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imbecile
563 Posts
And I'm a lazy fuck. I don't believe in hard work. I believe in preparing so well and knowing what you're doing so that the actual work (or play) comes easy. But I do know that before going into the game for real I will need at least one baseline in every matchup, a reference to compare against whenever I meet something I haven't seen yet, so I'm not lost and know where to adapt. | ||
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1smore
Finland2 Posts
Your statements should be viewed as one of the many and each post should be evaluated only by the current content. If a thread claim is wrong the thread maker as well as forum reader should be made aware of that. Tricky part is not to discourage the original poster. Every once in a while there will be some forum lurker who has a solution for prevailing questing that puzzles the liquid community. The core problem is information flood. How do we make ideas better known and bad ideas less visible? Obviously featuring something is good. However this doesn’t apply at long forum threads where a good suggestion at page 63 probably slips away from most people. Even this thread seems to expand lengths were nobody reads every post anymore. Maybe more universal post rating system in the future? (A bit beside the point I was trying to make) As a summary 1.Evaluate posts and threads only by their content!!! 2.create/improve the post rating system so that good suggestions are more accessible | ||
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SkeweredFromEarToEye
Canada19 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:16 Anzat wrote: There should be an adjustment to your league descriptions for zerg players. For example, platinum: "I'm a terran and know how to tie my shoes, or I'm a zerg who understands how to scout and counter several tricky P/T builds while constantly balancing difficult macro decisions and APM-consuming mechanics." This. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
As for the 500+ diamond thing (that's where I am though not with all in builds) I find it important to note what level of play the post is addressed to. For example if I say I am using x build as a 500 diamond player and it is workig that does not mean it can hold off a perfect 3-5 barracks reaper build simply because at 500 diamond I haven't met players who could micro reapers and keep up their micro simultaneously. This means that at my level speedlings will catch the reapers (or distract the player so much that he loses in a macro game). Obviously the advice/build/idea is not going to be useful to higher level players (or at least it is unlikely to be without some modification) but for a platinum or lower player it can present solutions that are more feasible than "copy what Idra did". Another example would be the builds seen at certain levels. I play Zerg and know that what I need to account for against toss is 2 gate, 4 gate and void ray. That's it because 500 diamond toss do over 95% of those strategies. Now obviously as a more reactive player if I scout a forge fast expand I will try to adapt, but that is not one of the builds I am used to and my openings can ommit it pretty safely. I very much agree with the OP regarding types of players and the value of their opinions. Players who have a reactive/adaptable style need to know more about the game than the ones going for hit or miss build orders (arguably this could mean Zerg need better overall knowledge of the game as they are the more reactive race). I try (and clearly don't succeed enough :p ) to have a general opening and then change according to what I scout. Right now that is a speedling opening (13 gas 12 pool usually) and a 20ish expand (except against Zerg) if it seems safe. However when I see it has big issues with a certain all in (in this case a 4 gate) I need to tweek it and time my scouting and options properly. This is what makes the metagame evolve. The conclusions and analysis that I come to as a 500 diamond player could save a platinum player some trial and error (and I will try advice from diamond players of roughly my level or higher). I think those posts are important to lower players progressing and not to be confused with the people trying to reeaducate the pros (which is silly). | ||
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B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
I'm a ~500 Diamond Zerg right now. I definitely don't feel like I deserve the title of "Diamond." Yet, even when I play like shit (by my D level BW standards), I'm still easily beating players of similar rank. I think it's mainly the players who come into SC2 without having played much BW who think being Diamond is really good when in fact, even a sub-mediocre BW player like myself sees nothing but rank inflation. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:34 1smore wrote: The core problem is information flood. How do we make ideas better known and bad ideas less visible? Obviously featuring something is good. However this doesn’t apply at long forum threads where a good suggestion at page 63 probably slips away from most people. Even this thread seems to expand lengths were nobody reads every post anymore. Maybe more universal post rating system in the future? (A bit beside the point I was trying to make) Systems that allow people (or moderators) to vote posts up or down and display or hide posts based on their scores might be suitable for this. I particularly like the Slashdot system, which invites readers to moderate based on their tenure on the site, posting history, and other factors. | ||
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EppE
United States221 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:20 Chill wrote: We discussed this internally for quite some time. I would love to see that too. Look how MasterAsia's thread turned into people calling him a n00b. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Now you somehow are all part of those 7% and ask yourself how can this be? Maybe because SC2 finally adressed the masses and quite a lot of ppl are playing it. And not a 15 years old game, which is only played by a few freaks who barely noticed, whe have a new millenium... Since TL.net has mostly only those old BW-Freaks, it is no surprise, that they have a headstart over all the others... But still... they are the Top 7%. I mean, the general SC2 playing population is not really represented by TL. 70% (more or less at the end of the skill scale) do not even care about a stupid website, they don't want to study the game, they want to play it... Of the remaining players maybe 50% sometimes check a few strategies and some chitchat here in the forums, but never ever registered... And of those, who are registered, a big chunk never ever posts in such threads... So all this whining about "the ranksystem is so messed up" is kinda bullshit... It is not like Platin-Bronze leagues would be empty... They are full... and much bigger then those tiny Diamondleagues... | ||
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Mutarisk
United States153 Posts
