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On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten
Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has.
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On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has.
you're not gonna have this discussion are you? O;\
all your hatches instantly become a barracks, as well as starport, as well as a factory and a command center the instant you build the tech.
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I find Terran to be quite a bit forgiving, compared to Zerg.
There's your Wall In, in case you make a small mistake, just run back and mass up a bit while you wall gets damaged by the roaches/lings.
If Zerg messes up and for some reason gets its Zerglings in a perfect position for Hellions to roast them, well, the Zerg loses everything and gets said back very far...
Then, there's the MULEs. I agree with you that currently, the game is to young for MULEs to have such a big timing importance, but at this moment, missing you MULE is not a problem at all. So is losing 10 SCVs to a baneling drop way less worse than 10 drones, you just use your mule, which gives money for 5-6 f*cking SCVs!!!
Zerg needs to get Drones, which might build a little faster with the Larva mechanic, but they don't get the minerals they need soon enough for it to be important. Next to that, MULEs stack, Larva Inject doesn't.
Next up, the easilly available Tech Switch. Going for something, but you notice your opponent goes heavy on Roaches? Damn, lets just get these 2 raxesbuilding Marauders instead of Marines... How much time does it cost? 25 secs if you build a new, super cheap tech path?
If the Zerg goes for Banelings because he saw the barracks building a Reactor, but than it gets swapped and transitions into Marauder Hellion, well, guess you're fucked, building your Lair and Spire will take enough time for the enemy to produce 15 Marauders and 10 Hellions, slaughtering everything you had.
Lets not talk about Scouting. You are totally in the dark about what your opponent is doing?? Guess building a Barracks for some pretty much guaranteed scouting is quite an investment...
Zerg needs to suicide 100 Minerals for uncertain scouting, as the buildings fly around and switch tech, the Overlords might miss some things, and they certainly die. It costs 150/100 for a higher chance of good scouting, or 100/100 to get an upgrade making scouting useable.
Antiscouting? Terran Walls deny any form of scouting on the ground, missile turrets and Marines will keep the air clean. Once the Vikings come out, Zerg needs to either get Mass Muta, or just give up on map control and take all their overlords back home.
Zerg lacks any Anti Air units early on, so the Early barracks guarantees scouting in the early- mid game. Queens just don't do it and Hydralisks get countered extraordinarilly hard by Tanks, and pretty decently by Hellions.
Let's forget the Creep mechanic, it sucks.
On September 15 2010 00:10 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. you're not gonna have this discussion are you? O;\ all your hatches instantly become a barracks, as well as starport, as well as a factory and a command center the instant you build the tech.
The instant you build the tech... The instant .... You ment the 2 minutes for going up a tier and than getting the building? By the way, Terran has a hardcounter for every Zerg unit. An extremely Hard Counter, which all become available with these easy techswitches.
I hope some Terran actually takes the time to read this and post an appopriate reply, instead of doing "haha QQ noobnobb !!" and just not arguing.
Kind Regards,
Toastie
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On September 15 2010 00:10 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. you're not gonna have this discussion are you? O;\ all your hatches instantly become a barracks, as well as starport, as well as a factory and a command center the instant you build the tech.
Where you have to perfectly balance the drone production against the army producation. A small error there and your screwed. Late game your point gets valid, but anytime before that it feels more like a handicap than anything else.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has.
i was talking about which race is harder to play and i was saying macroing with the queen mechanic is harder than the orbital command mechanic, but in general i think all 3 races are about as hard to play (should call it as easy if u compare to sc1)
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I wonder if some things would balance out if they made the energy cap on OC's 100 instead of 200.
