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On August 25 2010 18:35 FuRong wrote:
I agree with msot of what OP said, I'm a ~600 Diamond player and I'm terrible. Most of the people I play (low to mid Diamond) are not that good either, even though I still lose to a lot of them.
I think everyone has to remember what Diamond represents. According to sc2ranks, Blizzard has decided that Diamond league is equal to approximately 6% of the laddering SC2 population. 6% is a LOT of people. Being in the top 6% of a game played by millions doesn't really mean a hell of a lot. Realistically, being in the top 1% doesn't really mean anything either, other than that you can probably beat your friends. Only a really miniscule percent of the player pool will ever be truly competitive at a tournament level, and those are the guys whose opinions we should value (as OP pointed out).
It's hard to accurately guess what percentage of BW players ICCUP represents, but it's certainly not 6%. If I had to pull a number out of thin air I would imagine ICCUP probably consists of less than 0.5% of the BW population (that is, less than 1 out of every 200 players who ever laddered BW would play on ICCUP). Of that group, only a much smaller number would ever achieve B- or higher. To draw an analogy, Diamond league is like a college basketball league...although all of the players need a certain requisite level of skill to make it into the league, only a tiny tiny percent of them are actually good enough to go pro.
My point is that going around posting "Diamond players suck" isn't particularly helpful. We already know that being in the top 6% of players doesn't mean anything, but perhaps this thread will help to put things in perspective for some people.
Math fail? How is being in the top 6% out of a population of millions not impressive? It doesn't mean you're pro but it certainly isn't unimpressive.
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I'm wondering wwhy you people find this being elitinism. I cant really see that. Me not being a BW player, started with sc2 from the bottom down (plat player) Think that all that was made in the original post, is 100% accurate. There is a difference between the high level players, and the (posers i'll call him that) I'd say give this game some time. More people will come up, and actually reach a high caliber. Winning is fun, but how you win is more important.
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This is complete bullshit because I was a D in iCCup and I can't get out of Silver, even though I practice all the time with Diamond level players and not get my ass kicked.
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On August 25 2010 20:34 Deyster wrote:
I really never cared for ranking in any game. I play this game to be competitive against friends, I really don't care about how I do against random players. So I really don't care that much for what league I'm in.
My issue with the ladder is that you can't have multiple accounts for ranking. I play random and I trash most of my opponents at Platinum level if I get Terran (my main race :D) while I struggle against low gold level players as Zerg (I have like 2 BO that I can perform okay'ish and if they mess with my BO I usually panic and get way behind.).
Either way, I think that ranking needs improving, cause if you rank up as random and you're not as good with all 3 races as you are with your main, you'll always get either super easy games or super hard games.
Do what I do, buy an additional account. I plan to buy a zerg account in a few weeks.
I'm very surprised how close in ranking my Protoss and Terran is, I thought my Protoss would be slightly stronger, but I guess my Terran has improved.
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The best player is the one that plays to win, without inventing additional rules, while 1baseallincheese might apparently require less skill to do, it's just an opening and usually those builds evolve into having a transition out of them, thus not being cheese anymore.
I think it's totally obvious that players have to adapt to what the other is doing in a Sc2 game and i know even Platinum players do that. I don't see the point of the OP.
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Omg this is so lol! I dont play SC2 but i have a good sense of these strategy games, and not too lame over all, but im not pro, so i would consider myself into Gold league... and i know who boxer is :D My first sc hero, its so well hit, gj. Also, i would support a nice conversation between pro's, even as a(n invitational) forum, would serve us well.
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I could never break D if I played games in ICCUP (As in keep it) but I am still Diamond with 400 points so your list makes sense to me
Oh and invite only threads could be sweet! (If only they would not drown in the regular ol` shitstream :O)
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True. I was C+ with good stats on ICCUP probably could beat B-/B and now i am ~1200 points in diamond as a random player. I think i could still improve some understanding of the game because sometimes i find compositions of enemy's army too strong ^^
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Pretty much agree with 99% of what the poster said!.
Pro discussion thread +1
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I would personally really love to see balance topics where only top players may post.
I don't think it's disgraceful to the community, and feel like most people can learn a lot from it.
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Being an almost 600 Diamond random player with poor macro and no fixed BO, I totally agree! I just play! Some guys out there compete: some thinking outside the box and winning tournaments, others following.
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dont know why people think that their opinion is the truth O.o nice topic -_-
i disagree cause u cant compere and i doubt u got the knowledge to make such a statement either.
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As a platinium level player, I agree. Althought I don't represent my leagues phylosophy of my current league.
I actually understand quite alot about the game ( I understand about strategy, therefore about the game) but I'm unable to keep up mechanics wise. I know what I have to do, but I'm just unable to do so because the lack of practice.
Playing in plat is quite disheartening, most of the strats I have to recon with are cheap cheeses, all-ins, scvs rushes, one timming push, ect.
It's a shame, because I can't really practice what I need, because everyone I play against is trying to get a 9min win. 
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On August 25 2010 02:30 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:29 Keitzer wrote:
so.... this "equivalent" has been determined based on blizzard's inability to rank people?
good post, jw how you came up with this.... He made it up, that's how he came up with it. But he's old school so we should just assume he's right and not think about it at all ourselves.
I dont know if you play sc2, but it seems that you are not aware how many diamond players suck.
Not all of them, but I have to say that many of them think they are good because of diamond. Guess what, current ranking is just historical footstep, it doesnt garantee you anything.
Best exsample: Half of diamond players in 2vs2 random have no sense about game situation, They think they are gonna win when they push. Although me as silver, i could see that enemy's army is bigger than ours. We pushed anyway, he blamed me not making any zealots -.- (against heavy marauder + speedling)
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I was D/D+ on ICCUP and played about 200 SCII games until now (incl. beta), still I am in gold league in 1v1. I don't feel like it is that easy to reach diamond as many people suggest. Well, maybe I am really that weak but I don't feel like diamond is granted if you are a D-Level player...
I would enjoy seeing a elite-forum where only invited people are allowed to post, as long as we noobs are allowed to read it  .
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On August 25 2010 03:29 Reason.SC2 wrote:It is a fallacy to argue based on authority but there's a reason why fallacies are so effective in real-life argumentation theory: they are usually indicative of a general trend. So to say chance is you should listen to a university math professor rather than a bag boy, when you ask what is the square root of 225, is pretty reasonable. If you tried to live your life based on deductive reasoning only, avoiding all fallacious thought, you wouldn't even be able to get out of bed in the morning lol.
The argument of authority only applies to instances where the authority is not valid. For instance if someone were to quote a famous astrophysicist on his opinions of religion that would be a argument from authority. If you were to ask the astrophysicist on his speculations of the trajectory of a meteorites, which happens to be his specialty, it would not be a fallacy.
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WE DEMAND ICCUP RATING SYSTEM!!!
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On August 25 2010 21:40 GrazerRinge wrote:
WE DEMAND ICCUP RATING SYSTEM!!!
Wouldn't change a single thing atm except for the guys that are stuck in a to low league...
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You wanna know the truth about diamond league?
It's the top 6.5-7% of players on the ladder.
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Just to add a little, I just played a PvP on steppes where the guy built a whopping 3 probes for a total of 9, with one in my base, and 2 gates... It didnt work out too well for him. We are both diamond 700+
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EPT
