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On September 18 2010 05:17 FindingPride wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 05:10 Wings wrote:On September 18 2010 04:58 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:56 vica wrote:On September 18 2010 04:48 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:46 Cade wrote:On September 18 2010 02:43 FindingPride wrote:On September 17 2010 23:05 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On September 17 2010 22:49 Zangaxx wrote:
How much better are the mechanics of these korean players? Are they far ahead on macro/multitasking? And how is there general sense of strategy compared to the western pros? We can compare to idra, who made it onto the B team who would lose to shitty A team players like MVP or Hyuk who would get rocked by solid A team players like Kal or Sea who would get stomped on by Jaedong or Flash there mechanics and macro dont transfer over. at all. As a wc3 player i was macroing better then most of the top bw players outside of korea on the ladder if anything they'll just catch up fast but we won't see any large gap in skill. There are new players arising. Hahahahahaha most unbelievably LOL worthy post I've seen on TL in the recent past. well I knew this kind of response would happen. Oh well people are just ignorant. sc is not sc2. the interface is much different. the macro mechanics are much different everything about the game is much different. There macro isn't some innate skill but rather a mental tick through lots and lots of training. Building times are much different so plz dont sit here and say they can hit barracks control group and do it much better then anyone else just because they played bw Because mechanics don't carry over. Macro is an innate skill. The skill to be able to understand and remember hundreds of timings. They have done so in Brood War, after learning every build order, and they can do the same in Starcraft 2. I can't believe you're even arguing this. really? i can guarantee they wont do as good as u think. I challenge anyone here to outmacro/outplay me. I'll prove to u BW mechanics mean nothing in sc2 pride.726 lets go : ) hahaha nobody said they were "macroing better than most of the top bw players outside of korea"... except YOU. If you want to prove your point, you should play THEM, instead of trying to act all cool and trying to save face and challenging the people laughing at you. Well I thought people outside of korea who had been playing bw for over 6+ years in the scene have good macro. I mean they have played it alot you would think that it would transfer over from bw rite? I just find it hard to believe you are so ignorant about how good these guys actually are. There is no doubt they were top of the line BW players but its just completely stupid to say oh ye they come in and win all leagues and be years ahead of everyone else. i mean cmon. They don't even dominate the ladder. I just fail to see why you guys are so up thinking there going to be the best player ever because bw players are just naturally better. I mean cmon? TLO wasn't even really a BW player. there are tons of new talent thats going to be > then old talent. It feels like preaching atheism to a group of christians.
your recent string of posts are soo ignorant, its only natural that most people are laughing at you. I mean, how can anyone take what you say seriously, when you didnt even know that TLO played a TON of broodwar.
These korean progamers are obviously going to be a step above in terms of macro/mechanics, because they have specialized in it for the last 12years. The hotkeys can all be learned, the timings can be learned, but the ability to constantly remember everything, and maintaining 400 useful apm is something only koreans have been able to do (otherwise you would see more foreigners winning in bw). Nada has already played TLO and took a game off of him, without much practice at all. Im guessing this is due to his INSANE MACRO/MECHANICS.
Lastly, its very clear you know absolutely nothing about the korean progamers, or even you would think what you just said is retarded. Fruitseller and idra are both already considered the very best of players, yet both of them failed at broodwar due to subpar mechanics. If these subpar broodwar players are cleaning house in sc2, what do you think will happen when someone as accomplished as Nada takes it serious?
All in all, in my opinion, your just clueless and very much inexperienced in the starcraft world.
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This is so awesome remember the showmatch between TLO and NaDa.
He had been playing for ONLY a few days, and competed against TLO who had around 4-5 months of playing SC2 and did really well.
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I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2?
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On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2?
I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did.
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I think guys.. Really, NaDa to TLO is sort of like... Boxer to Flash?
That may not be the best theory but.. yeah. NaDa's a bit old, whereas TLO is new and fresh. However, NaDa is still better at BW than TLO is at BW... and NaDa's played less of SC2... So in fact, I'm not even sure where I'm going with this. 
Well whatever, I think NaDa and July have great potential in SC2. XD
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On September 18 2010 09:00 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2? I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did.
Well I read earlier in this thread (so hearsay) that Nada is the highest paid BW player, so I don't think motivation is a factor. Perhaps he actually finds SC2 fun?! =P
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On September 18 2010 09:23 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 09:00 eXigent. wrote:On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2? I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did. Well I read earlier in this thread (so hearsay) that Nada is the highest paid BW player, so I don't think motivation is a factor. Perhaps he actually finds SC2 fun?! =P
There are many many billionaires in the world who still seek more fortune. Just because someone made money doing 1 thing, doesnt mean they wont work as hard as they can to make money in another. Bills are lifelong, and after reading about progamer lifestyles etc, im pretty sure Nada will run outta money more sooner than later.
