Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Maps - Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed. - Various ladder maps have been added.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds. - Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds. - Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode. - Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. - Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80. - Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas. - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8. - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas. - 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building. - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes - Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows. - Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair. - Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers. - Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates. - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen. - Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General - Improved the functionality of voice chat. - Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands. - Numerous performance and stability improvements.
Don't take this too serious, most likely bunch of confirmed changes with some fake ones. If you ever played wow you know 100s fake notes get released every patch and fake or real they both get deleted.
- Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds.
As a T, more than welcome. 40s i assume is to bring it in line with Spawn larva - that is you miss one, you can't that lost time up. Makes the macro mechanic much less forgiving and makes good t's standout. Subtle nerf but necessary.
Some seem likely: - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building.
others were in the official patch notes already, like: - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored.
others I have trouble with believing. could be partly true, party fake?
I approve of these patch notes. Hopefully they're real. Sounds like Z macro is going to be a little bit more intense, and the chronoboost/mule CD will bring it on par with spawn larvae, as opposed to noobs being able to spam saved up energy.
Overlord creep change by far my fav. Hydras will now be more viable!!!
Also love the build time nerf's for Terran . Their bullshit will be less abusive now.
overloord creep change! fantastic, just hope they are about the same pace as hydras so they dont run ahead/fall behind if you dont micro them. would check hydra on creep movement speed before posting but unable to atm, if someone could check up on hydra creep ms that would be appretiated
I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
Patch looks really awesome, i especially like the Carrier and 250 mm cannon upgrade. Now terran can do some funky Thor rush that is designed to take an expo blocked by rocks early and Carriers are more effective since you can get them out earlier.
Base overlord speed nearly doubling? Late game, high skill zerg is already so mobile it's /insane/ - between double or triple nydus, creep highways and now super speed overlords, I dunno. I admit Zerg have it hard at the start but the big epic games, at least Protoss are just boxed in and screwed :/
WOW. Well, I hope we're not being trolled. if it's true, welcome to hell Protoss and Terran players. Enjoy the cooldowns on your macro mechanics
But on a less BM note, I find "Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25" to be odd. That wouldn't actually do much without also reducing the time for a larva inject to pop. I guess it'd give you a free creep tumor after 5 larva injects but...that's a pretty negligible advantage.
Also, did Battlecruisers really need to be nerfed? Or zealot build time for that matter? OR ULTRALISKS ?!? (slightly biased on that last one)
EDIT: With a little more thought, that overlord buff seems rediculous and unlikely.
Someone wrote that they called the Support and they said that patch was supposed to come out this week, they were asking about offline mode and someone answered them "This will be fixed with next patch that will come out this week".
I still find the lack of banshee nerf sad, its still a great patch (if it´s legit) Hopefully the maps are large macro maps, i just dont bother playing fucking stepps all the time
I always read the start of the post and it's always some bs crap about "i got this from another forum", "blabla original post got deleted but 100% sure they're legit", which already makes the list very suspicious...
So then we read the changes and it's always 3 things: 1 - Changes that have been announced already 2 - Some changes that seems pretty reasonable 3 - Complete bs changes that would never be implemented
What's up with the creep stuff and overlord speed?
If anything, try these:
- Marauder base armor changed from 1 to 0. - Marauder stim pack activation cost changed from 20 hp to 25 hp. - Hydralisk range upgrade removed, default range changed from 5 to 6 - Hydralisk movement speed upgrade added, 150 mins/gas
Also overlord speed boost/moving creep gen would be a HUGE deal. So many cool tactics could come from it. Make hydras more viable off the top of my head.
Toss taking a beating...cmon is there anything good for protoss in those notes? everything is slowed down, and how many games do you get carriers? cmon...
So.. they're buffing PF? What? Increased OV speed will help Zerg a lot with scouting, etc. Dunno if moving excrete creep would really work since the creep will disappear really fast, but I guess we could see really cute moving creep play, so I look forward to that.
On September 16 2010 18:28 Faraday wrote: Toss taking a beating...cmon is there anything good for protoss in those notes? everything is slowed down, and how many games do you get carriers? cmon...
I would love for these to be legit, as a protoss player. PvZ is going to get a shitload harder, but whatever - I like a challenge! PvT is going to be so easy for a week or two while tons of crap Terrans are still ranked highly - then they'll drop.
If this is real then players with better multitask are going to be rewarded - as it should be in the first place. This would definitely be a patch which raises the skill ceiling of the game.
- Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving.
On September 16 2010 18:20 Floophead_III wrote: I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
On September 16 2010 18:28 Faraday wrote: Toss taking a beating...cmon is there anything good for protoss in those notes? everything is slowed down, and how many games do you get carriers? cmon...
I would love for these to be legit, as a protoss player. PvZ is going to get a shitload harder, but whatever - I like a challenge! PvT is going to be so easy for a week or two while tons of crap Terrans are still ranked highly - then they'll drop.
If this is real then players with better multitask are going to be rewarded - as it should be in the first place. This would definitely be a patch which raises the skill ceiling of the game.
Agreed. The macro mechanics are going to be a lot more evened up all around, and it'd be nice to see DTs and Carriers get more play.
I cannot believe it is real, because i was argueing with my friends that blizzard can never make zerg balanced, because even though the race is okish later on, they would have to increase overlord speed by a ton to make scouting possible so zerg doesnt die to random BS all the time. Must be fake ! If its not, ill be such a happy camper...
I just had a thought, what speed does 3 or 4 Nexii generate energy? Same with command centers? Surely once you reach a certain amount of expansions you basically can't use the energy fast enough with a cooldown?
Maybe it means the carrier will spawn with the full load now? That would explain the increase in cost. Honestly it's kind of silly that you have to build those when they come out. It's not like anyone would want to save the minerals that late in a game.
On September 16 2010 18:28 Faraday wrote: Toss taking a beating...cmon is there anything good for protoss in those notes? everything is slowed down, and how many games do you get carriers? cmon...
I would love for these to be legit, as a protoss player. PvZ is going to get a shitload harder, but whatever - I like a challenge! PvT is going to be so easy for a week or two while tons of crap Terrans are still ranked highly - then they'll drop.
If this is real then players with better multitask are going to be rewarded - as it should be in the first place. This would definitely be a patch which raises the skill ceiling of the game.
Oh man. If these are real I'm going to be so happy. It's like they put in every reasonable suggestion we've been talking about over the last weeks. Those overlord changes, holy carp. Not so sure if I believe it, though.
If they are fake, then someone has been really creative, such as Overlord creeping and psionics seeing up hills. Overall this would make an amazing patch, I love the idea of Zerg bringing creep with them into battles. It sounds a bit too good to be true, but it would be fun to see how it works.
oh WOW, the other 2 race macro mechanics would actually take a bit skill now (though mule-scanner-supply drop can still be done with no CD). I really hope this is real, though the thor buff doesnt make really sense
Though it makes sense overall, so i dont see it being implemented
On September 16 2010 18:20 Floophead_III wrote: I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
You mean as hard as Zerg's atm?
Nope. Zerg's is still going to be much harder since they have to worry about creep spread, larva management, when to build drones, when to add extra hatches vs queens, and they can't use their macro abilities with pure hotkeys easily.
Zerg is just harder, but they benefit from having only 1 production building so it's pretty easy to hit 5 s and hold R for 2 seconds. =P
Honestly, until you hit top level, zerg is really really really hard. It doesn't necessarily speak to balance, but there's so much to do as zerg as opposed to T and P (especially P). Zerg is the new Terran - impossible to play at low apm.
If i am reading this correctly, there is cooldown on chrono now? Doesn't this break the game?
How can you ever save up chrono for specific timings. Like getting a fast col and the upgrade at the same time. Or trying to get a fast +1 and chrono warpgates.
this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
The psyonic units being able to see uphill actually seems like a good idea, especially for protoss where they don't need a robo/stargate unit to see uphill..
I think they meant that the carrier spawns with 8 interceptors as opposed to 4 (since they already do), as that would make sense with the mineral increase.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
I'm hoping this is worded badly but means that you can cast spell up cliffs and whatnot as if you had vision(like storm on high ground without sight) because a ht seeing up a actual cliff like a colossus would be sooo damn weird
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
This must happen. The macro mechanic changes especially are very interesting. The larvae buff will really help zerg, and the cooldowns for MULEs and Chrono Boost will really punish players for not using them effectively throughout the patch. I feel this will greatly increase the playability and emphasize the skill gap between players, a must in any competitive game.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC?
Disregarding balance, I don't like that they reduced the larvae inject energy to 20 because it makes larvae inject vs. creep tumor less of a decision. Other than that, looks pretty reasonable?
[B] - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
What a smart change,. All of us idiots on TL ^_^ could think of was making the queen spawn with 50 energy. Lowering spawn larvae energy allows for that creep tumour to go down a whole 6 seconds earlier, or for that spawn larvae to be used a whole 6 second earlier if you choose to tumour first.
On September 16 2010 18:34 abrasion wrote: I just had a thought, what speed does 3 or 4 Nexii generate energy? Same with command centers? Surely once you reach a certain amount of expansions you basically can't use the energy fast enough with a cooldown?
yes you can. you just have to always boost asap when one of the nexi has 20 energy. if all 3 or 4 have the energy you can boost 4 things in a row, because the cooldown obviously is different for each nexus.
- Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
If its what I think it is (if a psionic units stands near a cliff they will have vision over it as long as their vision range) this is a brilliant change. It allows the casters to cast up cliffs which I always felt was annoying that you couldn't do, and it helps zerg ALOT vs cliffs because the queen will now give vision to spinecrawlers and hydras/roaches.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC?
the threat of cloaked units
And in what way does a cooldown on calldown mule impact this?
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC?
the threat of cloaked units
First off, 40 secs is about the time it takes for you to get like 22-23 energy so you could easily spend all your extra energy if you paid some attention. Second, you can still scan with the saved up energy right?
Overall the changes seem amazing, so it's probably fake
On September 16 2010 18:46 Zyrre wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
If its what I think it is (if a psionic units stands near a cliff they will have vision over it as long as their vision range) this is a brilliant change. It allows the casters to cast up cliffs which I always felt was annoying that you couldn't do, and it helps zerg ALOT vs cliffs because the queen will now give vision to spinecrawlers and hydras/roaches.
Also would mean that TvT style will change from having vikings to maybe some ghosts instead?
If these are legit, the overlord changes are going to be huge. Drop play could be far more effective if overlords could even pull it off without speed upgraded. Then there is of course the amazing implications of what essentially mounts to a new creep spreading method with the concept of being able to excrete it while moving.
Don't like the carrier change, that is just so expensive for an initial investment on a unit that sees so little use as it is. I don't really get it. Before you could start it earlier, then do the interceptors while it was moving to a target and still have 4 if you wanted. Seems weird. Interesting notes at least, most likely of all the preemptive sets I've seen posted thus far.
On September 16 2010 18:44 NeoLearner wrote: I admit, if those changes are real I would be very amazed and giddy like a schoolgirl. That would be a lot of "HARD" changes I would never expected.
If these aren't real, I am amazed by whoever thought these up. They look quite great to me!
How is it amazing to think up? All you need as a prerequisite is to be a Zerg player
I gotta lol at all the people whinging that MULE macro makes it easier for low players to compete with high players. Same argument during alpha and beta about control group buildings etc. I don't see anybody asking for the removal of that now, but when it was announced, it was like the sky was falling in.
I always thought MULE vs. Scan was balanced ok, i've definitely lost games from being greedy and going for another MULE when i should have scanned.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC?
the threat of cloaked units
Okay you have a point there, but you can still do that.
The only difference is that the saved up energy will have to be used on a scan or calldown supply. So now you really 'lose' a mule, and if the units never come, you have 50 extra energy to scan in the future.
But yes, if this is true overall it's a "nerf" to CC&Nexus if you don't use them properly, and you get really punished if you don't use it properly together with losing "some" functionality in some way
On September 16 2010 18:46 Zyrre wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
If its what I think it is (if a psionic units stands near a cliff they will have vision over it as long as their vision range) this is a brilliant change. It allows the casters to cast up cliffs which I always felt was annoying that you couldn't do, and it helps zerg ALOT vs cliffs because the queen will now give vision to spinecrawlers and hydras/roaches.
Also would mean that TvT style will change from having vikings to maybe some ghosts instead?
doubt it seige tanks would just kill them .
But i am pretty sure their fake now with sense carriers already spawn with 4 interceptors. Yet its in the patch notes that its being added? Hmmm. I wish these were real but i know its not
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
I disagree with 100% of everything you have said, respectfully. I dt' rushed in a pvt, and the t did a slow push from about the middle of the map to my main, with the use of turrets and scans. Very interesting. Maybe you should play some BW and see how damn important it is to have saved detection(i'll admit though they really aren't comparable since one is a free resource, the other cuts into mineral count)
Not being able to chrono 2 things at once I think would break the game. There are litterally 100's of timing pushes where you have to chrono 2 things at once. Another 100,s when you are getting cheesed and have to have an emergency unit out. Stopping fast pools from zergs? Stopping Reaper rushes? Stopping fast marader pushes? How are you supposed to predict that a rush is coming? Are you just supposed to not spend any on your nexus? Are you supposed to spend on your nexus and just pray to god a rush doesnt come within the time proximity of your chrono?
On September 16 2010 18:46 Zyrre wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
If its what I think it is (if a psionic units stands near a cliff they will have vision over it as long as their vision range) this is a brilliant change. It allows the casters to cast up cliffs which I always felt was annoying that you couldn't do, and it helps zerg ALOT vs cliffs because the queen will now give vision to spinecrawlers and hydras/roaches.
i actually think that "vision in the airplane" (horribly worded btw, that's what makes me think that a fake is pretty likely here) means that you can see what units a dropship/overlord/warp prism contains. which seems reasonable.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
I have a real hard time believing this, how is Zerg ever to dump their queen energy if it only costs 20, it will regen more with the time it takes to spawn larvae... And overlord scouting is pretty damn good already, it just seems unlikely..
On September 16 2010 18:46 abrasion wrote: Do you guys remember the last couple of beta changes? They didn't change much - why would they make such huge changes now. Fake
Most of those were announced officially. Although it seems like a lot, the game has been out for almost two months now. The data from retail release is far greater than the beta. It makes sense to make fewer patches that contain more changes in retail. During eta they would patch constantly because really who could complain? It was a free beta. Try can't get away with weekly patches now, especially with all of these tournaments running with so much money on the line.
If these are real, I'm really disappointed that there is no mention of a fix for the longstanding achievement meta bug. This is pretty annoying for those of us who actually did go through the trouble of wasting time on achievement points early on :/
On September 16 2010 18:48 Fantistic wrote: - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed.
Ultralisks now even worse versus mass Thors.
That quote about the ultralisk however is from Blizzard themselves - they specifically mentioned some changes and that was included I thought. So that one is real or very close to it.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen.
What, the cursor has never been visible for me during the loading screen and I don't play Random.
This is another thing that makes me think these aren't real. Unless it has been translated (and translated badly), this doesn't really make sense. The cursor has never shown while loading (at least certainly not for me).
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
I have a real hard time believing this, how is Zerg ever to dump their queen energy if it only costs 20, it will regen more with the time it takes to spawn larvae... And overlord scouting is pretty damn good already, it just seems unlikely..
On September 16 2010 18:35 Geo.Rion wrote: oh WOW, the other 2 race macro mechanics would actually take a bit skill now (though mule-scanner-supply drop can still be done with no CD). I really hope this is real, though the thor buff doesnt make really sense
it does.
you can get rid of the energy easier now so thors don't get raped by feedback anymore
On September 16 2010 18:51 hijt wrote: as a zerg player:
the mule change is good but how can a protoss player spend his energy when he is at 100 for example when cb has a cd of 20?
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC?
the threat of cloaked units
Okay you have a point there, but you can still do that.
The only difference is that the saved up energy will have to be used on a scan or calldown supply. So now you really 'lose' a mule, and if the units never come, you have 50 extra energy to scan in the future.
But yes, if this is true overall it's a "nerf" to CC&Nexus if you don't use them properly, and you get really punished if you don't use it properly together with losing "some" functionality in some way
The cooldown is such that you recover about half of the mule's energy cost during the cooldown so you can still catch up .
