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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
but on topic, i totally agree. while elitism isn't good having a worthless opinion isn't going to contribute much to a discussion either. i don't want team liquid to be elitist jerks though, more like arena junkies. people are still biased on arena junkies but at least their opinions aren't completely off. elitist jerks is more like ask this question we'll give you a mathematical response, but that's impossible for sc. | ||
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barrykp
Ireland174 Posts
Nevertheless the elitism is disappointing  . It reminds me of the kind of personal attacks and Ad Hominem attacks that are the staple of WoW forums. The culture of argument from authority is bad."You aren't a 1200+ diamond player? Well then sorry you don't get to voice your opinion. If you do we'll just tell you that you suck and therefore anything you say is wrong." | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:19 Saracen wrote: If you are at all familiar with Brood War and iCCup rankings, here's what it would look like: Bronze: I play B.net custom games. I can give the computer a good fight. Silver: I play Fastest Possible Map Ever. Gold: I play BGH and some low maps. I know who Boxer is. Platinum: Computer (E) rank Low diamond (~300): D- Mid diamond (~600): D High diamond (~900): D+ through C Top diamond (~1200): B That ranking is so bad it is funny. Well i guess that White-Ra is just your average B Iccup no name and TLO is a D+ player. It is almost as bad than Testie's WGT ranking where everyone below A is either a retard or a monkey. | ||
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
On August 25 2010 08:26 3clipse wrote: Yes, I know. It's still an invalid comparison. No its not, its true in most cases ofc they are some exeptions. think about it its a new game top players mb played (beta counted too) like 5 months (i dont remember when beta started) if u played sc1 5 months u would be like D+/C- mb ( players who were really good in sc1 probaply know more of game than others who played sc2 sametime as them) ok so those medi diamond players know about sc2 about as much D+ players in iccup knows about sc1 (unless they made diamond by only cheesing then they know about as much as D- players know about sc1) | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
I think everyone has to remember what Diamond represents. According to sc2ranks, Blizzard has decided that Diamond league is equal to approximately 6% of the laddering SC2 population. 6% is a LOT of people. Being in the top 6% of a game played by millions doesn't really mean a hell of a lot. Realistically, being in the top 1% doesn't really mean anything either, other than that you can probably beat your friends. Only a really miniscule percent of the player pool will ever be truly competitive at a tournament level, and those are the guys whose opinions we should value (as OP pointed out). It's hard to accurately guess what percentage of BW players ICCUP represents, but it's certainly not 6%. If I had to pull a number out of thin air I would imagine ICCUP probably consists of less than 0.5% of the BW population (that is, less than 1 out of every 200 players who ever laddered BW would play on ICCUP). Of that group, only a much smaller number would ever achieve B- or higher. To draw an analogy, Diamond league is like a college basketball league...although all of the players need a certain requisite level of skill to make it into the league, only a tiny tiny percent of them are actually good enough to go pro. My point is that going around posting "Diamond players suck" isn't particularly helpful. We already know that being in the top 6% of players doesn't mean anything, but perhaps this thread will help to put things in perspective for some people. | ||
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
On August 25 2010 18:26 Boblion wrote: That ranking is so bad it is funny. Well i guess that White-Ra is just your average B Iccup no name and TLO is a D+ player. It is almost as bad than Testie's WGT ranking where everyone below A is either a retard or a monkey. Only so bad its funny is how well you understanded this. It doesnt mean that they are B or D+ players in SC1 it means that if they knew as much they know about sc2 in sc1 and played sc1 they would be those ranked players and like i said there are exeptions ofc u cant assume that every single player in expample in low diamond have same knowledge as other who are same ranked and TLO probaply have talent and knowledge to reach top diamond. And really u CANT claim that someone who played this very new game few months (even he were the best player there is) knows sc2 as good as sc1 progamers who played sc1 10 years know about sc1. The reason why even sc1 players reach top rankings so easily is that there are so many noobs who havent even played sc1 or played it years ago. theres even ppl who doesent have much experience in rts games. and no matter what ppl say playing sc1 gives you small advantage over players who didnt even tho games are very different | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
I'll be serious here in saying I could never play Brood War properly due to the limitations put in place by my mindset and some nof the control options baffled me along with some of the hotkeys. Where as in Starcraft 2 these have all been ironed out and made better meaning I'm better at the game than I was at Brood War, just because someone was D at Brood War doesn't mean they'll be bad at Starcraft 2 and just because someone was A at Starcraft, it doesn't mean they're going to be really good at SC2 either. Using Brood War as an example to discredit people opinions on a new game where not even the "pros" are good at it yet (well properly anyway, nobody is, it's a new game!) really annoys me. | ||
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