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On September 15 2010 00:14 ToastieNL wrote:I find Terran to be quite a bit forgiving, compared to Zerg. There's your Wall In, in case you make a small mistake, just run back and mass up a bit while you wall gets damaged by the roaches/lings. If Zerg messes up and for some reason gets its Zerglings in a perfect position for Hellions to roast them, well, the Zerg loses everything and gets said back very far... Then, there's the MULEs. I agree with you that currently, the game is to young for MULEs to have such a big timing importance, but at this moment, missing you MULE is not a problem at all. So is losing 10 SCVs to a baneling drop way less worse than 10 drones, you just use your mule, which gives money for 5-6 f*cking SCVs!!! Zerg needs to get Drones, which might build a little faster with the Larva mechanic, but they don't get the minerals they need soon enough for it to be important. Next to that, MULEs stack, Larva Inject doesn't. + Show Spoiler +Next up, the easilly available Tech Switch. Going for something, but you notice your opponent goes heavy on Roaches? Damn, lets just get these 2 raxesbuilding Marauders instead of Marines... How much time does it cost? 25 secs if you build a new, super cheap tech path? If the Zerg goes for Banelings because he saw the barracks building a Reactor, but than it gets swapped and transitions into Marauder Hellion, well, guess you're fucked, building your Lair and Spire will take enough time for the enemy to produce 15 Marauders and 10 Hellions, slaughtering everything you had. Lets not talk about Scouting. You are totally in the dark about what your opponent is doing?? Guess building a Barracks for some pretty much guaranteed scouting is quite an investment... Zerg needs to suicide 100 Minerals for uncertain scouting, as the buildings fly around and switch tech, the Overlords might miss some things, and they certainly die. It costs 150/100 for a higher chance of good scouting, or 100/100 to get an upgrade making scouting useable. Antiscouting? Terran Walls deny any form of scouting on the ground, missile turrets and Marines will keep the air clean. Once the Vikings come out, Zerg needs to either get Mass Muta, or just give up on map control and take all their overlords back home. Zerg lacks any Anti Air units early on, so the Early barracks guarantees scouting in the early- mid game. Queens just don't do it and Hydralisks get countered extraordinarilly hard by Tanks, and pretty decently by Hellions. Let's forget the Creep mechanic, it sucks. On September 15 2010 00:10 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. you're not gonna have this discussion are you? O;\ all your hatches instantly become a barracks, as well as starport, as well as a factory and a command center the instant you build the tech. The instant you build the tech... The instant .... You ment the 2 minutes for going up a tier and than getting the building? By the way, Terran has a hardcounter for every Zerg unit. An extremely Hard Counter, which all become available with these easy techswitches. I hope some Terran actually takes the time to read this and post an appopriate reply, instead of doing "haha QQ noobnobb !!" and just not arguing. Kind Regards, Toastie
Mule DOES NOT equal inject larva! Why does every1 feel the need to compare. Mule is there to balance the possibility of toss and zerg to build workers faster then T. If you miss a mule then in that time the Z/P had 5-6 more workers that were mining . If you remember at last about the mule and spam 2-3 mules that still doesnt cover the fact that you lost mining time.
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On September 15 2010 00:20 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. i was talking about which race is harder to play and i was saying macroing with the queen mechanic is harder than the orbital command mechanic, but in general i think all 3 races are about as hard to play (should call it as easy if u compare to sc1)
I think your blinded by the fact that you've stuck with Terran. If its the race you enjoy go for it. But to say that all three races are equally hard is just being ignorant and ignoring the arguments.
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There is no doubt that zerg is harder to play then protoss and terran. I would say protoss is the easiest to get decent at.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On September 15 2010 00:20 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. i was talking about which race is harder to play and i was saying macroing with the queen mechanic is harder than the orbital command mechanic, but in general i think all 3 races are about as hard to play (should call it as easy if u compare to sc1)
JulyZerg's comments : Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly." He added that "I'm currently the first place in my Diamond League, and I'm over 1500 points
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Wow those stats are pretty one sided, and as expected the thread has turned into a giant imbalance crying party.
