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On August 29 2010 16:30 AmaZing wrote:
i personally thought they did rather well at live commentary then i expected. HDH i mean. D9 and JP i expected but you guys should really try casting one of your own games without break to find out how much harder it is before judging. Anyway, I enjoyed the whole atmosphere it brought to my room.
Pretty much this. I was going to write up some big thing about all the random stuff that makes casting work the way it does, but the best exercise for anyone who's looking to actually give some serious feedback about how the commentators performed is to try and do it yourself. This isn't a "LETS SEE YOU DO BETTER HUH" sort of nonsense argument, I actually recommend just giving it a try to see what it's like. Even if you just open up sound recorder and do an audio cast of some random game off sc2replayed or something, go do it. Listen to it afterward. You'll come to understand a lot (or possibly discover that you're amazing at it and thus should consider doing some yourself).
Couple short points off the top of my head:
- If the caster doesn't get excited, the game is not exciting. It doesn't matter what's going on in the game; your brain mentally parses audio as more important than video. This is why casters tend to "fake" excitement. It's also why they tend to announce how great it is that Player A is making drones or how brilliant Player B is for going 4gate stalkers.
- Co-casting is easier than solo casting in some ways but much harder in others. This is why, in a lot of commentary teams, one caster (usually one who's more accustomed to solo casting) tends to take the spotlight while another just backs them up. Everyone likes to criticize JP for being "that guy that talks sometimes when Day9 is casting", but I actually think he's pretty awesome at what he does. Its tough to really explain how amazing having a good backup can be. Compare Day9's performance on a solo cast to Day9's performance with JP backing him up. He does fine solo, but he's able to be much more potent and visceral with some backup.
- Filling time is tough. Generally speaking, the caster should be talking pretty much constantly (breaks shouldn't be longer than a couple seconds at most). Even when co-casting it can be tough not only thinking of something to fill time, but judging how much time you need to fill on the fly. End result: sometimes you have to cut yourself off because something more interesting is happening. It's really really REALLY tough to try and transition from how siege tanks are too expensive to mass off of one base so he needs to take his expansion soon if he OH MY GOD THERES A NYDUS WORM IN THE BACK OF HIS MAIN HE SEES IT BUT HIS ARMY IS SO FAR AWAY HES NOT GONNA MAKE IT IN TIME
That being said, I do have some constructive criticisms:
- Catchphrases and signature terms are fun and endearing (HUGE BLUNDER, etc) but they're easy to overuse. My subconscious will notice when you're saying it too much, which causes me to start thinking about how often you're saying your funny catchphrase, and as a result my attention is lost from the game. Those are the moments where you lose your audience and they decide to go do something else.
- I do hate how some casters have gotten this weird speech pattern where they do put emphasis on words that don't really need them as though everything is just confirming a suspicion that they did talk about previously even though they have not mentioned it before. It does start to get annoying after a while and does make me feel like I am talking to a camel or something because every sentence does have this weird hump in the middle.
"So here we go this is going to be game 1 which is on Lost Temple and we do see that we do have cross positions here as the terran player has spawned in the 3 o'clock position while the protoss player is on the other side of the map in the 9 o'clock position. So we see he is going for a standard 13 gateway which is the most common protoss opener so we will have to see if he goes for another gateway or if he does decide to get his cybernetics core first..." yeah, that drives me nuts.
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This thread went from MLG caster feedback to MLG caster bashing
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they're fine
i'm not the biggest husky hd fan but they did their jobs and it was their first live event (in front of a crowd) so obviously they had jitters. i think hd and husky videos are really good for newer players, i know all my new sc2 friends like husky and watch his videos regularly, whereas i think day9 is more of the comedian/indepth guy. seriously his standup is badass
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On August 29 2010 18:46 DarkspearTribe wrote:
This thread went from MLG caster feedback to MLG caster bashing
While some posts are definately centered around bashing some of them while promoting their own favorite caster, quite a few of em do give decent feedback that should be considered for the next broadcasts. The post above yours is a good example.
It'll only serve our own enjoyment of the casts to give them some things to improve upon for the future.
That said, I hope they won't set a specific team of casters just yet. I guess it's obvious that Day9 will have to be included in all future events, but the other spot(s) should still very much stay fair game for all of them. If MLG doesn't want to hire 4 casters each time (understandably so), take Day + one of them for one event each and see how it plays out. It was a nice preview to see them all cast one set of games together, but it's definately not enough to base a long-term decision on I'd say.