I believe that a xyz diamond Zerg is more often more knowledgeable than a xyz diamond T or P. As the reactionary race, Zerg players must understand opponents timings/build orders/knowing when to expand/knowing when to make an army/knowing when to power drones. Also, it is more critical for Zerg to scout well. Terran and Protoss can usually learn a few builds that work well (4 gate, reaper into rax pushes), and oftentimes feel all in (meaning that if the push is defended, they're pretty much way behind). As T and P, a solid build order and execution can get you into high diamond. As Z, I think you need a great deal of knowledge and understanding of the game. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Although the idea that getting 1200 is equal to B rank is way off. The difficulty of each cannot be compared linearly. | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
Ranks are all we have though so there's not really any other way to back what you're saying than with your rank. I personally play Zerg simply because they're reactive. I don't want to follow a BO, I want to do a safe opening and then I want to adapt to my opponent. I hate feeling like my BO did all the work. | ||
Chill
Calgary25993 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:49 Piy wrote: Diamond is completely meaningless, I thought most people knew that now. Although the idea that getting 1200 is equal to B rank is way off. The difficulty of each cannot be compared linearly. It's not being compared linearly, it's being averaged. | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:28 Dragonsven wrote: Yet another post describing why diamond players are not good and only old school players should comment on anything. I was expecting a rule on post count by the end. You should realize this kind of elitism does not work and you will end up driving all the new posters away once the initial boost from SC2 ends. This. The comparisons are getting stale. | ||
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Fries
United States124 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:39 B1nary wrote: Totally agree with OP. I think they need to make it much harder to get into Platinum and Diamond to avoid skill inflation like we're seeing now. It feels like there's too much of a gap between low Diamond and top Diamond (larger than, say, between low Plat and top Plat). I'm a ~500 Diamond Zerg right now. I definitely don't feel like I deserve the title of "Diamond." Yet, even when I play like shit (by my D level BW standards), I'm still easily beating players of similar rank. I think it's mainly the players who come into SC2 without having played much BW who think being Diamond is really good when in fact. I think it's more you're comparing yourself to very good players whereas the ladder is comparing you to everyone that is now playing this game. Compared to the top 30% of the game, yeah I'm probably pretty bad, but compared to everyone I may be above average. I mean think of how many people are probably playing this game right now that build maybe 10 workers and then just leave it at that. Those people are part of the ladder too, so if you're the top 20% at any point in time then it's really probably going to look the same no matter what you call the rankings. | ||
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digiwaffles
58 Posts
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CosmicAC
United States238 Posts
 . A new "sc2 only" 600 diamond player playing brood war would certainly get stomped in D level. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
If I work my ass off and after a few hundred games of improving my mediocre mechanics and gaining in-depth, adaptable knowledge of opening builds, midgame options and transitions, late-game strategies, etc. etc. for each matchup... Everyone should ignore my opinion because I am a lowly plat player or low diamond OR b) Rank doesn't matter so don't disregard any opinion based on rank??? | ||
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Scorcher2k
United States802 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:47 mahrgell wrote: ppl somehow forget here, that Diamond is 7% of the playerpopulation only... Now you somehow are all part of those 7% and ask yourself how can this be? Maybe because SC2 finally adressed the masses and quite a lot of ppl are playing it. And not a 15 years old game, which is only played by a few freaks who barely noticed, whe have a new millenium... Since TL.net has mostly only those old BW-Freaks, it is no surprise, that they have a headstart over all the others... But still... they are the Top 7%. Exactly this. If you played on iccup then you are a starcraft enthusiast. It doesn't matter what rank you were. As the general population gets better at this game you will find that Diamond holds up to your personal standards more but until then realize how small of a percentage of players are actually in this division. Also, I really don't know anything about qxc but that quote could be taken as being very elitest. I mean who really cares if bronze players challenge what you have to say when you're a top player. You ignore them and the other good players ignore them and you carry on a meaningful conversation. Do you really want to turn this into a constant WoW arena thread where someone is viewed on the armory before their post is read just to see if it is worth reading. This all seems very childish. | ||
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Calidus
150 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:00 Saracen wrote: Yup. I assure you that the people who want TL to just be accessible to high level players, or want TL to be "Brood War old school" are a small and perhaps too vocal minority. The vast majority of TL wants and embraces new users. The problem lies when new users step out of line because they perhaps don't know TL's history or culture. It's a problem of respect. Respect the moderators and respect the known players because they have done a hell of a lot for the community, the community that the new user is just starting to be a part of. Another Stupid Newbie Here Their are other forums that strike a balance between Elitist and crap filled impossible to read(aka arenajunkies.com). One of the ways like QXC said is a "vet" forum for Stratagy(but keep the old Strat for us newbies to talk newbie Stratagies in) which is Open for all to read but requires permission to post in which the TL would have to decide what to use like current rating in sc2(not a terribly good indicator but not the worst either), How long have you been on the forums?, etc etc. For example(numbers need tweaked but u get the point): maybe a 900point diamond player who has had a forum account for 6months can post on the vet forums or a 600 point diamond player how has had a forum account for 1 year can post on it. As a reader i would really enjoy see somethig like what QXC said implemented even if it was just for a short test period. (the overhead to set this type of system up might be a pain, the site engineers are going to love QXC for this one) | ||
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