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On September 22 2010 09:46 Antiochus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost. You are completely wrong in no way does building a fortress cost you minerals all it means is you dont mine out as fast, there is a big difference there.
It is a cost, it is not the same cost as if the resources are taken out of your already mined resources but it is the same kind of cost that you would suffer by loosing workers to harass. Yeah, you could argue that it is not a huge deal if you loose all your probes to hellion harass because all it means is you don't mine out as fast.
Please learn rts economy.
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so that might mean the next patch has to come a little bit faster
although why care it wont change shit other than fix ultras and increase/decrease a random units build time by 1%
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On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost.
But why stop at 12 minutes of play? At 42 minutes of play the 'true' cost of a PF is 7560/150. After 60 mins 10800/150. In longer games a PF costs terran an entire base worth of minerals!
This line of reasoning is asinine, knock it off.
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On September 22 2010 09:47 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:45 Saechiis wrote:On September 22 2010 09:30 tacrats wrote:On September 22 2010 09:28 Manifesto7 wrote:Posts like these: You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p terran tears are so fucking delicious... Are not acceptable. Discuss the game, don't post bullshit about what race people play. You serious? People say that shit all the time about zerg. At least the first post you quoted has some game facts intertwined. Most people are rude against whiny Zergs because they make alot of whiny Zerg threads, which are really annoying. Acting like this invisible splash is justified just shows why most gamers aren't in charge of game balance. IMO only reason why zergs whine so much is because terrans wont admit theres a problem. If they admitted the obvious it would all be put to rest.
Why do Terrans have to admit anything? As I said, they aren't in charge of game balance nor are Zerg or Protoss. Everyone is inevitably a bit biased towards his own race, that's why there's an unbiased third party doing the patching.
Count the number of Zergs in this thread denying this invisible splash is a problem. How are they any different from Terran denying imbalance?
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On September 22 2010 09:43 SpaceYeti wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:39 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:31 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:22 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:19 SpaceYeti wrote:On September 22 2010 09:18 Pekkz wrote:On September 22 2010 09:13 Whomp wrote:
You terrans QQ'ing know how fast you can kill a hive with the same amount of stimmed marauders compared to those ultras? Just pull away your workers much like we have to do when you have banshees, helions, thor drops, marauder drops, viking lands and cliffed tanks. seriously l2p Ye, its hilarious. Terran has 5 ways to harass a expansion. Zerg had ZERO ways to harass terran expo with PF. Now there is a tier 3 unit that can do it, and all terrans here scream imbalance, its so god damn funny  Really? Zero? Do you play this game? Please don't make Zerg look bad.  Ok, enlighten me how im gonna kill or harass a PF with turrets around it, i would love to know. And dont say banelings, they die before they can scrach the scvs and prolly cost more then the PF to begin with. Lol. Micro and positioning are your friends....or they should be. Banelings can easily reach SCVs on a PF protected mineral line unless you're A-moving them in with no other attention paid to them. Also, two fungal growths kill SCVs. Wanna get your banelings in? Spam ITs by the PF (spread them and it's even better) and roll those puppies on in. There are lots of ways to harass a Terran player in midgame if you are imaginative and especially use infestors. Post something that happens above your bronze league. Never seen a high level game where a zerg has successfully harassed a PF with turrets without taking massive losses. Are you also serious about zerg having to invest in mass infestors + banelings ( hello gass?) to take down a PF? Terran will only counter attack and own you after you used silly ammouny of resources/energy on taking down a building. To do somthing like that you need to be miles ahead. You just crack me up man SpaceYeti.391 - Bronze league material. Look it up.  Anyway, people have given you plenty of tips on how to deal with this, but you can choose to ignore them and keep losing games, that's no skin off my back. Or, you could actually *try* to think outside the 1a2a3a mass roach/hydra box and consider that other players may actually have helpful solutions to your problems. Either way, I'm done trying to help you. As Day[9] would say, "there's no value in being right on the internet...take your knowledge and go win games."