I gotta lol at all the people whinging that MULE macro makes it easier for low players to compete with high players. Same argument during alpha and beta about control group buildings etc. I don't see anybody asking for the removal of that now,
No, you don't see any terran players asking for the removal of that now.
Many legit changes that already be confirmed by Blizzard. If the mule and chrono boost changes are real, I'll be damned. That's really bring the bar of playing Terran and Protoss up, marco would be much more intense now.
I don't really see the problem with Chronoboost. Mule cooldown is obviously a hugely needed change because of the "spam 5 mules in a row on a gold expo and get 1949219429 minerals in 10 sec" but what would a coolodown on chronoboost exactly achieve ? Seems to me it would make the ability much less interesting since it would drastically reduces the number of ways to use it. Chronoboost isn't a pure macro mechanic like Mules/Spawn larvae that you want do everytime you can. And another thing that bother me is that terrans and zerg can use their energy for something else (scan / supply / creep tumor / transfu) if they somehow suck with the mule/larva cooldown while a protoss cannot. So yeah, chronoboost cooldown why not but nexus needs 1 or 2 abilities to be on par with T/Z if that's the case..
I gotta lol at all the people whinging that MULE macro makes it easier for low players to compete with high players. Same argument during alpha and beta about control group buildings etc. I don't see anybody asking for the removal of that now,
No, you don't see any terran players asking for the removal of that now.
If there was no warp in mechanic would you still dislike building groups ?
I don't think adding a cooldown for mules and chronoboost ist he appropriate answer. The reason 2 gate zealot was so strong was you saved chrono boost specifically for it. Now they are increasing zealot building time, and nerfing Chronoboost.
Chrono boost was pretty damn near essential in any protoss match up simply because of the time it takes to make units (Warpgates excluded obviously).
A carrier is 120 second build time, which is 30 seconds more then a battle cruiser, and I think many people would argue that a battle cruiser is a stronger unit.
Protoss build time was turned reasonable by Chronoboost and Warpgates (Maybe too reasonable, I'm down for increasing the cooldown of warpgates) Things just build really friggen fast for Zerg and Terran.
I like a lot of the zerg changes, the ovie speed may be too much because 2.0 or whatever speed is about as fast as a Zealot with speed, which is pretty damn fast.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen.
What, the cursor has never been visible for me during the loading screen and I don't play Random.
This is another thing that makes me think these aren't real. Unless it has been translated (and translated badly), this doesn't really make sense. The cursor has never shown while loading (at least certainly not for me).
It does for me, at the very end of the load.
I know because I move it around to make sure it's over my hatch every game =o
Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
wait... are you saying its legit because they deleted it? pretty sure they'd delete fake bullshit equally as fast very skilled troll is skilled to write this patch but not skilled enough as i question a lot of these bugs
- Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units
i question the existence of this bug as well. sounds reasonable though if youve ever sent a changeling into instant death because of an unseen tank or an unseen high ground unit killing it before it morphs
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
not only do i question the existence of this bug, but i also question the spelling ability of the troll who wrote this. and i dont think they would use the word "walking" when referring to larva
On September 16 2010 18:53 Dawme wrote: I don't really see the problem with Chronoboost. Mule cooldown is obviously a hugely needed change because of the "spam 5 mules in a row on a gold expo and get 1949219429 minerals in 10 sec" but what would a coolodown on chronoboost exactly achieve ? Seems to me it would make the ability much less interesting since it would drastically reduces the number of ways to use it. Chronoboost isn't a pure macro mechanic like Mules/Spawn larvae that you want do everytime you can. And another thing that bother me is that terrans and zerg can use their energy for something else (scan / supply / creep tumor / transfu) if they somehow suck with the mule/larva cooldown while a protoss cannot. So yeah, chronoboost cooldown why not but nexus needs 1 or 2 abilities to be on par with T/Z if that's the case..
During the 20 seconds you regain about 10 energy so you can still spend it all, just gradually... so many people don't get this x_X
I like those changes even as a protoss player, nice that a terran cant just catch up by smacking down mules left right and center on a expo!!! How many times have we seen a terran player losing and they get back into the game simply because dropping loads of mules down. Imm still not sure how as a protoss we are meant to stop a terran push with the delayed zealots vs maruder/marine stim though....
If the majority is true then I can't imagine how they come up with some stuff. Wth with the costs ... Dark Shrine for 100/200... It's already too much with 250 and 200 is still too much since it doesn't justify it's costs and tech. Chronoboost CD?!?!? Even if it sounds legit it can't possible be true. CB only has 1 purpose and that is making production / upgrades faster by 20 sec. Forgetting 1 CB would mean if u had 50 energy you would never get below ~25 sec again since u can only CB every 20 sec and you gain about 25 energy every 20 sec. For the Terran Mule CD it is the same but they can spent it on scan and depots. So this one could be legit.
Zerg changes are huge in terms of creep and scouting. Basically they can now scout fast with their overlords and keep mining with their drones. No drone scout anymore unless it's to scout cheeses.
On September 16 2010 18:25 IdrA wrote: those changes make far too much sense to be legit
This is what i thought, cant remember the last time blizzard released patch notes that I liked as much as these. Got nothing against anything here and the overlord speed/creep stuff makes so much sence. Also the cooldown on mule/chrono is fantastic and punishes bad players and doesnt affect the good players.
Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Blizzard deleted these fake notes but then read that line and go like "wait..is that acctualy possible???" :D I remember a few years ago when they asked a Blizzard guy about the hatchery bug in BW and he was like "There is a hatchery bug?" (think it was that bug)
bloody hell didnt see the chronoboost change what the hell, now we really are screwed vs terran push as we cant just try get units out fast to try and counter it...or vs zerg, i know zealot push vs zerg was hard but nerfing, zealots, warpgates, and also chronoboost is quite a lot, its like Protoss arent meant to stop any rush unless they go 4 gates...
On September 16 2010 18:56 shannn wrote:Forgetting 1 CB would mean if u had 50 energy you would never get below ~25 sec again since u can only CB every 20 sec and you gain about 25 energy every 20 sec.
You never tested it or just aren't good enough to notice when the boost ends
On September 16 2010 18:53 Dawme wrote: I don't really see the problem with Chronoboost. Mule cooldown is obviously a hugely needed change because of the "spam 5 mules in a row on a gold expo and get 1949219429 minerals in 10 sec" but what would a coolodown on chronoboost exactly achieve ? Seems to me it would make the ability much less interesting since it would drastically reduces the number of ways to use it. Chronoboost isn't a pure macro mechanic like Mules/Spawn larvae that you want do everytime you can. And another thing that bother me is that terrans and zerg can use their energy for something else (scan / supply / creep tumor / transfu) if they somehow suck with the mule/larva cooldown while a protoss cannot. So yeah, chronoboost cooldown why not but nexus needs 1 or 2 abilities to be on par with T/Z if that's the case..
During the 20 seconds you regain about 10 energy so you can still spend it all, just gradually... so many people don't get this x_X
I understand this but my point is, contrary to MULEs and spawn larvae, you don't need chronoboost 100% of the time. That's why the ability was interesting, it's not a simple macro mechanic that you juste have to remember to do every x sec because you always want to do it, there are plenty of times where you don't want/need to chronoboost anything. A cooldown basically removes you the whole game of "i'm keeping my nexus energy for chronoboosting this specific stuff" and makes the ability very dull. And like I said, protoss can't spend their energy on anything else. Sooo the ability beccomes very boring and I don't see what exactly is the purpose of this change. The only problem I can imagine with non-cooldowned chrono is the current zealot spam early game but this is basically nerfed into oblivion with the new zealot build time.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
I disagree with 100% of everything you have said, respectfully. I dt' rushed in a pvt, and the t did a slow push from about the middle of the map to my main, with the use of turrets and scans. Very interesting. Maybe you should play some BW and see how damn important it is to have saved detection(i'll admit though they really aren't comparable since one is a free resource, the other cuts into mineral count)
Not being able to chrono 2 things at once I think would break the game. There are litterally 100's of timing pushes where you have to chrono 2 things at once. Another 100,s when you are getting cheesed and have to have an emergency unit out. Stopping fast pools from zergs? Stopping Reaper rushes? Stopping fast marader pushes? How are you supposed to predict that a rush is coming? Are you just supposed to not spend any on your nexus? Are you supposed to spend on your nexus and just pray to god a rush doesnt come within the time proximity of your chrono?
Please think before posting....
I don't see the problem at all.
You can still save up energy for scans, the only difference is that you just can't use up the energy like you do now if you decide to save it.
Let's say I am T and I see a dark shrine, I make a raven, but ofcourse that can get sniped so I want to keep atleast 1 scan when I move out.
Let's now say the T didn't need that scan, well he now has to calldown supply, wich is ofcourse worse then a mule.
Yes it is a "nerf" but I mean it's not like you can't save up energy anymore, you still have the same max energy.
I mean if I get banshee/voidray rushed, what do I do? I save up energy on both my queens for just 1 transfuse, that are spawn larva injects that I will never get back, but I can still spread some extra creep tumors, but it's still 'worse' then I had spawnd larva.
On the P part.
How does a zerg predict that a rush is coming? Never make drones untill they feel completely safe? You now will have to think ahead with chronoboost, for example. You need better scouting/gamesense to properly use it.
Okay the zerg may be baneling bust, I don't know for sure yet, Do I take the risk of chronoboosting probes? Or do I chronoboost the sentry?
And YES it's a worse situation, but I don't see how it breakes the game, you will just get punished hard for making the wrong decision.
On September 16 2010 18:59 Tommylew wrote: bloody hell didnt see the chronoboost change what the hell, now we really are screwed vs terran push as we cant just try get units out fast to try and counter it...or vs zerg, i know zealot push vs zerg was hard but nerfing, zealots, warpgates, and also chronoboost is quite a lot, its like Protoss arent meant to stop any rush unless they go 4 gates...
On September 16 2010 18:59 Tommylew wrote: bloody hell didnt see the chronoboost change what the hell, now we really are screwed vs terran push as we cant just try get units out fast to try and counter it...or vs zerg, i know zealot push vs zerg was hard but nerfing, zealots, warpgates, and also chronoboost is quite a lot, its like Protoss arent meant to stop any rush unless they go 4 gates...
You'll just have to scout and prepare for rushes like the rest of us I guess. Sorry.
On September 16 2010 19:02 Heosat wrote: The OL changes are too weird for me. Creep doesn't spread fast from an OL anyway so a moving OL with creep spread would basically do nothing.
Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
wait... are you saying its legit because they deleted it? pretty sure they'd delete fake bullshit equally as fast very skilled troll is skilled to write this patch but not skilled enough as i question a lot of these bugs
- Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units
i question the existence of this bug as well. sounds reasonable though if youve ever sent a changeling into instant death because of an unseen tank or an unseen high ground unit killing it before it morphs
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
not only do i question the existence of this bug, but i also question the spelling ability of the troll who wrote this. and i dont think they would use the word "walking" when referring to larva
the cliff larva bug was real as recently as the end of beta when there was a custom map where the spawn was right next to a cliff and they discovered that the larva would die in certain situations.
This is to good to be true. Although I'm missing some things - especially the status of Marauders razing buildings in a jiffy and the PF attack priority.
I'm pretty disAppointed that they didn't fix the attack priority of repairing scvs. That's actually the biggest reason that I think these are fake, lol
Seems extremely interesting!! And mostly good. I am a bit worried about the Z changes tho. Not saying they didn't need to be stronger vs. terran, but that overlord speed might make them have sooo much map control and scouting info that things get a bit out of hand... hard to say.
The only "patch note" that I'm little confused with is
- Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen.
I'm Random... I never see cursor during the loading screen. Just sometimes when a bug appears causing it to be visible (also let me see which race I spawn is), assuming this is a "bug".
On September 16 2010 19:02 Heosat wrote: The OL changes are too weird for me. Creep doesn't spread fast from an OL anyway so a moving OL with creep spread would basically do nothing.
Not if you have 20 OL and you always keep them on top of your hidra army
Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Blizzard deleted these fake notes but then read that line and go like "wait..is that acctualy possible???" :D I remember a few years ago when they asked a Blizzard guy about the hatchery bug in BW and he was like "There is a hatchery bug?" (think it was that bug)
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Blizzard deleted these fake notes but then read a few of the responses and went like: "Wait... is THIS what the community wants"
I hope they read stuff like this. If the response of the community is unanimously (well, close) positive, the least you can do is test some of the stuff out.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
This is a bit confusing. Carriers already come with 4 prebuilt interceptors. Carriers are also definitely not strong enough to warrant a cost increase.
What I believe this change to be is that carriers cost 50 more minerals but come with an EXTRA 4 interceptors so with a total of 8 prebuilt interceptors right out of the Stargate. Could this be the intended change? Maybe it was lost in the translation...
On September 16 2010 19:03 fallore wrote: I'm pretty disAppointed that they didn't fix the attack priority of repairing scvs. That's actually the biggest reason that I think these are fake, lol
Yea man this needs to be fixed :/
Xinxy: I'm pretty sure that's what is meant, but yea you wouldn't think so from the notes!
On September 16 2010 19:03 fallore wrote: I'm pretty disAppointed that they didn't fix the attack priority of repairing scvs. That's actually the biggest reason that I think these are fake, lol
Ah yes - this one too. I actually finished the campaign on brutal and noticed that the AI focused your repairing SCV:s in the Thor mission. Made them so much less effective in the heat of battle. This should definitely be added.
On September 16 2010 19:02 Heosat wrote: The OL changes are too weird for me. Creep doesn't spread fast from an OL anyway so a moving OL with creep spread would basically do nothing.
But 3 OLs in a ball doing it would.
I'd imagine that this is blizzard's way of making hydras more viable as a pushing unit, I can definitely see this being viable (and I think it's pretty awesome). A wave of advancing overlords leading a pack of hydras ravenous for slightly nerfed terran/toss blood will make for some increased variety in high level matches.
On September 16 2010 18:30 Plexa wrote:If this is real then players with better multitask are going to be rewarded - as it should be in the first place. This would definitely be a patch which raises the skill ceiling of the game.
Pretty much this, im already loving these patch notes, not just for zerg but terran and protoss too, harder macro mechanics, good good.
On September 16 2010 19:02 Heosat wrote: The OL changes are too weird for me. Creep doesn't spread fast from an OL anyway so a moving OL with creep spread would basically do nothing.
If you would let multiple overlords patrol the same Area, the Creep would spread very fast. This would buff Hydras a lot.
Or something diffrent: You let an overlord move in the direction of the enemy base and extra-Queens follow and put down tumors. This atm, while theoretically possible, needs tons of attention, with moving Creepspread all you have to do is controll your Queens following 1 Overlord.
On September 16 2010 18:56 shannn wrote:Forgetting 1 CB would mean if u had 50 energy you would never get below ~25 sec again since u can only CB every 20 sec and you gain about 25 energy every 20 sec.
You never tested it or just aren't good enough to notice when the boost ends
Clearly you missed my point in that post maybe read the full context alright? To explain my point was what are you going to do if there's a CB cd as Protoss. You can't do anything else with it. As Terran a Mule CD you will be forced to use the other options. As a Protoss you don't have another option. Unless I'm thinking something entirely different of the CB cd enlighten me then.
Edit: the post after you that quoted you is telling my point also clearly. This way Protoss can not save nexus energy for a fast timing push to CB warpgate tech or 2 fast immortals or upgrades AT ALL.
Edit2: Read your post about the energy and I understand what you meannow and I wasn't stating a fact about the 25 energy per 20 sec I was just making that up (hence the ~ since I don't know the exact number) but it was said to make up for my point in the post after that.
- Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair.
This would make Spawn Larva the only spell in the game which has an energy cost that isn't a multiple of 25 and Nuclear Strike can be hidden behind more than just the Lair.
These notes are just a Zerg player dreaming of balance...
On September 16 2010 19:02 Heosat wrote: The OL changes are too weird for me. Creep doesn't spread fast from an OL anyway so a moving OL with creep spread would basically do nothing.
But 3 OLs in a ball doing it would.
yea, but as soon as they move away the creep will just go away agn. You just leave a slightly receeding trail.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
If this is indeed true, then we can now bring speed upgraded overlords with our hydras!!! They're no longer slow as shit when making a counter-attack somwhere with no pre-spread creep!!!! fk i'm excited.