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On September 15 2010 00:22 sadyque wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:14 ToastieNL wrote:I find Terran to be quite a bit forgiving, compared to Zerg. There's your Wall In, in case you make a small mistake, just run back and mass up a bit while you wall gets damaged by the roaches/lings. If Zerg messes up and for some reason gets its Zerglings in a perfect position for Hellions to roast them, well, the Zerg loses everything and gets said back very far... Then, there's the MULEs. I agree with you that currently, the game is to young for MULEs to have such a big timing importance, but at this moment, missing you MULE is not a problem at all. So is losing 10 SCVs to a baneling drop way less worse than 10 drones, you just use your mule, which gives money for 5-6 f*cking SCVs!!! Zerg needs to get Drones, which might build a little faster with the Larva mechanic, but they don't get the minerals they need soon enough for it to be important. Next to that, MULEs stack, Larva Inject doesn't. + Show Spoiler +Next up, the easilly available Tech Switch. Going for something, but you notice your opponent goes heavy on Roaches? Damn, lets just get these 2 raxesbuilding Marauders instead of Marines... How much time does it cost? 25 secs if you build a new, super cheap tech path? If the Zerg goes for Banelings because he saw the barracks building a Reactor, but than it gets swapped and transitions into Marauder Hellion, well, guess you're fucked, building your Lair and Spire will take enough time for the enemy to produce 15 Marauders and 10 Hellions, slaughtering everything you had. Lets not talk about Scouting. You are totally in the dark about what your opponent is doing?? Guess building a Barracks for some pretty much guaranteed scouting is quite an investment... Zerg needs to suicide 100 Minerals for uncertain scouting, as the buildings fly around and switch tech, the Overlords might miss some things, and they certainly die. It costs 150/100 for a higher chance of good scouting, or 100/100 to get an upgrade making scouting useable. Antiscouting? Terran Walls deny any form of scouting on the ground, missile turrets and Marines will keep the air clean. Once the Vikings come out, Zerg needs to either get Mass Muta, or just give up on map control and take all their overlords back home. Zerg lacks any Anti Air units early on, so the Early barracks guarantees scouting in the early- mid game. Queens just don't do it and Hydralisks get countered extraordinarilly hard by Tanks, and pretty decently by Hellions. Let's forget the Creep mechanic, it sucks. On September 15 2010 00:10 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. you're not gonna have this discussion are you? O;\ all your hatches instantly become a barracks, as well as starport, as well as a factory and a command center the instant you build the tech. The instant you build the tech... The instant .... You ment the 2 minutes for going up a tier and than getting the building? By the way, Terran has a hardcounter for every Zerg unit. An extremely Hard Counter, which all become available with these easy techswitches. I hope some Terran actually takes the time to read this and post an appopriate reply, instead of doing "haha QQ noobnobb !!" and just not arguing. Kind Regards, Toastie Mule DOES NOT equal inject larva! Why does every1 feel the need to compare. Mule is there to balance the possibility of toss and zerg to build workers faster then T. If you miss a mule then in that time the Z/P had 5-6 more workers that were mining . If you remember at last about the mule and spam 2-3 mules that still doesnt cover the fact that you lost mining time.
How do you justify, as a T player, the ability to have a higher income cap then both other races? ie, max saturation on a base for P and Z is 3 min per patch. Mules can mine over scvs + other mules, thus theoretically, Mules push the income cap of the T players up. Before you say something stupid like "oh they mine out faster'.
As day9 says (i'm pretty sure) money in the bank is better than money on the (min) matches.
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On September 15 2010 00:34 Gunman_csz wrote:
JulyZerg's comments : Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly." He added that "I'm currently the first place in my Diamond League, and I'm over 1500 points
He means it in a different way than you think. It's like this:
n = noob, a = average, p = pro
Skill-meter [-------------------------------------------]
Sc1: [-n-----a-------------------------------p]
Sc2: [----------n------------------a---------p]
In sc2, it's much EASIER to be better up to a certain level compared to sc1. The mechanics made this much easier, as well as being a lot more forgiving they are also a lot easier to execute. You don't need to send every worker you make to mineral line manually, etc.
