On April 27 2011 16:26 MrCon wrote: Just started listening, the bunker segment is hilarious. Starting with sarcasm that goes undetected, hilarity ensue, then the bunker bank <3 I know how gretorp is feeling, I'm really not a naive person, but sometime with friends I just don't detect a sarcasm, this is a specialty of mine :D
I think its jsut cause its his first time, so he's kinda nervous and more prone to having sarcasm completely fly over his head cause hes trying so hard. It was still funny though, and he had a lot of great things to add so I'm sure Inc won't be able to troll him so easily next time
What Gretorp described about Terran feeling more reactive I think really only is the balance of power in the game.
Let's say Protoss opens up offensively with a 3gate Robo and expands behind it, Terran has to respect the power of the Protoss by bunkering up and maybe pulling SCV's to repair until it's staved off. Then stim and maybe combat shield/conc shells finish, the extra rax production from his expansion kicks in and medivac production starts; now the Protoss is on the back foot until he's got his Colossus count up and Thermal Lance. Then it's up to the Terran either to get something like Thors with strike cannon or Ghosts with EMP or a lot of Marauders/Vikings depending on the Colossus count to swing the power back into his hands either by continuing to tech or to engage and to remove the unit(s) that swings the power in the hands of the Protoss.
Obviously I'm terrible at SC2 and nowwhere near any of these guys skill-wise and there's hundreds of other factors that impact this balance but it's probably more the current state of the metagame rather than Protoss/Zerg being inherently more powerful, and even then Terran is probably the best equipped race to circumvent a baseline stronger opponent.
I love Gretorp and he's doing great, otherwise it was a good if somewhat dreary SotG. I enjoyed Anna coming and presenting her question instead of the murky sound of Geoffs phone through his mic.
On April 27 2011 16:45 GhostFall wrote: First time I ever saw a pro player mentioning how talent is a big part of becoming a pro player or not.
Liquid'Tyler's metrics: Play 6 hours a day, while doing your own thing (full-time job, etc). after 6 months if you're not like top 50, you should really really consider not making the jump to pro.
I wonder if he meant top 50 in a master division or top 50 grandmasters?
Seems pretty hard if its top 50 grandmasters, even artosis isn't even in grandmasters.
Seems to fly against a lot of what Korean pros say, where they say that sheer hard work is all is needed to become a pro gamer.
I think you misinterpreted what Tyler was saying. I think he was giving 6 months as a minimum, not "you have to be top 50 by 6 months". What I got from it was that if you're looking to go pro, expect it to take at least 6 months of you dedicating all of your free time into sc2, and whenever you happen to be within top 50 of your region, then going from full time job/study to full time sc2 becomes not a bad decision anymore.
Oh and he certainly meant rank 50 GM or up, at that point you're playing well known/pro players, top 50 masters division means absolutely nothing.
How come SC2 players are so obsessed with discrete numbers?
Wasn't it much more glaring how all- Tyler's, Gretorp's and Incontrol's responses emphasized on the importance of commitment as such. The "metric" Tyler has given was to exemplify the order of magnitude.They stressed the fact that being a pro-gamer is a profession, that at the end of the day the issue boils down to a career choice / switch.
As with any career choice, key factors to be considered are:
Joy
Passion
Talent
Stamina
Means of subsistence
General measures to minimize risks can and should be applied by dedicated and self-honest pre-assessment of mentioned aspects. Especially Incontrol's statement outlined a fairly "safe build" to take, while Gretorp and Tyler rather focused on allegories to complement the picture.
On April 27 2011 16:45 GhostFall wrote: First time I ever saw a pro player mentioning how talent is a big part of becoming a pro player or not.
Liquid'Tyler's metrics: Play 6 hours a day, while doing your own thing (full-time job, etc). after 6 months if you're not like top 50, you should really really consider not making the jump to pro.
I wonder if he meant top 50 in a master division or top 50 grandmasters?
Seems pretty hard if its top 50 grandmasters, even artosis isn't even in grandmasters.
Seems to fly against a lot of what Korean pros say, where they say that sheer hard work is all is needed to become a pro gamer.
I think you misinterpreted what Tyler was saying. I think he was giving 6 months as a minimum, not "you have to be top 50 by 6 months". What I got from it was that if you're looking to go pro, expect it to take at least 6 months of you dedicating all of your free time into sc2, and whenever you happen to be within top 50 of your region, then going from full time job/study to full time sc2 becomes not a bad decision anymore.