I have a theory that blizzard releases 'fake' patch notes and then judges what to keep based on community/pros reaction are. SO let's all voice our acceptance of this patch.. REALLY LOUDLY =]
IT"S A GOOD PATCH BLIZZARD!! DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!
On September 16 2010 19:09 Jermstuddog wrote: Two reasons why these notes are super fake.
- Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair.
This would make Spawn Larva the only spell in the game which has an energy cost that isn't a multiple of 25 and Nuclear Strike can be hidden behind more than just the Lair.
These notes are just a Zerg player dreaming of balance...
This, not to mention Carriers already come with 4 Interceptors.
These are almost certainly the real notes Blizzard have already announced (tank and ultra changes etc) with a bunch of fake changes. No dis to the OP of course, who is just reporting what he saw on the Blizzard forums.
Giveaways include letting psionic units see up cliffs, which makes no bloody sense, and nobody was asking for. And putting cooldowns on the central mechanics of two of the three races is WAY to big a change. If that was going to change it would have been done back in beta. Its not like spawning creep tumours has a cooldown. Neither does spawn larvae if you think about it, so a queen can cast it on two hatcheries at once if she has the energy.
I'm really diggin' some of the changes, particularly the macro mechanics one. If this patch is real, it's definitely going to be rewarding better players in general.
I hope the OL speed increase doesn't make it too fast, though admittedly it is rather hard to scout with Zerg sometimes so I suppose it's warranted.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
On September 16 2010 19:12 SeaSmoke wrote: There are reasons to think these are fake...but spawn larva cost not being a multiple of 25 is a little silly...
It's a very good reason. In BW and SC2 all things cost multiply 25 minerals / gas / energy.
On September 16 2010 19:09 Jermstuddog wrote: Two reasons why these notes are super fake.
- Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair.
This would make Spawn Larva the only spell in the game which has an energy cost that isn't a multiple of 25 and Nuclear Strike can be hidden behind more than just the Lair.
These notes are just a Zerg player dreaming of balance...
Nah, the Queen actually needs a slightly cheaper Spawn Larva. You always have to wait a second or two when you do your 3-4 first injects because the larva pop while the queen is on 23 MP. This isn't game breaking but it is very annoying. I would have solved that by increasing the queen MP regen slightly so it has 25 after 40 seconds.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active.
Is this ability not called, "Generate Creep?" It seems unlikely Blizzard would get it wrong.
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
LOLOLOLOLOL
If I were a larva, I'd probably want to just off a cliff too.
actually larva does die sometimes when you build hatchery close to cliff edge.. i noticed it while cheesing other zergs by building hatchery in their main, then queens+crawlers etc..
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
LOLOLOLOLOL
If I were a larva, I'd probably want to just off a cliff too.
actually larva does die sometimes when you build hatchery close to cliff edge.. i noticed it while cheesing other zergs by building hatchery in their main, then queens+crawlers etc..
but why would they misspell the word accidentally while using the word "walking" instead of "moving" when referring to larva? sloppy troll is sloppy
On September 16 2010 18:53 Dawme wrote: I don't really see the problem with Chronoboost. Mule cooldown is obviously a hugely needed change because of the "spam 5 mules in a row on a gold expo and get 1949219429 minerals in 10 sec" but what would a coolodown on chronoboost exactly achieve ? Seems to me it would make the ability much less interesting since it would drastically reduces the number of ways to use it. Chronoboost isn't a pure macro mechanic like Mules/Spawn larvae that you want do everytime you can. And another thing that bother me is that terrans and zerg can use their energy for something else (scan / supply / creep tumor / transfu) if they somehow suck with the mule/larva cooldown while a protoss cannot. So yeah, chronoboost cooldown why not but nexus needs 1 or 2 abilities to be on par with T/Z if that's the case..
During the 20 seconds you regain about 10 energy so you can still spend it all, just gradually... so many people don't get this x_X
chronoboost can be used for tech and any unit, its like 2 abilities in one or better
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
LOLOLOLOLOL
If I were a larva, I'd probably want to just off a cliff too.
actually larva does die sometimes when you build hatchery close to cliff edge.. i noticed it while cheesing other zergs by building hatchery in their main, then queens+crawlers etc..
but why would they misspell the word accidentally while using the word "walking" instead of "moving" when referring to larva? sloppy troll is sloppy
Like another poster said. Its probably first posted in Russian - translated to English with Google translate.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active.
Is this ability not called, "Generate Creep?" It seems unlikely Blizzard would get it wrong.
Someone did say it was translated to russian and back, which would also explain the carrier miswording, of course, this is probably what a fake would want us to think. (conspiracy!)
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
Think of it as Balanar with Aghanims Scepter if you played Dota. It means unhindered vision. No cliffs blocking vision.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
I disagree with 100% of everything you have said, respectfully. I dt' rushed in a pvt, and the t did a slow push from about the middle of the map to my main, with the use of turrets and scans. Very interesting. Maybe you should play some BW and see how damn important it is to have saved detection(i'll admit though they really aren't comparable since one is a free resource, the other cuts into mineral count)
Not being able to chrono 2 things at once I think would break the game. There are litterally 100's of timing pushes where you have to chrono 2 things at once. Another 100,s when you are getting cheesed and have to have an emergency unit out. Stopping fast pools from zergs? Stopping Reaper rushes? Stopping fast marader pushes? How are you supposed to predict that a rush is coming? Are you just supposed to not spend any on your nexus? Are you supposed to spend on your nexus and just pray to god a rush doesnt come within the time proximity of your chrono?
Please think before posting....
I don't see the problem at all.
You can still save up energy for scans, the only difference is that you just can't use up the energy like you do now if you decide to save it.
Let's say I am T and I see a dark shrine, I make a raven, but ofcourse that can get sniped so I want to keep atleast 1 scan when I move out.
Let's now say the T didn't need that scan, well he now has to calldown supply, wich is ofcourse worse then a mule.
Yes it is a "nerf" but I mean it's not like you can't save up energy anymore, you still have the same max energy.
I mean if I get banshee/voidray rushed, what do I do? I save up energy on both my queens for just 1 transfuse, that are spawn larva injects that I will never get back, but I can still spread some extra creep tumors, but it's still 'worse' then I had spawnd larva.
On the P part.
How does a zerg predict that a rush is coming? Never make drones untill they feel completely safe? You now will have to think ahead with chronoboost, for example. You need better scouting/gamesense to properly use it.
Okay the zerg may be baneling bust, I don't know for sure yet, Do I take the risk of chronoboosting probes? Or do I chronoboost the sentry?
And YES it's a worse situation, but I don't see how it breakes the game, you will just get punished hard for making the wrong decision.
Do you only play zerg? because thats what it sounds like Since i play high level random (like top 50 NA) I get to complain and have viewpoints from 9 angles
First off, don't try to compare "zerg can't do x in a tvz, ergo p shouldn't be able to do x in pvt." it's a really useless and biased argument.
You are trying to rationalize p and t nerfs with why Z is so hard to play, which doesn't make sense. Remember, p and t nerfs still effect each other Which i feel you aren't giving one ounce of experienced thought into.
What if as a p, you were planning on saving 3 chronos for a really fast warpgate research. But then The terran decided he wants to make 2 rax marader. Literally impossible to scout with a t wall. It would turn into a real autoloss, since you couldn't be CB'ing 2 gateways.
Like i said, don't try to view this as a "omg t and t nerfs, how does this effect the race I play, then let me justify why," think of the big picture and how this effects every matchup and every stage of the game.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
Whether it's fake or not it probably is meant to read as sentries now have vision over cliffs like if you were to put an air unit next to a cliff. The same vision would now be applied if this were real.
too good to be true, probably fake... especially the chrono cool down... nexus has no way to energy dump like scans and creep tumors... the only thing it can do is chrono...
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
high ground
psionic units now have vision of the air plane still terrible wording, even with the proper preposition
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
Whoah! I'm a Terran player, and I gotta say, I love the MULE nerf. It will really be more punishing to forget your MULE's. Now if they could just remove autorepair the game would be perfect in my eyes.
Its also worth noting that the psionic tag actually doesn't do anything currently unless i missed something, so making it do something would make SOME sense.
in early and mid game mules were only helping you cath up the economy of your opponet races with Chronoboosted probes and 10-12 drones to and expo zergs. But I guess i can live with this, altough I dont like this much.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
I disagree with 100% of everything you have said, respectfully. I dt' rushed in a pvt, and the t did a slow push from about the middle of the map to my main, with the use of turrets and scans. Very interesting. Maybe you should play some BW and see how damn important it is to have saved detection(i'll admit though they really aren't comparable since one is a free resource, the other cuts into mineral count)
Not being able to chrono 2 things at once I think would break the game. There are litterally 100's of timing pushes where you have to chrono 2 things at once. Another 100,s when you are getting cheesed and have to have an emergency unit out. Stopping fast pools from zergs? Stopping Reaper rushes? Stopping fast marader pushes? How are you supposed to predict that a rush is coming? Are you just supposed to not spend any on your nexus? Are you supposed to spend on your nexus and just pray to god a rush doesnt come within the time proximity of your chrono?
Please think before posting....
I don't see the problem at all.
You can still save up energy for scans, the only difference is that you just can't use up the energy like you do now if you decide to save it.
Let's say I am T and I see a dark shrine, I make a raven, but ofcourse that can get sniped so I want to keep atleast 1 scan when I move out.
Let's now say the T didn't need that scan, well he now has to calldown supply, wich is ofcourse worse then a mule.
Yes it is a "nerf" but I mean it's not like you can't save up energy anymore, you still have the same max energy.
I mean if I get banshee/voidray rushed, what do I do? I save up energy on both my queens for just 1 transfuse, that are spawn larva injects that I will never get back, but I can still spread some extra creep tumors, but it's still 'worse' then I had spawnd larva.
On the P part.
How does a zerg predict that a rush is coming? Never make drones untill they feel completely safe? You now will have to think ahead with chronoboost, for example. You need better scouting/gamesense to properly use it.
Okay the zerg may be baneling bust, I don't know for sure yet, Do I take the risk of chronoboosting probes? Or do I chronoboost the sentry?
And YES it's a worse situation, but I don't see how it breakes the game, you will just get punished hard for making the wrong decision.
Do you only play zerg? because thats what it sounds like Since i play high level random (like top 50 NA) I get to complain and have viewpoints from 9 angles
First off, don't try to compare "zerg can't do x in a tvz, ergo p shouldn't be able to do x in pvt." it's a really useless and biased argument.
You are trying to rationalize p and t nerfs with why Z is so hard to play, which doesn't make sense. Remember, p and t nerfs still effect each other Which i feel you aren't giving one ounce of experienced thought into.
What if as a p, you were planning on saving 3 chronos for a really fast warpgate research. But then The terran decided he wants to make 2 rax marader. Literally impossible to scout with a t wall. It would turn into a real autoloss, since you couldn't be CB'ing 2 gateways.
Like i said, don't try to view this as a "omg t and t nerfs, how does this effect the race I play, then let me justify why," think of the big picture and how this effects every matchup and every stage of the game.
Well, thats the thing isn't it? Now you have to chrono boost your gateway units directly. Blizzard stated that they wanted to delay the Warp Gate mineral dumping and this is a way to do it. No more 1 zealot, 1 sentry and then going for Warps.
Imho this game needs some radical changes. And some of the content in this fake/or not patch notes are quite radical. Imho i was hoping for more game changes. But lets see what they do.
On September 16 2010 19:22 Gulzt wrote: Spelling mistakes don't proof this post is fake, it's translated from Russian.
Anyway, let's dream this is true. I'd be very happy. Won't be long before we know.
why would the original patch notes be written in russian then translated into english? sounds like the reverse would make more sense if this was written in russian with poor grammar then this would make more sense
On September 16 2010 19:22 Sisko wrote: Its also worth noting that the psionic tag actually doesn't do anything currently unless i missed something, so making it do something would make SOME sense.
Bro look at psyonic units... Ghosts, HTs, Defiler... they're top "imba" class already, most cost efficient units there are. Buffing THEM even further? Kinda weird. I mean blizzard clearly hates cost efficient units, or they wouldn't nerf siege tank in a way that rather nerfs them for TvP than TvZ.
On September 16 2010 19:08 lololol wrote: - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
They already do, so it's fake notes mixed with the real ones.
It means extra inteceptors so you don't have to build them yourself when the carrier spawns.
I'm still skeptical about the notes though, but we'll see.
Then it would be "increased from 4 to 8", since Blizzard always words their changes like that.
There's also a bunch of "WTF?" changes: The psionic units seeing over cliffs makes no sense. 20 energy cost of spawn larva, when all costs are multiples of 25 and the change is pretty insignificant. Decreasing PF buildtime? The bug does not affect only Immortal warp ins. The overlord speed change with excreting creep is pretty insignificant/pointless.
On September 16 2010 19:22 Sisko wrote: Its also worth noting that the psionic tag actually doesn't do anything currently unless i missed something, so making it do something would make SOME sense.
Bro look at psyonic units... Ghosts, HTs, Defiler... they're top "imba" class already, most cost efficient units there are. Buffing THEM even further? Kinda weird. I mean blizzard clearly hates cost efficient units, or they wouldn't nerf siege tank in a way that rather nerfs them for TvP than TvZ.
I am not making any argument as to the value of the units. I am saying the unit tags such as Armored, Massive, Biological, Mechanical all trigger other units to deal more damage or change how they work.
As far as I know, Psionic has no effect anywhere and this would fix that.
On September 16 2010 19:27 Tabbris wrote: How will you dump your energy if you miss a chronoboost? So we cant save a chronoboost at the begining of the game? this makes no sense
This is true, imho they should make it 50 energy for 40 seconds of boosting. The Nexus needs another spell too - i posted about that in the beta forum but got nothing back.
I bet it will come in the expansion - its blizzard after all.
On September 16 2010 19:16 Tergeron wrote: "General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane."
How to ruin PvP 101
Who's ready for Sentries looking up ramps to warp in stuff on top of your cliff anywhere?
Add another post to claim these notes are fake.
Thats actually a good point. Would make protoss so much stronger. No need to get a robo + observer for blink attacks, that would be soooo strong against all races.
On September 16 2010 19:27 Tabbris wrote: How will you dump your energy if you miss a chronoboost? So we cant save a chronoboost at the begining of the game? this makes no sense
I thought the nexus started at 0 energy, so the traditional boost for probes would come at the correct time.
After that you would need to chain them for the most part to not build up energy and once you reached 99 energy the only way to not max out would be to constantly chain them since the refill is slightly slower than the drain of chaining them with this cooldown.
For those who still don't understand why P players are complaining about Chronoboost, I'll make it concise.
A 20 second cooldown on Chronoboost early game with one base means you can't save up, for example, 75 energy to be used simultaneously for Warp Gate technology and 2 Gateways training zealots to reinforce the wall if your getting zergling rushed. The cooldown on 1 base early game means you can only boost 1 building at a time which obviously reduces the versatility of chronoboosts.
As for the whole "we would have too unspent energy". If you use a chronoboost which lasts 20s, consumes 25 energy, has a 20s cooldown, during the 20s of being CB'd you approx. regain 12 energy, so the differential of keeping your CB macro up is a deficit of approx 12-13 energy per use NOT a surplus or even to the extent reach its equilibrium level.
If this is just a troll Blizzard should consider adding whoever made these patch notes to the balancing team. Psionic units seeing up cliffs sounds a bit iffy, but at least lorewise I can see this making sense.
Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Yeah, blizzard admins deleting spam about made up patch changes sure is a sign of something! Have any of you read that? Of course they will remove spam topics about made up patch changes on the blizzard forums, its no conspiracy lol...
if you go to battle.net boards there are threads like these every day!
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
That alone make it fake (and makes me lol).
Blues will delete obviously retarded things. Just because something is deleted doesn't make it true.
[edit] Added some emphasis
define plane: an unbounded two-dimensional shape; "we will refer to the plane of the graph as the X-Y plane"; "any line joining two points on a plane lies wholly on that plane"
?? Google before post.
what? so what is that supposed to mean? psionic units now have vision in the air plane? wtf does that mean then?
Think of it as Balanar with Aghanims Scepter if you played Dota. It means unhindered vision. No cliffs blocking vision.
