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MLG Raleigh Casting - Page 7

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Kage
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
India788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 08:32:48
August 28 2010 08:27 GMT
#121
You know I am a talk show enthusiast (some day I'd like to have a show) and here's what I have learned from my observations. This could be taken as constructive feedback and if you disagree don't go all "motherfucka you don't know shit" just say you disagree and why.

To summarise. I think Husky and HD need work but they aren't terrible at all, they just need to keep some pointers in mind. And JP looks so good because he's with Day[9] first off and secondly is a Diamond league player who analyses his game (as was evident in his podcast).

I posted this analysis in my blog if someone doesn't want to read through the whole thing here.

The Flow
In any talk show you'll see that the most important thing is the flow of the conversation. Certain masters have it within them to keep people entertained by constantly talking. However the only way to make this seem unnatural is to talk in the story flow. That is either building up a previous thread and adding new insights or to pick up a new interjection and tie it in. Because every story has a beginning and ending and involves high points of drama.

This was evident with Day[9] and not so much with JP. Day9 picks up a story while they were waiting for the audience and then ties it back to the game. It also has a lot to do with being very comfortable in front of the camera. Which HD and Husky seem to lack. So point here is to
either think of the flow before hand (eg:- I will start with talking about the map, then some interesting thing i saw in a replay, then end it with what this guy did different and what is coming up next or what could be interesting in this map or different matchups on this map).

You can see how much experience plays a factor here because DJWheats a master of this. His flow is so good you almost think he knows Starcraft 2 through in and out but if you observe carefully you'll see he pauses to let the other player offer insight because they know more than him. The tag-teaming part is very important here which is a thing HD and Husky aren't quite getting. They go silent together, they don't compliment each other on humour or flow (explained below). But nothing's terrible, just needs practice.

The Humour
Humour, in conversation (and in dating) is a vital element. If you cannot be funny, you cannot succeed. This doesn't mean you start in with yo mama jokes. You gauge the audience and then supplement your commentary accordingly.

The thing with Husky and HD is that they are very game specific joke tellers. They use units and very specific inner jokes to highlight something funny. Day[9] and Tasteless (who is a master of this btw) use jokes that humanise the situation a lot more. They can instantly relate it to something funny outside the game and hence appear to be more than just game-nerds.

The Analysis
This is the key difference between both the teams. Day[9] has very very strategic insights and since he's a great player is able to quickly distinguish what the player is going to do and then explain why or why not the player is doing what he is doing.

On contrast Tasteless emphasises on the humour part but doesn't lay out a strategic plan. He does a better job explaining the current status of the game, as opposed to the future path that the players are going to take. This is what Husky and HD fall into the in game right now thinking.

Artosis is a master in this analysis game. He is not funny but recognises humour quickly. He'd pass as an intelligent guy but not a charismatic guy. But if you want to really "learn" the game you need a guy like Artosis. If you want to stay entertained you need a guy like Tasteless. Day9's almost perfectly in between and hence he's so good.

The Mechanics

You can't offer insight into a game if you haven't played it yourself at the highest level. Talking about flanking and back door entry, macro micro supply blocking etc etc are all things you know when you play enough. I don't want to comment on that part but from what I saw Husky and HD clearly don't play the game at the highest level. You can't talk about muta micro or building positioning importance if you don't know about it. This was again a tactic that Day9 uses to one up the competition.

Chill btw is very good at this too along with the fact that his flow and humour are very very good.

That's not saying much that toss that played nadagast was terrible for an 800 diamond player so this is not their fault.

The Camera Angle and looks

This is something I read. But if you look weird and scrubby then you are mentally (and subconsciously) perceieved to be inferior. Im not calling anyone out on looks cause hey that's genetic. And we all dont think we look good anyway. But I'd suggest taking a good angle to show your face to the camera at whenever you talk. That's why you'll almost always see models pose to the right or left and show part of their profile when they take pictures and not a frontal assault. This is esp true of fat guys (like me) to take note of.

This is no ones fault but the camera man's to find out what looks good and then relay it. It wouldn't help husky to comb his hair a bit and appear neater (pushing your hair back and giving it a wet look perhaps).