Oh and he certainly meant rank 50 GM or up, at that point you're playing well known/pro players, top 50 masters division means absolutely nothing.
How come SC2 players are so obsessed with discrete numbers?
Wasn't it much more glaring how all- Tyler's, Gretorp's and Incontrol's responses emphasized on the importance of commitment as such. The "metric" Tyler has given was to exemplify the order of magnitude.They stressed the fact that being a pro-gamer is a profession, that at the end of the day the issue boils down to a career choice / switch.
As with any career choice, key factors to be considered are:
Joy
Passion
Talent
Stamina
Means of subsistence
General measures to minimize risks can and should be applied by dedicated and self-honest pre-assessment of mentioned aspects. Especially Incontrol's statement outlined a fairly "safe build" to take, while Gretorp and Tyler rather focused on allegories to complement the picture.
Tyler wasn't saying play exactly 6 hours a day for exactly this much, but the idea is still largely there. The point is, practice the hours a pro practices and see how far you get in 6 months. If you don't get to that high of a level, the implication is you're probably not skilled enough to be able to successfully make a career out of pro gaming. The joy and passion might still be there but his point is you probably don't have the skill to be able to compete at the highest level.
On April 27 2011 16:45 GhostFall wrote: First time I ever saw a pro player mentioning how talent is a big part of becoming a pro player or not.
Liquid'Tyler's metrics: Play 6 hours a day, while doing your own thing (full-time job, etc). after 6 months if you're not like top 50, you should really really consider not making the jump to pro.
I wonder if he meant top 50 in a master division or top 50 grandmasters?
Seems pretty hard if its top 50 grandmasters, even artosis isn't even in grandmasters.
Seems to fly against a lot of what Korean pros say, where they say that sheer hard work is all is needed to become a pro gamer.
I think you misinterpreted what Tyler was saying. I think he was giving 6 months as a minimum, not "you have to be top 50 by 6 months". What I got from it was that if you're looking to go pro, expect it to take at least 6 months of you dedicating all of your free time into sc2, and whenever you happen to be within top 50 of your region, then going from full time job/study to full time sc2 becomes not a bad decision anymore.
Oh and he certainly meant rank 50 GM or up, at that point you're playing well known/pro players, top 50 masters division means absolutely nothing.
How come SC2 players are so obsessed with discrete numbers?
Wasn't it much more glaring how all- Tyler's, Gretorp's and Incontrol's responses emphasized on the importance of commitment as such. The "metric" Tyler has given was to exemplify the order of magnitude.They stressed the fact that being a pro-gamer is a profession, that at the end of the day the issue boils down to a career choice / switch.
As with any career choice, key factors to be considered are:
Joy
Passion
Talent
Stamina
Means of subsistence
General measures to minimize risks can and should be applied by dedicated and self-honest pre-assessment of mentioned aspects. Especially Incontrol's statement outlined a fairly "safe build" to take, while Gretorp and Tyler rather focused on allegories to complement the picture.
Tyler wasn't saying play exactly 6 hours a day for exactly this much, but the idea is still largely there. The point is, practice the hours a pro practices and see how far you get in 6 months. If you don't get to that high of a level, the implication is you're probably not skilled enough to be able to successfully make a career out of pro gaming. The joy and passion might still be there but his point is you probably don't have the skill to be able to compete at the highest level.
On April 27 2011 20:19 Sqq wrote: Was there a sotg this week ?
wow, are you kidding me with this post...
the hp says ep35, shut up.
Whoa, manner!
Also, you could've just checked like the last 2 pages like everyone else and seen that there are numerous discussions about Gretorp, who wasn't on Ep 35, or seen any of the many links towards Ep 36 VOD and mp3's.
On April 27 2011 16:45 GhostFall wrote: First time I ever saw a pro player mentioning how talent is a big part of becoming a pro player or not.
Liquid'Tyler's metrics: Play 6 hours a day, while doing your own thing (full-time job, etc). after 6 months if you're not like top 50, you should really really consider not making the jump to pro.
I wonder if he meant top 50 in a master division or top 50 grandmasters?
Seems pretty hard if its top 50 grandmasters, even artosis isn't even in grandmasters.
Seems to fly against a lot of what Korean pros say, where they say that sheer hard work is all is needed to become a pro gamer.