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On September 18 2010 09:59 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 09:23 Ocedic wrote:On September 18 2010 09:00 eXigent. wrote:On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2? I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did. Well I read earlier in this thread (so hearsay) that Nada is the highest paid BW player, so I don't think motivation is a factor. Perhaps he actually finds SC2 fun?! =P There are many many billionaires in the world who still seek more fortune. Just because someone made money doing 1 thing, doesnt mean they wont work as hard as they can to make money in another. Bills are lifelong, and after reading about progamer lifestyles etc, im pretty sure Nada will run outta money more sooner than later.
First off (to Ocedic), NaDa hasn't been the highest paid BW player in years, though even long after his peak he did still make a very high salary for just being an icon and drawing in the fans (like Boxer). That said, your point makes no sense since he isn't making "more fortune" in this move, at least not in the short run. He gave up a salary that would require more than twice the 1st place in GSL per year, not to mention great job security. Now yes, there is a chance he can end up winning several tournaments per year and get high endorsements and come out on top financially in this move, but thats a pretty big gamble. As such, saying he moved to SC2 for the money is kind of dumb. The old generation stars really had no worries after hitting their peaks, as they were more than welcome to stay on lineups and bring the fans, become coaches, casters, etc.
He likely moved because its another chance for him to possibly shine as he once did in BW instead of being on the sidelines. Money-wise I would imagine he's doing quite fine so he won't be living off ramen while following this opportunity, and lets him see if he can possibly rise again.
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On September 18 2010 08:38 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 05:17 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 05:10 Wings wrote:On September 18 2010 04:58 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:56 vica wrote:On September 18 2010 04:48 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:46 Cade wrote:On September 18 2010 02:43 FindingPride wrote:On September 17 2010 23:05 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On September 17 2010 22:49 Zangaxx wrote:
How much better are the mechanics of these korean players? Are they far ahead on macro/multitasking? And how is there general sense of strategy compared to the western pros? We can compare to idra, who made it onto the B team who would lose to shitty A team players like MVP or Hyuk who would get rocked by solid A team players like Kal or Sea who would get stomped on by Jaedong or Flash there mechanics and macro dont transfer over. at all. As a wc3 player i was macroing better then most of the top bw players outside of korea on the ladder if anything they'll just catch up fast but we won't see any large gap in skill. There are new players arising. Hahahahahaha most unbelievably LOL worthy post I've seen on TL in the recent past. well I knew this kind of response would happen. Oh well people are just ignorant. sc is not sc2. the interface is much different. the macro mechanics are much different everything about the game is much different. There macro isn't some innate skill but rather a mental tick through lots and lots of training. Building times are much different so plz dont sit here and say they can hit barracks control group and do it much better then anyone else just because they played bw Because mechanics don't carry over. Macro is an innate skill. The skill to be able to understand and remember hundreds of timings. They have done so in Brood War, after learning every build order, and they can do the same in Starcraft 2. I can't believe you're even arguing this. really? i can guarantee they wont do as good as u think. I challenge anyone here to outmacro/outplay me. I'll prove to u BW mechanics mean nothing in sc2 pride.726 lets go : ) hahaha nobody said they were "macroing better than most of the top bw players outside of korea"... except YOU. If you want to prove your point, you should play THEM, instead of trying to act all cool and trying to save face and challenging the people laughing at you. Well I thought people outside of korea who had been playing bw for over 6+ years in the scene have good macro. I mean they have played it alot you would think that it would transfer over from bw rite? I just find it hard to believe you are so ignorant about how good these guys actually are. There is no doubt they were top of the line BW players but its just completely stupid to say oh ye they come in and win all leagues and be years ahead of everyone else. i mean cmon. They don't even dominate the ladder. I just fail to see why you guys are so up thinking there going to be the best player ever because bw players are just naturally better. I mean cmon? TLO wasn't even really a BW player. there are tons of new talent thats going to be > then old talent. It feels like preaching atheism to a group of christians. Fruitseller and idra are both already considered the very best of players, yet both of them failed at broodwar due to subpar mechanics.
I don't claim to know a lot, but I think there's a lot more to idra's mediocrity as a bw player than just weak mechanics. He got out-thought as well.
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On September 18 2010 09:00 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2? I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did.
NaDa would've made a lot more money just sticking with Brood War...$85K isn't even half of his old salary. Y'know, guaranteed pay.