Voice Modulation
The second most important thing after the flow is the voice modulation. Day9s just really gifted in the department and has improved with his training of his dailies. In research there is a perfect pitch or vocal tone that human beings have that are instantly melodious to hear. That's why when someone sounds like a tin drum you are instantly put off because their base resonant vibration of their pitch is hurting to the hears. But it's also tied in with the image to a large extent (ever found a super hot woman talking like a man hotter than a super hot woman talking in a softer tone?) of how you appear to be.

Tasteless goes in thinking hes a pimp and knowing hes going to come out as one. There's that confidence that translates into charisma. Artosis knows he cant match that so he goes in as a professor. It boils down to your style really and Day9 picks up the standup style while JP knows his role as Watson (or Robin).

Husky and HD unfortunately haven't really figured out their style yet. Except to talk really fast and thus come across as no voice modulation. At one point when they scream about the raid on a protosses base my roommate comes screaming in saying why are you watching rape videos at 3 am (prolly my mistake for not having headphones). As the excitement builds up husky should prevent himself from squealing. That is really really unpleasant.

Look at Tasteless getting excited he shouts and does all that jing bang but doesn't resort to a twang pitch.

Stamina
This is where I think everyones on par. They are all doing a great job casting and keeping the energy and rythm you can really see they love what they are doing here.

And I fail here because I can't write anymore lol.

Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
August 28 2010 08:28 GMT
#122
I like all of them.... it's just that when i watch Day[9] and JP i know that i'll get more insight out of it than HD and Husky as they tend to miss some things (like seeing the corrupters in production, and wonder why, when the greater spire's icon is right next to it)
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
August 28 2010 08:28 GMT
#123
I like HD and husky as people and respect that they do alot to get people into the starcraft scene but personally i just find them difficult to listen to, husky is knowledgeable but tends to ramble at 100 words a second, while HD gives a feeling of 'fake' in his excited voice, it just doesnt feel he is naturally excited or interested in a big event on screen and is forcing it which could be the case after criticism about been excited, you can never win eh? Im willing to tune into their commentaries but i dont feel they deserve something like MLG just yet as they are very new to live commentary, maybe do some smaller tournaments that arnt done on vods.
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
August 28 2010 08:31 GMT
#124
On August 28 2010 17:21 Endorsed wrote:
Show nested quote +
Obviously Day9 knows more about the game than both of them combined. But HD and Husky are way more entertaining, they arent always trying to be serious.


They would be entertaining if they didn't say stupid shit. 2 Gate on steppes of war not standard against Terran?



It's just a minor mistake who cares? I know that when a Zerg goes 6 pool he's probably cheesing, i dont need anyone to tell me that, i'd rather have commentators talking about IdrA's BM, or how cute a probe looks.

If HD said "proxy 6 rax, he's probably going for a macro game" he probably just made a mistake, so just relax, the entertaining part of a commentary is not the explaining of a strategy, but the enthusiasm and crazyness about the commentators I love that Husky screams storm all the time, and that day9 whips his fingers or whatever

But i guess it's different what people enjoy.
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
August 28 2010 08:34 GMT
#125
I really envy the amount of passion when listening to koreans commentating, its more emotional and fun to listen to. Please go this direction. And no, that is not too much to ask, if we want this game to be amazing to watch.

I appreciate that we have casters showing up, we need this, we also need to encourage HDH to be better, cause lets be honest, they have something day9 does not have. Insight will come to HDH, but they have excitement which we sorely need right now.
I am not a fan of any casters right now, so dont put me into some fanboy container.
Vz0
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada378 Posts
August 28 2010 08:38 GMT
#126
The only thing that annoys me about casters is when they talk about obvious stuff.
It just bugs me because it almost treats me like a retard and that the caster has to take me hand through the game.

tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2542 Posts
August 28 2010 08:39 GMT
#127
On August 28 2010 13:25 sAfuRos wrote:
Going to sleep soon so i'll be rather blunt

HD is awful. He has a good quality stream but with MLG that is null. He doesn't know what is going on, can't predict the games, can't predict strategy, doesn't understand matchups very much, and misses everything that is important

Husky is better, but lets HD spout his nonsense and it makes him seem worse. Husky also misses important things that are going on, but knows more.

