EPTOn August 25 2010 02:19 Saracen wrote:
Low diamond (~300): D-
Low diamond (~300): D-
spot on!
The Truth About Diamond League - Page 10
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nextstep
Canada705 Posts
spot on! | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
Below that there is not enough data yet and most people are really bad regardless of points or league. | ||
Arrian
United States889 Posts
While I think in essence you're right, I would say the problem is more or less sorting the good from the bad and not that certain groups don't know what they're talking about. I know you're not saying that '300-900 are retards, everybody else is okay' but that's not exactly clear. There are plenty of mid level diamond players who do know what they're talking about and are held back by mechanics and other reasons superficial to their understanding (i.e their success is a function of their understanding). | ||
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argie
Croatia31 Posts
But I cannot agree with the statement that all lower players are dumbasses or that we only "know how to select units and make them attack.", "know only build orders" and similar. I spend almost all my "computer game time" studying SC2. I watched probably over 1000 replays (if not significantly more) since few days into beta, watched numerous VoDs, livestreams, reading, etc. I also NEVER played SC1 multiplayer on bnet, but I know almost all it's history except maybe last 2 years. Now, it might not reflect on my standings because practice time is severely limited and of course I lose. And I know that I cannot put into practice most of my knowledge because of lack of overall gametime. But I can with 100% certainty say that I know a lot about the game and that I understand the mechanics really well... from simple game stuff like units, buildings, terrain to a bit more like counters, scouting, understanding of map control, to the final thing that is micro and macro. Again, my micro and macro are not really good and I stated the reason why but I understand the concept completely. I will NEVER make a stupid attack move in the choke or similar and just let units do their thing and die or just sends mutas to their death from 2 turrets. I will inject larvae all the time, focus fire when needed, not let the resources build up, carefully place a building in my natural on kulas for ex to block hellions, carefully spend money on what I need, scout and adjust, etc, etc. While again, sometimes I just get lost and make a stupid move but that is lack of gametime and not the lack of game knowledge. However, since I am not high in the ladder and don't have big gametime under my belt, I don't go around and trying to be a smartass. And since I play Zerg 95% of the time I won't go into T/P threads that I know many people know better. Anyway, I just wanted to say that not all lower league players are dumbasses who hold their mouse with one hand and dick with other. I cannot play 20 games a day. There is other stuff to be done and it is summer. | ||
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HyperDeath
United States64 Posts
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Maedi
United States477 Posts
Although aside from .. what, organization? Blizzard designed battle.net to have so many mini-ladders to make feel people much more than what they really are. This "Mid-diamond player" or "900 point diamond" mentality does better compared to "#45,5235 diamond player here, offering my divine insight". Stroke the ego, please the masses, gain the monies | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
The mistake that a lot of people make is extrapolating from "elite players can just drop an opinion and it's respected because they're better than everyone else" to "i can drop my opinion and you should respect it because im better than you -- i'm diamond and you're gold". That just doesn't work. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
It seems like a lot of you are missing the implications of this thread. First, regardless of points, there are two types of players. Players who want to win and players who want to better understand the game. I am saying that this exists even up to what many people consider to be "high diamond," while still existing in lower leagues. The problem comes when people with a certain number of points start using that as evidence for their advice, even though that says nothing about their understanding of the game. Second, people like Qxc, HuK, Sheth, pretty much all of the top players frequent TL. They actually visit it a lot. But they don't post a lot. You might be wondering why they don't provide insight and contribute to discussions. From an interview with Qxc: TL: Just curious, how much do you read TL? qxc: I skim the forums occasionally, but tend not to post as most of the stuff actually regarding the game has a lot of … garbage? Dunno. Just a lot of people theorycrafting. Not actually very useful. TL: Well, what do you think we could do to encourage more high level discussion that you might consider participating in? qxc: Have invite only topics. For example, create a TvZ discussion thread and only allow top tier Terrans and Zergs to post in it. Assuming people actually participated, it could be pretty interesting. It’s tough to defend a point when I’ve got bronze players telling me what I’m saying is wrong every other line. It's all a matter of respect. I don't know, maybe you'd rather have wonderful theorycrafting sessions with random SC2 players, but I'd rather have mine with Qxc. Of course, the suggestion Qxc proposed is not going to happen because the administrators actually do care about how TL is perceived by the general public. They really want it to be accessible and friendly to players of every skill level. But that's not saying that as things are, we can't get people like Qxc to post a little more frequently by showing them a bit more respect. | ||
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NIJ
1012 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:46 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Everyone who expresses an opinion should put in the work to properly back it up. The obvious way of backing up an opinion is with good arguments, examples, data, etc. That's what nearly everyone on the forum should be doing. Elite players can bypass all that because they back up their opinions by being the best in the world. Neither way is perfect but they're both good enough to promote good discussion on a forum. The mistake that a lot of people make is extrapolating from "elite players can just drop an opinion and it's respected because they're better than everyone else" to "i can drop my opinion and you should respect it because im better than you -- i'm diamond and you're gold". That just doesn't work. Completely agree with this, especially your last point. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:37 TurpinOS wrote: And obviously, 500 pt diamond players are ALL ONLY DOING ALL-INS, none of them can have a good knowledge of the game and just not have the micro and macro to pull it off, right ? Like I said, it DOESNT make you good and knowledgeable, but odds are you are still better and have more knowledge then the people that dont manage to get to your rank (but again, not necessarily, which is exactly the opposite of what the OP said ''dont argue with better people'' ) Totally agree, but I dont see how this topic was only directed to that. My take on the OP's point is that too many people use their rank to justify their argument instead of solid reasoning based on experience and logic. People like idra can make claims without having to give detailed reasoning but a mid diamond player can't make claims in a similar fashion. | ||
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hEndO
United States124 Posts
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
also this better not turn into another way people can justify their shitty losses aka the guy above me. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:50 infinity21 wrote: My take on the OP's point is that too many people use their rank to justify their argument instead of solid reasoning based on experience and logic. People like idra can make claims without having to give detailed reasoning but a mid diamond player can't make claims in a similar fashion. Totally agree, and I was only ''arguing'' because the original OP wasnt written in a way that would explain this at all. (reading the edit now) | ||
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DollerzMercenary
United States9 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
The only problem right now is waiting. Not enough people are patient enough to actually let the ladder rankings even out over time. There are no "true" rankings yet and there won't be until ~6 months after release...it just takes time. | ||
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
I don't think anyone knows what they're talking about here. You should all listen to what I have to say because I'm in diamond and that's the highest league you can be in. + Show Spoiler [seriously though] + great post, I can't agree more. that's a big reason why tend to not buy a lot of the things i read in the strategy forum and I hope this helps to clean it up a bit. | ||
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