Oh wow, wtf, NS can use aghas now. gg. I've been away from dota for so long...
Seriously though, WTF is the point of arguing something that is COMPLETELY inconsequential. When the patch is released it will come with patch notes.... until then who gives a shit.
Pretty sure this is a fake, it has way too many suggestions from Team Liquid, a lot of the notes don't even make sense. Going to wait for a blue post to confirm the notes.
On September 16 2010 18:39 billyX333 wrote: this thing is hilariously fake ppl save energy on the CC and nexus intentionally, the new cooldown really puts a shackle on strategy overlords excreting creep while moving, wtf is the point of that?
Tell me why you would ever save up energy on a CC? The thing is terran's usually pool up energy on their CC because they don't MULE everytime they get the energy for it, but like it now is, it doesn't matter since they can call down some mules all at the same time.
And look at this: Chronoboost duration: 20 secs
What does this mean? If you use chronoboost well you can still chronoboost 1 building continually. Do you want to chronoboost multiple things? I guess youll need multiple nexii.
What does this do? You have to use chronoboost everytime it is up, so ye if you plan to save them up to then just chronoboost like 4 buildings at once you can't do that anymore.
Anyway, I do think that they are fake, but we'll see.
I disagree with 100% of everything you have said, respectfully. I dt' rushed in a pvt, and the t did a slow push from about the middle of the map to my main, with the use of turrets and scans. Very interesting. Maybe you should play some BW and see how damn important it is to have saved detection(i'll admit though they really aren't comparable since one is a free resource, the other cuts into mineral count)
Not being able to chrono 2 things at once I think would break the game. There are litterally 100's of timing pushes where you have to chrono 2 things at once. Another 100,s when you are getting cheesed and have to have an emergency unit out. Stopping fast pools from zergs? Stopping Reaper rushes? Stopping fast marader pushes? How are you supposed to predict that a rush is coming? Are you just supposed to not spend any on your nexus? Are you supposed to spend on your nexus and just pray to god a rush doesnt come within the time proximity of your chrono?
Please think before posting....
I don't see the problem at all.
You can still save up energy for scans, the only difference is that you just can't use up the energy like you do now if you decide to save it.
Let's say I am T and I see a dark shrine, I make a raven, but ofcourse that can get sniped so I want to keep atleast 1 scan when I move out.
Let's now say the T didn't need that scan, well he now has to calldown supply, wich is ofcourse worse then a mule.
Yes it is a "nerf" but I mean it's not like you can't save up energy anymore, you still have the same max energy.
I mean if I get banshee/voidray rushed, what do I do? I save up energy on both my queens for just 1 transfuse, that are spawn larva injects that I will never get back, but I can still spread some extra creep tumors, but it's still 'worse' then I had spawnd larva.
On the P part.
How does a zerg predict that a rush is coming? Never make drones untill they feel completely safe? You now will have to think ahead with chronoboost, for example. You need better scouting/gamesense to properly use it.
Okay the zerg may be baneling bust, I don't know for sure yet, Do I take the risk of chronoboosting probes? Or do I chronoboost the sentry?
And YES it's a worse situation, but I don't see how it breakes the game, you will just get punished hard for making the wrong decision.
Do you only play zerg? because thats what it sounds like Since i play high level random (like top 50 NA) I get to complain and have viewpoints from 9 angles
First off, don't try to compare "zerg can't do x in a tvz, ergo p shouldn't be able to do x in pvt." it's a really useless and biased argument.
You are trying to rationalize p and t nerfs with why Z is so hard to play, which doesn't make sense. Remember, p and t nerfs still effect each other Which i feel you aren't giving one ounce of experienced thought into.
What if as a p, you were planning on saving 3 chronos for a really fast warpgate research. But then The terran decided he wants to make 2 rax marader. Literally impossible to scout with a t wall. It would turn into a real autoloss, since you couldn't be CB'ing 2 gateways.
Like i said, don't try to view this as a "omg t and t nerfs, how does this effect the race I play, then let me justify why," think of the big picture and how this effects every matchup and every stage of the game.
Well, thats the thing isn't it? Now you have to chrono boost your gateway units directly. Blizzard stated that they wanted to delay the Warp Gate mineral dumping and this is a way to do it. No more 1 zealot, 1 sentry and then going for Warps.
Imho this game needs some radical changes. And some of the content in this fake/or not patch notes are quite radical. Imho i was hoping for more game changes. But lets see what they do.
If we are going to be taking blizzards 1.1 patch notes out of context, I might as well also.
They also said "We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this(proxygates as explained in the zealot nerf sentence) rush is too small." Can someone explain to me how its going to be possible to respond to a proxy marade r(or even reaper) without being able to chrono two buildings at once. You would basically have to scout every proxy location before start spending chrono on your nexus.
wow if those aren't real, i suggest blizzard balancing team to hire the guy who came up with those...one downside though .. no mention of the chat channels
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
I don't think a Blizzard employee could spell larvae wrong.
- Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
yeah sure...
Bugfixes
Blizzard don't mention exploit fixes in patch notes like this?
and this is not including the huge amount of changes, we already know that blizzard are going to tweak during release, not like during beta and these balance changes are bigger than anything in beta anyway...
Not a fan of the chrono change, because I liked the dual stalker opening which required chronoing both gateways at the same time as soon as the core finished, but I think it will improve PvP a bit.
Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Yeah, blizzard admins deleting spam about made up patch changes sure is a sign of something! Have any of you read that? Of course they will remove spam topics about made up patch changes on the blizzard forums, its no conspiracy lol...
We already know this from other blizzard games. Before every patch there will be hundreds of trolls trying to make people believe in their made up patch notes and OF COURSE blizzard will delete this crap posts. That's no evidence that these are legal.
It would certainly be an interesting patch if it was true. But there are a few things that don't make sense like: - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt. Carriers already have 4 Interceptors. Does that mean it would come out with 4 Interceptors in its queue?
- The lack of "Dead units don't grant you vision anymore"
I hope they take all the reasonable changes from this patch and apply it. The Terran MULE CD, Chrono CD, etc are amazing. Don't quite understand the obviously fake lines, you're trying to bait people into believing this : (
For the possible changes to nexus and command center abilities. It seems like the intention of blizzard was to provide all 3 races an ability to make the game more dynamic that related a lot to macro. Zerg already has a cooldown before they can use their larva ability. Also they have 2 other abilities to spend their energy on.
Terran has 3 powerful abilities, 2 of which can help macro. Putting one on long cooldown will slow down terran's advantage to "catch up" almost instantly.
Protoss chrono boost is arguably the best ability in high level player. Putting a small cooldown on the ability will force protoss to focus a lot more on using chrono boosts often and make certain rush or timing attacks (like void rays, 4 gate, etc) much more difficult.
not only do i question the existence of this bug, but i also question the spelling ability of the troll who wrote this. and i dont think they would use the word "walking" when referring to larva
LOL I just tested it - they do fall off the cliffs! (actually they die at the top)
They should reintroduce Shield Battery Effect on the Nexus for an additional energy dump if this is real. Also, it will help with some of the more abusive all-in rushes that will be harder to stop with the increased Zealot time.
DUDE!!!! YES! Mule CD and Chronoboost CD makes it SOOO much on par with Spawn Larvae...
why??
because you can't stack spawn larvae on one hatch.
for example.. if a terran has 100 energy he can call down 2 mules if a zerg has 50 energy on his queen... he can spend the extra 25 on another spawn larvae (assuming you dont move the queen)
this is a BOSS change if it's true (which i'm hoping it is)
EDIT: 40s also makes sense because that's about the time one mule lasts...
Probably fake, but you can never rule anything out. I know there have been WoW patch notes that everyone thought were fake but were real, and the strange wording and grammar turned out to be because the leaked before final copy editing.
Seems fake but I would like for those Zerg changes to be true. Anything to increase the number of Zerg players out there. In the last fifteen games or so I've had probably two zerg matches.
On September 16 2010 19:42 Shakes wrote: Probably fake, but you can never rule anything out. I know there have been WoW patch notes that everyone thought were fake but were real, and the strange wording and grammar turned out to be because the leaked before final copy editing.
Actually the most recent case was that the patch notes were translated from Taiwanese.
i hope its legit, those changes are really interesting!
Overlords speed: Hell, it's about time! The new moving-overlord-creep mechanic sounds great - imagine having 5 overlords over your army of hydras and they have constant creep around them! Its a huge deal if it works as I imagine!
The Chronoboost and MULE cooldowns really makes the races more equal, but I'm not too sure if it's beneficial for Chronoboost - kinda fucks up the whole tactical saving stuff, but on the other hand it opened so many timing windows...
The decreased Spawn Larva cost helps you poring out more creep tumors without missing spits, I thinks it's a good change.
Nydus Worm change really helps using it early on due to decreasing the amount of money you might have to spend, good change
I don't get this 'General' change with psionic units O.o
No matter how much you wish so Blizzard wont read some fake patch note and suddenly decide to put them in their game. It wont give them a "heureka" moment. everything in this patch has been considered by blizzard besides possibly the psionic seeing up cliffs.
Buffing and nerfing build times, cooldowns etc. These are obvious things that blizzard can not possibly have overlooked. Thus this patch wont "open blizzards eyes"
To those saying it's CLEARLY fake because of grammatical errors, just keep in mind that it was translated from Russian first and probably English to Russian before that. If you remember playing Chinese Whispers, this is what could've happened.
ie.
air plane = high ground
Carrier buff could read, Carriers now spawn with 4 additional interceptors
On September 16 2010 19:41 Keitzer wrote: DUDE!!!! YES! Mule CD and Chronoboost CD makes it SOOO much on par with Spawn Larvae...
why??
because you can't stack spawn larvae on one hatch.
And I can't spam 800 mules on one CC either.
Make a second hatch and your one queen is now spawning larvae as soon as the energy is there, and you're outmacroing any terran or toss because we have limitations on how many units we can make.
I could believe these patch notes, and if not then I hope blizzard is reading.
Terran and Protoss macro mechanics being more mechanically intensive is only a good thing, raise that skill cap a little without ruthlessly punishing lower players.
- Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair.
doesn't work I've tested it extensively the dot shows through buildings. there is an issue with the graphics settings though
- Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. (lol 400 minerals) - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt. (they already do)
- Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds.
both obviously fake
- Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active.
Overlord speed buffs are pretty LOL combined with moving creep generation? That would be so insanely broken.
Plus all the spelling grammatical and unit ability typos. This is so obviously fake
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Maps - Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed. - Various ladder maps have been added.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds. - Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds. - Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode. - Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. - Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80. - Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas. - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8. - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas. - 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building. - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes - Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows. - Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair. - Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers. - Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates. - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen. - Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General - Improved the functionality of voice chat. - Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands. - Numerous performance and stability improvements.
This looks pretty legit, but I'll hold my breath until I see something official.
Overall I like every one of the changes I see listed. If it is a fake, it's very convincing and the person did a great job on it. I really hope these are true though. The overlord changes are not something I have seen much talk about, but the way they are presented in the patch notes really gives me hope as a Zerg player.
Overlord speed increase will help Zerg scouting immensely, and make drops viable even without the speed upgrade. And spreading creep while moving is just awesome. It's a total buff to all zerg ground, but hydras in particular.
The only things I don't like completely are: 20 sec cooldown on chronoboost 40 sec cooldown on MULE
I like the idea of a cooldown, but I think it should be a little less, to allow some margin of error. At least for protoss who have no other energy dump from their nexus. Terran can at least scan or call supplies if their macro isn't perfect. I think a 10 sec chronoboost, and 20 second MULE cooldown would be better.
Btw maybe Blizzard "leaked" this on purpose just to judge our response? :p Basically the same as when they released the "patch thoughts" a while ago. Testing the water to see if the community agrees.
On September 16 2010 19:49 Sealteam wrote: I could believe these patch notes, and if not then I hope blizzard is reading.
Terran and Protoss macro mechanics being more mechanically intensive is only a good thing, raise that skill cap a little without ruthlessly punishing lower players.
How the hell does adding cooldowns to MULEs and chrono boost raise the skill cap?
Perfectly timing buildings, unit production, and research because you're chrono boosting several things at precisely the right time is somewhat more mechanically involved than spamming V at your hatcheries every 40 seconds.
There's nothing hard about zerg macro, mechanically. Every decent player checks their production buildings constantly, why is checking your hatcheries harder?
The only tricky part about zerg macro is every unit coming out of the same larvae, but that doesn't have anything to do with using your queen ability.
On September 16 2010 19:57 Sapphire.lux wrote: Sentry, HT, DT, Archon (and Colossus) can see up clifs? lol Sounds fake to me.
Queens and ghosts are psionic too right? Yeah lets give Zergs the ability to see up cliffs by default -.- right.
Yeah don't you get it? It means dropping on the cliffs on LT might actually be defendable. You still have to get very close to the cliff to be able to see up it but it would help.
Planetary Fortress build time is a huge FAKE cry as well as the 20 queen energy the previous fake notes always included the 20 energy for inject larva but with the queen nest ability. So they made more fake notes using the same queen energy but left out the nest ability because it makes it obvious every time.
Moving creep spewing would allow for stupid shit like offensive spine crawlers very very easily. Plus stupid things that are plain false like being able to hide a nuke dot (ps you can't I've tested it)
On September 16 2010 19:57 Sapphire.lux wrote: Sentry, HT, DT, Archon (and Colossus) can see up clifs? lol Sounds fake to me.
Queens and ghosts are psionic too right? Yeah lets give Zergs the ability to see up cliffs by default -.- right.
Yeah don't you get it? It means dropping on the cliffs on LT might actually be defendable. You still have to get very close to the cliff to be able to see up it but it would help.
Seeing up the LT cliff was never the hard part about defending the drop.
If its true, we have there a lot of brilliant changes especially cool down for Chrono Boost and Mule, but one thing is suspicious because this is already in game...
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
And
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
seems a bit unrealistic... That's mean you can go with a cloaked ghost and put some nuclears from low ground to high ground without scanning it...
no marauder nerf? why make zeals take longer to build but no change on marine/marauder? going to be even harder for toss to stop early infantry rush now , so sad
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Sweet!
Actually that pretty much seems fake based on that line alone. Also the overlord nearly doubling in default speed, I'm not buying it.
I have no problem with that. Zerg scouting is one of their most obvious problems. They will also be able to spread creep better which will help vs Hellion and Reaper harass. They all seem reasonable but I hope they at least start to fix MMM.
Not sure about the Chronoboost thing. But the Mule cooldown would be definitely cool. I cant believe the speed change to the overlords. This will be totally game-changing and not typical for blozzard. Although it is necsessary
On September 16 2010 19:57 Sapphire.lux wrote: Sentry, HT, DT, Archon (and Colossus) can see up clifs? lol Sounds fake to me.
Queens and ghosts are psionic too right? Yeah lets give Zergs the ability to see up cliffs by default -.- right.
Yeah don't you get it? It means dropping on the cliffs on LT might actually be defendable. You still have to get very close to the cliff to be able to see up it but it would help.
Seeing up the LT cliff was never the hard part about defending the drop.
Exactly.
I like the change to mule, but not the chrono. I think that its awsome you can implement usage of chronoboost to build. If this would go through toss would just be forced to chrono whenever they can.
Oh btw, the change to mules arent going to change anything for good players. Im currebtly doing marines tank medivac vs zerg. Going to be fun to see what the tank change will do to this composition.
I was raging quite hard when i saw the CB nerf. Until i saw that mules are nerfed too so its much more fair. Marauders still not nerfed.
Zealots is interesting. From the situation report i thought that all units from warpgate has increased cooldown, but its only zealots? So Zeals CD is longer than stalkers/sentries/HT/dt?
i suppose the ovies fixes zerg scouting problems but speed seems pretty damn fast
The chronoboost change is stupid, the only use in late game was to boost your gates, which meant that you dropped like 8 boosts in a row on your gates.
Also, I thought Carriers spawned with 4 interceptors already ?
On September 16 2010 20:11 b_unnies wrote: I was raging quite hard when i saw the CB nerf. Until i saw that mules are nerfed too so its much more fair. Marauders still not nerfed.
Zealots is interesting. From the situation report i thought that all units from warpgate has increased cooldown, but its only zealots? So Zeals CD is longer than stalkers/sentries/HT/dt?
i suppose the ovies fixes zerg scouting problems but speed seems pretty damn fast
More ladder maps is nice
The cooldown depends on the last unit warped in, not what are you going to warp in next. Zealots still have a lower CD than the other warpgate units.
