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Here is why I don't like this much:
- non-auto mining skill in BW was visual for a spectator, no probes near nexus was impressive and many probes near a nexus less so. this is gone in sc2.
- non-MBS skill in BW was visual for a spectator as well, as many units meant impressive macro. in sc2 most people have impressive macro.
So for these things beyond a skill differential between good and bad you also have the added value (hugely important) of these things being recognizable for the spectator, turning it into a real sport.
For this discovery in SC2 I have a hard time believing a casual spectator (a hardcore fan could always spot it of course before anyone brings up he would have np noticing) could ever understand the visuals of why someone is impressive with his shift+c spam. With that in mind, at this point I am not a fan of this. If your argument is the more APM the better for esports because it diversifies the players, also think about esport as a spectator sport and this doing it no good at all. You need both factors to argue this point and this 'trick' only has 1 of the 2 required.
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I already saw Trump using this trick on his stream.
I wonder how widespread it shall become.
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I'm already using this, but it doesn't really make much difference in a real game. It's somewhat useful against people who don't do it and proxy rush, but this will only give an edge to players who proxy barracks every single game because you have less workers to control so it affects you better than the opponent defending.
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i don't understand method 3 for mules... if shift clicking to return to the minerals and cc faster works why can't you just constantly just shift click minerals why does the c command have to be issued... if method 3 is correct it states that if you shift click back to the minerals while it's mining it mines boosted... so why can't you just continue to do that method queueing up hella commands without the "c" in there??
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Blizzard probably made that delay so that 3 workers can saturate a mineral patch perfectly. Without that delay, less workers would be needed to fully saturate and expansion.
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On September 14 2010 03:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Here is why I don't like this much:
- non-auto mining skill in BW was visual for a spectator, no probes near nexus was impressive and many probes near a nexus less so. this is gone in sc2.
- non-MBS skill in BW was visual for a spectator as well, as many units meant impressive macro. in sc2 most people have impressive macro.
So for these things beyond a skill differential between good and bad you also have the added value (hugely important) of these things being recognizable for the spectator, turning it into a real sport.
For this discovery in SC2 I have a hard time believing a casual spectator (a hardcore fan could always spot it of course before anyone brings up he would have np noticing) could ever understand the visuals of why someone is impressive with his shift+c spam. With that in mind, at this point I am not a fan of this. If your argument is the more APM the better for esports because it diversifies the players, also think about esport as a spectator sport and this doing it no good at all. You need both factors to argue this point and this 'trick' only has 1 of the 2 required.
I don't think this is really a fair comparison, Nazgul.
I mean, your point is valid and makes a lot of sense, but in order for a trick like this to detract from the spectating aspect of it, it needs to be taking time away from something more interesting that the players would otherwise be doing.
I have nowhere near pro-level micro abilities, but trying this trick myself, I can see it becoming ridiculously difficult after the first few minutes of a game. Aside from MULEs, and I imagine a real macro oriented Terran pro will use this trick on every single MULE, I will be surprised if it's done a great deal after 20-30 supply.
At that stage of the game, what are players doing that you would rather see? Sometimes scout micro is pretty interesting, but I'm sure professionals will be able to do this while controlling their scout. It may add a level to it, since scouting workers will be able to attack workers queued with this, forcing the other player to take them off the queue to defend or run away.
If this trick were so important that players were doing it the entire game long, or doing it to the exclusion of more interesting things, then I think your argument would have a good deal of merit.
But in the first three minutes of the game, what are they going to be doing that you would rather watch?
I do not really like the concept of mindless repetitive clicking impacting the skill ceiling of a game. I don't really like Starcraft 1. But I like this trick, precisely because it gives you something important you can do during a stage of the game when most pro's are doing things like hotkeying their command center 9 times and spamming between control groups. That's less engaging than this is.
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But I still think this wont be used in the end. It distracts so much from the actual game, that i requires allot practice, and it doesn't give you that big of an advantage anyway.
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everyone that wants this issue to get patched should post a reply on the official bug report here:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627977888?page=1#4
it's possible that bliz would read this TL thread anyways, but the only way to guarantee this is if enough people post on the bug report thread to make it very popular
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I don't really have much of an opinion on how this will effect esports, but as a player it's nice to hear about neat little tricks like this, it's sort of reminiscent of BW in a way. Haven't had a chance to test it personally yet but the fact that it's possible opens up some possibilities, even if just a tad. It will probably have a bigger impact in tournament setups and the pro scene just because it makes the occasional proxy a little bit more viable.
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I dont like it cause , that brings back the old mechanics I means less attention to battles and stuff like that and more to little tiny things .
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I don't know if I like this... I'm kinda lazy.
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yeah I'm not a fan of this either. SC2 was created to be more than "whoever has the best effective APM always wins"
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This isnt good at all. If APM and macro to you is massing shift commands on a mineral (LOL) then you have to get your brain checked. It's not even difficult to do its just stupid and linear. Instead of adding stupid shit like this they could of gotten rid of MBS
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I'm actually a bit torn now on whether or not I should use this or not. OBVIOUSLY Blizzard is going to patch this. I know a lot of people get the bw wiggles but its clear that this is not intentional and blizzard have made it pretty clear that they do not want sc2 to have this particular kind of "mechanic".
So my dilemma is, if I use this trick now, it is actually going to alter all my timings a bit, and if this is patched in two weeks then I will have to adjust them again. Although the question is just how long it will take until this is patched out.
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i don't see why anyone would ever hate on this. it's available in game and it can be used to gain an advantage on your opponent. you should be willing to do whatever you can legally to win and if you're not willing to support little things like this then you don't really care about winning in the first place; therefore your opinion is meaningless.
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i personally hope they remove this, would hinder my probe harass to much
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On September 14 2010 03:57 Ketara wrote:
I'm sure professionals will be able to do this while controlling their scout.
On September 14 2010 04:28 HuK wrote:
i personally hope they remove this, would hinder my probe harass to much
I guess I am wrong!
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Very nice, beats the hell out of spamming to keep your hands warm.
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I dont like this at all. I hope it is patched.
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On September 14 2010 04:28 HuK wrote:
i personally hope they remove this, would hinder my probe harass to much
Don't see why this would be the case. Sure, harassing with a probe will be much harder when you're also "mineral boosting", but if your opponent is mineral boosting as well, he will also have a harder time fending off your probe.
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EPT