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United States22883 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:06 Zaul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 18:46 DarkspearTribe wrote:
This thread went from MLG caster feedback to MLG caster bashing While some posts are definately centered around bashing some of them while promoting their own favorite caster, quite a few of em do give decent feedback that should be considered for the next broadcasts. The post above yours is a good example. It'll only serve our own enjoyment of the casts to give them some things to improve upon for the future.
See, I don't know that this is true. It's not like the comments in this thread are novel. There's at least 2 other megathreads where we've seen every single thing said in here before.
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Oh? My mistake then, I'm a hardcore lurker but I didn't particularly remember those. 
Well, at least here each caster will find some commentary about his own performance and they're apparently actively reading it too, which might serve to reinforce some points and to invalidate others, depending on the "general consensus" between all these threads.
Anyway, I enjoyed reading (some) people's opinion on the mixed caster-duos so I'm happy with this thread at least. 
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What is JP's reason for starting to cast? From what I gathered from the King of the Beta Hill and the State of the Game podcasts he is a former WoW player that did content for MLG for WoW, such as podcasts about arena. I assume that when MLG decided to get into Starcraft 2 they just assigned JP to be their SC2 community person, and that's why he ends up casting a lot of things. He's learning well and seems very commited to becoming a good caster, but does he even have any brood war experience? and is it wise of MLG to play safe with one of their own people when there might be better casters in the community? (think Chill, DJWheat)
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I think people overstate how good HDH are for 'newer' players or even people who are unfamiliar with SC2.
Basically it doesn't matter if a commentator is talking about pretty deep analytical stuff that Day9 likes. Rather it is how the commentary is presented. Someone unfamiliar with the game would be more drawn to Day and JP just because they worked much better together; they had a much better flow, could fill downtime with banter and had very clearly defined roles in their commentary. The end result is something that is much more professional sounding and listenable for people of any background and any skill level. The accuracy of the information or how much "gamesense" the commentator is showing don't come into it. If a new person likes the general 'tone' of what they are hearing they will be encouraged to learn more about it. Hearing some rambling from a bunch of nerds (and I don't want to be mean by saying that; we're all nerds here) does not encourage a person to stick around.
Look at TotalBiscuit; he does not have an incredibly deep understanding of the game (by his own admission) but he has a great casting voice and can keep people listening by providing a fun commentary that doesn't sound like he's trying to fill up space. HDH just can't really provide that; together or alone.
The thing that really strikes me about them is that they don't sound like they've improved from the early days of the beta which is kind of concerning. Maybe they have, I don't watch many of their videos nowadays, but it is kind of odd since they both love this game and are obviously very passionate about what they do. I will echo the statements that they worked better when paired with Day9 rather than each other. I think thats definitely more a case of their styles of commentating (which are quite similar) not meshing with each other.
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As was said several times already, I think that they were all good. I also think that Day9 has a lot more experience, and that shows a little bit. There is no doubt in my mind; however, that HD and Husky will keep getting better and better.
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United Kingdom35 Posts
ok, i saw this topic 2 days ago i said to myself m gonna read it another day but now this topic got 23 pages WTF ? can someone write me a short version ? i dont belive that at least 50% of post here are trolls :D
and my personal opinion, all the caster where great ! the olny monets the hole thing was inconsistent was when they had to talk about random thing because some game got delayed for whatever reson and believe me is not easy when u got a plan in ur head and sundenly u have to change it and talk about anything just to keep talking.
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Day9 JP Husky HD
I think they all did a great job. Husky and HD, more so HD, need to actually play the game more and actually know all the ins and outs and unit names, They also need better camera viewing and need to pay attention to mini map better. Day9 is just a seasoned vet, Husky and HD will get there one day. It's very early in sc2's life. JP is just... felt like Day9 overpowered him but he definitely pretty good.
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I love all the setup day9 and JP did. The troll masks, or day9's short standup. HD and Husky aren't bad, but need to work on their off-game talks more.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pgligysdU
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Day9 has over 10 years of experience. HD and Husky just started casting a few months ago during beta. Considering the amount of time between the two I think HD/Husky are amazing.
Yes, HD and Husky do need more practice. That doesn't mean they are bad. I think the MLG production staff caused more casting issues than the casters. The time between games and the lack of filler. They just leaned on the casters to kill time which isn't fair. Yeah Day9 can do it because he does a 45 minute show every day buy HD/Husky aren't use to that. They aren't that kind of casters, yet.
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I think the casters did an overall good job at mlg. The things I was displeased with was the presentation of casting.