I would just like to point out that if changing the overlord speed like that would be broken, that both warp prisms and medivacs are already faster than that (2.5 and 2.75 respectively). The warp prism can even upgrade it's speed to 3.125 making it one of the fastest units in the game(Not that I ever see anyone get this except in very specific immortal drop builds).
Can someone please explain to me this mule/chrono needing a cooldown to be on par with larvae? If you do not mule when you have the energy you will be at a big resorce disadvantage. If you do not chrono you will be at a big resorce and/or unit count disadvantage.
The inject larvae mechanic is equivalent to the reactor/warp in mechanic. Forget to warp in after the cooldown is over and you're numbers will be smaller, the same for Terran + the stronger units can not be reactored.
Would the Psionic ground type include ghosts? I can't remember if they are psionic.
The overlord speed is a huge advantage, the Zerg inside me is cheering! The only thing I don't like is that the Ultralisk is getting nerfed D: but I guess it is way too powerful. Blizz should make it less powerful and decrease the build time. I have lost because of their slow build time, like a push comes right before they hatch, and I lose.
The reaper build time increase will not change the reaper that much, and I still believe that 5rax reaper will still be a legitimate strategy.
On September 16 2010 20:19 Sapphire.lux wrote: Can someone please explain to me this mule/chrono needing a cooldown to be on par with larvae? If you do not mule when you have the energy you will be at a big resorce disadvantage. If you do not chrono you will be at a big resorce and/or unit count disadvantage.
The inject larvae mechanic is equivalent to the reactor/warp in mechanic. Forget to warp in after the cooldown is over and you're numbers will be smaller, the same for Terran + the stronger units can not be reactored.
The translation excuse is pretty ridiculous. The patch notes are in english, even in the russian site and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
Kind of funny how I wouldn't mind the mule nerf too much since I have the problem of automuling every cooldown (or a few sec later) even when I'm trying to keep the mental note of saving one scan
If true then this would at least solve zergs early game scouting problems pretty hard.
These updates look really nice, I especially enjoy the overlord speed movements... finally somewhat better scouting and more importantly better / faster drops! :D
On September 16 2010 20:22 lololol wrote: The translation excuse is pretty ridiculous. The patch notes are in english, even in the russian site and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
This I don't even know why this thread is still open but an admin posted in the first page so I'm hesitant to be too adamant in this point. There are a ton of reasons why these are obviously fake and they keep getting listed over and over and over again as the thread swells in size.
This would be a wonderful patch, also I miss a little more changes for Zerg. Protoss & Terran now requiere skill to makro!
Even if its fake (which I sadly believe) its a good one, because some changes are weired as Blizzard always produces some "Oh BC dmg is too strong"-notes. Psychonic units will see on high ground with this patch, which would be hella stupid, if u consider the already weakness of defenders. Or the PF buildtime reduce...
Some creative Ideas also in it, like "pasting" the ground with overlord creepskill, could lead to agressive Hydra play!!! wow wtf this would be huge.
btw I dont like the 250mm changes: 1.) It still makes no sense to give it energy, when u cant use it without the research, CD would be better 2.) making it able to target neutral units/structures would lead to many dead automaton 2000...that would make me cry
Adding a cooldown to chronoboost and mule is a nice change. Before, only zerg couldn't make up for forgetting to use their macro mechanic. This makes things fair, which is always welcome.
I love the changes to overlords, especially shitting creep while moving. Finally creep can actually be used offensively, which should open up interesting possibilities. Also, having more creep available should indirectly boost hydralisks. Very very interesting feature, I can't wait to see how this plays out.
- 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
finally i can accidentally shoot my own units with it. been waiting for that.
Lol would u rather shoot your own marine? or risk getting 200damage from feedback? As it is, Thors can't empty their manapool in any way other than shooting enemies. There's not gonna always be Ultralisks or Archon around.
On September 16 2010 20:19 Sapphire.lux wrote: Can someone please explain to me this mule/chrono needing a cooldown to be on par with larvae? If you do not mule when you have the energy you will be at a big resorce disadvantage. If you do not chrono you will be at a big resorce and/or unit count disadvantage.
there's no doubt about that, however, terran can just put down 2x mules if he forgets one and he gets all the resources he would've mined if he had called them down immediately when the cooldown was ready. what this means is that in a timing window when you sit in your base and produce units, if your opponent isn't lucky enough to attack you right in that window where you forgot your mule, you will in fact be at no disadvantage overall.
same goes for toss chrono boost.
zerg can't do that. when we forget larvae once, we can't just inject 2 times and get 6 more units instantly. and even if our opponents don't attack us, those 3 units missing carry on, cause at any point after that you could have had 3 units more.
On September 16 2010 20:22 lololol wrote: The translation excuse is pretty ridiculous. The patch notes are in english, even in the russian site and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
This I don't even know why this thread is still open but an admin posted in the first page so I'm hesitant to be too adamant in this point. There are a ton of reasons why these are obviously fake and they keep getting listed over and over and over again as the thread swells in size.
The overlord now moves exactly as fast as the queen offcreep. Thats a clear indication that they're looking to fix early game scouting in ZvZ and the reason why i think these are real. A noob looking to make fake patch notes would not have any grasp on that. And would have simply picked a random speed for the new overlord.
On September 16 2010 20:22 lololol wrote: The translation excuse is pretty ridiculous. The patch notes are in english, even in the russian site and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
This I don't even know why this thread is still open but an admin posted in the first page so I'm hesitant to be too adamant in this point. There are a ton of reasons why these are obviously fake and they keep getting listed over and over and over again as the thread swells in size.
The overlord now moves exactly as fast as the queen offcreep. Thats a clear indication that they're looking to fix early game scouting in ZvZ and the reason why i think these are real. A noob looking to make fake patch notes would not have any grasp on that. And would have simply picked a random speed for the new overlord.
Seems like good changes. wouldnt say its fake or true. but rly hope thoose fake screamers have to eat it if it drops to be true. awsomeness =)
Good to see that zerg might have an easier time to scout. Mule nerf is rly good for balance. Cant say so much about protoss, have to w8 and see how the defendings of the beginning rushes goes.
I think there are lots of reasonable patch notes, but I think the overlord buff is way too drastic. I'm a Zerg player but that's just ridiculous, Zerg might as well have maphack until the opponent has phoenixes / vikings (and even then the ovies could retreat way too fast). I'm all for a speed buff for them, but 2x speed is too huge.
On September 16 2010 20:32 Eleclight wrote: I think there are lots of reasonable patch notes, but I think the overlord buff is way too drastic. I'm a Zerg player but that's just ridiculous, Zerg might as well have maphack until the opponent has phoenixes / vikings (and even then the ovies could retreat way too fast). I'm all for a speed buff for them, but 2x speed is too huge.
I call fake.
Or marines or stalkers ? The overlord is still slow, you just get a little more scouting done which is exactly what ZvZ and ZvT needed.
Looks a lot more reasonable than the last rumored patch notes I read (the one with colored FFs lol); looking forward to this if it turns out to be true.
On September 16 2010 20:37 Voidz wrote: I haven't seen a single Thor in 400 games (i'm protoss), also, if terran goes thors, there's no point getting HT's, as they are made for MMM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean PSIONIC UNITS CAN SEE UP CLIFFS?!?!?!?
I really don't understand why this would be desirable. This seems to just diminish the high ground advantage even more, and it seems like it's just a bunch of random units that are labeled psionic without any connecting theme between the race's psionic units. Very confusing to me.
Yeah, seriously, remove energy from thor and make the 250mm an ability rather than a spell. That wouldnt change the TvZ matchup, but help thors in the TvP MU.
Regardless of whether or not the values or even the changes themselves are real, these changes are pretty much exactly along the lines of what blizzard needs to do with this game.
On September 16 2010 20:32 Eleclight wrote: I think there are lots of reasonable patch notes, but I think the overlord buff is way too drastic. I'm a Zerg player but that's just ridiculous, Zerg might as well have maphack until the opponent has phoenixes / vikings (and even then the ovies could retreat way too fast). I'm all for a speed buff for them, but 2x speed is too huge.
I call fake.
That would only bring the OL upgraded speed to the speed of a slow medvac, or a slow upgraded observer, so.. I don't think it's even close to OP. The only problem imo is the early scouting, a faster OL means faster scout without sacrificing any drone to scouting, and easier to get the OL out of harm when a marine/stalker comes out.
These patch notes would be awesome if true. Also, don't forget about the ovie creep while moving - it would make a very very thin creep highway (especially with upgraded ovie speed) probably only wide enough for a conga line. While not great for flanking, this would certainly help with early roach / hydra pressure and counter attacks.
I think the psionic air vision is made especially with queens and cliff thor drops in mind. Right now, sending a slow ovie to get the vision means getting it sniped by the thor's incredible range.
EDIT: And about the cooldown on chronoboost: protoss will still be able to save and then get rid of their energy and keep a particular building constantly chronoboosted (which will deplete energy faster than it regenerates). They just won't be able to save energy then chronoboost 5 buildings at once.
Mule cooldown would mean more T spending energy in a different way - especially scanning (definitely more creep tumor hunting.) It's definitely bringing the mechanic in line with the other races - I can't tell you how many times I send a ling to an expo, see nothing, come back 2 minutes later and there's a CC with 8 mules dropped which just lifts off afterwards by the time hydras get there .
On September 16 2010 20:40 Jzerg wrote: These patch notes would be awesome if true. Also, don't forget about the ovie creep while moving - it would make a very very thin creep highway (especially with upgraded ovie speed) probably only wide enough for a conga line. While not great for flanking, this would certainly help with early roach / hydra pressure and counter attacks.
Just have to magic box a line of 3-4 OL, and you get a wide creep highway :D
On September 16 2010 20:39 im a roc wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean PSIONIC UNITS CAN SEE UP CLIFFS?!?!?!?
I really don't understand why this would be desirable. This seems to just diminish the high ground advantage even more, and it seems like it's just a bunch of random units that are labeled psionic without any connecting theme between the race's psionic units. Very confusing to me.
As it is, Psyonic as a label has no effects in the game. They can just do away with the label and it would change nothing.
On September 16 2010 20:40 Elmo wrote: The only problem imo is the early scouting, a faster OL means faster scout without sacrificing any drone to scouting, and easier to get the OL out of harm when a marine/stalker comes out.
How is that a problem? The PROBLEM right now is that Zerg doesnt have a scouting option between 15 and 30 supply, which causes ZvT to become a lottery for zerg if we build the right counter or not.
With the overlord speed boost we would get a huge increase in map avareness early game, and it would help offset our unit problems without having to directly nerf terran or toss units which could break that matchup.
On September 16 2010 20:45 Deathstar wrote: Mule doesn't need changing.
Are you serious?
What's your reasoning for changing the mule? Giving it a cooldown from 0 to 40 is ludicrous.
Comebacks from 4 SCVs versus 30 workers. Plus a 40 second cooldown would only really nerf stockpiling MULEs for gold minerals and make Terrans think about their MULE usage more.
On September 16 2010 20:45 Deathstar wrote: Mule doesn't need changing.
Are you serious?
What's your reasoning for changing the mule? Giving it a cooldown from 0 to 40 is ludicrous.
Maybe becaouse its been gone over and over again? Bad players can stock 200 energy and they dont suffer at any way becaouse they can just call down 4 mules at once. Zerg cant spawn 16 eggs at once.
On September 16 2010 20:45 Deathstar wrote: Mule doesn't need changing.
Are you serious?
What's your reasoning for changing the mule? Giving it a cooldown from 0 to 40 is ludicrous.
I can assume that his reasoning would be that forgetting to use MULE don't have any penalty as you can just spam 200 energy worth of mules in an instant. But that's just my guess as for his reasoning :o
On September 16 2010 20:19 Sapphire.lux wrote: Can someone please explain to me this mule/chrono needing a cooldown to be on par with larvae? If you do not mule when you have the energy you will be at a big resorce disadvantage. If you do not chrono you will be at a big resorce and/or unit count disadvantage.
there's no doubt about that, however, terran can just put down 2x mules if he forgets one and he gets all the resources he would've mined if he had called them down immediately when the cooldown was ready. what this means is that in a timing window when you sit in your base and produce units, if your opponent isn't lucky enough to attack you right in that window where you forgot your mule, you will in fact be at no disadvantage overall.
same goes for toss chrono boost.
zerg can't do that. when we forget larvae once, we can't just inject 2 times and get 6 more units instantly. and even if our opponents don't attack us, those 3 units missing carry on, cause at any point after that you could have had 3 units more.
I understand but i think it is a lot more delicate than that. With the (legit) Zealot build time/warp in increase and 20s chrono cooldown seems to much (might be ok though). I can see a cooldawn on mules for the late game but 40 sec seems a life time (you can just build ~3 scv), a 5-10s i could see though to force you to go back and forth.
The overlord changes are ridiculous i think, legit maphack.
On September 16 2010 20:53 Sapphire.lux wrote: The overlord changes are ridiculous i think, legit maphack.
I call fake, fake, fake.
Thats just retarded. You still get out a stalker at like 15 supply or thereabouts, after that zerg will still have to sacrifice overlords to scout your whole main.
has to be fake, unless im missing something here. their nerfing Zealot becouse of early agression from Protoss vs Zerg and PVP proxxy/korean allin. chroonoboost is also a spell that needs to be stacked to be on par with the other two abilities <Spawn larvaa - Mules> so makes no sence whatsoever why they would nerf 2 things that really fits togetter. nerfing the Chrono would fix pvp and PVZ early/midd. and the zealot nerf would aswell. both of them at once. is kinda sick and disgusts me.
i do like the Mule nerf tho. and DT shrine boost. but DT's still cost way to much to benefit from it unless ur oppnent is terrible and now that the mule nerf is comming, their even worse becouse ul have alot more scanns ect.
Until theres a bluepost about it this is just yet another fake one.
On September 16 2010 20:45 Deathstar wrote: Mule doesn't need changing.
Are you serious?
What's your reasoning for changing the mule? Giving it a cooldown from 0 to 40 is ludicrous.
I can assume that his reasoning would be that forgetting to use MULE don't have any penalty as you can just spam 200 energy worth of mules in an instant. But that's just my guess as for his reasoning :o
yep. to be equal to terran, protoss would be be able to stack their chrono boost all at once or zerg could inject larva in sets of 4 multiple times.
the chronoboost cooldown is garbage. sometimes it was really strategely usefull to save some chronoboost. lets say you switched to 3 gate carrier in lategame. you saved up 16 boosts from 4 nexus and then constantly chronoboosted. its not like the terran mules, where they just forgot using it and then spammed it.
Also, this change would completely destroy any strategy associated with chronoboost. There would be no more saving it up and deploying like 4 at once to get critical upgrades at a certain time or anything.
On September 16 2010 20:56 ensis wrote: the chronoboost cooldown is garbage. sometimes it was really strategely usefull to save some chronoboost. lets say you switched to 3 gate carrier in lategame. you saved up 16 boosts from 4 nexus and then constantly chronoboosted. its not like the terran mules, where they just forgot using it and then spammed it.
It's pretty good, no more chrono boost warpgates in the 4-5 warpgate all in
On September 16 2010 20:40 Elmo wrote: The only problem imo is the early scouting, a faster OL means faster scout without sacrificing any drone to scouting, and easier to get the OL out of harm when a marine/stalker comes out.
How is that a problem? The PROBLEM right now is that Zerg doesnt have a scouting option between 15 and 30 supply, which causes ZvT to become a lottery for zerg if we build the right counter or not.
With the overlord speed boost we would get a huge increase in map avareness early game, and it would help offset our unit problems without having to directly nerf terran or toss units which could break that matchup.
Yeah Overlord speed increase would be SWEET, but not two fold. Imagine spawning on close psotions in Lost Temple (or similar), would be too much of an advantage for zerg, imo.
On September 16 2010 20:56 ensis wrote: the chronoboost cooldown is garbage. sometimes it was really strategely usefull to save some chronoboost. lets say you switched to 3 gate carrier in lategame. you saved up 16 boosts from 4 nexus and then constantly chronoboosted.
assuming that the patchnotes are legit, you will still be able to do this after the patch
Blizzard might have deleted these notes because they are fake and do not want rumors to be flying around.
- Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane. This means a queen can see up a cliff??
- 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units. This is prob the most suspicious. Dumping energy in case of feedback is nice, but somehow I doubt blizzard will implement something like this =/
- Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. This I don't think is real as well. A common usage of dual chronoboost is to boost a stalker and warpgate at the same time when your cybernetic core is built. I think this interferes with how protoss spends chronoboost too much.
On September 16 2010 20:53 Sapphire.lux wrote: The overlord changes are ridiculous i think, legit maphack.
I call fake, fake, fake.
Thats just retarded. You still get out a stalker at like 15 supply or thereabouts, after that zerg will still have to sacrifice overlords to scout your whole main.
lol calm down. One stalker/ marine will not kill a turbo overlord. Apart from a bunch of Vikings or a ton of marines/turrets (wich come late ish in the game) nothing will stop (not from scounting, from eventualy killing it) the dear turbo Ove.
On September 16 2010 21:00 Jakalo wrote: Imagine spawning on close psotions in Lost Temple (or similar), would be too much of an advantage for zerg, imo.
We still only have like 33% chance to send the first ovie to the correct spot on LT or KR on first attempt. Wouldn't change much.
On September 16 2010 20:52 Baha wrote: Good patch, but they didn't touch roaches or hydras, so I hope everything is being nerfed.
Actually, with the biggest problem of hydralisks being that they're so slow off of creep, the change to allow overlords to spawn creep while moving would actually be very helpful here, in that you could have a bunch of overlords moving with the hydralisks to allow them to travel faster.
The build time decrease of 40 to 30 seconds of planatary fortress seems like evidence of it being real to me. No one complains about the fortress taking too long to build and someone making a fake would have no reason to include this, however, blizzards reasons may be less obvious to us.
On September 16 2010 20:56 ensis wrote: the chronoboost cooldown is garbage. sometimes it was really strategely usefull to save some chronoboost. lets say you switched to 3 gate carrier in lategame. you saved up 16 boosts from 4 nexus and then constantly chronoboosted.
assuming that the patchnotes are legit, you will still be able to do this after the patch
How?
I'm calling (and praying) this is fake. Some don't make sense like the carriers starting with 4 interceptors. If I have to re learn every BO cause CB is all fucked up I might go in a very dark corner and cry.
On September 16 2010 20:57 Tabbris wrote: also does anyone else think that "Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building" is ridiculously op. another sigh that its a fake
No it's not op at all. You'll still have the build cooldown, you'll just save some minerals.
On September 16 2010 20:56 ensis wrote: the chronoboost cooldown is garbage. sometimes it was really strategely usefull to save some chronoboost. lets say you switched to 3 gate carrier in lategame. you saved up 16 boosts from 4 nexus and then constantly chronoboosted.
assuming that the patchnotes are legit, you will still be able to do this after the patch
How?
If you have four nexuses you will still be able to chronoboost three buildings at the same time, no?
- 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
finally i can accidentally shoot my own units with it. been waiting for that.
Lol would u rather shoot your own marine? or risk getting 200damage from feedback? As it is, Thors can't empty their manapool in any way other than shooting enemies. There's not gonna always be Ultralisks or Archon around.
Chronoboost CD wouldnt make sense....I just remembered that Protoss cant use the energy elsewhere. Giving a nexus only energy for 2-3 Boosts would have the the effects ure asking for
If this is true, I don't really see the point of high ground anymore.
Once again, if this is true, first they removed the hit chance nerf up cliffs from SC1, and now they do this stupid sight thing? High ground would be nearly useless at this point.
Every protoss army has sentries, so they can now see up cliffs, and therefore forcefield up cliffs forever. Ehhh, we might as well play on completely flat maps.
Of course, I'm assuming it isn't true, but we'll see.
On September 16 2010 21:08 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Looks like a fake. Way too many changes, way too drastic. Blizzard has never done that, especially in retail games.
If it´s true Nexus would need another ability to. Also carrier already spawn with 4 interceptors. And overlords dropping creep while flying would be interesting to watch because it needs some time now when they stand still to drop creep and inflight it would such a narrow creeppath.
People arguing that OL is too fast in such (theoretical) setting should go and make a speed contest between the dropships of the 3 races. Even upgraded, zerg drop is always the slowest..
And it's so much cooler to see more zerg drops, but I think Blizzard would prefer to stimulate Nydus still, by keeping OLs slow. So this hints to a (clever) fake. We'll see.
Chrono boost cooldown means it is fake. Way too much strategy is derived from being able to CB different things. Also, still doesnt make the T energy balanced since they still have scan. If scan/supply/mule all shared the same cooldown it would be the same, otherwise they still can dump energy on whatever.
Also, dont buff planetary any more... that building is already absurdly strong against ground =\
Some of these are fantastic, the chrono boost change im not sure im a huge fan of, since there's build i use where i specifically save up chrono to use it on (for example) robo + robo bay at the same time (for collosi and range), the mule calldown-cooldown is amazing.
Obvioulsy im skeptical in general anyway, but the ones that most standout as a bit 'wtf?' are:
- Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Carriers alrdy spawn with four interceptors i think? Unless this WAS the case at one point and they removed it, cos i definitely remember building carriers and them spawning straight away with 4 interceptors, but i havent built carriers in a while... And the cost increase without some other boost seems downright bizzare to nerf a unit that alrdy sees little to no play-time in high level play...
- Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. Whilst the base speed upgrade makes sense (allowing z to actualy scout the whopping amount of gay shit the other races can throw at them off 1-base), i dont really see a major need for this one ^_~
- Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. This one seems downright retarded... seriously i dont understand this one at all, is anyone really complaining that planetary fortress's are too weak so they need to build quicker? If a T is greedy and expands to a spot it cant defend you should get a window to punish them, and i hardly think 50 seconds is too large of a window :\
This OL speed is... nifty Balancing macro mechanics...good
I hope this fulfills peoples' hopes for some sort of Zerg space control mechanic. Everything is just...bleh... I don't care too much for number tweaks.
On September 16 2010 21:18 DND_Enkil wrote: Must be fake, i actually agree with every one of thoose changes, with some reservation about psi units seeing high ground.
It is fake...the only logical change in those notes is the PF buff....It was obviously neeeded for a looooong time
On September 16 2010 21:03 TheFinalWord wrote: The build time decrease of 40 to 30 seconds of planatary fortress seems like evidence of it being real to me. No one complains about the fortress taking too long to build and someone making a fake would have no reason to include this, however, blizzards reasons may be less obvious to us.
Yes, reading this change was actually the one that made me think this was real, it's exactly the sort of left field, arbitrary change you see in Blizzard patch notes. Makes no sense for 1v1, but it's so small it's not really going to make much of a difference anyway, and it's usually to fix some weird timing in FFA or co-op against the AI or something.
On the other hand the bit about psyonic units seeing the air plane or whatever screams fake to me, it's exactly the kind of weird contrived change that you see people on forums making up on a daily basis - it's really badly worded and sounds like the sort of thing that someone spent 10 minutes thinking about without seeing any of the possible consequences and exploits. Blizzard have already stated they want the vision mechanic to be as simple and clear cut as possible, this change seems to fly in the face of that.
Regardless this is a very intriguing post and the most convincing set of 'leaked' patch notes so far.
On September 16 2010 20:38 Craton wrote: I'll eat a shoe if this list is real.
Most of these are just absurd.
None of them are absurd. They actually all make a good deal of sense.
Which ones in particular did you consider absurd?
Nerfing carrier cost, a long CD on chrono, creep while overlords move, doubling overlord speed.
None of that is balanced. It would be among the most idiotic changes Blizzard has done.
Oh, and how bout the fact that Carriers already start with 4 interceptors.
That's a buff to an almost useless unit in the current game, the CD on chrono could pretty much replace a zealot nerf. It actually won't affect high level players very much at all.
Zerg can't scout properly in the current patch, and they're the race that relies on scouting well. Any small buff to zerg scouting helps them play the reactive game they need to vs Terran and Protoss and will help make those relatively difficult matches more balanced for zerg.
Also the ovi moves very slowly while vomiting creep early game, so I fail to see the problems that will cause, if anything it will make queens a bit more useful.
So I don't think anything you've listed is an example of imbalance.
Excrete creep? Shouldn't that be Generate Creep? I doubt they'd change the name or give a new ability for spewing creep while moving. That + the 4 interceptor change scream fake to me.
(Although I think the overlord changes would be excellent)
Overlords pooping creep on the go seems a bit drastic of a change to do in one patch, especially combined with speed. This is Blizz we're talking about, here.
Some changes seem to be legit (they were announced), but a lot are obviously fake. IE I don't see blizzard doubling overlord base speed like that, maybe in the beta but not now. The whole psyonic vision thing is faked too obviously.
Also, I can't see blizzard put a cooldown on chronoboost and mule (it makes sense for mule, but its blizzard).
On September 16 2010 18:20 Floophead_III wrote: I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
thats the point? and its very fair, if you compare to the zerg macro mechanic
What I love about this, is the fairness in macro. I really hope chronoboost and mules get a cooldown. People say, we zerg can just build another hatchery to spew more larva. How about you just build another nexus/cc for more?
Overlord creeping on the go will make me want to make hydras, a very good change. PLEASE let the overlord change come.
Sentries, High Templars, Dark Templars, Archons and Queens - all of those will have vision on higher ground. This is retarded and obviously fake. No point in discussing this further, imo.
On September 16 2010 18:20 Floophead_III wrote: I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
thats the point? and its very fair, if you compare to the zerg macro mechanic
Except P macro mechanics don't work the same way that protoss ones do. Protoss don't want to chrono everytime the cooldown is up; Zerg want inject asap always (if they are injecting).
On September 16 2010 21:37 ChrisXIV wrote: I believed it until I saw the MULE cooldown.
Some confirmed changes mixed in with fake ones.
Why would you stop believing it then? the MULE cooldown is just about the most balanced change in those notes. Keep in mind that with that change it's still amazingly easy to use when compared to inject larvae. Being able to completely forget your macro mechanic for ages while concentrate on something else, and then spamming an obscene amount of MULEs to compensate whenever you have time for it is in no way difficult. This change would mean that while it would still not be very unforgiving, you can not just ignore your OC for excessive periods at a time.
On September 16 2010 18:20 Floophead_III wrote: I wonder if these are actually legit... they seem reasonable, though I'm not a huge fan of chrono/mule nerf. Definitely would make T/P macro much harder though.
thats the point? and its very fair, if you compare to the zerg macro mechanic
Except P macro mechanics don't work the same way that protoss ones do. Protoss don't want to chrono everytime the cooldown is up; Zerg want inject asap always (if they are injecting).
Also, warpgates are the equivalent macro mechanic to spawn larva. If you don't warp in as soon as the cooldown is up, you're losing production.
Is it just me or does the Chrono boost cooldown actually remove strategic elements from the game? It's obviously a fake. The fact that you could save up chrono boost for certain pushes and updgrades was a great strategic feature the protoss had. Now they pretty much have to be used on workers early, and chrono boosting 1/4 production facilities just screws up macro.
If true, I highly disagree with the decision to not let players save up mules/chrono boosts. How is having a cooldown better? More dynamic strategies are possible without one.
so your telling me it takes longer to copy and paste all the notes rather than take a screenshot to help prove you actually saw this on the b.net forums.... troll
On September 16 2010 21:49 0neder wrote: If true, I highly disagree with the decision to not let players save up mules/chrono boosts. How is having a cooldown better? More dynamic strategies are possible without one.
Then how about we let zerg have more then 1 inject at the same time? Lazy asses...
On September 16 2010 20:57 Tabbris wrote: also does anyone else think that "Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building" is ridiculously op. another sigh that its a fake
No it's not op at all. You'll still have the build cooldown, you'll just save some minerals.
I'm a zerg player and I think this might be OP, there should be some small cost to it, even if you lose 25% of the cost. The issue is I think making and then cancelling will become a high level harassment technique itself, especially late game. I think there should be (and maybe there is) at least a slight cooldown after it's cancelled and this would mostly negate this issue.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Maps - Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed. - Various ladder maps have been added.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds. - Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds. - Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode. - Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. - Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80. - Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas. - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8. - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas. - 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building. - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes - Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows. - Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair. - Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers. - Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates. - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen. - Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General - Improved the functionality of voice chat. - Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands. - Numerous performance and stability improvements.
On September 16 2010 20:57 Tabbris wrote: also does anyone else think that "Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building" is ridiculously op. another sigh that its a fake
No it's not op at all. You'll still have the build cooldown, you'll just save some minerals.
I'm a zerg player and I think this might be OP, there should be some small cost to it, even if you lose 25% of the cost. The issue is I think making and then cancelling will become a high level harassment technique itself, especially late game. I think there should be (and maybe there is) at least a slight cooldown after it's cancelled and this would mostly negate this issue.
You would of course lose the standard 25% that is lost when cancelling a building
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Maps - Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed. - Various ladder maps have been added.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds. - Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds. - Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode. - Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. - Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80. - Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas. - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8. - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas. - 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building. - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes - Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows. - Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair. - Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers. - Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates. - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen. - Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General - Improved the functionality of voice chat. - Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands. - Numerous performance and stability improvements.
Some wording doesn't fit and I don't really see why they would nerf both zealots & chronoboost, so it seems like fake to me, however I wouldn't mind so much those changes anyway
On September 16 2010 21:36 crappen wrote: What I love about this, is the fairness in macro. I really hope chronoboost and mules get a cooldown. People say, we zerg can just build another hatchery to spew more larva. How about you just build another nexus/cc for more?
Overlord creeping on the go will make me want to make hydras, a very good change. PLEASE let the overlord change come.
Fairness in macro? Just make another nexus? You forget that the hatchery produces all units while the nexus only produces probes, costs more, and doesnt provide even close to the same production increase.
CB nets at most 2 units per minute while spawn larva nets 4 units per minute (more than actually, but lets keep it simple) while the hatchery also produces larva for units. Not even close to a valid comparison.
Overlord creeping on the go will be worthless since hydras are faster OFF CREEP than speed upgraded overlords spewing creep on the move. Aside from that, how would creep spewing on the move even work? It takes a while for it to reach its peak.
25 pages. This guy has got to be loving this epic troll. It's especially funny because it happens with every patch.
The macro mechanic "fixes" are too stupid to be true. If they're going to nerf all 3, then they might as well leave them alone. Besides, what the hell are you going to do with a bunch of energy on your Nexus if you miss some Chrono Boosts? At least you have some other options with a Queen or Orbital Command, but it would completely kill the Protoss mechanic.
It's just too good to be true. Blizzard won't patch this heavily, although looking at it from the view of a patch proposal, it puts out a lot of seemingly decent buffs to Zerg (of course I'm referring to the Overlord creep mechanic change). Although you have to take note of all the side effects of stuff like Psionic units bypassing the high ground mechanic. Not sure if I'm a fan of those. However, I'm a big fan of the Mule cooldown and I'm a Terran player. It'll be harder to macro, but they would raise the skill cap of the game a lot. Actually, thinking about it, adding cooldown to the Mule and ChronoBoost wouldn't just make macro harder. They would actually put up some limitations around 1 basing for T and P and opens up a whole new world of strategy when it comes to taking an early expansion. Is this good or bad? You guys decide. I kinda wish we were still in the beta and Blizzard actually implemented some of these for real.
On the whole, the changes seem like really good ones, except just so many at one time. Why are they suddenly changing their minds about the usability of chrono boost/MULEs? It's not at all an unreasonable change and if there's truth to it I commend them, but I don't think they'd introduce all of these changes so suddenly. The macro changes and overlord changes I very much agree with - the changes that had already been announced seem alright, but I wouldn't actually care whether they make it to live.
However, suddenly deciding that psionic units get air vision is a very large change - one that I don't think blizzard would spring on us in the same patch that they overhaul macro mechanic balance. Not necessarily because it would be overpowered (more on that later) but that it's so much at one time.