Due to this, the people "high" on the skill-meter are on the same place that they would be in sc1, howver, the average player will be MUCH higher comparing to sc1, because the interface/game takes care of a lot of things that you would have to focus on a lot in sc1.
Meaning, the gaps between the ubers and not-so ubers are much smaller. The game itself , in terms of mechanics and the like, is a thousand times easier than sc1.
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On September 15 2010 00:14 ToastieNL wrote:
Zerg needs to suicide 100 Minerals for uncertain scouting, as the buildings fly around and switch tech, the Overlords might miss some things, and they certainly die. It costs 150/100 for a higher chance of good scouting, or 100/100 to get an upgrade making scouting useable.
i think it costs more, bc its very likely if you want to see everything you need to sacrifice that overlord (even with speed cant really make it in and out to the center of the base without dying). it costs actually 200 mineral (100+100) +1 larvae, or 100mineral+8 supply (opportunity cost).
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I find it funny. People usually say "Terran can wall In, they are so OP". What I think is "Nice, I can expand the hell I want to and Terrans MUST wall In".
Wall in isn't a virtue, it is a necessity. If they don't, they get run over. Is it hard to attack a walled Terran? Yes. Ok then, play the macro game, keep trying. Harass and do not let them expand. Spread creep, pop worms, dominate air.
There is so many things that can be done. I love the swarm.
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On September 15 2010 00:58 J7S wrote:
I find it funny. People usually say "Terran can wall In, they are so OP". What I think is "Nice, I can expand the hell I want to and Terrans MUST wall In".
Wall in isn't a virtue, it is a necessity. If they don't, they get run over. Is it hard to attack a walled Terran? Yes. Ok then, play the macro game, keep trying. Harass and do not let them expand. Spread creep, pop worms, dominate air.
There is so many things that can be done. I love the swarm.
Silly J7S, terran doesn't need to expand!
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On September 15 2010 00:34 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:20 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. i was talking about which race is harder to play and i was saying macroing with the queen mechanic is harder than the orbital command mechanic, but in general i think all 3 races are about as hard to play (should call it as easy if u compare to sc1) JulyZerg's comments : Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that " I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly." He added that "I'm currently the first place in my Diamond League, and I'm over 1500 points of course sc1 was harder
thats not even up for debate
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On September 15 2010 01:14 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 00:34 Gunman_csz wrote:On September 15 2010 00:20 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 15 2010 00:03 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:56 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 23:51 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 23:31 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:29 Sqq wrote:On September 14 2010 23:26 MorroW wrote:On September 14 2010 23:01 kataa wrote:You really think Idra and Dimaga wouldn't fair better in tournaments at the moment if they race switched to Terran? It's like asking what you'd rather have in a gunfight, a blunderbuss or an AK47.