We have Day9/JP/HD all in blazers trying to look semi professional (awesome!) Then we have husky who looks like he's 12 and his mommy didn't dress him that day; hair sticking up in the back, sweat shirt. Cmon now that's not professional at all.
I would like to see HD/Husky get a little more experience under their belts and instead try and avoid speaking at 9 million words a minute with every few moments having their tone rise as if something epic happens every game (e.g., OMG HE'S BUILDING A THOR!!!) and instead try and add more meaningful commentary to each game. You have to keep in mind that some people who aren't veterans at starcraft may want to watch MLG and more descriptions of what's going on might help rather than just saying what's on the screen.
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On August 29 2010 03:09 universalwill wrote:
i really don't like to be disrespectful, but hd and husky have absolutely no understanding of the game. i'm more tolerant of husky thank hd because husky's commentaries are more lighthearted and play-by-play than hd's analytical style. hd tries to be day9, but the problem is that hd's understanding of the game is about what you'd find in gold league. he makes a ton of incorrect calls, misses important details, sometimes he doesn't correctly call which player is ahead. obviously hd and husky are likable guys with a knack for casting, but they need to learn more about how the game works if they want to stay at the top of the commentary hill. it's simply annoying hearing them spouting false information to huge audiences filled with many lower level players who are going to believe them.
Really? No understanding of the game? So they don't know that drones collect minerals and buildings produce units? I guess that means you have absolutely no understanding of what these casters are saying than! And I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but this is the kind of hyperbolic trolling that tells me HDH haters are just trying to find a reason to show how hardcore they are.
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On August 29 2010 21:56 Bosscelot wrote:
I think people overstate how good HDH are for 'newer' players or even people who are unfamiliar with SC2.
Basically it doesn't matter if a commentator is talking about pretty deep analytical stuff that Day9 likes. Rather it is how the commentary is presented. Someone unfamiliar with the game would be more drawn to Day and JP just because they worked much better together; they had a much better flow, could fill downtime with banter and had very clearly defined roles in their commentary. The end result is something that is much more professional sounding and listenable for people of any background and any skill level. The accuracy of the information or how much "gamesense" the commentator is showing don't come into it. If a new person likes the general 'tone' of what they are hearing they will be encouraged to learn more about it. Hearing some rambling from a bunch of nerds (and I don't want to be mean by saying that; we're all nerds here) does not encourage a person to stick around.
Look at TotalBiscuit; he does not have an incredibly deep understanding of the game (by his own admission) but he has a great casting voice and can keep people listening by providing a fun commentary that doesn't sound like he's trying to fill up space. HDH just can't really provide that; together or alone.
The thing that really strikes me about them is that they don't sound like they've improved from the early days of the beta which is kind of concerning. Maybe they have, I don't watch many of their videos nowadays, but it is kind of odd since they both love this game and are obviously very passionate about what they do. I will echo the statements that they worked better when paired with Day9 rather than each other. I think thats definitely more a case of their styles of commentating (which are quite similar) not meshing with each other.
this guy said it a lot better than most in the past 20 pages
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Good commenting in a pair is often distinguished by the humorous side and the knowledge-based side. Unfortunately with the Day9+JP combo both sides seems to be represented exclusively by Day9.
I'd love to see Raelcun, TheGunRun and CatZ commenting live on a LAN-tournament btw. TheGunRuns soothing voice is actually awesome and casts with CatZ as the sidekick are truly insane funnieh! :D
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I think HD and Husky are fine. Yes there are things they should probably work on if they want to be "pros" and do it for a living legitimately, but right now they're still a couple of dudes who took up a mic.
Also, they are extremely entertaining for beginners and people who are just fans. One of my favorite things to hear is Husky calling out "STOOORM." People need to get a little bit off their high horse and be more supportive. JP has a professionalism about him, but not nearly as entertaining as either HD or Husky.
When you progress as a player a little bit more, you start leaning more towards Day9's commentary because of his analysis and communication skills.
As far as improvement, I agree, if HD and Husky don't improve, they'll always be just two dudes shouting, but if they do, it'll be awesome because they have a great chance to improve the community with their fanbase.
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HD and Husky will continue to improve, no doubt about that. It does take time to get adjusted and adapt to a new environment. If you don't believe me, look at every pro gamer who brings theirn on Keyboard/mouse and possibly PC just to get a bit of normality. Trying to shoutcasts games is diffucult and many times people only highlight the errors. Even professional sports announcers make the wrong calls when trying to do a play by play and pitch by pitch in baseball. As long as they don't detract from the game and offer knowledge to a wide audience, it is fine.
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EPT