Now, regarding the balance of psionic air vision, it might not be that bad. For instance at the point where most psionic units are created, such as infestors, ghosts, high templar, you could very reasonably have gotten air units to scout for you (given that you invest in a starport). This is a very interesting change, opening up some new options for them, BUT - as many have commented this change is HUGE when it comes to the sentry - a unit that any protoss build can easily introduce into any mix of units. This gives protoss nearly complete uphill vision at essentially all times. While this is possible at the same/similar point in the game with methods like a hallucination phoenix (which takes an investment, research time, and energy cost) and a floating barracks or factory for terran (takes investment and long flight time, somewhat dependent on if your build completely cuts out a production building) and even an overlord for zerg (similar to a floating barracks early game - slighly slower but can at least be sent at the beginning of the game) so perhaps it isn't so game changing. What really makes this change interesting is that it may have been thought of as a counter-balance to the overlord speed changes. With overlords being twice as fast I can see them now being fast enough that they could be more easily used early game to provide vision up cliffs and ramps. That may be the reason blizzard decided to grant the ability to protoss as well.
So, why not terran? My guess is that since terran early game units are all ranged, while protoss (excepting stalkers) and especially zerg have melee/short range units to make up the bulk of an early army.
man, if these aren't the actual patch changes, blizz should look at this and make them the patch changes. as a zerg, i would love this, because it would make creep play so much more dynamic. plus giving the other races some extra macro challenge is great.
On September 16 2010 22:12 eLiE wrote: man, if these aren't the actual patch changes, blizz should look at this and make them the patch changes. as a zerg, i would love this, because it would make creep play so much more dynamic. plus giving the other races some extra macro challenge is great.
You mean removing any macro challenge for P and most for T, right? Yeah... Just think for a second about what you're proposing.
On September 16 2010 21:43 Yaotzin wrote: Disturbing how many people seem to believe this. Should just close this.
its a very obvious fake because of spelling, grammar and low quality (air vision for sentry lol). pls close
Think it was stated that its a raw translation from Russian, that's why the spelling and grammar sux. But I don't think they are real either...
That's completely made up. As I previously posted the patch notes are in english in the russian site with no russian translation anywhere and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
This patch would fix every issue with ZvT. Giving Overlord a base speed upgrade now removes the mystery of what terran are doing. I'll gladly sack the Overlord now that I nkow I'll get more than 5 feet in the base.
On September 16 2010 21:43 Yaotzin wrote: Disturbing how many people seem to believe this. Should just close this.
its a very obvious fake because of spelling, grammar and low quality (air vision for sentry lol). pls close
Think it was stated that its a raw translation from Russian, that's why the spelling and grammar sux. But I don't think they are real either...
Ok thats an argument but pls... sentry with air vision? carriers with 4 prebuilt interceptors (which they allready have).
its simply not blizzard quality
Yes, giving sentries air vision is a big change - but can you really point at it and claim it's overpowered?
As for carriers - it was stated that that was most likely a mistranslation, and that it meant they now spawn with 4 additional interceptors (8).
When it comes to things like this you can't point at ambiguous stuff like wording either - you simply have to accept that there's no way to tell whether they're true, false, or something in between. For what it's worth though the changes are very drastic (even for most of the beta things were pretty stagnant) and unlikely to be made in a single patch. However, one can always hope.
*edit* can anyone confirm that at no point were these patch notes translated from russian?
On September 16 2010 21:43 Yaotzin wrote: Disturbing how many people seem to believe this. Should just close this.
its a very obvious fake because of spelling, grammar and low quality (air vision for sentry lol). pls close
Think it was stated that its a raw translation from Russian, that's why the spelling and grammar sux. But I don't think they are real either...
That's completely made up. As I previously posted the patch notes are in english in the russian site with no russian translation anywhere and were supposed to originate from the NA forum, which is... an english forum.
My bad than, only underlines the fact it's fake thought
Giving sentries high-ground vision will reap havoc with proxy pylons. Build a pylon so the power field slightly reaches the cliff, get a sentry next to the cliff and then boom, stalkers in ur base.
On September 16 2010 18:14 LilClinkin wrote: I do like the mule change, nothing makes me cringe more than seeing a noobish terran player call-down 10 mules on a gold island expansion.
Why exactly is this noobish behavior? I ALWAYS save up mules if I'm taking a gold expansion; you get a lot more bang for your energy.
Anyone thought about the possibility, that Blizzard posted this patch notes on purpose? Make notes like that and see how people react to these changes. I mean... It's 16.9.
Yeah, this has to be fake. The cooldown on the chronoboost makes no sense. Unlike the other races, there's no alternative for spending energy with toss. If you don't optimally chronoboost, you automatically accumulate energy without a way to spend it.
I can't believe how many posts I read from players who keep saying "Carriers already spawn with 4, this is fake"
What it's obviously trying to say (may have been translated poorly) is that Carriers will spawn with all 8 Interceptors. You will NOT have to train the additional 4 after the Carrier spawns.
Hard to tell... and probably fake =/ However, should this be true (about 10% chance...) it would be awesome =/
Psionic units having air vision is quite cool. Would help Z with defence on LT, would make blink stalkers stronger (and give P an option of a more mobile army).
However, this is most likely fake.. :S. The carrier "buff" makes no sense; there are too many changes at once, and even the excrete creep buff sounds weird (it always seemed to me that OLs can excreete creep only when stopped because it would'nt make sense to use it while they move: they would spread the creep too thin to make any use of it).
On September 16 2010 22:22 m4hleon wrote: I can't believe how many posts I read from players who keep saying "Carriers already spawn with 4, this is fake"
What it's obviously trying to say (may have been translated poorly) is that Carriers will spawn with all 8 Interceptors. You will NOT have to train the additional 4 after the Carrier spawns.
Maybe read this line again? - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt
I think it wont happen like this. CD on chrono and Mule but Zerg can stack lava? Toss was designed to suck without good chrono use. Guess these patch notes are fake.
On September 16 2010 22:22 m4hleon wrote: I can't believe how many posts I read from players who keep saying "Carriers already spawn with 4, this is fake"
What it's obviously trying to say (may have been translated poorly) is that Carriers will spawn with all 8 Interceptors. You will NOT have to train the additional 4 after the Carrier spawns.
Maybe read this line again? - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt
Why even mention it then? Makes no sense. It's meant to say that the four Interceptors that you usually have to build, are now there from the start.
On September 16 2010 22:18 Ota Solgryn wrote: If these are real Blizzard has done an awesome job. Such a good idea to make CD on chrono and MULE.
Blizzard are pretty smart afterall.
It's not a good idea. The point of Chronoboost is that you have to decide what to Chronoboost and may need to save up. With a cooldown a lot of freedom on that decision gets taken away, so decision-making skill decreases. Zerg doesn't have a choice like "I want to spawn more Mutas" or something like that, it's a different design.
To me all the changes are logical. Chrono Boost cooldown will stop one basing as toss as two most powerful one base tactics: 2 gate zealot and 4 gate push do not work as well with new chrono boost. 20s cooldown will probably only restore about 12-13 energy so toss will be able to spend all nexus energy if they remember to use it on time. Spawn Larvae costs 25 energy atm and takes 40s to recharge same as spawn larvae cooldown.
With overlord speed and creep buffs zerg drop play will become more powerful and more often used. Bringing overlords into battle will become useful and then just turn off excrete creep and load units and use increased speed to drop them.
Many Zerg players have said Zerg can stop early harrass if they can scout it on time. So with almost double non-upgraded ovie speed this can be done and Zerg early game can be stronger.
We complained how hydras are too slow and overlord spreading creep will help with that through a method that will reward skill and not just be a boring numbers change or a unit upgrade that will cost 150/150.
On September 16 2010 22:22 m4hleon wrote: I can't believe how many posts I read from players who keep saying "Carriers already spawn with 4, this is fake"
What it's obviously trying to say (may have been translated poorly) is that Carriers will spawn with all 8 Interceptors. You will NOT have to train the additional 4 after the Carrier spawns.
Maybe read this line again? - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt
-facepalm- Yes, thats exactly what he's referring to. He's saying that it might be an error of translation. Derp derp.
These notes are completely fake. A patch like this would change everything about the game. Making overlords base speed twice as fast? Adding 40 second cool down to MULE? All psionic units can see the high ground?
This thread gets so much positive feedback its crazy. Too bad Blizzard wont ever have the balls to make such "big" changes. But we ll see, i cant wait to see the "real patchnotes"
On September 16 2010 22:18 Fa1nT wrote: Why isn't a thread like this deleted?
even if it's fake - if blizz sees the largely positive feedback, they might actually consider some of the changes... who knows?
It would be by far the best patch so far after all....
I think they do a bit of testing to find out good ways to improve balance and gameplay and don t give a tos about a troll and the feedback on some theorycrafting.
A cooldown on chronoboost only makes it harder to chrono warpgates, all the other things stay the same. Also, extra nexi might be worth it now (since the zealot nerf + chrono nerf means P lost its mineral dump)
Note gonna read 28 pages, so sorry if someone already posted this, but these smell fake. For starters, carriers already start with 4 interceptors.
Edit: also moving overlord creep spread would be a bit OP. I'm sure they wouldn't implement something like that without EXTENSIVE testing (i.e. more than a month and a half).
Yeah the response has been really positive. Considering patch notes usually cause MASSIVE crying, even when they're justified (like the roach nerf). These "fake" notes must be the most reasonable ever!
On September 16 2010 22:32 Klive5ive wrote: Yeah the response has been really positive. Considering patch notes usually cause MASSIVE crying, even when they're justified (like the roach nerf). These "fake" notes must be the most reasonable ever!
it is actually quite surprising how positive the feedback has been. Most of the unhappy ones have been people that thought the CB change meant that perfect control was needed to even hold steady on energy.
On September 16 2010 22:32 Klive5ive wrote: Yeah the response has been really positive. Considering patch notes usually cause MASSIVE crying, even when they're justified (like the roach nerf). These "fake" notes must be the most reasonable ever!
it is actually quite surprising how positive the feedback has been. Most of the unhappy ones have been people that thought the CB change meant that perfect control was needed to even hold steady on energy.
This is because people that would give feedback are mostly the ones that want to beleive the changes are real.
If this is true, then this seems like a pretty interesting patch. I don't like the tank change, but I'm ready to give it a try. Bar that change it seems like pretty subtle changes that will be interesting to see how they effect gameplay. (did carriers need a nerf? :/)
Edit: Ugh okay missed the overlord speed change, which would mean it was crazy OP early game.
Would be funny what Terrans now do with Ghosts. Well..will do if this ever happens to be real. Ghost is also bio so no idea if that change affects him.
Adresses many of the Zerg problems: - lack of scouting => ovie speed - hydra slowness => ovie creep highway - early game pressure => nerf to MULE and Chrono as well as nerf to reapers and zealots. - rarely used nydus => cancel available.
Dunno about the Ultralisk nerf. Yes they are very strong, but being pretty slow and melee range makes them very abusable. Guess we shall see...
Hmm interesting. I think the zerg changes are a little strong. Don't get me wrong, I think zerg definitely needs some love but the overlord change is crazy. Means a lot of free scouting and the nydus change is pretty crazy aswell
On September 16 2010 22:43 okrane wrote: Really awesome changes right there.
Adresses many of the Zerg problems: - lack of scouting => ovie speed - hydra slowness => ovie creep highway - early game pressure => nerf to MULE and Chrono as well as nerf to reapers and zealots. - rarely used nydus => cancel available.
Dunno about the Ultralisk nerf. Yes they are very strong, but being pretty slow and melee range makes them very abusable. Guess we shall see...
On September 16 2010 22:43 okrane wrote: Really awesome changes right there.
Adresses many of the Zerg problems: - lack of scouting => ovie speed - hydra slowness => ovie creep highway - early game pressure => nerf to MULE and Chrono as well as nerf to reapers and zealots. - rarely used nydus => cancel available.
Dunno about the Ultralisk nerf. Yes they are very strong, but being pretty slow and melee range makes them very abusable. Guess we shall see...
These notes are not real and will not be implemented.
Hypothetically, if the changes actually did warrant discussion:
Creating a cooldown for CB and MULE is not an idea I agree with. All it does is limit options. The only purpose I see is to force players to mechanically use the ability every time it's off cooldown, like clockwork. That's pointless though, since when players choose to use the ability at all times possible, doing so is trivially easy.
The Overlord changes seem rather drastic. They basically ensure uncontested scouting of any region lacking enemy air-to-air, and almost unstoppable connectivity between bases. I like how Overlord scouting and creep spreading work as some of Zerg's key strengths at the moment, but I'm unsure if they should be strengthened. At the very least, I prefer Creep Tumors to ubiquitous Overlord creep spreading, since tying this passive ground control to buildings allows it to be contested.
On September 16 2010 22:32 Klive5ive wrote: Yeah the response has been really positive. Considering patch notes usually cause MASSIVE crying, even when they're justified (like the roach nerf). These "fake" notes must be the most reasonable ever!
Everyone knows they're fake, so there's nothing to complain about.
On September 16 2010 22:51 EchOne wrote: These notes are not real and will not be implemented.
Hypothetically, if the changes actually did warrant discussion:
Creating a cooldown for CB and MULE is not an idea I agree with. All it does is limit options. The only purpose I see is to force players to mechanically use the ability every time it's off cooldown, like clockwork. That's pointless though, since when players choose to use the ability at all times possible, doing so is trivially easy.
The Overlord changes seem rather drastic. They basically ensure uncontested scouting of any region lacking enemy air-to-air, and almost unstoppable connectivity between bases. I like how Overlord scouting and creep spreading work as some of Zerg's key strengths at the moment, but I'm unsure if they should be strengthened. At the very least, I prefer Creep Tumors to ubiquitous Overlord creep spreading, since tying this passive ground control to buildings allows it to be contested.
Overlord scouting and and creep spread are NOT key strengths to Zerg, if anything they hamper us. Early game for a walled off terran we basically have to throw away a 100 mineral overlord which is too slow to even scout half of the base before a few marines kill it off.
And also, blizzard apparently uses creep as an excuse to make Zerg units (especially Hydras) extremely slow and immobile.
On September 16 2010 18:10 bleen wrote: Warning this was leaked on US forums after 20min blue post deleted thread this means it must be legit and it means US blue post are more active than EU am i surpised? no this just means this thread will stay alive longer
Maps - Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed. - Various ladder maps have been added.
General - Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds. - Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds. - Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode. - Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds. - Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80. - Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas. - Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas. - Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran - Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8. - Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds. - Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds. - 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas. - 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg - Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. - Ultralisk Ram attack removed. - Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building. - Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938. - Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344. - Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving. - Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active. - Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active. - Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes - Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows. - Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs. - Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair. - Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers. - Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates. - Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen. - Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General - Improved the functionality of voice chat. - Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands. - Numerous performance and stability improvements.
On September 16 2010 18:15 Mato wrote: Assuming these are real...
- Various ladder maps have been added.
Fantastic.
- Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds.
As a T, more than welcome. 40s i assume is to bring it in line with Spawn larva - that is you miss one, you can't that lost time up. Makes the macro mechanic much less forgiving and makes good t's standout. Subtle nerf but necessary.
I've found that later down the road, the extra housing is much more worth it (for various micro reasons and the fact that the income will run out anyway, etc.)
Creating a cooldown for CB and MULE is not an idea I agree with. All it does is limit options. The only purpose I see is to force players to mechanically use the ability every time it's off cooldown, like clockwork. That's pointless though, since when players choose to use the ability at all times possible, doing so is trivially easy.
Right because the terran is always thinking about "Oh do I need 300 Minerals or a Scan"... There is no tension between the 3 abilities at all, when Terran already can outmine P and Z at will. But man its funny how all the Terrans get afraid, when reading this. "Oh my god, now it might requiere skill to makro"
On September 16 2010 22:51 EchOne wrote: These notes are not real and will not be implemented.
Hypothetically, if the changes actually did warrant discussion:
Creating a cooldown for CB and MULE is not an idea I agree with. All it does is limit options. The only purpose I see is to force players to mechanically use the ability every time it's off cooldown, like clockwork. That's pointless though, since when players choose to use the ability at all times possible, doing so is trivially easy.
If what you say is true, the change we can expect would be that inject larva's can stack! I rather see a nerve to the mule instead. I don't really care about the CB to be honest, I think it can stay the way it is.
On September 16 2010 22:43 okrane wrote: Really awesome changes right there.
Adresses many of the Zerg problems: - lack of scouting => ovie speed - hydra slowness => ovie creep highway - early game pressure => nerf to MULE and Chrono as well as nerf to reapers and zealots. - rarely used nydus => cancel available.
