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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 698

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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Disconnect
Profile Joined September 2010
United States84 Posts
April 06 2011 16:36 GMT
#13941
I don't see why the players are on the main-stage at MLG. What we want to see is on the screen we don't need to watch them staring intently at a computer monitor. Besides video of them are displayed on the screen at the bottom anyway.

Put the casters on stage and the casted players in the back somewhere so they can't hear. On stage the casters could interact with the audience as well making the experience much more enjoyable.
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
April 06 2011 16:37 GMT
#13942
On April 07 2011 01:27 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
I really don't agree with Tyler's evaluations at all.

Kas beating Nada is NOT the biggest upset, are you kidding me? Americans still underestimating europeans? TLO took a map of Nada and Kas is like twice as good as TLO at the moment.

Also Adel.Scott is a lot better than what QXC has shown lately.


its cuz kas hasnt participated in any international events, so NA hasn't been exposed to him at all except through word of mouth that hes insanely good. But yeh, apparently kas is a monster and might even be a favorite against nada :S
Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
April 06 2011 16:41 GMT
#13943
Cba making new topic for this but just wanted to know. Looking at europe ladder, couple players with 92% win rate.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/1058669/Happy
http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/194855/General

Is this the Happy from wc3? Who is General? Could it be hackers since 92% win rate with 76/6 and 47/4 sounds unreal for sc2.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
April 06 2011 16:43 GMT
#13944
Happy is the WC3 player indeed.

He just joined the Empire team, so he is legit and just really good.
Skinwalker
Profile Joined July 2010
6 Posts
April 06 2011 16:50 GMT
#13945
On April 07 2011 01:27 Swarmed wrote:
Just a couple things. First off talking balance with Day[9] is like trying to discuss the many possibilities when it comes to the origins of life and the universe with a religious zealot. Day[9] refuses to talk about possible imbalance simply out of principle. Back in the day of 5rax reaper, when it was obvious to just about everyone even top Terran players, he was still arguing that Zerg hadn't "figured it out yet". And he will keep spouting that line until a balance patch comes and will probably still claim that it wasn't imbalanced and we just didn't give it enough time. When you think about it, it makes sense for his casting career, because he wants to work with Blizzard sanctioned tournaments and being known for balance complaints is a form of controversy that he probably just doesn't want to be a part of.

And all of that would be just fine and dandy, if he could just say he "doesn't want to comment on it" instead of trolling and/or making plain BS statements, as if there was a bajillion options that the pros haven't figured out yet in Zerg's weak early game. Ok Day[9], why don't you show us your revolutionary Zerg openings and midgame transitions that none of the pros have figured out yet and that actually work above silver league?

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me. Maybe I'm missing something but atm Protoss is definitely the race I find the most boring to watch, mirror or not. Why is that? Because it's where the least risk is involved, except maybe when it comes to mirror BO losses. I feel both Zerg and Terran have to work harder for most of their wins atm. Protoss never looks like it's really endangered unless their opponent is outplaying them significantly. And yes Tyler, Zerg players will tend do make more mistakes when there is about a hundred forms of pressure and timing attacks they can insta-lose to and need different responses to. I know it's something that seems very hard to grasp when you play a race that can safely pressure expand and tech at the same time and not really get punished for it, but it's pretty obvious to most everyone else.

The bottom line is, no matter how much sugarcoating Day[9] or Tyler do, I know thanks to my Xray vision that when Day[9] spawns as Zerg, he knows just like any semi-competent player who picks random just for shits and giggles that he's got an uphill battle ahead of him. Unless he's dropped in bronze lately... but if he's in diamond or anywhere above, he knows just as well as Idra the amount of pressure, allins and other fun stuff he has to deal with in order to get into the midgame on equal footing.

When it comes to MLG it's obvious Day[9] and JP don't really want to talk about it because it doesn't really look good to stir up drama for people who are your employers once in a while? As for how to handle it, someone else put it pretty well: if you have to lie / sugarcoat, do it by omission, aka just don't comment too much on it and move on. But going out of your way to say it's not really MLG's fault, that's just overdoing it. Not like they've had major stream issues in the past right? Yeah, ok. How many times are we going to make excuses for them? 2,3,4 more tournaments down the line? When does it stop being ok that a major player like MLG can't get their shit together? I don't know, but not early enough apparently.