But yes, HD is just....oh god. At least he doesn't talk about "chrono boosting his probes for the economy" as if its revolutionary anymore. Like, really, chrono boosting probes for economy? I thought it was for a fucking probe rush, chrono is such a proskill and you never see it

I'll probably get mobbed, but I completely agree with this. Ever since the transition to SC2, I've felt this way. He was better in SC1 imo.

Maybe it's counter-intuitive for me to make this post, but I really hope that HD improves his commentating. He's the play-by-play provider but his analysis is often wrong or just plain trivial.

Husky is a funny commentator and his analysis is decent, but I find that he gets distracted way too much for a game like SC2, which is quite a short game.

Nonetheless, I'll keep supporting HD and Husky and watching some of their videos and events. I've been following Husky since he had 100 subscribers and he's probably still one of my favourite commentators (along with Cholera, Diggity and Day[9]).
Betrayed by EG.BuK
taintmachine
Profile Joined May 2010
United States431 Posts
August 28 2010 08:40 GMT
#128
HD and husky need to work on some stuff but overall (play play play the game imo!) they're good at what they're doing.
Whoami777
Profile Joined August 2010
United States8 Posts
August 28 2010 08:47 GMT
#129
Husky is the John Madden of Starcraft. He points out the obvious and isnt particularly knowledgable about what he is talking about. However, he ramps up the excitement of a battle better than any other caster out there. If you were to have him co-cast with day9, it would be perfect. day9 for analysis, husky for stupid-yet-awesome jokes. I like both casters.
Blackhawk13
Profile Joined April 2010
United States442 Posts
August 28 2010 08:48 GMT
#130
I like Day9 a lot and JP is decent, i think he has improved quite a bit since the king of the beta

Husky and HD.. they did fine considering it was their first time doing anything like this. They also had to figure out how to work together (Day9 and JP have cast kotb together so they already had this down pretty much). One thing that bothers me about Husky is he rarely looks at the camera and he goes on hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee run on sentences saying and and and and and 500 times, while talking really fast and it just kinda pains me. I like HD's voice a lot better than husky's as well.

But I appreciate all the streams/casts/games/sc2 in general that these guys bring to us, and for this I like them all.
groms
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1017 Posts
August 28 2010 08:50 GMT
#131
I hope these type of threads don't pop up everytime HD & Husky cast @ MLG b/c I'm pretty sure they will continue to be invited to future MLG events. That being said they can improve but I think that takes time. Their game knowledge, mini-map awareness and even mouse control could all stand to improve.

Now that the constructive criticism is out of the way some positives from having these two at this event. They attract the casual crowd, they have 200k+ suscribers who listen to their every word and that is very powerful. Lots of people will say there are better casters but I ask where are they? These two are prolific, they pump out more videos than the rest of the community combined,(exaggeration) they also provide excitement which allows those who don't understand the details of the game to appreciate what is going on.

Point being they did a lot of hard work to get to where they are today. Those who wish to get their names out there now will have to work hard to do so but they have paved the way.

Personally I enjoyed all the casting and I found day9's and Jp's casts to be less enjoyable b/c they got the crappier games. I'm more interested in the matches than the casting. Husky and HD lucked out and got some amazing matches to cast.

The most important point of all is TL.net may not be their target audience and that's OK.
I have a recurring dream that I'm running away from a terran player but the marauders keep slowing me down. - Artosis
leve15
Profile Joined August 2010
United States301 Posts
August 28 2010 09:03 GMT
#132
Day9 (or whoever is controlling the camera) is going to give me a seizure with the camera control. Or a headache.
Immersion_
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom794 Posts
August 28 2010 09:09 GMT
#133
I have to say when I'm just looking to 'sit back and watch a bit of Starcraft' I really like HD and Husky, in terms of a bit of fail analysis, I can generally recognize the mistake myself, but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment, and I don't see how it does to everyone else unless you are pretty obsessive about it, they make like 1/2 cast max.