He switched because he wants to be on top again, because he's washed up in terms of Brood War and can't really compete anymore. Same goes for July. Same goes for the B-teamers who went to SC2. Same goes for people like Tester. If the people jumping ship to SC2 could play Brood War at a high level they'd stick to Brood War, there's more money to be made in the form of a consistent salary (not even counting individual leagues) and the game is more popular and has more fans in South Korea.
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Holy crap, good for SC2. ^^
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On September 18 2010 10:26 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 08:38 eXigent. wrote:On September 18 2010 05:17 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 05:10 Wings wrote:On September 18 2010 04:58 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:56 vica wrote:On September 18 2010 04:48 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:46 Cade wrote:On September 18 2010 02:43 FindingPride wrote:On September 17 2010 23:05 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
[quote]
We can compare to idra, who made it onto the B team
who would lose to shitty A team players like MVP or Hyuk
who would get rocked by solid A team players like Kal or Sea
who would get stomped on by Jaedong or Flash there mechanics and macro dont transfer over. at all. As a wc3 player i was macroing better then most of the top bw players outside of korea on the ladder if anything they'll just catch up fast but we won't see any large gap in skill. There are new players arising. Hahahahahaha most unbelievably LOL worthy post I've seen on TL in the recent past. well I knew this kind of response would happen. Oh well people are just ignorant. sc is not sc2. the interface is much different. the macro mechanics are much different everything about the game is much different. There macro isn't some innate skill but rather a mental tick through lots and lots of training. Building times are much different so plz dont sit here and say they can hit barracks control group and do it much better then anyone else just because they played bw Because mechanics don't carry over. Macro is an innate skill. The skill to be able to understand and remember hundreds of timings. They have done so in Brood War, after learning every build order, and they can do the same in Starcraft 2. I can't believe you're even arguing this. really? i can guarantee they wont do as good as u think. I challenge anyone here to outmacro/outplay me. I'll prove to u BW mechanics mean nothing in sc2 pride.726 lets go : ) hahaha nobody said they were "macroing better than most of the top bw players outside of korea"... except YOU. If you want to prove your point, you should play THEM, instead of trying to act all cool and trying to save face and challenging the people laughing at you. Well I thought people outside of korea who had been playing bw for over 6+ years in the scene have good macro. I mean they have played it alot you would think that it would transfer over from bw rite? I just find it hard to believe you are so ignorant about how good these guys actually are. There is no doubt they were top of the line BW players but its just completely stupid to say oh ye they come in and win all leagues and be years ahead of everyone else. i mean cmon. They don't even dominate the ladder. I just fail to see why you guys are so up thinking there going to be the best player ever because bw players are just naturally better. I mean cmon? TLO wasn't even really a BW player. there are tons of new talent thats going to be > then old talent. It feels like preaching atheism to a group of christians. Fruitseller and idra are both already considered the very best of players, yet both of them failed at broodwar due to subpar mechanics. I don't claim to know a lot, but I think there's a lot more to idra's mediocrity as a bw player than just weak mechanics. He got out-thought as well.
IdrA was only mediocre in the context of contracted Korean progamers on established progaming teams. The fact that he could compete and practice with them evidenced overwhelming skill on the scale of BW's immense skill gradient. Leading up to SC2's release he won slews of international events in BW.
Regardless of transferability of skill, those who succeed at SC2 will be incredibly talented people, in some way or another. Former BW icons have already demonstrated legendary talent; time will tell whether such talent is what it takes to succeed in this new game.
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Season 2 will be with all-star old gamer?
I want JD in lol
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Come on, played 10 days and held TLO to a tough 3 game series, this guy is going to beast his awesome all over everyone's face.
The only man to win 3 OSL and 3 MSL
The great...
NADA
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On September 18 2010 11:46 EchOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 10:26 UniversalSnip wrote:On September 18 2010 08:38 eXigent. wrote:On September 18 2010 05:17 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 05:10 Wings wrote:On September 18 2010 04:58 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:56 vica wrote:On September 18 2010 04:48 FindingPride wrote:On September 18 2010 04:46 Cade wrote:On September 18 2010 02:43 FindingPride wrote:
[quote]
there mechanics and macro dont transfer over. at all.