In any case, it's definitely refreshing to hear IdrA in the middle of a lot of political correctness, both when it comes to balance discussions and MLG. Too much PC can quickly make a good show rather boring. So thanks IdrA for saving the day.


I believe you are really fucking stupid. Please refrain from posting

User was temp banned for this post.
vdale
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1173 Posts
April 06 2011 16:50 GMT
#13946
On April 07 2011 01:41 Pekkz wrote:
Cba making new topic for this but just wanted to know. Looking at europe ladder, couple players with 92% win rate.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/1058669/Happy
http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/194855/General

Is this the Happy from wc3? Who is General? Could it be hackers since 92% win rate with 76/6 and 47/4 sounds unreal for sc2.

After the reset every top player has high win/loss ratio. I think they simply get weaker opponents most of the time, but I don't know why.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 16:53:18
April 06 2011 16:51 GMT
#13947
On April 07 2011 01:02 RaFeStaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2011 16:37 itmeJP wrote:
On April 06 2011 16:29 Velr wrote:
It's hard to figure something out when you get stomped by a 4 or 6 gate every second game because you were busy figuring out Z lategame...


MLG was "ok" according to most of them? Lol... They are so biased, if this would have been any other tournament it would have gotten ripped to shreds by them, and that for good reason.

I'm so tired of seeing this. MLG fucked up, we all said that, we all know that. Why the fuck would we spend more time on something people already spent the entire weekend talking about? What do you want us to say other then what has already been said?

I'm sorry for pointing out the few positive aspects of such a negative event. I guess its how I look at things.




There may have been a few positives from your standpoint but from ours there were close to none. We saw a total of like....2 games on friday AND saturday. Yeah, sure, the live event was great, but what about the majority who were sitting at home staring at a screen that said "The stream will start momentarily".

Again, what do you expect out of SotG in this regard? I think people just want to be angry and in the past, SotG has provided them a feel-good source of anger because a couple of pros agreed with them so it made their complaints seem more legitimate. JP and the crew did what they could on the issue given their experiences there. You all just want SotG to throw MLG under a bus because of how you felt that weekend, but none of them felt that way.

It's like the people that tune into talk radio shows just to hear their own opinions, so they can feel better about themselves. The more I think about it, the more I agree with exactly how JP ran the show.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ribboo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1842 Posts
April 06 2011 16:51 GMT
#13948
On April 07 2011 01:50 vdale wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 01:41 Pekkz wrote:
Cba making new topic for this but just wanted to know. Looking at europe ladder, couple players with 92% win rate.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/1058669/Happy
http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/194855/General

Is this the Happy from wc3? Who is General? Could it be hackers since 92% win rate with 76/6 and 47/4 sounds unreal for sc2.

After the reset every top player has high win/loss ratio. I think they simply get weaker opponents most of the time, but I don't know why.

when they began playing, they weren't as top-notch? And they kept those losses.
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
April 06 2011 16:55 GMT
#13949
On April 07 2011 01:27 Swarmed wrote:
Just a couple things. First off talking balance with Day[9] is like trying to discuss the many possibilities when it comes to the origins of life and the universe with a religious zealot. Day[9] refuses to talk about possible imbalance simply out of principle. Back in the day of 5rax reaper, when it was obvious to just about everyone even top Terran players, he was still arguing that Zerg hadn't "figured it out yet". And he will keep spouting that line until a balance patch comes and will probably still claim that it wasn't imbalanced and we just didn't give it enough time. When you think about it, it makes sense for his casting career, because he wants to work with Blizzard sanctioned tournaments and being known for balance complaints is a form of controversy that he probably just doesn't want to be a part of.

And all of that would be just fine and dandy, if he could just say he "doesn't want to comment on it" instead of trolling and/or making plain BS statements, as if there was a bajillion options that the pros haven't figured out yet in Zerg's weak early game. Ok Day[9], why don't you show us your revolutionary Zerg openings and midgame transitions that none of the pros have figured out yet and that actually work above silver league?