Your help is not applyable in diamond league. You ignore what I wrote and instead type some random things thats got nothing to do with this thread. If you would like to post a replay where you cost effectivly take down or harass a PF with towers around, be my guest, else just stop writing bullshit.
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Imagine if Cool (fruitseller) wins the GSL massing ultras. haha.
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Just to help all those people out there who seem to be lacking in creativity:
It was a regular working day for Steve the scv. As he stood there drilling away in the shining golden crystals, he suddenly heard a deep rumbling. All the scv's stopped working for a moment and Steve looked at his colleagues and saw the fear in their eyes. He had only heard rumors of the giant creatures of death, but all the stories of death and destruction had started with the rumbling.
Surely they would be safe in the shadow of the mighty Planetary Fortress. But the rumbling grew louder with every passing moment. Then he saw them and dropped his crystal out of sheer horror. Standing as tall as the fortess itself were three of these giants of beasts. The destroyers of worlds, the crushers of armies, the mighty Ultralisk with claws the size of depos and rage in their eyes. With the first impact of these giant claws the building shook to its foundations. The earth was breaking up around the fortress and debris was falling everywhere. Soon all three of the beasts were pounding on the fortress and the ground shook like an earthquake of doom. Commands were shouted around in a desperate attempt to save the fortress. While being commanded to repair the building, Steve thought back of home and the argument with his wife. "Don't go work at the gold expansion" she had wisely said, "it is too exposed". But Steve's greed had gotten the better of him. Through the maze of broken up ground and colleagues crushed by debris, he knew he drove into his doom. If only the order to evacuate had been given... If only....
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On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost.
And how much income does a destroyed orbital command bring in?
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I'm a Zerg player, and this definetly looks bugged to me. The way this clip looks (european server here, patch is not yet up), the workers would have even been slaughtered if they just kept mining.
I fully understand any Z player that is overjoyus that he doesn't have to waste half an army anymore if he even wants to touch a PF - still, the way it looks atm is just as overpowered as the repaired PF. The clip looks the same way as if there had been 8 Marauders and some stimmed Marines attacking the PF. Building instantly down, workers instantly down.
Instead of appreciating a borderline overpowered ability because the other races have compareable stuff, we should hope that our real problems will be adressed, instead of having one t3 unit that is able to fight buildings...
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Ultralisk splash is target radius+2.5. If they have a gigantic building targeted then they will have a gigantic attack range, but the splash radius is still only +2.5 of the target's size. If Blizzard didn't realize this in the 3 months they spent testing 5 minor changes then I don't know what to say.
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On September 22 2010 09:55 Mr Tambourine Man wrote:
Just to help all those people out there who seem to be lacking in creativity:
It was a regular working day for Steve the scv. As he stood there drilling away in the shining golden crystals, he suddenly heard a deep rumbling. All the scv's stopped working for a moment and Steve looked at his colleagues and saw the fear in their eyes. He had only heard rumors of the giant creatures of death, but all the stories of death and destruction had started with the rumbling.
Surely they would be safe in the shadow of the mighty Planetary Fortress. But the rumbling grew louder with every passing moment. Then he saw them and dropped his crystal out of sheer horror. Standing as tall as the fortess itself were three of these giants of beasts. The destroyers of worlds, the crushers of armies, the mighty Ultralisk with claws the size of depos and rage in their eyes. With the first impact of these giant claws the building shook to its foundations. The earth was breaking up around the fortress and debris was falling everywhere. Soon all three of the beasts were pounding on the fortress and the ground shook like an earthquake of doom. Commands were shouted around in a desperate attempt to save the fortress. While being commanded to repair the building, Steve thought back of home and the argument with his wife. "Don't go work at the gold expansion" she had wisely said, "it is too exposed". But Steve's greed had gotten the better of him. Through the maze of broken up ground and colleagues crushed by debris, he knew he drove into his doom. If only the order to evacuate had been given... If only....