As a wc3 player i was macroing better then most of the top bw players outside of korea on the ladder
if anything they'll just catch up fast but we won't see any large gap in skill. There are new players arising. Hahahahahaha most unbelievably LOL worthy post I've seen on TL in the recent past. well I knew this kind of response would happen. Oh well people are just ignorant. sc is not sc2. the interface is much different. the macro mechanics are much different everything about the game is much different. There macro isn't some innate skill but rather a mental tick through lots and lots of training. Building times are much different so plz dont sit here and say they can hit barracks control group and do it much better then anyone else just because they played bw Because mechanics don't carry over. Macro is an innate skill. The skill to be able to understand and remember hundreds of timings. They have done so in Brood War, after learning every build order, and they can do the same in Starcraft 2. I can't believe you're even arguing this. really? i can guarantee they wont do as good as u think. I challenge anyone here to outmacro/outplay me. I'll prove to u BW mechanics mean nothing in sc2 pride.726 lets go : ) hahaha nobody said they were "macroing better than most of the top bw players outside of korea"... except YOU. If you want to prove your point, you should play THEM, instead of trying to act all cool and trying to save face and challenging the people laughing at you. Well I thought people outside of korea who had been playing bw for over 6+ years in the scene have good macro. I mean they have played it alot you would think that it would transfer over from bw rite? I just find it hard to believe you are so ignorant about how good these guys actually are. There is no doubt they were top of the line BW players but its just completely stupid to say oh ye they come in and win all leagues and be years ahead of everyone else. i mean cmon. They don't even dominate the ladder. I just fail to see why you guys are so up thinking there going to be the best player ever because bw players are just naturally better. I mean cmon? TLO wasn't even really a BW player. there are tons of new talent thats going to be > then old talent. It feels like preaching atheism to a group of christians. Fruitseller and idra are both already considered the very best of players, yet both of them failed at broodwar due to subpar mechanics. I don't claim to know a lot, but I think there's a lot more to idra's mediocrity as a bw player than just weak mechanics. He got out-thought as well. IdrA was only mediocre in the context of contracted Korean progamers on established progaming teams. The fact that he could compete and practice with them evidenced overwhelming skill on the scale of BW's immense skill gradient. Leading up to SC2's release he won slews of international events in BW.
Yeah, I know isn't idra 'mediocre' at bw when you compare him to the global average, in the same way tossgirl isn't 'bad' by any standard except that of the male proleagues... doesn't really have anything to do with what we were discussing.
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On September 18 2010 11:27 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 09:00 eXigent. wrote:On September 18 2010 08:57 Terrakin wrote:
I wonder if TLO sparked NaDa's change to SC2? I think the $85,000US first place prize of GSL had a little more sway on him than TLO did. NaDa would've made a lot more money just sticking with Brood War...$85K isn't even half of his old salary. Y'know, guaranteed pay. He switched because he wants to be on top again, because he's washed up in terms of Brood War and can't really compete anymore. Same goes for July. Same goes for the B-teamers who went to SC2. Same goes for people like Tester. If the people jumping ship to SC2 could play Brood War at a high level they'd stick to Brood War, there's more money to be made in the form of a consistent salary (not even counting individual leagues) and the game is more popular and has more fans in South Korea.
OK, let's do some math. $170k per year vs $85k per tournament.
...
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this is good, now if only jaedong and flash transfer over 
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On September 18 2010 09:00 TheEpicLolz wrote:I think guys.. Really, NaDa to TLO is sort of like... Boxer to Flash? That may not be the best theory but.. yeah. NaDa's a bit old, whereas TLO is new and fresh. However, NaDa is still better at BW than TLO is at BW... and NaDa's played less of SC2... So in fact, I'm not even sure where I'm going with this. Well whatever, I think NaDa and July have great potential in SC2. XD
I'm sorry, but that analogy is WAYYYYY off. Boxer = NaDa and Flash = TLO??? O_o
I like TLO as much as the next guy but really... what has he achieved so far in SC2 to even think he's up to the caliber of player as NaDa. That's not to say that TLO doesn't have the potential to be great, but you must realize that NaDa has already proven himself as being able to get to the very top of an esport and stay on top for a very long time.
A much more accurate analogy would be TLO = TLO and NaDa = The motherf@#$ing Genius Terran: NaDa!!!!
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On September 18 2010 02:15 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
This is pretty exciting! All my favorite old-school players are joining SC2. Hoping for Boxer next, then Reach and Xellos!
found a interesting picture here.
http://lsm_rs57.blog.me/80115462797
tester(sSKS):Bro, did you enroll yohan(Boxer) on the list of friends?
HopeTorture:You...
HopeTorture: I am on the air.
HopeTorture:;;
tester:;
HopeTorture:Shit.
and another picture. please scroll down.
http://blog.naver.com/dyk02?Redirect=Log&logNo=50095889325
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EPT
