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On September 14 2010 01:17 Ndugu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 00:42 z00t wrote:On September 14 2010 00:38 Ndugu wrote:
Theoretically, if Blizzard patches this the easiest way-- making it so that workers just work most efficiently-- it might end up being the kind of little nudge-buff that would help Zerg players survive aggressive all-inish stuff while macrong. Would push the game in a great direction to give a tiny little boost to macro players over non-macro players. But since all races' workers would benefit from such a 'fix', wouldn't it just end up being the same as it is now  ? Why would macro players get any more of an edge over non-macro players than they do at the moment? Well, its not a HUGE advantage haha, but compare say, a 4gating Protoss who stops at only like 16 workers to make his push extra effective versus a 2-base Zerg who droned extra hard and has both bases close to saturated before the push comes. He'll have eeked out SLIGHTLY more of an economic advantage from it and perhaps have a bit more money to throw into defense. Odds are it would never actually be a noticeable advantage, but it a slight effect of patching this (which I think will happen).
haha have you seen bw? koreans jizz over a canceled probe at pro levels cause EVERY mineral counts.. if this same intensity translates to sc2, a 7% increase is HUGE.
and i dont think its intended to be used continuously for each worker throughout the whole game... more like just till you get your first marine/zealot/ling out
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I seriously thought that I was just being a noob when I thought clicking SCV's and telling them to return right as they finished mining made them collect faster. This is awesome. I hated spamming the normal way, so this is going to make the game a lot more fun!
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Hyrule19264 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:07 Runnin wrote:
I don't understand how this could be considered fun for anyone. The game would have a higher skill cap and require even more APM if automining was removed entirely and you had to manually command each worker to collect and then return resources - would TL be supportive of that? I probably won't play SC for too much longer, but I expect to be watching for a long time if the SC2 scene stays around as long as BW, and I'd rather the future players practice something more useful and entertaining than maintaining this skill as long as possible.
What are you on about? Automine refers soley to workers rallied to resources automatically mining from them, not manual gather/return commands.
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time to practice my sockfolding
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On September 14 2010 02:23 Pedo.Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 01:17 Ndugu wrote:On September 14 2010 00:42 z00t wrote:On September 14 2010 00:38 Ndugu wrote:
Theoretically, if Blizzard patches this the easiest way-- making it so that workers just work most efficiently-- it might end up being the kind of little nudge-buff that would help Zerg players survive aggressive all-inish stuff while macrong. Would push the game in a great direction to give a tiny little boost to macro players over non-macro players. But since all races' workers would benefit from such a 'fix', wouldn't it just end up being the same as it is now ? Why would macro players get any more of an edge over non-macro players than they do at the moment? Well, its not a HUGE advantage haha, but compare say, a 4gating Protoss who stops at only like 16 workers to make his push extra effective versus a 2-base Zerg who droned extra hard and has both bases close to saturated before the push comes. He'll have eeked out SLIGHTLY more of an economic advantage from it and perhaps have a bit more money to throw into defense. Odds are it would never actually be a noticeable advantage, but it a slight effect of patching this (which I think will happen). haha have you seen bw? people jizz over a canceled probe at pro levels cause EVERY mineral counts.. if this same intensity translates to sc2, a 7% increase is HUGE. and i dont think its intended to be used continuously for each worker throughout the whole game... more like just till you get your first marine/zealot/ling out
Just to confirm this, pro vs ama handicap games in which you pro starts with 1 less worker were too imbalanced in favor of the ama. 7% extra early in the game is huge.
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On September 14 2010 02:28 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:07 Runnin wrote:
I don't understand how this could be considered fun for anyone. The game would have a higher skill cap and require even more APM if automining was removed entirely and you had to manually command each worker to collect and then return resources - would TL be supportive of that? I probably won't play SC for too much longer, but I expect to be watching for a long time if the SC2 scene stays around as long as BW, and I'd rather the future players practice something more useful and entertaining than maintaining this skill as long as possible. What are you on about? Automine refers soley to workers rallied to resources automatically mining from them, not manual gather/return commands.
I made it pretty clear what I was saying. If you'd rather nitpick at the technical terms I used instead of actually addressing what I said then I am beginning to understand why you'd rather be spamming shift return cargo than playing an RTS.