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me. Maybe I'm missing something but atm Protoss is definitely the race I find the most boring to watch, mirror or not. Why is that? Because it's where the least risk is involved, except maybe when it comes to mirror BO losses. I feel both Zerg and Terran have to work harder for most of their wins atm. Protoss never looks like it's really endangered unless their opponent is outplaying them significantly. And yes Tyler, Zerg players will tend do make more mistakes when there is about a hundred forms of pressure and timing attacks they can insta-lose to and need different responses to. I know it's something that seems very hard to grasp when you play a race that can safely pressure expand and tech at the same time and not really get punished for it, but it's pretty obvious to most everyone else.

The bottom line is, no matter how much sugarcoating Day[9] or Tyler do, I know thanks to my Xray vision that when Day[9] spawns as Zerg, he knows just like any semi-competent player who picks random just for shits and giggles that he's got an uphill battle ahead of him. Unless he's dropped in bronze lately... but if he's in diamond or anywhere above, he knows just as well as Idra the amount of pressure, allins and other fun stuff he has to deal with in order to get into the midgame on equal footing.

When it comes to MLG it's obvious Day[9] and JP don't really want to talk about it because it doesn't really look good to stir up drama for people who are your employers once in a while? As for how to handle it, someone else put it pretty well: if you have to lie / sugarcoat, do it by omission, aka just don't comment too much on it and move on. But going out of your way to say it's not really MLG's fault, that's just overdoing it. Not like they've had major stream issues in the past right? Yeah, ok. How many times are we going to make excuses for them? 2,3,4 more tournaments down the line? When does it stop being ok that a major player like MLG can't get their shit together? I don't know, but not early enough apparently.

In any case, it's definitely refreshing to hear IdrA in the middle of a lot of political correctness, both when it comes to balance discussions and MLG. Too much PC can quickly make a good show rather boring. So thanks IdrA for saving the day.


In your second post on these boards, you've managed to claim that Day9 is in bronze league, that you know protoss better than Tyler, that the SotG people are involved in an insidius plot to hide the streaming issues that everyone knows were present, and that Idra should be praised for having the balls to talk about imbalances, because everything else was boring. Really? Are you familiar with the word "humility"?
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 17:09:06
April 06 2011 17:00 GMT
#13950
On April 06 2011 21:55 The KY wrote:
They're there to give a unique perspective, and that perspective was that the problems were mostly outside of MLG's hands and it they were 'impressed' with how they handled the sitation.



If that's their perspective, then the people on SOTG were objectively wrong. I'll reiterate a few points from the MLG feedback threads below. The below are problems with MLG with simple solutions.

1) There should not be unplanned downtime between games. To prevent most of this, simply have a second set of computers on the main stage for players to setup on while the other game is going on.

2) The casters should be able to jump into games. To do this, simply give the casters multiple computers and have them join multiple games.

3) Every important should be streamed. IEM did this. You can have a group of online casters casting the game, but that's not even necessary. Just stream them.

4) The live blog is very bad. Old school starcraft players are used to having to read about games while they're going on. Give live blog input access to large group of people (e.g, Anna Prosser, MrBitter, etc...) so I can read more than one update every 10 minutes.

5) The stream quality is horrible. I'm not a tech person, so I can't say exactly how to fix this. But I strongly believe it can be, because literally every other stream has had better quality. This includes streams which have had 50,000+ viewers like the TSL, to small lans.

6) MLG has constantly promised to create storylines with interviews and other pieces of non-game content. I watched nearly the whole MLG, and I can only remember 3 interviews over 2 days. Huk, Idra, and Naniwa. There were probably a few more, but there was not nearly enough production value.

7) What the happened to make us miss TLO v Idra. If it was a break for the casters, why didn't they rotate them so they wouldn't need a break at that time? Even if that was impossible, why didn't they postpone that match until they were back? Or why didn't they simply stream the match without commentary? TLO and Idra are likely the two most popular players in the whole tourney, and we didn't get to see them play.

