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On September 22 2010 08:21 rsol wrote:
not pictured: all the other scvs at all the other expansions also exploding
That made me laugh a fair bit.
This isn't necessarily overpowered or anything, looks weird though. My biggest issue with this is that it destroys adjacent buildings as well, which are kind of required. Ling-tight simcities to lessen the damage of drops/nydus are somewhat of a necessity (especially in the early-mid game). This will hurt protoss the most since they can't just reposition their buildings once ultras pop out.
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On September 22 2010 09:39 SpaceYeti wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:37 tacrats wrote:On September 22 2010 09:34 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:26 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:24 MassAirUnits wrote:On September 22 2010 09:22 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:19 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:18 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:13 Whomp wrote:
You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p Ye, its hilarious. Terran has 5 ways to harass a expansion. Zerg had ZERO ways to harass terran expo with PF. Now there is a tier 3 unit that can do it, and all terrans here scream imbalance, its so god damn funny  Really? Zero? Do you play this game? Please don't make Zerg look bad.  Ok, enlighten me how im gonna kill or harass a PF with turrets around it, i would love to know. Brood Lords? So i need to make broodlords to counter a building, maby i didnt get your sarcasm, sry. No, but you might need to make a "siege unit" to break an entrenched position head on. broodlords wont do shit. scvs outrepair BL damage from 6 BLs. U cant even pick off the scvs because they just move to the other side of the PF once u start attacking them. by the time a terran sees BLs he can just get a starport switched with a reactored building and make a few vikings which can sit over the PF and pwn ur BLs. Sorry, BLs aint the answer. You know, you *could* target the SCVs. :p It's not like the brood lord is at risk of dying to a PF anytime soon. :D
you obviously didnt even read what i said. the scvs MOVE AWAY to the other side of the PF , and the BLs moving any closer to target the SCVS would bring then in firing range of the terran turrets or ground army. u cant even protect the BLs with ur ground army because then they will be too close to the PF.
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This will be ridiculously imbalanced... doesn't really add up.
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You know, I tend to read entire threads if I intend to reply to them- as I did this time- so as not to repeat a question or comment that has been asked a dozen times, but fucking hell, the number of complete idiots in this thread is making my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels.
The chances that this was intended are very slim... I love Blizzard as much as the next guy, but assuming that they can do no wrong just because this patch took a while is retarded.
To the morons saying that this is Tue much-needed counter to PFs, realize that this isn't limited to just one building, and it won't only behave this way against P and T. Zerg will have to face this too should a game make it far enough for Ultras to get out (which they might now due to this change).
The fix, I think, should be fairly easy for this bug: simply make the splash originate.from the point of impact when attacking buildings. Problem solved.
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On September 22 2010 09:39 Pekkz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:31 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:22 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:19 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:18 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:13 Whomp wrote:
You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p Ye, its hilarious. Terran has 5 ways to harass a expansion. Zerg had ZERO ways to harass terran expo with PF. Now there is a tier 3 unit that can do it, and all terrans here scream imbalance, its so god damn funny Really? Zero? Do you play this game? Please don't make Zerg look bad. Ok, enlighten me how im gonna kill or harass a PF with turrets around it, i would love to know. And dont say banelings, they die before they can scrach the scvs and prolly cost more then the PF to begin with. Lol. Micro and positioning are your friends....or they should be. Banelings can easily reach SCVs on a PF protected mineral line unless you're A-moving them in with no other attention paid to them. Also, two fungal growths kill SCVs. Wanna get your banelings in? Spam ITs by the PF (spread them and it's even better) and roll those puppies on in. There are lots of ways to harass a Terran player in midgame if you are imaginative and especially use infestors. Post something that happens above your bronze league. Never seen a high level game where a zerg has successfully harassed a PF with turrets without taking massive losses. Are you also serious about zerg having to invest in mass infestors + banelings ( hello gass?) to take down a PF? Terran will only counter attack and own you after you used silly ammouny of resources/energy on taking down a building. To do somthing like that you need to be miles ahead. You just crack me up man SpaceYeti.391 - Bronze league material. Look it up. 
Anyway, people have given you plenty of tips on how to deal with this, but you can choose to ignore them and keep losing games, that's no skin off my back.
Or, you could actually *try* to think outside the 1a2a3a mass roach/hydra box and consider that other players may actually have helpful solutions to your problems.
Either way, I'm done trying to help you. As Day[9] would say, "there's no value in being right on the internet...take your knowledge and go win games."
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Actually, I want to point something important out (Whether or not it's already been mentioned in this thread, it's good to hear it again).
The fact that Blizzard didn't catch this before the patch went live makes it very obvious that they simply don't fucking understand a lot of the problems in TvZ.
