EPTActually Dustin Browder have said that there is no smart firing technically. There is just a 0.5 second delay with how tanks shoot so they don't all waste shots on a single unit. Can't find the interview right now but I remember reading it on a interview.
Tank Stacking - Page 12
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
Actually Dustin Browder have said that there is no smart firing technically. There is just a 0.5 second delay with how tanks shoot so they don't all waste shots on a single unit. Can't find the interview right now but I remember reading it on a interview. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:39 corpuscle wrote: Because it IS a problem for people who aren't that good at the game and don't know how to deal with it. Low level players shouldn't have to learn how to counter people who are using exploits, they should be able to just enjoy the game. people who use this exploit are probably not going to be in the lower levels. most lower level players cant even micro. however, if you show it used to me in lower levels then i will stick my foot in my mouth. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:41 dAPhREAk wrote: people who use this exploit are probably not going to be in the lower levels. most lower level players cant even micro. however, if you show it used to me in lower levels then i will stick my foot in my mouth. So if I taught my friend in silver how to set up stacked tanks, would you agree it's stupid? It's not something that's difficult to execute, you just build buildings, spam right click so your medivacs stack, and then use a drop command. edit: and if you don't think that people in lower leagues will figure out how to do this, you're wrong. plenty of people in low leagues read reddit, TL, and the bnet forums (hell I'm pretty sure that ONLY people below plat read the bnet forums). | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:44 corpuscle wrote: So if I taught my friend in silver how to set up stacked tanks, would you agree it's stupid? It's not something that's difficult to execute, you just build buildings, spam right click so your medivacs stack, and then use a drop command. edit: and if you don't think that people in lower leagues will figure out how to do this, you're wrong. plenty of people in low leagues read reddit, TL, and the bnet forums (hell I'm pretty sure that ONLY people below plat read the bnet forums). yeah, im not too worried about this exploit because i doubt it will be seen in real competition, including ladder. if blizzard fixes it, so be it. if they dont, meh, whatever... | ||
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deafhobbit
United States828 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:39 corpuscle wrote: Because it IS a problem for people who aren't that good at the game and don't know how to deal with it. Low level players shouldn't have to learn how to counter people who are using exploits, they should be able to just enjoy the game. Meh. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
Also, the fact that it's essentially the same bug that allows you to push tanks off of cliffs should be reason enough that they just fix the whole thing. They are gonna have to address the "flying tank" bug, or else you're gonna have to start getting used to having people rush to tanks to siege your main and have no way to deal with it. Meh. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. good logic, dude. you should go into game design. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:54 corpuscle wrote: I really don't want to have to wait until it starts being a problem for Blizzard to patch it, though. It's not supposed to be in the game, it doesn't make the game better, and it's their job to fix it when something's broken like that, even if it's not blatantly exploitable. Also, the fact that it's essentially the same bug that allows you to push tanks off of cliffs should be reason enough that they just fix the whole thing. They are gonna have to address the "flying tank" bug, or else you're gonna have to start getting used to having people rush to tanks to siege your main and have no way to deal with it. good logic, dude. you should go into game design. well, lets try this. has this ever impacted any game you have played? | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:59 dAPhREAk wrote: well, lets try this. has this ever impacted any game you have played? I haven't played since the bug got revealed (besides doing testing to see how to do it), but there's a VOD of Dragon using the flying tank bug to win. I figure they should fix this since it'll get rid of both issues in one fell swoop. Also, whether it's happened to me is completely irrelevant. We don't have to wait for people to lose to it to recognize that it's not supposed to be in the game, and should be fixed. Again, I don't think it's a viable strategy, and I can't imagine losing a game to it, but I don't see how that really affects whether it should be removed or not. Something that has even a minor potential for abuse (like the fact that if you walk into a stack of tanks as opposed to a regular tank line, you'll lose more units) and is a bug/exploit should be removed. Honestly, though, I'm done with this, you guys should just watch what Machine and iNcontroL said about this. It's a really simple argument, and I feel like I'm just banging my head against a wall here. | ||
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deafhobbit
United States828 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:54 corpuscle wrote: I really don't want to have to wait until it starts being a problem for Blizzard to patch it, though. It's not supposed to be in the game, it doesn't make the game better, and it's their job to fix it when something's broken like that, even if it's not blatantly exploitable. Also, the fact that it's essentially the same bug that allows you to push tanks off of cliffs should be reason enough that they just fix the whole thing. They are gonna have to address the "flying tank" bug, or else you're gonna have to start getting used to having people rush to tanks to siege your main and have no way to deal with it. good logic, dude. you should go into game design. You're latter rational is good. If fixing flying tanks, which is clearly a problem, requires fixing this then so be it. However, you have no proof of this at this point, so it's moot. In the absence of proof of that point, however, all your other points fall apart. You've said it isn't causing any problems, and that there are ways to work around it. Because of this, it's clearly not breaking the game at this point, so there's no urgent need to remove it. All your points about it distorting the balance of low level play are irrelevent when this entire time you've emphasized how hard this is to do. If it's too difficult for a pro to pull off in a real match, why should we expect it to effect the balance of low level play? Moreover, why should we even care if it does? Furthermore, you're really not clear what a "problem" is. That is, you say you want fixed to prevent future problems, but you never define what sort