8) They don't have soundproof booths on the main stage. Idra and Socke could hear the commentators during their match. GSL had a problem with commentators being audible, but they have solved it with booths, headphones, and music being played in the booths. Why can't MLG do the same?

The players were not in position to notice all of these problems. That's fine. But I wouldn't say their perspective was unique. Rather, it was limited. And it was very frustrating to hear people praising and making excuses for how an event was run when they didn't realize the extent of how bad it was.
RaFeStaR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 17:06:52
April 06 2011 17:04 GMT
#13951
On April 07 2011 01:51 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 01:02 RaFeStaR wrote:
On April 06 2011 16:37 itmeJP wrote:
On April 06 2011 16:29 Velr wrote:
It's hard to figure something out when you get stomped by a 4 or 6 gate every second game because you were busy figuring out Z lategame...


MLG was "ok" according to most of them? Lol... They are so biased, if this would have been any other tournament it would have gotten ripped to shreds by them, and that for good reason.

I'm so tired of seeing this. MLG fucked up, we all said that, we all know that. Why the fuck would we spend more time on something people already spent the entire weekend talking about? What do you want us to say other then what has already been said?

I'm sorry for pointing out the few positive aspects of such a negative event. I guess its how I look at things.




There may have been a few positives from your standpoint but from ours there were close to none. We saw a total of like....2 games on friday AND saturday. Yeah, sure, the live event was great, but what about the majority who were sitting at home staring at a screen that said "The stream will start momentarily".

Again, what do you expect out of SotG in this regard? I think people just want to be angry and in the past, SotG has provided them a feel-good source of anger because a couple of pros agreed with them so it made their complaints seem more legitimate. JP and the crew did what they could on the issue given their experiences there. You all just want SotG to throw MLG under a bus because of how you felt that weekend, but none of them felt that way.

It's like the people that tune into talk radio shows just to hear their own opinions, so they can feel better about themselves. The more I think about it, the more I agree with exactly how JP ran the show.



I agree and I'm not one of those people who want SOTG to throw MLG under the bus and never expected them to. I was just pointing out how it was from home experience. It's not like we know how awesome the event is outside of a few people telling us...we just know what happened on our end.


I had no intention of listening to sotg last night and having them agree with my opinion that MLG was awful just so I could feel better about myself...
Swarmed
Profile Joined April 2011
59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 17:07:44
April 06 2011 17:07 GMT
#13952
@Treehead
I made a joke about Day[9] having dropped to bronze but it's pretty obvious that I don't believe it?
I don't claim to know Protoss better than Tyler but Tyler was comparing the level of refinement of Toss play to the other races' play. Which is a pretty far-reaching comparison and considering Tyler often actively ignores games that don't involve Protoss, I'm afraid he may not have seen refinement in the other races because they're usually too busy responding to Protoss' 1047th variation on 4gate. Which does kinda water down the possibilities here I'm sure you'll agree.
I don't think there is a "plot" to hide streaming issues, just that people who work with MLG would be reluctant to insist too much and talk about them for long, which makes total sense and which I don't even find unreasonable, just a little boring from a listener's point of view because it involves an unavoidable amount of sugarcoating and/or excuses.
Yeah, I think IdrA was the most entertaining speaker because of his lack of concern for political correctness. I think many people agree including Nazgul when speaking about IdrA in a recent interview.

Basically I don't think I said anything shockingly wrong or off.
SilverJohnny
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States885 Posts
April 06 2011 17:08 GMT
#13953
Something I found interesting about SotG - Sean mentioned how MC would get 3-0'd by White-Ra, and then post on his twitter "rage ladder time!"

Go to MC's twitter. 12 hours ago.

