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On September 14 2010 23:10 Macabre wrote:
This thread is making me lean more and more towards a forum style like arenajunkies had. Certain forums only allowed people that were Gladiator or better to post in(WoW).. stops a lot of useless bantering. Also allows better discussion on subjects like this, between people who can actually comment on it.
Then you'd be promoting appeal to authority fallacy. An argument can be good or bad no matter the source. The thing is even a lot of pro players don't bother to really know the game like some worse players do. I've seen countless "pro players" stacking storms ones on top of anothers, couldn't even bother to play a bit alone and test this kind of things? Are they just so focused on massing games they forgot to use their heads? Many times lots of practice wins better knowledge, and why some good players aren't actually that good. They're just efficient at the bad things they do. Or people in GSL still using extractor trick when it's been proven that it's worse? And so on. Even if on average worse players input can be worse, sometimes good arguments, ideas and strategies come along.
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On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win
and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess
im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1.
idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it )
i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg.
i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about)
yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced.
but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced and thats also why i dont think they should blame the balance
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On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced
The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving.
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On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win
Agreed, as I said before - I wish people wouldn't turn balance discussion into "he didn't deserve to win that" I don't think alot of people are complaining out of spite, they just want to feel like the match ups are fair and they have a chance to show people their abilities.
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Good point there MorroW, but there are ppl in here acutally arguing that Terran isnt imbalanced in any way atm. And i think its those ppl everyone is raging on.
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On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving.
whats your point?
my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs
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im 1400 diamond terran and my hardest MU is TvZ.
I dont 5 rax reaper however i will point out that vs a muta/bane/ling zerg if i dont do alot of damage with my hellion opening into expansion or w/e harass i decide to use. I pretty much guarantee a loss.
Once you open up with that expansion it becomes impossible to do any sort of timing attack vs zerg until 200 food and 3 base. in my practice games vs Good zergs they spread overlords everywhere. and vikings are quite useless once mutas come out. SO dropships become nearly impossible to do. Any push before 200 is impossible to do unless i was gonna 8 rax or something redic.
there is no feasable way to open up with an expansion vs zerg and win in a macro game. Because you cannot attack them at anypoint once they get mutas before an army of 160-200.
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On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here".
I agree MorroW. Sadly the latter seems to come up more then the mistake part. I've seen a lot of wins due to IMBA rather then a huge mistake.
F.e.+ Show Spoiler +Demuslim vs Brat_Ok in Homestory cup. 4 scvs and making a come back for the win. this just isn't possible with any other race.
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On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:
and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess
I really dont think the patch will change much... :/
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On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced and thats also why i dont think they should blame the balance
wow you sound like a christian
*prays there arent many religious/christian mods*
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On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs
I think the point is that it's frustrating knowing that if in a match both the Zerg and Terran make the same amount of mistakes, the Terran would win. It's not saying "oh Terran imba, I always lose". Just playing the game a lot and losing, then watching a replay, then seeing that you and the Terran made the same amount of mistakes yet you, as Zerg, end up losing most of the time takes it's toll on people. Believe me, it's very very VERY frustrating even when you do learn something from the match.
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On September 14 2010 23:39 powar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs I think the point is that it's frustrating knowing that if in a match both the Zerg and Terran make the same amount of mistakes, the Terran would win. It's not saying "oh Terran imba, I always lose". Just playing the game a lot and losing, then watching a replay, then seeing that you and the Terran made the same amount of mistakes yet you, as Zerg, end up losing most of the time takes it's toll on people. Believe me, it's very very VERY frustrating even when you do learn something from the match.
sc1 was the exact same way, zerg was so unforgiving race compared to terran, doesnt mean its imbalanced. on top of it i dont talk about balance i talk about mind set and attitude of a player and thats why i dont think its relevant to quote me and write that, just shows that he misunderstood what i said (understandable because my english can be terrible sometimes)
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Hey Morrow, I heard you like to EMP banelings in the finals of major tournaments?
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On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs
My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving.
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On September 14 2010 23:34 FindingPride wrote:
im 1400 diamond terran and my hardest MU is TvZ.
I dont 5 rax reaper however i will point out that vs a muta/bane/ling zerg if i dont do alot of damage with my hellion opening into expansion or w/e harass i decide to use. I pretty much guarantee a loss.
Once you open up with that expansion it becomes impossible to do any sort of timing attack vs zerg until 200 food and 3 base. in my practice games vs Good zergs they spread overlords everywhere. and vikings are quite useless once mutas come out. SO dropships become nearly impossible to do. Any push before 200 is impossible to do unless i was gonna 8 rax or something redic.
there is no feasable way to open up with an expansion vs zerg and win in a macro game. Because you cannot attack them at anypoint once they get mutas before an army of 160-200.