I think it's important to have casters like this, *especially* at high profile events, in order for the community to continue to grow. Four Day9s talking about pylon placement 24/7 would put off loads of people, whereas at IEM the other week I found myself watching a bit of Quake instead of just turning off, and I think good commentators greatly facilitated this. I'm not saying that's all Day9 does, he is very charismatic and funny, but just to emphasize the overkill on *oh god they don't know shit about the game*

Imo a lot of this negative stuff comes from the fact that people focus on it too much, probably because of the culture that has developed around it, minor slips that shouldn't bother people seem to, disproportionately so, people saying they're too bad to be casting and have to mute the stream I mean seriously get it together it's ridiculous.

In terms of room for improvement camera work could use a great deal I strongly agree on that, I think they are scared to jump around too much for fear of being annoying but I'd like to see them drop out of a battle for 1or2 seconds just to update on the harass situations a bit more. I also picked up on the aversion to looking at the camera which became disconcerting (moreso once I saw it mentioned ).
http://www.twitch.tv/sybar1te Sybarite#2581 - add me for Heroes games. .Play Hots and Overwatch currently. Feel free to add.
shiNe.
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada120 Posts
August 28 2010 09:11 GMT
#134
Hmm.. Well, you know how hard it is to be casting against day9 and JP? Day9 is probably the most entertaining/informative caster in the world (maybe better than tasteless??? hmm?? lol). Trying to say that HD/husky are not as good as him and JP is obvious because day9 is awesome. But yeah I guess HD and husky were a let down, they seemed nervous
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
August 28 2010 09:13 GMT
#135
dammm they switch stream in the middle... We want Day9 not HD and Husky...

Did CatZ survive that attack?
Kage
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
India788 Posts
August 28 2010 09:28 GMT
#136
You know Im listening to Gretorp vs Silver by Husky and HD after sleeping last night and they aren't bad with the flow. The analysis is missing but Husky's doing a darn good job for being a first timer at a LAN.
HeIios
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2523 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 09:36:33
August 28 2010 09:36 GMT
#137
On August 28 2010 17:27 Kage wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

You know I am a talk show enthusiast (some day I'd like to have a show) and here's what I have learned from my observations. This could be taken as constructive feedback and if you disagree don't go all "motherfucka you don't know shit" just say you disagree and why.

To summarise. I think Husky and HD need work but they aren't terrible at all, they just need to keep some pointers in mind. And JP looks so good because he's with Day[9] first off and secondly is a Diamond league player who analyses his game (as was evident in his podcast).

I posted this analysis in my blog if someone doesn't want to read through the whole thing here.

The Flow
In any talk show you'll see that the most important thing is the flow of the conversation. Certain masters have it within them to keep people entertained by constantly talking. However the only way to make this seem unnatural is to talk in the story flow. That is either building up a previous thread and adding new insights or to pick up a new interjection and tie it in. Because every story has a beginning and ending and involves high points of drama.

This was evident with Day[9] and not so much with JP. Day9 picks up a story while they were waiting for the audience and then ties it back to the game. It also has a lot to do with being very comfortable in front of the camera. Which HD and Husky seem to lack. So point here is to
either think of the flow before hand (eg:- I will start with talking about the map, then some interesting thing i saw in a replay, then end it with what this guy did different and what is coming up next or what could be interesting in this map or different matchups on this map).

You can see how much experience plays a factor here because DJWheats a master of this. His flow is so good you almost think he knows Starcraft 2 through in and out but if you observe carefully you'll see he pauses to let the other player offer insight because they know more than him. The tag-teaming part is very important here which is a thing HD and Husky aren't quite getting. They go silent together, they don't compliment each other on humour or flow (explained below). But nothing's terrible, just needs practice.

The Humour
Humour, in conversation (and in dating) is a vital element. If you cannot be funny, you cannot succeed. This doesn't mean you start in with yo mama jokes. You gauge the audience and then supplement your commentary accordingly.

