv's, and after that you could start beating the PF because otherwise the scvs would repair the PF faster than the ultras could kill it.. At that point all your ultras were dead O_O | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On September 22 2010 15:36 cArn- wrote: If terrans had that kind of static defense they wouldn't need PFs in the first place, so mb ppl can stop talking crap already. Not every race needs to have everything every other race has, they are supposed to be different (sound familiar?) terran doesnt need PFs, they have turrets and bunkers. just like how zerg doesnt have any AA till t2. PF is just a crutch for bad players | ||
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