The thought process for ANY group of people that understand Planetary Fortresses are currently too strong would be:
"Ultralisks aren't doing enough damage against tightly packed buildings. Ultralisks are often used to attack Planetary Fortresses. SCVs always repair Planetary Fortresses. Let's attack a Planetary Fortress with an Ultralisk while it's being repaired by SCVs."
The fact that Blizzard never even tested the new Ultralisk against it's most common target-building is disgusting, and indicates that they really have no idea as to how isolated things like the Planetary Fortress are hurting Zerg.
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France2061 Posts
This is great. I'm glad it's staying this way for a while at least.
On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
herp derp. With this kind of logic, every Zerg structure costs an infinite amount of minerals because you lose a drone that could've spent the game mining.
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On September 22 2010 09:42 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost. Are you seriously complaining about not having MULEs when your fortress can kill a 50-100 supply army of zerglings and roaches and hydra?
What? No? I am explaining why the PF has to be so cost effective against units. Otherwise you would never ever get it over an OC.
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On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost.
If i didnt turn my 14 drone into a pool, he could have made me 2k minerals over the course of the game!
Protip: people wouldnt get a PF if there wasnt a reason to, regardless of how expensive it is.
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On September 22 2010 09:30 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:28 Manifesto7 wrote:Posts like these: You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p terran tears are so fucking delicious... Are not acceptable. Discuss the game, don't post bullshit about what race people play. You serious? People say that shit all the time about zerg. At least the first post you quoted has some game facts intertwined.
Most people are rude against whiny Zergs because they make alot of whiny Zerg threads, which are really annoying. Acting like this invisible splash is justified just shows why most gamers aren't in charge of game balance.
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wow ultras look hotter than megan fox.
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On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost.
You are completely wrong in no way does building a fortress cost you minerals all it means is you dont mine out as fast, there is a big difference there.
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whats funny to me is that they admit they are aware of the issue yet this whole thing happens in the middle of a 200,000 dollar tournament, the GSL LOL
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On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost.
Are you seriously complaining about PF cost? PF is better then any ammount of spinecrawlers, so you could then say that zerg expansion could cost 1,5k minerals plus drones lol.
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On September 22 2010 09:45 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:30 tacrats wrote:On September 22 2010 09:28 Manifesto7 wrote:Posts like these: You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p terran tears are so fucking delicious... Are not acceptable. Discuss the game, don't post bullshit about what race people play. You serious? People say that shit all the time about zerg. At least the first post you quoted has some game facts intertwined. Most people are rude against whiny Zergs because they make alot of whiny Zerg threads, which are really annoying. Acting like this invisible splash is justified just shows why most gamers aren't in charge of game balance.
IMO only reason why zergs whine so much is because terrans wont admit theres a problem. If they admitted the obvious it would all be put to rest.
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On September 22 2010 09:45 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:30 tacrats wrote:On September 22 2010 09:28 Manifesto7 wrote:Posts like these: You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p terran tears are so fucking delicious... Are not acceptable. Discuss the game, don't post bullshit about what race people play. You serious? People say that shit all the time about zerg. At least the first post you quoted has some game facts intertwined. Most people are rude against whiny Zergs because they make alot of whiny Zerg threads, which are really annoying. Acting like this invisible splash is justified just shows why most gamers aren't in charge of game balance.
So your only argument is that it's invisible? If Blizzard pulled the Pulverize effect from WC3 data files and put it there it would be ok? Because it most certainly isn't a balance problem that would break any matchup.
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On September 22 2010 09:44 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost. If i didnt turn my 14 drone into a pool, he could have made me 2k minerals over the course of the game! Protip: people wouldnt get a PF if there wasnt a reason to, regardless of how expensive it is.
Yes, that is also true. The drone used to make a zerg building is lost income. Ofcourse both of you who are using this is an example are just missing the point. When you make a building from a drone you are not at a fork in the road where you choose between two options that can be weighed against each other. You HAVE to make a pool obviously and thus that logic does not apply to this example.
A correct example would be the decision between making a spine crawler and not, you loose income over time by making a spine crawler, thus it is a loss to make one, a loss that should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.
Ofcourse it is still not a very related example because the difference in scale is so far off. The income we are talking about when choosing between OC and PF are in scales way way above the cost of a spine crawler.
Protip: Good terran players will avoid getting a PF. It is a defeat in itself to have to build a PF at an expansion.
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That was so beautiful. If something at least a little bit like this stays in effect, maybe terrans won't be able to just leave their expos behind and wreak havoc on our mains with impunity any longer :-)
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Splash is obviously supposed to be calculated from the point of damage, not the entire unit that is taking damage. WTF blizzard?
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EPT