On August 25 2010 18:55 Qikz wrote: Can I make a request? Please can people stop reffering to iCCUP ranks when it comes to SC2? I was only a D in Starcraft but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to be good at SC2. Starcraft 1 was a completely different kettle of fish when it comes to how much people may have played so far, or how much better people are at the game. I'll be serious here in saying I could never play Brood War properly due to the limitations put in place by my mindset and some nof the control options baffled me along with some of the hotkeys. Where as in Starcraft 2 these have all been ironed out and made better meaning I'm better at the game than I was at Brood War, just because someone was D at Brood War doesn't mean they'll be bad at Starcraft 2 and just because someone was A at Starcraft, it doesn't mean they're going to be really good at SC2 either. Using Brood War as an example to discredit people opinions on a new game where not even the "pros" are good at it yet (well properly anyway, nobody is, it's a new game!) really annoys me. plz read before posting.. no one said that being D cant make u good player in sc2.. seriously so many ppl take just a look at OP and dont even read and start complaining without knowing what ranking reffery really means... | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
And I don't think that people don't have the proper respect, maybe they are just lacking facts or it is not very well explained and so they disagree with top players. I think shutting a large part of the community away from active discussion and dialog is not very good. But I 100% agree with the I am a bla Diamond player. I think it is on the one side good to know sometimes on what level someone is playing when he is posting something bronze or platinum ? But some use it just to make their point. I mean if you explain something it should make sense and the conclusion should come out of the explanation. The points are not the thing that gives validity, its whats written and how it is written. | ||
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Kexx
Germany240 Posts
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
On August 25 2010 06:15 iEchoic wrote: In fact, SC1 is the simplest, most kiddy pc RTS I've literally ever played. It got popular because it was accessible to all, similar to the way Halo did. User was warned for this post YES YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Being an astronaut is really simple too just mostly sitting and clicking some buttons and mb fix something if something get broken really ez.. Also building nuclear bomb is really simple just put some parts together and done! easiest things iv done in my life besides breathing... | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On August 25 2010 20:13 oskuboi wrote: YES YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Being an astronaut is really simple too just mostly sitting and clicking some buttons and mb fix something if something get broken really ez.. Also building nuclear bomb is really simple just put some parts together and done! easiest things iv done in my life besides breathing... While he worded that horribly, your analogy is downright terrible. Starcraft doesn't seem complex before you actually get into it a bit, there are less resources than other games, it has less units than a lot of games. That's not where the complexity lies in Starcraft, and he obviously didn't know that as he's barely played it. But what the fuck does that have to do with constructing a nuke? | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On August 25 2010 18:26 Boblion wrote: That ranking is so bad it is funny. Well i guess that White-Ra is just your average B Iccup no name and TLO is a D+ player. It is almost as bad than Testie's WGT ranking where everyone below A is either a retard or a monkey. that's probably just because they don't play that many ladder games so they haven't played enough to get a crapload of points like other players who grind ladder even jaedong or flash would be D+ rank if they didn't actually play many iccup ladder games. it's not about judging how many points every single player has at any given time, it's the amount of points they would actually peak at, assuming they play a ton of ladder games. | ||
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KezseN
Singapore1450 Posts
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UFO
582 Posts
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
On August 25 2010 20:19 vyyye wrote: While he worded that horribly, your analogy is downright terrible. Starcraft doesn't seem complex before you actually get into it a bit, there are less resources than other games, it has less units than a lot of games. That's not where the complexity lies in Starcraft, and he obviously didn't know that as he's barely played it. But what the fuck does that have to do with constructing a nuke? Im just saying that putting like that it sounds really simple like some ppl maid sc1 sounding like simple when in reality its not | ||
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Aelfric
Turkey1496 Posts
On August 25 2010 20:24 UFO wrote: I am platinum player and I was C on icc. i am damned right now :D | ||
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Deyster
Jordan579 Posts
My issue with the ladder is that you can't have multiple accounts for ranking. I play random and I trash most of my opponents at Platinum level if I get Terran (my main race :D) while I struggle against low gold level players as Zerg (I have like 2 BO that I can perform okay'ish and if they mess with my BO I usually panic and get way behind.). Either way, I think that ranking needs improving, cause if you rank up as random and you're not as good with all 3 races as you are with your main, you'll always get either super easy games or super hard games. | ||
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