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On May 05 2011 20:00 Caryc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 19:27 superarmy wrote:
It was a brilliant push. It's metagame shattering how is it meta game shattering? anypro didnt react even though he saw spine crawlers building like an hour in front of his base. (ok he build a stargate after seeing it which really doesnt seem..that great? he could at least have poked with sentries / pulled probes with his army and kill / deflect the few zerglings that defended 3 building spinecrawlers) seems like a cool tool to have in ur arsenal if u see forge FE on certain maps but its not like auto win against forge fe or something. dont forget u need lair for it to work (or build an hatch in front of his base!) dont disagree with the "brilliant push" thing. really cool to see.
Forge fast expand has been nigh unbreakable, a safe macro build. This shows a major vulnurability to it, that its too greedy to be able to defend this, I'm not entirely sure how anypro could have responded to stop this, faster stargate? It hit as he had essentially zero units.
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On May 05 2011 20:03 superarmy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 20:00 Caryc wrote:On May 05 2011 19:27 superarmy wrote:
It was a brilliant push. It's metagame shattering how is it meta game shattering? anypro didnt react even though he saw spine crawlers building like an hour in front of his base. (ok he build a stargate after seeing it which really doesnt seem..that great? he could at least have poked with sentries / pulled probes with his army and kill / deflect the few zerglings that defended 3 building spinecrawlers) seems like a cool tool to have in ur arsenal if u see forge FE on certain maps but its not like auto win against forge fe or something. dont forget u need lair for it to work (or build an hatch in front of his base!) dont disagree with the "brilliant push" thing. really cool to see. Forge fast expand has been nigh unbreakable, a safe macro build. This shows a major vulnurability to it, that its too greedy to be able to defend this, I'm not entirely sure how anypro could have responded to stop this, faster stargate? It hit as he had essentially zero units.
Did nestea have units there?
Probes can kill stuff.
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He had aprox 8 zerglings there if I recall correctly
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nestea was rushing t2 . anypro had maybe 3 sentries 1 zealot and probes against a not to high number of zerglings. he ddint even check/try that.
and there have been ways around forge fe recently which basically are roach/ling or hydras.
yeah its cool if you can actually respond to forge fe save by doing it,but i dont think this single game probes anything given the circumstances.
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I think he only had 1 sentry and 1 zealot.
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On May 05 2011 19:48 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 19:46 Elefanto wrote:On May 05 2011 19:25 Jehct wrote:On May 05 2011 19:22 ELA wrote:Slight GSL-spoiler + Show Spoiler +Im watching the GSL r08 between Nestea and anyproPrime.. And what do I see? Nestea just found a another way for zerg to be offensive, when protoss does forge fastexpand :D That was an allin, if anything that could be more fuel for an imbalance argument rather than any evidence to the contrary =P God damnit no it wasn't an all-in. Tyler, Incontrol and Day9, could you please explain on the next SotG what all-in and metagame means(Chill would be grateful as well for the metagame one) These terms are so falsely overused it's frustrating , you would help educate the community lol. Don't forget timing attack..
Don't forget "Bisu build"
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Tyler had a good point when he said that the Liquid side of the story was not put forward. When i read that liquid simply declined the invite i definitely felt negatively towards liquid. Once i knew about their reason i understood and accepted it.
But the rest of the argument just went off track. Tyler is smart but you really can't argue with incontrol... he is too witty.
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On May 05 2011 19:27 JKira wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 19:25 Jehct wrote:On May 05 2011 19:22 ELA wrote:Slight GSL-spoiler + Show Spoiler +Im watching the GSL r08 between Nestea and anyproPrime.. And what do I see? Nestea just found a another way for zerg to be offensive, when protoss does forge fastexpand :D That was an allin, if anything that could be more fuel for an imbalance argument rather than any evidence to the contrary =P How was it an allin when he took a third behind it and made just enough hydras to defend voidrays as he droned up more?
It was an all-in because if those three crawlers didn't kill the nexus he was severely behind. I don't know where people got the idea he was ahead on workers, he had to rush lair and get no other tech as well as spend 300mins and 3 drones to do that at some ridiculously early timing. That's like saying 5/6gate isn't all-in if you expand after killing the zergs nat and hold against the delayed muta harass.
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On May 05 2011 20:13 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 19:27 JKira wrote:On May 05 2011 19:25 Jehct wrote:On May 05 2011 19:22 ELA wrote:Slight GSL-spoiler + Show Spoiler +Im watching the GSL r08 between Nestea and anyproPrime.. And what do I see? Nestea just found a another way for zerg to be offensive, when protoss does forge fastexpand :D That was an allin, if anything that could be more fuel for an imbalance argument rather than any evidence to the contrary =P How was it an allin when he took a third behind it and made just enough hydras to defend voidrays as he droned up more? It was an all-in because if those three crawlers didn't kill the nexus he was severely behind. I don't know where people got the idea he was ahead on workers, he had to rush lair and get no other tech as well as spend 300mins and 3 drones to do that at some ridiculously early timing. That's like saying 5/6gate isn't all-in if you expand after killing the zergs nat and hold against the delayed muta harass.