Hahahahaha. Top man
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On September 22 2010 09:54 tetracycloide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 09:39 VanGarde wrote:
Here are some numbers I'd like everyone to remember before you make statements about Planetary Fortress cost efficiency.
The PF costs 550 minerals and 150 gas AND 270 minerals every 87 seconds.
If you had turned your PF into an OC instead you would if you used every 50 energy on MULE had a MULE every 1 minute and 27 seconds. Lets say one and a half minute for simplicity.
So after just 3 minutes of play the PF has actually costed you 1090/150.
After 6 minutes 1630/150
After 12 minutes 2710/150
Terran player realize this added virtual cost and it is why it is a tough decision every time you decide between an OC and a PF. But reading threads like this makes me think that most zerg players might not quite grasp this.
This is why the PF HAS to be repairable. Because otherwise it is just not worth it cost for cost. But why stop at 12 minutes of play? At 42 minutes of play the 'true' cost of a PF is 7560/150. After 60 mins 10800/150. In longer games a PF costs terran an entire base worth of minerals! This line of reasoning is asinine, knock it off.
You stop there because it is unreasonable for a PF o a game to last that long.
It is only asinine in the minds of people who do not fully grasp how the economy in Starcraft 2 works. Which is precisely why people like you should not have a say when it comes to balance issues.
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Ultra's needed a buff, while I agree with some kind of damange increase (such as substituding ram for the faster normal attack) I do believe that this is a bit much. Zerg needs to be buffed with an overhaul for their units. Not just one late tier.
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Ive got to admit it looks weird, but i can not believe blizzard releases a patch after such a long time (since announcing it) without testing the few changes properly.
They had PF in mind when they removed Ultralisks ram attack, so i bet they testet it against PF.
A Planetary Fortress was a f**ing fortress when repaired, able to kill armies. now a single PF can be killed by three-four Ultralisks. seems fine to me.
terrans just have to remember to run away with the scv´s instead of repairing it when the pf is attacked by ultras and get some reinforcements to the expansion, just like the other two races.
eventhough a +1 attack range around the fortress would´ve had the same effect.
from a viewers perspective, the splash range looks a bit overdone but the damage seems to be a little low.
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You stop there because it is unreasonable for a PF o a game to last that long.
It is only asinine in the minds of people who do not fully grasp how the economy in Starcraft 2 works. Which is precisely why people like you should not have a say when it comes to balance issues. If you think a PF really adds up to the price of MULE over time then every zerg building adds up to the mining rate of a drone over time.
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On September 22 2010 09:55 Mr Tambourine Man wrote:
Just to help all those people out there who seem to be lacking in creativity:
It was a regular working day for Steve the scv. As he stood there drilling away in the shining golden crystals, he suddenly heard a deep rumbling. All the scv's stopped working for a moment and Steve looked at his colleagues and saw the fear in their eyes. He had only heard rumors of the giant creatures of death, but all the stories of death and destruction had started with the rumbling.
Surely they would be safe in the shadow of the mighty Planetary Fortress. But the rumbling grew louder with every passing moment. Then he saw them and dropped his crystal out of sheer horror. Standing as tall as the fortess itself were three of these giants of beasts. The destroyers of worlds, the crushers of armies, the mighty Ultralisk with claws the size of depos and rage in their eyes. With the first impact of these giant claws the building shook to its foundations. The earth was breaking up around the fortress and debris was falling everywhere. Soon all three of the beasts were pounding on the fortress and the ground shook like an earthquake of doom. Commands were shouted around in a desperate attempt to save the fortress. While being commanded to repair the building, Steve thought back of home and the argument with his wife. "Don't go work at the gold expansion" she had wisely said, "it is too exposed". But Steve's greed had gotten the better of him. Through the maze of broken up ground and colleagues crushed by debris, he knew he drove into his doom. If only the order to evacuate had been given... If only....
Wow, best post of the week by far.
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
Yeah, maybe the splash is just a little bit too good right now, considering you should at least be able to have SCVs at the back trying to repair, but SCVs no where near the PF get hit right now.
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This clearly seems like a bug.
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EPT