they would do ALOT better if they switched to terran. but i think they also play the game for fun and not just to win and switching race might be great but blizzard has already stated that the new patch is coming and i think thats what keeping them on the zerg side, still some hope left i guess im sure idra would demolish me if we reversed race 1x1 and im pretty confident in saying idra would be top notch tvt level after just 2 weeks, dimaga would take longer time because he was zerg in sc1. idra was just that much better than everyone else in sc1 and that skill transfers, im sure of it ) i just hate that i must see everyone blame balance when its so obvious when the terran user just happens to be more skilled than the zerg. i talk to ret after a metalopolis game and we search for flaws in his play, we find them and he is happy to say he did mistakes, this he can improve. (we also find mistakes in my play obviously but thats not what i talk about) yes its imba and yes he would still lose even if he didnt do those mistakes because its imba but my point is that its so healthy mind set that he can find mistakes in his play even if he lose because of the imba. madfrog is another great example who i been talking to some. these players i have much respect for just for that reason, they can split the difference when they make mistakes and when its imbalanced. but 99% of zergs just say imba imba even after they make these huge blunders when it was really just their mistake costing them the game and these are the players that wont be good top level even after the game gets balanced The problem with mistakes is its so unforgiving when you do them with Zerg, but with Terran you can do rather huge mistakes and its still very forgiving. whats your point? my point is that there are players who say its imba always and there are players who sometimes say "i did a mistake" and sometimes say "ok something is wrong here". and there are TONS more players that just scream imba at everything. madfrog and ret did so well in previous games so they have this beautiful mind set of improving their game while other mediocre players are just pissing me off with their bs My point is you might be doing as many if not more mistakes playing Terran, as someone playing Zerg, but seing as your race forgives mistakes so easily its not as clear and out there for people to show. Forgot larva injest ? Your screwed. Forgot to call down mule ? Oh nevermind me, ill just throw down 5. As a Zerg player you need to play a near 100% game to even stand a chance against people like yourself. But as a Terran you don't need to be anywhere near as perfect in your executions. Any timing attack is just an added bonus. I remember watching the IEM and actually agreeing with your view on it, if its there to exploite than go for it, but after watching more and more tournaments its getting to the point where i dont care if I tune in because it will be some above mediocre player playing Terran vs a decent zerg \ protoss, and its the same borefest. Terran is so forgiving coupled with all their small advantages (easy scouting, easy expansion defense, easy air defense, etc). From a spectating perspective TvT is the only fun match up where a T is involved, TvZ and TvP is bloody aweful. Also look at the groups at the IEM NY. 1 pure T group and poor Artosises group. Half of those players wouldn't be anywhere near events like IEM if the Terran race wasn't so strong and forgiving. yes terran is a big newbfriendly race. i wish they made them easier and ive been saying that for months. first week of beta i wished the entire game to get easier. and this is why i almost wanna switch race, because i miss the challenge from sc1 and from what ive heard ppl say zerg is the hardest race but they might just be mixing that up with bad. zerg doesnt look too hard to play either, sure the macro mechanics of queen is harder than the orbital command, but other than that its even battlefield imo played toss 2 days, that race wasnt harder than terran even tho many said terran is this big newbfriendly race i think in the future if u miss mule calldowns it will be unforgiving just like miss larva inject. larva inject is alot more clear to see when its forgotten Even battlefield ? As a Zerg myself I'm playing blindly against a walled of Terran, and he can tech switch so easily. When playing zerg you need to go down certain tech paths, but as Terran you can easily switch techs thanks to a 50\50 and 50\25 tech buildings. Even Protoss has a hard time tech switching, and most Protosses has just ignored DTs even tho they where so strong in BW. the cost and time to get there is so extremly hard while fighting. While Terran will throw down Barrack, Factory, Starport in every game, and with the magic touch of flying your buildings around you open tech paths so easily. In general Terran is to easy and forgiving. Its basically impossible to get caught out tech wise as a Terran. All buildings bar Fusion Core \ Ghost Acadamy will be thrown down anyways as its normal. The race is to forgiving in all aspects and need to have some punishing elements to teching like Zerg and Protoss has. i was talking about which race is harder to play and i was saying macroing with the queen mechanic is harder than the orbital command mechanic, but in general i think all 3 races are about as hard to play (should call it as easy if u compare to sc1) JulyZerg's comments : Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that " I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly." He added that "I'm currently the first place in my Diamond League, and I'm over 1500 points of course sc1 was harder thats not even up for debate
yeah, it was probably mistranslated or something. he probably meant to say that it's harder for zerg against the other races compared to sc1.
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I was hoping for something more detailed, like cronologicly sorting all tournamets ( names given) since the release and by its winner. This really doesn't say me much. I want to know WHAT morrow has won, not how many times. Well, thanks for (almost) nothing.
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EPT