I cannot think of anyway it wasn't going to kill the Nexus, unless Protoss buildings can lift now. It hit at a time he knew the Protoss could do nothing to stop it.
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On May 05 2011 20:12 KMARTRULES wrote:
Tyler had a good point when he said that the Liquid side of the story was not put forward. When i read that liquid simply declined the invite i definitely felt negatively towards liquid. Once i knew about their reason i understood and accepted it.
But the rest of the argument just went off track. Tyler is smart but you really can't argue with incontrol... he is too witty.
Thats just stupid, you felt negativity towards teamliquid because it stated they declined their invitation? why are you even here if thats the case.
Teamliquid should have been happy that Colbi was not putting words in their mouths and allowed teamliquid to issue a statement of their own, it was Tyler that started derailing this thing completely.
Gotta say tho, Tyler said some nasty things, I understand where he's coming from, but what he has said cannot be unsaid..
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I don't get what the hell non-zerg player here are doing. Idra has already made every zerg think the following way:
If zerg wins, protoss played bad and zerg got lucky. Zerg is usually 3-10 times better,
If toss wins, zerg played 4-10 times better and loss come from imbalance in game.
Whenever zerg comes up with any "non-idra drone drone drone style" it is an all in, so it is not right of way to play.
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On May 05 2011 20:20 xbankx wrote:
I don't get what the hell non-zerg player here are doing. Idra has already made every zerg think the following way:
If zerg wins, protoss played bad and zerg got lucky. Zerg is usually 3-10 times better,
If toss wins, zerg played 4-10 times better and loss come from imbalance in game.
Whenever zerg comes up with any "non-idra drone drone drone style" it is an all in, so it is not right of way to play.
You know what's worse than what idra does?
What you are doing, generalizing.
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nono, he is right.
if you play zerg and attack before the 30 minute mark, it is per definitionem all-in.
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On May 05 2011 20:24 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 20:20 xbankx wrote:
I don't get what the hell non-zerg player here are doing. Idra has already made every zerg think the following way:
If zerg wins, protoss played bad and zerg got lucky. Zerg is usually 3-10 times better,
If toss wins, zerg played 4-10 times better and loss come from imbalance in game.
Whenever zerg comes up with any "non-idra drone drone drone style" it is an all in, so it is not right of way to play. You know what's worse than what idra does? What you are doing, generalizing.
No idea about his last point, but i'd love some evidence for the contrary about the first two 
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On May 05 2011 20:00 Caryc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 19:27 superarmy wrote:
It was a brilliant push. It's metagame shattering how is it meta game shattering? anypro didnt react even though he saw spine crawlers building like an hour in front of his base. (ok he build a stargate after seeing it which really doesnt seem..that great? he could at least have poked with sentries / pulled probes with his army and kill / deflect the few zerglings that defended 3 building spinecrawlers) seems like a cool tool to have in ur arsenal if u see forge FE on certain maps but its not like auto win against forge fe or something. dont forget u need lair for it to work (or build an hatch in front of his base!) dont disagree with the "brilliant push" thing. really cool to see. edit : not saying it cant be a good answer to forge FE. im just saying that we cant tell from that one game since anypro did not react great at all,which is understandable seeing it probably the first time.
It's a strategy that lets zerg punish greedy expo builds with a very minimal larva cost, and a very fast t2. It seems to commit a lot less than the typical roach/baneling allins that you normally see zerg use to try to punish toss. But I think a really big potential effect this series could have is that a lot more zergs may start experimenting with faster tech and timing windows where normally "bad" units are especially effective.
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On May 05 2011 20:30 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 20:13 Jehct wrote:On May 05 2011 19:27 JKira wrote:On May 05 2011 19:25 Jehct wrote:On May 05 2011 19:22 ELA wrote:Slight GSL-spoiler + Show Spoiler +Im watching the GSL r08 between Nestea and anyproPrime.. And what do I see? Nestea just found a another way for zerg to be offensive, when protoss does forge fastexpand :D That was an allin, if anything that could be more fuel for an imbalance argument rather than any evidence to the contrary =P How was it an allin when he took a third behind it and made just enough hydras to defend voidrays as he droned up more? It was an all-in because if those three crawlers didn't kill the nexus he was severely behind. I don't know where people got the idea he was ahead on workers, he had to rush lair and get no other tech as well as spend 300mins and 3 drones to do that at some ridiculously early timing. That's like saying 5/6gate isn't all-in if you expand after killing the zergs nat and hold against the delayed muta harass. Did you not realize how wrong you are when you got shut down in 2 threads by everyone? It wasn't an all in. He had plenty of options, tech and sufficient economy.
Yeah...NesTea was droning the entire time, made only 8-10 lings and took a third -___-
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seriously i preffered when there was 4 toss talking about balance (and im T player) than idra shouting how much better than everybody else he is and how everybody sucks, pls dont invite him anymore this guy doesnt deserve it, sheth would be so much better.
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EPT