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On September 13 2010 04:54 in7e.sCream wrote:
reminds me kind of peon micro in war3
my exactly first thought ^^
but in wc3 the trick was discovered very late... sc2 is devolping so incredibly fast
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I can't believe the guy in the video presents this as a "cool technique that he hoped to find in SC2, awesome!". Come on... this is the kind of repetitive pointless action that we want out of a strategy game.
Anyway blizzard will probably patch this out soon, thanks for discovering this issue.
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On September 14 2010 02:50 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I can't believe the guy in the video presents this as a "cool technique that he hoped to find in SC2, awesome!". Come on... this is the kind of repetitive pointless action that we want out of a strategy game.
Anyway blizzard will probably patch this out soon, thanks for discovering this issue.
it's only effective early game, or on bases with low worker count. doing tihs late game is a bit costly cz u want to be controlling a ton of other stuff instead. this makes the early game a a bit more interesting, and gives a small margin of boost, rewarding apm and creating a limited potential lead over your opponent to shave a few seconds offf on your build. throw harassing and harass defending, and there u have a pretty damn high skill ceiling, but a limited scope of advantage.
On September 14 2010 02:07 Runnin wrote:
I don't understand how this could be considered fun for anyone. The game would have a higher skill cap and require even more APM if automining was removed entirely and you had to manually command each worker to collect and then return resources - would TL be supportive of that? I probably won't play SC for too much longer, but I expect to be watching for a long time if the SC2 scene stays around as long as BW, and I'd rather the future players practice something more useful and entertaining than maintaining this skill as long as possible.
i thnk it's fun
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I hope blizzards patch this thing. This is seriously in the category of boring repetitive department,
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I like how people mistake fast repetitive movements and skill
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sockfolder you are my hero. thanks for discovering and sharing.
for everybody who is bitching around, you don`t deserve this game and your ignorance and lazyness is pissing me off.
my apologies for the language
cheers
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you guys think blizz patches this or keeps it in? could be valuable early for stopping early cheese.
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Tricks like this helps heightening the skill ceiling thus creating a larger difference between good and pro players.
The posts in this thread reminds me of the discussions of MBS when it was first announced. Some people said it wouldn't make much difference, but a huge counter argument to this was the fact that pro players in BW had to decide whether to spend APM on macro or micro. And this would dimish a bit with MBS.
This trick brings up the same factor, just a lot earlier in the game. Player A might prefer to spend actions on microing his scouting probe. He can harass with it, maybe damage 5-6 SCVs to 60% life (seen HuK's probe micro?).
Player B however, might use these actions to do this trick, generating a bit more income.
You see there is a decision involved here? It's not bad for a strategy game at all.
Also, for people who worry about being to lazy to utilize this, there is no way that this trick will affect the match you play at your level of play ANYWAY. I mean, if you're not fast enough to pull this trick off, you shouldn't worry about your opponent gaining a huge advantage by doing it either, since he should be at your skill level. Thus, Blizzard really shouldn't patch this issue, which isn't really an issue at all.
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On September 14 2010 00:11 Ruien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 23:58 Trampsi wrote:
I did your method #2 i believe, and with workers taking turns on mining, specially on the close mineral patches, they would mess up and one would get ahead of the other, return too early, and change patch. i ended up losing like 5 seconds in the first 2 and a half minutes cause of this.
Confirmed. the shift-click + hold "C" option is better. Sorry about that.
Hm, i used mehod #1 but you understood what i meant it seems =)
But I don't see how method #1 differs from method #2 in probe behaviour.
Anyone gotten this to work reliably on close mineral patches? Judging by OPs numbers, forcing 2 drones mining from close patches is better than having one drone on each close patch with this trick, as a Boosted Far Patch is 7.14 sec, and a unboosted close patch is 6.74 sec. Gain is bigger if you let close patches just mine and not mess them up with this trick - unless you somehow get it to work reliably ofc.
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A good way to stop this would be to send your scout directly to the mineral line and start attacking workers, screwing up their queues if they wish to defend it.
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Dont know if someone mentioned this before in this thread, but WC3 had a similar bug/glitch
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Dunno why anyone would release exploits like this since it gives you an advantage. I know replays give it away, but I think it'd still elude a lot of people.
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I think it's gonna stay for now. Why else would blizz intentionally hard-code a delay in the automining?
Ofc if enough ppl get upset they might do something about it, but not yet
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Very nice... I'm sure we'll start to see Pros implementing this (or maybe they already are O.o) Even if this shaves off mere seconds of the early building process, that could easily mean an extra marine/ling/zealot in the early game.
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EPT