Dunno about the Ultralisk nerf. Yes they are very strong, but being pretty slow and melee range makes them very abusable. Guess we shall see...
The Ultralisk Attack "nerf" is a buff in my opinion. AoE vs Terran Repairing Buildings is pretty nice :>
Dunno about the chronoboost nerf. Might be a bit too long, because they have no other options to spend energy on. is the "recharge rate" for 1 chronoboost excactly 40 seconds? Else 20 seconds might be okay too.
Overall pretty nice changes, but i will wait until the patch goes live, before i get my hopes up.
The mule/cb and overloard base speed changes are so big that they would have commented on this things in the situation report before posting them into a patch.
Not commenting on such a big change in macro mechanics and boosting zerg scouting ability that much without a single comment in the situation report just makes this seem fake.
If it's true then blizzard situation report was nothing but a lame attempt in commenting on balance changes. How can they not mention such big changes to zerg scouting and terran/protoss macro mechanics but instead talking about Ultralisk nerf. LOL.
This is obviously wrong, carriers have come with 4 built interceptors since release at least. Psionic units seeing up cliffs sounds like a very stupid change, it's already incredibly easy to see up cliffs.
Couple really untrustworthy ones there, such as larvainject 25->20. They don't go this overboard with changes ever imo, also it seems pretty unfair nerf for toss that they could never use their saved up energy while z/t could use their 2/3rd skills like before. Seems like normal fakenotes, put upon already known upcoming notes to look more legit.
Some of the changes would've been cool tho. All relating to OL speed specially would be really nice to have, thus OL sac could finally actually work as somewhat good tier1 scout.
On September 16 2010 22:59 Weasel- wrote: This is obviously wrong, carriers have come with 4 built interceptors since release at least. Psionuc units seeing up cliffs sounds like a very stupid change, it's already incredibly easy to see up cliffs.
Especially when you are a Zerg against a terran who tanks drops on LT right?
Having a queen being able to see up cliffs would fix SO MUCH on a lot of the maps that terran can easily abuse
Amazing if true. The only change I don't like is the Chronoboost one. I think saving chronoboost to use for a time where you need a lot of units quick is a good strategy and adds more skill to how you use it. Especially since chronoboost is the only option for the energy on the nexus, this would mean there is no way to use that energy if you miss a chronoboost.
Because of that, I don't think these notes are legit. Although as a zerg player I would love that overlord change oh so much.
What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
A few dubious "changes" for sure, but I can hope right? I'd love to play the swarm more often.
I re-read the carrier change a few times, had to really think if I was going crazy or not. They definitely always came with 4 pre-built. Also, increasing the cost wouldn't make a lot of sense, they are already really slow to come out, and if CB was nerfed they'd be slower. Not to mention they are rarely seen.
On September 16 2010 22:59 Weasel- wrote: This is obviously wrong, carriers have come with 4 built interceptors since release at least. Psionuc units seeing up cliffs sounds like a very stupid change, it's already incredibly easy to see up cliffs.
Especially when you are a Zerg against a terran who tanks drops on LT right?
Having a queen being able to see up cliffs would fix SO MUCH on a lot of the maps that terran can easily abuse
That has never been the problem with drops. Placing an overlord close to the cliff would be the same "fix" as this one and guess what... ovie sight doesn't magically "fix" drops.
On September 16 2010 23:03 Ghazwan wrote: What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
On September 16 2010 22:51 EchOne wrote: These notes are not real and will not be implemented.
Hypothetically, if the changes actually did warrant discussion:
Creating a cooldown for CB and MULE is not an idea I agree with. All it does is limit options. The only purpose I see is to force players to mechanically use the ability every time it's off cooldown, like clockwork. That's pointless though, since when players choose to use the ability at all times possible, doing so is trivially easy.
But, is that not exactly how the zerg mechanic works? While you should never compare apples and oranges I do think it's unreasonable to claim terrans should not be subjected to having to pay attention to their macro (which is still considerably more lenient than zerg, I might add). As for protoss, this would negatively affect one base gateway play - I don't think it would be unreasonable to slightly increase the effect of a chrono boost, since you wouldn't be able to spam it on all gateways for a sudden surge of production.
The Overlord changes seem rather drastic. They basically ensure uncontested scouting of any region lacking enemy air-to-air, and almost unstoppable connectivity between bases. I like how Overlord scouting and creep spreading work as some of Zerg's key strengths at the moment, but I'm unsure if they should be strengthened. At the very least, I prefer Creep Tumors to ubiquitous Overlord creep spreading, since tying this passive ground control to buildings allows it to be contested.
I'm undecided on this. I do think zerg needs scouting options early-ish game, but this is a big change. However, spreading overlords does always open you up to some extreme harassment from an opponent with a mobile anti-air force. The only way you'll get good coverage of the map is by spreading them evenly everywhere, which is a huge risk. It could mean that phoenix heavy builds would become popular to punish this - or that a small force of 3-4 phoenixes/vikings could be built alongside your normal composition to stab at scouting overlords and retreat before you are intercepted.
On September 16 2010 23:03 Ghazwan wrote: What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
that's exactly the point.
And, that's a huge change, how? Most Zs, in late game, already have plenty of mana on their queens. This will only maybe allow 1-2 creep tumors more, or one extra transfusion early on. Compared to the other changes in these 'patch notes', I don't think this change is as 'game-breaking'.
I actually really really like the MULE/Chronoboost changes. I like them a lot. Assuming these are real(which, admittedly, is a pretty bold assumption), I'm SO glad Blizzard decided to make those 2 harder, instead of spawn larvae easier. Although now I think Nexus might need an alternative energy dump like tumor/transfusion/supplydrop/scan for when you get behind.
Especially when you are a Zerg against a terran who tanks drops on LT right?
Having a queen being able to see up cliffs would fix SO MUCH on a lot of the maps that terran can easily abuse
As much as I appreciate Zerg love, but this is dumb... Overlords still provide good vision on cliffs, thats not the problem, the problem is that we dont have any early range units
On September 16 2010 23:03 Ghazwan wrote: What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
that's exactly the point.
And, that's a huge change, how? Most Zs, in late game, already have plenty of mana on their queens. This will only maybe allow 1-2 creep tumors more, or one extra transfusion early on. Compared to the other changes in these 'patch notes', I don't think this change is as 'game-breaking'.
well it does mean a few things - if you're already creep tumoring using your first or second cast it means that the second one will be 5-6 seconds sooner, which is just a nice change. This also means that you'll get a free tumor every 5 casts of inject larvae - and more creep tumors with fewer queens is a very nice change.
It's small, so nothing gamechanging, just slightly easier to handle
The cooldown on the mule would really be a good change if it were true. It's been an idea of mine and it makes too much sence for it not to happen at some point, OC becomes very similar to the queen that way, although the queen is still more fragile :p.
The cooldown on the nexus I'm not so fond of. It's not the kind of ability that you just want to throw out every time you have the energy for it. And imagine how long that first zealot is going to take to build.
On September 16 2010 23:03 Ghazwan wrote: What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
that's exactly the point.
And, that's a huge change, how? Most Zs, in late game, already have plenty of mana on their queens. This will only maybe allow 1-2 creep tumors more, or one extra transfusion early on. Compared to the other changes in these 'patch notes', I don't think this change is as 'game-breaking'.
First of all, noone said it's a HUGE change.
Secondly, good Zerg-players don't have plenty of Energy (not mana - this isn't WC3 or WoW) on their queens, that's the point of good macro; not missing injects and therefore not having any spare energy.
Lastly, having an additional or earlier creep-tumor EARLY in the game actually makes quite a difference...
this seems just awesome :D (i'm a zerg player) but i guess if they really are real, we have to play first before we really can judge some of the changes !
On September 16 2010 23:03 Ghazwan wrote: What am I missing about larvae inject mana reduction being so big? The ability still has a cooldown. So, all it will do will be to give more mana for creep tumor and transfusion.
that's exactly the point.
And, that's a huge change, how? Most Zs, in late game, already have plenty of mana on their queens. This will only maybe allow 1-2 creep tumors more, or one extra transfusion early on. Compared to the other changes in these 'patch notes', I don't think this change is as 'game-breaking'.
First of all, noone said it's a HUGE change.
Secondly, good Zerg-players don't have plenty of Energy (not mana - this isn't WC3 or WoW) on their queens, that's the point of good macro; not missing injects and therefore not having any spare energy.
Lastly, having an additional or earlier creep-tumor EARLY in the game actually makes quite a difference...
1- No one said, it's a huge change. But, a lot of people list the change along with cd on MULEs and chrono boost, as if the larve inject change is as important. And, I don't think it is.
2- That top Z players being perfect about larvae inject is a huge illusion. They are not. Just go watch any top Z players' games. They all have enuf for a creep tumor or a transfusion.
3- Yes, it's a nice welcome change, but it won't alter any match-up significantly.
Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
the spawn larvae energy change is actually pretty good. it rewards good players with additional creep tumors + additional units instead of choosing between the 2 (bad players will have plenty creep tumors anyways, but a lot less drones and units)
it actually makes the spawn larvae mechanic something that gets you somewhere if you're really good apm and strategy wise (strategy = using creep tumors good), unlike earlier where it was basically nothing but a punishment for bad players.
On September 16 2010 23:19 Unentschieden wrote: Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
On September 16 2010 23:19 Unentschieden wrote: Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
honestly, outside of the officially announced changes, the only ones I'd really like to see are faster Overlords (not "creep on the move", just faster, to improve Zerg scouting) and cooldowns on Mule and Chronoboost (to bring them in line with spawn larva)
On September 16 2010 23:19 Unentschieden wrote: Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
1. Boys. Whatever. 2. Wow ok. I admit that hadn't occurred to me yet. Yes, that would seem to be pretty exploitable.
On September 16 2010 23:19 Unentschieden wrote: Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
Is this a joke? The fix is a marine or stalker.
MAYBE, if they didn´t gain double speed. Also sacking several overlords to deny building is A LOT more valid than sacking OLs for scouting.
On September 16 2010 23:19 Unentschieden wrote: Overlords used to have "creep on the move" but it was removed : 1. Because Players used it to "draw" phalluses over the enemys base 2. It makes it too easy to drop creep in the enemys base which can deny building - which is HUGE
Is this a joke? The fix is a marine or stalker.
MAYBE, if they didn´t gain double speed. Also sacking several overlords to deny building is A LOT more valid than sacking OLs for scouting.
It still comes on T2. Creeping overlords get only half the speed (thats like it is atm). A few Marines/Stalker completly nullify it.
Your whining over a theoretical change is extremly baseless.
It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
That means all terran = bio ! ...
This crappy fake
You do realize Blizzard has already announced the Siege tank nerf right? Plus Siege tanks do like 200+ damage per shot currently due to splash
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: 35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
This would be an issue if Terrans rolled around the map with a single tank and sieged it up, but that's not the reality. Chances are your going to have a large number of tanks, or bio with tanks mixed in.
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
That means all terran = bio ! ...
This crappy fake
except this is one the few things blizzard officialy comfirmed..
@Tomtaietot You got no Idea what ure talking about lol. Its still 50 dmg vs armored. Its still a oneshot on Zerglings with no armor, and for ever after your first upgrade. SC1 tank dealt 70dmg with a smaller splashefficiency (due to blobbing units) and only HALF of the dmg to light units (do the math) Zerglings were MUCH stronger in SC2.
IF ure tanks are alone against the lings its your fault, my enemies have always a bioball next to it... Oh and btw yes Lings maybe costeffective against Tanks...where is the problem? Marauders are Costeffective against EVERY Groundunit...
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
That means all terran = bio ! ...
This crappy fake
except this is one the few things blizzard officialy comfirmed..
..or am I being romanian'd?
no, you are correct. he is just mad that his tanks are no longer OP
Got my bets on these being real. Despite some of the changes being pretty blatant and looking like Blizz giving in to whine and whatever, there are also some nice subtleties worked in.
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
That means all terran = bio ! ...
This crappy fake
except this is one the few things blizzard officialy comfirmed..
..or am I being romanian'd?
no, you are correct. he is just mad that his tanks are no longer OP
On September 16 2010 23:31 Tomtaietot wrote: It can t be like this because it willl really imbalance the game.
I am a terran player and fewer and fewer high lever t player use mech tanks - in high level - so now - they will become really useless. 35 dmg ) lol ... the SC1 tank - UNSIEGED had 30 dmg - and it had costed at almost half ....
35 DMG - on a unit with NO MOBILITY ! Be serious - 3 lings > 1 tank ..... a unit thas is sooo heavy economical 150 minerals + 125 gas = 35 dmg ... ARE U FUCKING JOKING ME ?!
That means all terran = bio ! ...
This crappy fake
except this is one the few things blizzard officialy comfirmed..
..or am I being romanian'd?
no, you are correct. he is just mad that his tanks are no longer OP
On September 16 2010 23:39 PsionicOtter wrote: Got my bets on these being real. Despite some of the changes being pretty blatant and looking like Blizz giving in to whine and whatever, there are also some nice subtleties worked in.
You really think psionic seeing air is a realistic, Blizzard change? Puh-leeze. That's crazy.
If this patch is real, I will be playing either Toss or Zerg.
Been holding off the choice for some time, so I randomed myself through ladder. But the thing is I cannot phantom Blizzard nerfing units at the same time as the macro mechanic. Which is a HUGE change.
Also the differences between the races were so small before, that with these changes the balance will shift way to much.
If this patch is indeed real, we will see Zerg winning much more tournaments then before, Idra becoming the new Western Jaedong, and a patch in 2 months that reverts some nerfs to Terran again.
On September 16 2010 23:41 Fluxx wrote: If this patch is real, I will be playing either Toss or Zerg.
Been holding off the choice for some time, so I randomed myself through ladder. But the thing is I cannot phantom Blizzard nerfing units at the same time as the macro mechanic. Which is a HUGE change.
Also the differences between the races were so small before, that with these changes the balance will shift way to much.
If this patch is indeed real, we will see Zerg winning much more tournaments then before, Idra becoming the new European Jaedong, and a patch in 2 months that reverts some nerfs to Terran again.
- Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds. - Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds. - Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored. - Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. - Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8.
Are you talking about those? They have all been confirmed as legit a long time ago.
On September 16 2010 23:41 Fluxx wrote: If this patch is real, I will be playing either Toss or Zerg.
Been holding off the choice for some time, so I randomed myself through ladder. But the thing is I cannot phantom Blizzard nerfing units at the same time as the macro mechanic. Which is a HUGE change.
Also the differences between the races were so small before, that with these changes the balance will shift way to much.
If this patch is indeed real, we will see Zerg winning much more tournaments then before, Idra becoming the new Western Jaedong, and a patch in 2 months that reverts some nerfs to Terran again.
If you play Zerg you will drop alot in ranks remember that. You will suddenly have to actually be good to win games
I dont think that the changes are so super drastic btw. But i love the Terran tears in this thread
On September 16 2010 23:41 Fluxx wrote: If this patch is real, I will be playing either Toss or Zerg.
Been holding off the choice for some time, so I randomed myself through ladder. But the thing is I cannot phantom Blizzard nerfing units at the same time as the macro mechanic. Which is a HUGE change.
Also the differences between the races were so small before, that with these changes the balance will shift way to much.
If this patch is indeed real, we will see Zerg winning much more tournaments then before, Idra becoming the new Western Jaedong, and a patch in 2 months that reverts some nerfs to Terran again.
Are you kidding me? Terranz are still gonna roflstomp zerg/toss even with the changes man.
A 20sec Chronoboost cooldown cannot be implemented on the Nexus.
Chronoing is all that a Nexus can do, whereas Qeens can heal/creep and OCs can supply/scan with leftover energy.
Pooling Nexus energy to Chrono later is a very common strategy. Also, this change alone would KILL 2gates builds, as if the Zealot cooldown nerf wasn't enough.
chrono boost cooldown leads me to believe these are fake. Why? Because nexus has no other energy dump. The mule/spawn larva cooldowns make sense because you can dump energy on scan/creep tumor as well. Adding a cooldown to Chronoboost would mean that eventually with 1-2 second late chronos, you would be stuck at 100 energy.
EPT
. Their bullshit will be less abusive now.
It nerfs them..