"angry ladder start!!"

could Day[9] be prophetic? could MC be a huge SotG fan? or is he still mad about his series vs MKP? only time will tell...
also i think you should be able to combine like 5 archons to make a really really shitty oliver stone film - Keanu_Reaver, bw balance genius
Essentia
Profile Joined July 2010
1150 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 17:14:01
April 06 2011 17:09 GMT
#13954
On April 07 2011 01:27 Swarmed wrote:
Just a couple things. First off talking balance with Day[9] is like trying to discuss the many possibilities when it comes to the origins of life and the universe with a religious zealot. Day[9] refuses to talk about possible imbalance simply out of principle. Back in the day of 5rax reaper, when it was obvious to just about everyone even top Terran players, he was still arguing that Zerg hadn't "figured it out yet". And he will keep spouting that line until a balance patch comes and will probably still claim that it wasn't imbalanced and we just didn't give it enough time. When you think about it, it makes sense for his casting career, because he wants to work with Blizzard sanctioned tournaments and being known for balance complaints is a form of controversy that he probably just doesn't want to be a part of.

And all of that would be just fine and dandy, if he could just say he "doesn't want to comment on it" instead of trolling and/or making plain BS statements, as if there was a bajillion options that the pros haven't figured out yet in Zerg's weak early game. Ok Day[9], why don't you show us your revolutionary Zerg openings and midgame transitions that none of the pros have figured out yet and that actually work above silver league?

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me. Maybe I'm missing something but atm Protoss is definitely the race I find the most boring to watch, mirror or not. Why is that? Because it's where the least risk is involved, except maybe when it comes to mirror BO losses. I feel both Zerg and Terran have to work harder for most of their wins atm. Protoss never looks like it's really endangered unless their opponent is outplaying them significantly. And yes Tyler, Zerg players will tend do make more mistakes when there is about a hundred forms of pressure and timing attacks they can insta-lose to and need different responses to. I know it's something that seems very hard to grasp when you play a race that can safely pressure expand and tech at the same time and not really get punished for it, but it's pretty obvious to most everyone else.

The bottom line is, no matter how much sugarcoating Day[9] or Tyler do, I know thanks to my Xray vision that when Day[9] spawns as Zerg, he knows just like any semi-competent player who picks random just for shits and giggles that he's got an uphill battle ahead of him. Unless he's dropped in bronze lately... but if he's in diamond or anywhere above, he knows just as well as Idra the amount of pressure, allins and other fun stuff he has to deal with in order to get into the midgame on equal footing.

When it comes to MLG it's obvious Day[9] and JP don't really want to talk about it because it doesn't really look good to stir up drama for people who are your employers once in a while? As for how to handle it, someone else put it pretty well: if you have to lie / sugarcoat, do it by omission, aka just don't comment too much on it and move on. But going out of your way to say it's not really MLG's fault, that's just overdoing it. Not like they've had major stream issues in the past right? Yeah, ok. How many times are we going to make excuses for them? 2,3,4 more tournaments down the line? When does it stop being ok that a major player like MLG can't get their shit together? I don't know, but not early enough apparently.

In any case, it's definitely refreshing to hear IdrA in the middle of a lot of political correctness, both when it comes to balance discussions and MLG. Too much PC can quickly make a good show rather boring. So thanks IdrA for saving the day.



100% correct.

edit: btw we'll see if/when day9 starts to play full time what race he picks, im suuuuuuuuuuuuure it'll be zerg.
Consolidate
Profile Joined February 2010
United States829 Posts
April 06 2011 17:10 GMT
#13955
Disturbing lack of real talk in this last Sotg.

On the MLG debacle, I suppose the cast and crew have given up on LAN? Perhaps Geoff would have some words to say about that.

On the whole imbalance issue, I feel as if Day9 is being a bit too diplomatic. zerg does seem legitimately underpowered right now. Perhaps all zerg players are stupid and haven't figured out the right play-style, but Day should at least acknowledge the mere possibility that zerg might actually have fundamental weaknesses that cannot ever be over come with 'revolutionary play'.
Creature posessed the the spirit of inquiry and bloodlust - Adventure Time
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
April 06 2011 17:12 GMT
#13956
On April 07 2011 02:10 Consolidate wrote:


On the MLG debacle, I suppose the cast and crew have given up on LAN? Perhaps Geoff would have some words to say about that.