of situation that would be. Personally, if a pro found an interesting way to gain an advantage through stacking a few tanks on top of each other in a good location, i wouldn't see it as a problem, but rather an interesting tactic. At the point where you've stated so many counters to this tactic (going around them, forcing them to un-siege, etc) it seems difficult to imagine a situation where this would be unbeatable. At best, there will be situations where there are advantages and disadvantages to stacking tanks. This adds more decisions and greater mechanical demands to the game, which is a good thing. Which brings us back to your point about how "it's not supposed to be in the game." Again, i would reference you to all sorts of awesome things in other games that were unintended consequences of the game's design. By itself, something not being intended isn't enough of a reason to remove it, it should be causing problems. At the point where 1) Tank Stacking is hard enough to do that it is unlikely to seriously disrupt low level play. 2) There exist obvious counters to it, which make it at best situationally useful. 3) There is at least the possibility that at some point it could lead to interesting situations. There's no good reason to get rid of it. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
Yes but if my lings are attacking your SCVs your SCVs will take splash damage if tanks fire at them. If your tanks dont fire at them then the lings kill your SCVs anyway. How does smart firing fix that? On January 25 2012 08:49 corpuscle wrote: besides the fact that those tanks cover the ramp to the natural (I use that position with unstacked tanks all the time because it's a good position), how does stacking tanks somehow mean you can't defend the rest of your base...? It's not like you have to put all your tanks there and not make marines and not wall off. Because if you invest multiple tanks in defending a single position without the possibility of moving those tanks then it means you are forced to defend without them if I attack elsewhere. If you put tanks in that position normally (not stacked) you're able to easily unsiege and move your tanks into a position where you can defend the drops. You're in an ENTIRELY defensive position and can't be offensive with your tanks. I am free to expand and can prevent your 4th indefinitely until you move enough of your tanks out of the stack. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:06 corpuscle wrote: I haven't played since the bug got revealed (besides doing testing to see how to do it), but there's a VOD of Dragon using the flying tank bug to win. I figure they should fix this since it'll get rid of both issues in one fell swoop. Also, whether it's happened to me is completely irrelevant. We don't have to wait for people to lose to it to recognize that it's not supposed to be in the game, and should be fixed. Again, I don't think it's a viable strategy, and I can't imagine losing a game to it, but I don't see how that really affects whether it should be removed or not. Something that has even a minor potential for abuse (like the fact that if you walk into a stack of tanks as opposed to a regular tank line, you'll lose more units) and is a bug/exploit should be removed. Honestly, though, I'm done with this, you guys should just watch what Machine and iNcontroL said about this. It's a really simple argument, and I feel like I'm just banging my head against a wall here. my point is that i dont see it as a problem that needs immediate attention. i have never seen it in my play, or in streamed games. if blizzard wants to fix it, go ahead, but if they dont (or are waiting for a larger patch), i have no problem with that. whats the flying tank bug? i searched, but found nothing. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On January 24 2012 19:02 TBO wrote: I'm just 99% sure but I think they fixed the flying templar / flying drone bug and what we have here is definitely on the same level just with siege tanks. Lol because flying siege tanks and stacking siege tanks are the same thing. -_- | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:16 dAPhREAk wrote: whats the flying tank bug? i searched, but found nothing. this video explaining how he did it btw way to read the whole thread before arguing with me, thanks | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:24 corpuscle wrote: this video explaining how he did it btw way to read the whole thread before arguing with me, thanks when did i ever talk about a flying tank? the thread is about stacking tanks..... | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:30 corpuscle wrote: if you can't see that those two exploits are a result of the same piece of faulty code, I don't know what to tell you. if they fixed whatever allows two tanks to occupy the same space, you wouldn't be able to push them off cliffs and make them "fly" either. flying tank seems like more of a problem than stacking tanks. im still meh about it. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:30 corpuscle wrote: if you can't see that those two exploits are a result of the same piece of faulty code, I don't know what to tell you. if they fixed whatever allows two tanks to occupy the same space, you wouldn't be able to push them off cliffs and make them "fly" either. Source? You can easily fix one problem without the other. You can still stack colossus, but the flying colossus bug was fixed. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15714 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:39 corpuscle wrote: Because it IS a problem for people who aren't that good at the game and don't know how to deal with it. Low level players shouldn't have to learn how to counter people who are using exploits, they should be able to just enjoy the game. This is also just a totally different beast than the types of things in BW. Drone floating was a bug that was just plain bad for competitive play. But other "bugs" like vultures being able to shoot while moving and muta stacking were good. They were also much less extreme than tank stacking and flying tanks..lol. Its not like all bugs are equal :p Anyone with a WC3 background remember the tome bug? Where your hero would get as many tomes as the number of times you clicked on it? :p | ||
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ZiegFeld
351 Posts
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:38 sluggaslamoo wrote: Source? You can easily fix one problem without the other. You can still stack colossus, but the flying colossus bug was fixed. flying colossus bug wasn't a stacking issue. what you'd do is block off the exits to your robo with other buildings and then the colossus would pop out on the other side. the reason flying tank works is that you can stack tanks and then if you only unsiege one of them, it gets pushed to the side because it gets freed up. if you couldn't stack tanks period, you wouldn't be able to make them fly. yes, you could probably fix the flying bug without fixing stacking, but fixing stacking would solve both in one fell swoop. | ||
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