The thing with Husky and HD is that they are very game specific joke tellers. They use units and very specific inner jokes to highlight something funny. Day[9] and Tasteless (who is a master of this btw) use jokes that humanise the situation a lot more. They can instantly relate it to something funny outside the game and hence appear to be more than just game-nerds.

The Analysis
This is the key difference between both the teams. Day[9] has very very strategic insights and since he's a great player is able to quickly distinguish what the player is going to do and then explain why or why not the player is doing what he is doing.

On contrast Tasteless emphasises on the humour part but doesn't lay out a strategic plan. He does a better job explaining the current status of the game, as opposed to the future path that the players are going to take. This is what Husky and HD fall into the in game right now thinking.

Artosis is a master in this analysis game. He is not funny but recognises humour quickly. He'd pass as an intelligent guy but not a charismatic guy. But if you want to really "learn" the game you need a guy like Artosis. If you want to stay entertained you need a guy like Tasteless. Day9's almost perfectly in between and hence he's so good.

The Mechanics

You can't offer insight into a game if you haven't played it yourself at the highest level. Talking about flanking and back door entry, macro micro supply blocking etc etc are all things you know when you play enough. I don't want to comment on that part but from what I saw Husky and HD clearly don't play the game at the highest level. You can't talk about muta micro or building positioning importance if you don't know about it. This was again a tactic that Day9 uses to one up the competition.

Chill btw is very good at this too along with the fact that his flow and humour are very very good.

That's not saying much that toss that played nadagast was terrible for an 800 diamond player so this is not their fault.

The Camera Angle and looks

This is something I read. But if you look weird and scrubby then you are mentally (and subconsciously) perceieved to be inferior. Im not calling anyone out on looks cause hey that's genetic. And we all dont think we look good anyway. But I'd suggest taking a good angle to show your face to the camera at whenever you talk. That's why you'll almost always see models pose to the right or left and show part of their profile when they take pictures and not a frontal assault. This is esp true of fat guys (like me) to take note of.

This is no ones fault but the camera man's to find out what looks good and then relay it. It wouldn't help husky to comb his hair a bit and appear neater (pushing your hair back and giving it a wet look perhaps).

Voice Modulation
The second most important thing after the flow is the voice modulation. Day9s just really gifted in the department and has improved with his training of his dailies. In research there is a perfect pitch or vocal tone that human beings have that are instantly melodious to hear. That's why when someone sounds like a tin drum you are instantly put off because their base resonant vibration of their pitch is hurting to the hears. But it's also tied in with the image to a large extent (ever found a super hot woman talking like a man hotter than a super hot woman talking in a softer tone?) of how you appear to be.

Tasteless goes in thinking hes a pimp and knowing hes going to come out as one. There's that confidence that translates into charisma. Artosis knows he cant match that so he goes in as a professor. It boils down to your style really and Day9 picks up the standup style while JP knows his role as Watson (or Robin).

Husky and HD unfortunately haven't really figured out their style yet. Except to talk really fast and thus come across as no voice modulation. At one point when they scream about the raid on a protosses base my roommate comes screaming in saying why are you watching rape videos at 3 am (prolly my mistake for not having headphones). As the excitement builds up husky should prevent himself from squealing. That is really really unpleasant.

Look at Tasteless getting excited he shouts and does all that jing bang but doesn't resort to a twang pitch.

Stamina
This is where I think everyones on par. They are all doing a great job casting and keeping the energy and rythm you can really see they love what they are doing here.

And I fail here because I can't write anymore lol.



Very well made out post, even things that my subconscious picked up you put into words.
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
August 28 2010 09:37 GMT
#138
Husky. talks. too. much. He never stops lol.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
August 28 2010 09:43 GMT
#139
DJWheat and Chill would be a good duo to invite for some other time, I think. Very knowledgeable and entertaining.

I don't think Husky and HD are too bad though, I was very impressed with how much flow they would have at times and this being their first live event they still have a lot of room to improve.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1835 Posts
August 28 2010 09:44 GMT
#140
This is probably first time for Husky and HD to be in front of the crowd and televised so I'm not surprised they were nervous. But they did ok, I'm sure they'll get better at it.
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