I think you misinterpreted what Tyler was saying. I think he was giving 6 months as a minimum, not "you have to be top 50 by 6 months". What I got from it was that if you're looking to go pro, expect it to take at least 6 months of you dedicating all of your free time into sc2, and whenever you happen to be within top 50 of your region, then going from full time job/study to full time sc2 becomes not a bad decision anymore.
Oh and he certainly meant rank 50 GM or up, at that point you're playing well known/pro players, top 50 masters division means absolutely nothing.
How come SC2 players are so obsessed with discrete numbers?
Wasn't it much more glaring how all- Tyler's, Gretorp's and Incontrol's responses emphasized on the importance of commitment as such. The "metric" Tyler has given was to exemplify the order of magnitude.They stressed the fact that being a pro-gamer is a profession, that at the end of the day the issue boils down to a career choice / switch.
As with any career choice, key factors to be considered are:
Joy
Passion
Talent
Stamina
Means of subsistence
General measures to minimize risks can and should be applied by dedicated and self-honest pre-assessment of mentioned aspects. Especially Incontrol's statement outlined a fairly "safe build" to take, while Gretorp and Tyler rather focused on allegories to complement the picture.
I don't think any of the numbers in my post were super important to the point. I think Tyler's advice boils down to this: Play sc2 passionately in your free time and see how good you can get. If you can match with best players in your region on the ladder, then maybe it's something you can do full-time. Until you can match with the best on ladder, however, keep your day job.
On April 27 2011 17:15 sickoota wrote: Gretorp's explanation for why he thought TvP is difficult for T sounded very strange to me. He can't win unless he hardcounters his opponent's unit composition? And that somehow makes T underpowered? It sounds like something idra would say at his worst - just blindly assuming your race takes more skill. I'm sure any toss player would say the exact same about toss. Look at something like Tyler vs Thorzain on xel naga - Tyler made the wrong units and the battle looked like a joke. Thats where starcraft 2 is at right now for any race, I don't see why only Terran has the burden of countering their opponent or how that makes them the worst race.
I think what Gretorp was trying to express was that Terrans have to compose their armies exceptionally well to hard counter their opponent; TvP in particular.
Now, I think the Zerg have to do this against Toss as well, but the Zerg can, theoretically, switch tech much more easily. The unit and building cost for Terran is a much bigger investment than Zerg, and less forgiving.
However, I don't necessarily agree that this argument makes Terrans 'the weakest'.
Part of it has to do with the way terran is designed, and will be solved in time as strategies get more refined and 'standard,' but, at this point in the game, one thing that hurts terran against protoss when trying to skew armies to different possible protoss comps are upgrades.
Since the upgrade path for bio/mech/air are all separate, and even in those priority can be different (+attack is priority if heavier tank, +armor for more thor-focused, and the like) it can be difficult to switch on the fly and get a better benefit. Put to extremes, if you're fighting a 3/3 protoss ground army with bio and decide you need something like thors to win, it's likely that your un-upgraded thors will get trashed.
As time goes on though, I think a lot of this will work itself out, as it did in BW, where you head toward a robust unit comp capable of handling the likely comp of your opponent based on the matchup, and scouting will tell you more and more earlier and earlier in the game, so you'll be able to make the adjustments earlier.
May be completely off, but my opinion (as a primarily protoss player) is that terran has a very difficult time unless they're dictating the pace of the matchup, or forcing responses that they've already prepared for, which is why thing like drop-focused play and early aggression were so strong for terran for the first 6 months or so in the competitive scene. Seems to me they require the most 'this is how I want things to look in 5 minutes' type of concept.
That's not to say Terran is relatively weak, underpowered, or more difficult, but rather a different skillset as their upgrades are more specialized.
On April 27 2011 20:19 Sqq wrote: Was there a sotg this week ?
wow, are you kidding me with this post...
the hp says ep35, shut up.
Whoa, manner!
Also, you could've just checked like the last 2 pages like everyone else and seen that there are numerous discussions about Gretorp, who wasn't on Ep 35, or seen any of the many links towards Ep 36 VOD and mp3's.
So yeah, be silent yourself. :/
Are you dense? I'm not sure how strong your english is, but he didn't say that to me in a friendly manner. Thats why I told him to shut up. Others where nice and just straight out helped me. What where you trying to accomplish with your post ?
Is anyone else having trouble downloading SOTG? Mine starts out at 1mb/s but it goes down by a few KB every second until it no longer downloads. It's pissing me off since I wanted to listen to this at the gym today ):
EPT
