EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2695
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itmeJP
United States1101 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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Scootaloo
655 Posts
Also very happy they brought up the whole protoss not winning tournaments thang, kinda sad though that like with most other balance critisisms, Kim didn't seem to really take it seriously. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:19 iNcontroL wrote: And let the complaints begin! A. "no race diversity to ask the good q's about z/t!" B. "Questions weren't good! How come they didn't ask X? Obviously a better q!" C. "iNcontroL and Nony aren't even pro level! They can't ask good q's!" Those should be top contenders But the questions were really good ^^ Major problem with Toss that I don't understand nobody asking is the ability to scout. Like as zerg the creep hack is amazing. as terran you can throw a marine anywhere. As toss its so hard without going phoenix to figure out what is going on. I feel like you have to go phoenix just to scout. its a big problem in the game. Scouting is a much larger risk as toss than the other two races. Question to Dan Kim- Toss lose a lot of tournaments, the challenge is that they have a lot of nexus energy, and cannot use it efficiently enough and scouting is much harder as toss they have a hard time seeing drop or knowing army position relative to the other two matchups. Why not be able to obs from the twilight council? | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
this has nothing to do with his perceived 'incompetence' or whatever, but i disagree with his philosophy about underused units like the carrier and mothership. i don't think they should ever be satisfied with a gimpy or one-dimensional unit being in the game. sure they can live with it for now and work on more pressing imbalances, but they should always have as a long-term goal somewhere on their list finding a role for those units. it may be that they do keep it in mind and they just don't want to say things that might lead to unnecessary speculation and so they only comment on the current state of things, which might be wise, but still, i would find it very comforting to hear something along the lines of "well our first priority is to keep the game as fun, competitive, and spectate-able as possible in the short term... but we are also always looking for opportunities to fill holes and make the game even better, and underused or underpowered units like the carrier are always tools that are available to help us make improvements in the long term". tl;dr - blizzard needs to hire speechwriters or something. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:19 iNcontroL wrote: And let the complaints begin! A. "no race diversity to ask the good q's about z/t!" B. "Questions weren't good! How come they didn't ask X? Obviously a better q!" C. "iNcontroL and Nony aren't even pro level! They can't ask good q's!" Those should be top contenders To be honest i´m not seeing a lot of complains. the only ones are the usual "i don´t like SC2" guys that will never be satisfied my anything a Blizzard employee says. They just watch for the drama. It was an hour with a moderator, a blizzard employee and 2 progamers/streamers/commentnators which spend a lot of time with Starcraft. I mean what kind of answers do the complainers expect? Incontrol: Why do a lot of Blizzard maps suck? David Kim: Well yea you are right they suck because the guy whos making them is dumb as shit. or Incontrol: Whats the strongest race? David Kim: Terran because then we can sell more copies and Blizzard pays me more to buy me 3. porsche. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:50 tokinho wrote: But the questions were really good ^^ Major problem with Toss that I don't understand nobody asking is the ability to scout. Like as zerg the creep hack is amazing. as terran you can throw a marine anywhere. As toss its so hard without going phoenix to figure out what is going on. I feel like you have to go phoenix just to scout. its a big problem in the game. Scouting is a much larger risk as toss than the other two races. Question to Dan Kim- Toss lose a lot of tournaments, the challenge is that they have a lot of nexus energy, and cannot use it efficiently enough and scouting is much harder as toss they have a hard time seeing drop or knowing army position relative to the other two matchups. Why not be able to obs from the twilight council? Or some sort of vision ability (25 mineral units that cannot attack that is slow, vision wards like in Dota2 that are warped in from there.) | ||
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Yergidy
United States2107 Posts
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:50 tokinho wrote: But the questions were really good ^^ Major problem with Toss that I don't understand nobody asking is the ability to scout. Like as zerg the creep hack is amazing. as terran you can throw a marine anywhere. As toss its so hard without going phoenix to figure out what is going on. I feel like you have to go phoenix just to scout. its a big problem in the game. Scouting is a much larger risk as toss than the other two races. Question to Dan Kim- Toss lose a lot of tournaments, the challenge is that they have a lot of nexus energy, and cannot use it efficiently enough and scouting is much harder as toss they have a hard time seeing drop or knowing army position relative to the other two matchups. Why not be able to obs from the twilight council? Yeah Protoss doesn't have a permanently cloaked, 25/75 unit that flies and can be chronoboosted to find out what the opponent is doing. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Protoss has many problems but I don't think the ability the scout is one of them, not in HOTS. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:14 BlueLanterna wrote: Yeah Protoss doesn't have a permanently cloaked, 25/75 unit that flies and can be chronoboosted to find out what the opponent is doing. So many trolls. My final question is not whether you have an obs. Its where you are producing the obs from. I agree the question that I'm returning to is that Toss seem to be losing. I conjectured that the problem is vision, not actually unit composition and armies, hence why phoenix play seems so strong. In conjunction with collossus. The reason why they lose vision, is that right now you have to choose collossus or vision. I conjectured how to test that hypothesis, at the highest level you can test whether having vision from another building you can still effectively combat and the highest level would be more even. Do you happen to have a different conjecture on why toss seem to be losing more often at the highest level? | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:17 Bagi wrote: Also try hallucinating a phoenix sometimes. Protoss has many problems but I don't think the ability the scout is one of them, not in HOTS. Yeah, you can get a full scout of your enemy base by the time warpgate is done with hallu phoenix (may not be best to use your sentry energy that early, but it's still possible)... Definitely can't complain about Protoss scouting in HotS... So many trolls. My final question is not whether you have an obs. Its where you are producing the obs from. I agree the question that I'm returning to is that Toss seem to be losing. I conjectured that the problem is vision, not actually unit composition and armies, hence why phoenix play seems so strong. In conjunction with collossus. The reason why they lose vision, is that right now you have to choose collossus or vision. I conjectured how to test that hypothesis, at the highest level you can test whether having vision from another building you can still effectively combat and the highest level would be more even. Do you happen to have a different conjecture on why toss seem to be losing more often at the highest level? Why is this a problem? You can hallucinate phoenixs to scout on just gateway tech, and can get detection in some shape from both robo and stargate techs. There's really nothing wrong with protoss detection and scouting, and I'd hazard a guess that scouting is not why protoss have not been doing well lately at the highest level. Also observers or colossus has been a "problem" for protoss since release. Even when protoss players were enjoying great success, this issue still existed. So I don't think you can point to that being a problem now. | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:10 Noobity wrote: I don't think you're misunderstanding him at all. Just because a map is "Imbalanced" doesn't mean that one particular race has a clear advantage over another, it could go so far as to be a particular strategy has a mild advantage over another, or certain tricks can be used to exploit strengths in a race that while annoying might not be game changing. For instance, a map with a ton of high ground islands would be imbalanced for drop play. Terran would be able to take advantage of this with siege tanks, strategies where any race goes air could take advantage of this with sight advantages, you could stick a unit on these islands for additional, relatively safe scouting options. This can be taken to extremes where you have, say, a couple large high ground islands perfectly suited to sticking tanks and turrets on to completely defend against most early pushes. This means that on this map, you simply wouldn't be pushing early against terran. As a contrast, maybe we'd see these used offensively, where a protoss player would combine warp prisms with a normal sentry/immortal push, dropping the sentries on these islands to keep them safe. Imbalanced maps force players to think outside the box, create new strategies, learn to use units in new and interesting ways... One or two ridiculous maps in every tournament would be a blessing rather than a curse. I re-watched to the show now that it's been posted . . . and yes, I completely misunderstood Kim as I wasn't paying close enough attention. He didn't say he was for getting tournaments to play on imbalanced maps for fun, or that fun > imbalance at all. He was simply saying that he wanted to see more variety in strategy by testing new maps, while at the same time maintaining balance in the matchups. So to answer my own question, it's just a simple yes - I didn't hear him correctly. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:45 Durp wrote: Yeah, you can get a full scout of your enemy base by the time warpgate is done with hallu phoenix (may not be best to use your sentry energy that early, but it's still possible)... Definitely can't complain about Protoss scouting in HotS... Why is this a problem? You can hallucinate phoenixs to scout on just gateway tech, and can get detection in some shape from both robo and stargate techs. There's really nothing wrong with protoss detection and scouting, and I'd hazard a guess that scouting is not why protoss have not been doing well lately at the highest level. Also observers or colossus has been a "problem" for protoss since release. Even when protoss players were enjoying great success, this issue still existed. So I don't think you can point to that being a problem now. Interesting statement, "Also observers or colossus has been a "problem" for protoss since release. Even when protoss players were enjoying great success" In reviewing the vods, could I ask what time you felt like toss was enjoying great success? (such that I can come up with a better conjecture as to why toss seems to be less on top right now.) | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:58 tuho12345 wrote: Incontrol needs to stop cutting ppl off especially when DK was talking, so damn rude cause DK was really serious and we the listeners got interrupted too On the flip-side you CANNOT let your interviewee run away with it and not call him on stuff, otherwise they will run out the clock without you getting a chance to really hold them to account for what they're saying. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:19 iNcontroL wrote: And let the complaints begin! A. "no race diversity to ask the good q's about z/t!" B. "Questions weren't good! How come they didn't ask X? Obviously a better q!" C. "iNcontroL and Nony aren't even pro level! They can't ask good q's!" Those should be top contenders if this were meta, those would have all been addressed on the show. typical shitty sotg production!! ;-) loved the show and loved david kim. well spoken (and well trained in PR) mouthpiece for blizzard. | ||
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