There was a pic from Sundance's twitter circulating during MLG--MLG asked Blizzard about LAN and Blizzard basically said "not anytime soon"
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3720 Posts
April 06 2011 17:15 GMT
#13957
On April 07 2011 01:27 Swarmed wrote:
Just a couple things. First off talking balance with Day[9] is like trying to discuss the many possibilities when it comes to the origins of life and the universe with a religious zealot. Day[9] refuses to talk about possible imbalance simply out of principle. Back in the day of 5rax reaper, when it was obvious to just about everyone even top Terran players, he was still arguing that Zerg hadn't "figured it out yet". And he will keep spouting that line until a balance patch comes and will probably still claim that it wasn't imbalanced and we just didn't give it enough time. When you think about it, it makes sense for his casting career, because he wants to work with Blizzard sanctioned tournaments and being known for balance complaints is a form of controversy that he probably just doesn't want to be a part of.

And all of that would be just fine and dandy, if he could just say he "doesn't want to comment on it" instead of trolling and/or making plain BS statements, as if there was a bajillion options that the pros haven't figured out yet in Zerg's weak early game. Ok Day[9], why don't you show us your revolutionary Zerg openings and midgame transitions that none of the pros have figured out yet and that actually work above silver league?

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me. Maybe I'm missing something but atm Protoss is definitely the race I find the most boring to watch, mirror or not. Why is that? Because it's where the least risk is involved, except maybe when it comes to mirror BO losses. I feel both Zerg and Terran have to work harder for most of their wins atm. Protoss never looks like it's really endangered unless their opponent is outplaying them significantly. And yes Tyler, Zerg players will tend do make more mistakes when there is about a hundred forms of pressure and timing attacks they can insta-lose to and need different responses to. I know it's something that seems very hard to grasp when you play a race that can safely pressure expand and tech at the same time and not really get punished for it, but it's pretty obvious to most everyone else.

The bottom line is, no matter how much sugarcoating Day[9] or Tyler do, I know thanks to my Xray vision that when Day[9] spawns as Zerg, he knows just like any semi-competent player who picks random just for shits and giggles that he's got an uphill battle ahead of him. Unless he's dropped in bronze lately... but if he's in diamond or anywhere above, he knows just as well as Idra the amount of pressure, allins and other fun stuff he has to deal with in order to get into the midgame on equal footing.

When it comes to MLG it's obvious Day[9] and JP don't really want to talk about it because it doesn't really look good to stir up drama for people who are your employers once in a while? As for how to handle it, someone else put it pretty well: if you have to lie / sugarcoat, do it by omission, aka just don't comment too much on it and move on. But going out of your way to say it's not really MLG's fault, that's just overdoing it. Not like they've had major stream issues in the past right? Yeah, ok. How many times are we going to make excuses for them? 2,3,4 more tournaments down the line? When does it stop being ok that a major player like MLG can't get their shit together? I don't know, but not early enough apparently.

In any case, it's definitely refreshing to hear IdrA in the middle of a lot of political correctness, both when it comes to balance discussions and MLG. Too much PC can quickly make a good show rather boring. So thanks IdrA for saving the day.



Ok these guys are in a very tough spot. First this podcast isnt some professional setting, and second they still put this out so everyone can listen. If you dont like it DONT LISTEN. And that goes for all the angry trolls.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
Dystisis
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway713 Posts
April 06 2011 17:19 GMT
#13958

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me.

Read what you put down; Tyler was talking about Protoss build exploration and refinement in SC:BW, compared to the same for Zerg in SC2. Protosses needed to come up with a "wacky" strat which was not considered the norm to overcome the ZvP conceived imbalance of the time.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
April 06 2011 17:19 GMT
#13959
On April 07 2011 02:10 Consolidate wrote:
Disturbing lack of real talk in this last Sotg.

On the MLG debacle, I suppose the cast and crew have given up on LAN? Perhaps Geoff would have some words to say about that.

"Disturbing"?

Jibba said it best when he said that people just want to hear SotG complain because that's how they feel.

JP even posted in this thread saying there's nothing more to say. Everyone has beaten the issue like a dead horse.