When I play ZvT, sometimes I get to a point of game where T attemted to harrass and didn't do enough damage, then I get full map control with bling/ling/muta. T cannot do anything at this point. Just watch when terran is moving out and hit before tanks are sieged.
But if terran builds a couple of thors that messes everything up. After we engage in a fight terran is left only with thors which are repaired quickly. Thats gg for zerg. Coz nothing in zergs army can kill thors in small numbers.
So my advice: build thors, they are good.
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On September 14 2010 23:51 boprandem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:34 FindingPride wrote:
im 1400 diamond terran and my hardest MU is TvZ.
I dont 5 rax reaper however i will point out that vs a muta/bane/ling zerg if i dont do alot of damage with my hellion opening into expansion or w/e harass i decide to use. I pretty much guarantee a loss.
Once you open up with that expansion it becomes impossible to do any sort of timing attack vs zerg until 200 food and 3 base. in my practice games vs Good zergs they spread overlords everywhere. and vikings are quite useless once mutas come out. SO dropships become nearly impossible to do. Any push before 200 is impossible to do unless i was gonna 8 rax or something redic.
there is no feasable way to open up with an expansion vs zerg and win in a macro game. Because you cannot attack them at anypoint once they get mutas before an army of 160-200. When I play ZvT, sometimes I get to a point of game where T attemted to harrass and didn't do enough damage, then I get full map control with bling/ling/muta. T cannot do anything at this point. Just watch when terran is moving out and hit before tanks are sieged. But if terran builds a couple of thors that messes everything up. After we engage in a fight terran is left only with thors which are repaired quickly. Thats gg for zerg. Coz nothing in zergs army can kill thors in small numbers. So my advice: build thors, they are good.
you dont magic box?(Mutas) even then lings should work perfectly. Also players who creep spread good are my worst nightmare =/
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On September 14 2010 23:41 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:39 powar wrote:On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs I think the point is that it's frustrating knowing that if in a match both the Zerg and Terran make the same amount of mistakes, the Terran would win. It's not saying "oh Terran imba, I always lose". Just playing the game a lot and losing, then watching a replay, then seeing that you and the Terran made the same amount of mistakes yet you, as Zerg, end up losing most of the time takes it's toll on people. Believe me, it's very very VERY frustrating even when you do learn something from the match. sc1 was the exact same way, zerg was so unforgiving race compared to terran, doesnt mean its imbalanced. on top of it i dont talk about balance i talk about mind set and attitude of a player and thats why i dont think its relevant to quote me and write that, just shows that he misunderstood what i said (understandable because my english can be terrible sometimes)
there you have it guys. terran is NOT imba!
User was warned for this post
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving.
yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier.
and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo
played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race
i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten
On September 14 2010 23:55 cromat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:41 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:39 powar wrote:On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs I think the point is that it's frustrating knowing that if in a match both the Zerg and Terran make the same amount of mistakes, the Terran would win. It's not saying "oh Terran imba, I always lose". Just playing the game a lot and losing, then watching a replay, then seeing that you and the Terran made the same amount of mistakes yet you, as Zerg, end up losing most of the time takes it's toll on people. Believe me, it's very very VERY frustrating even when you do learn something from the match. sc1 was the exact same way, zerg was so unforgiving race compared to terran, doesnt mean its imbalanced. on top of it i dont talk about balance i talk about mind set and attitude of a player and thats why i dont think its relevant to quote me and write that, just shows that he misunderstood what i said (understandable because my english can be terrible sometimes) there you have it guys. terran is NOT imba!
perfect example of a guy i wish got banned. and from my point of view majority of the ppl i talk to think like this
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On September 14 2010 23:41 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:39 powar wrote:On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs I think the point is that it's frustrating knowing that if in a match both the Zerg and Terran make the same amount of mistakes, the Terran would win. It's not saying "oh Terran imba, I always lose". Just playing the game a lot and losing, then watching a replay, then seeing that you and the Terran made the same amount of mistakes yet you, as Zerg, end up losing most of the time takes it's toll on people. Believe me, it's very very VERY frustrating even when you do learn something from the match. sc1 was the exact same way, zerg was so unforgiving race compared to terran, doesnt mean its imbalanced. on top of it i dont talk about balance i talk about mind set and attitude of a player and thats why i dont think its relevant to quote me and write that, just shows that he misunderstood what i said (understandable because my english can be terrible sometimes)
I like your attitude and honesty. Its so sad that your efforts are not appreciated due to so-called 'Terran OP'. But nevertheless keep on working and I hope people like you, IdrA or Dimaga will help to make SC2 balanced.
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