I don't even know what your second paragraph was asking. "Given up on LAN?"
#TeamBuLba
Uhnno
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands288 Posts
April 06 2011 17:21 GMT
#13960
On April 07 2011 01:27 Swarmed wrote:
Just a couple things. First off talking balance with Day[9] is like trying to discuss the many possibilities when it comes to the origins of life and the universe with a religious zealot. Day[9] refuses to talk about possible imbalance simply out of principle. Back in the day of 5rax reaper, when it was obvious to just about everyone even top Terran players, he was still arguing that Zerg hadn't "figured it out yet". And he will keep spouting that line until a balance patch comes and will probably still claim that it wasn't imbalanced and we just didn't give it enough time. When you think about it, it makes sense for his casting career, because he wants to work with Blizzard sanctioned tournaments and being known for balance complaints is a form of controversy that he probably just doesn't want to be a part of.

And all of that would be just fine and dandy, if he could just say he "doesn't want to comment on it" instead of trolling and/or making plain BS statements, as if there was a bajillion options that the pros haven't figured out yet in Zerg's weak early game. Ok Day[9], why don't you show us your revolutionary Zerg openings and midgame transitions that none of the pros have figured out yet and that actually work above silver league?

As for Tyler I don't know what kind of chill pipe he's smoking but honestly talking about the refinement of protoss play when the whole race is mostly based on warpgate timing attacks negating defender's advantage then turtling into deathball in some way shape or form and all of this with very minimal risk is a little funny to me. Maybe I'm missing something but atm Protoss is definitely the race I find the most boring to watch, mirror or not. Why is that? Because it's where the least risk is involved, except maybe when it comes to mirror BO losses. I feel both Zerg and Terran have to work harder for most of their wins atm. Protoss never looks like it's really endangered unless their opponent is outplaying them significantly. And yes Tyler, Zerg players will tend do make more mistakes when there is about a hundred forms of pressure and timing attacks they can insta-lose to and need different responses to. I know it's something that seems very hard to grasp when you play a race that can safely pressure expand and tech at the same time and not really get punished for it, but it's pretty obvious to most everyone else.

The bottom line is, no matter how much sugarcoating Day[9] or Tyler do, I know thanks to my Xray vision that when Day[9] spawns as Zerg, he knows just like any semi-competent player who picks random just for shits and giggles that he's got an uphill battle ahead of him. Unless he's dropped in bronze lately... but if he's in diamond or anywhere above, he knows just as well as Idra the amount of pressure, allins and other fun stuff he has to deal with in order to get into the midgame on equal footing.

When it comes to MLG it's obvious Day[9] and JP don't really want to talk about it because it doesn't really look good to stir up drama for people who are your employers once in a while? As for how to handle it, someone else put it pretty well: if you have to lie / sugarcoat, do it by omission, aka just don't comment too much on it and move on. But going out of your way to say it's not really MLG's fault, that's just overdoing it. Not like they've had major stream issues in the past right? Yeah, ok. How many times are we going to make excuses for them? 2,3,4 more tournaments down the line? When does it stop being ok that a major player like MLG can't get their shit together? I don't know, but not early enough apparently.

In any case, it's definitely refreshing to hear IdrA in the middle of a lot of political correctness, both when it comes to balance discussions and MLG. Too much PC can quickly make a good show rather boring. So thanks IdrA for saving the day.


This piece of rant is pretty golden. Many assumptions are made, mixed with half truths and full lies. I'm quoting it because it deserves to be read. That is how preposterious I think it is.
Great X-ray visions when you don't even know that Day9 has multiple accounts, each for one race. Each and everyone can refine their play, regardless of the race they are playing.

While IdrA is fantastic to have on the show, he is definitely biased in terms of balance. Incontrol has it right when he said that IdrA has given up the ZvP match-up as a whole. It may be 'refreshing' to hear comments from a pro regarding the balance, but it's by no mean right or unbiased. And actually, ranting about Protoss OP is not refreshing at all. Just like how Day9 was right to make fun of IdrA's rage leave vs hallucination.
But it the end you might just be a troll and arguing about this is pretty much pointless.
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