EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1245
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Alabasern
United States4005 Posts
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fantomex
United States313 Posts
How had not a single person in that conversation not heard of trigger words? http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 07 2011 05:21 Defacer wrote: They're not literally destroying the planet. They might be making it a little more boring.  And I'm sorry, but a lot of those artists and comedians you referred to used these 'controversial' words as part of an narrative, and usually to make a greater point about language, politics and social conformity. You typically use these words to vent, which is also immature. I respectfully must insist there is a difference. Actually its the people who use aggressive language who are destroying our cultures / societies / world. You cant have physical aggression without a thought, and thoughts are formed with words and the images connected to them. Since there is no more "unsettled Wild West" to emigrate to when you have a problem with your neighbor and the human population is exploding everywhere, we have to learn to live together peacefully OR accept an increase in violence in our communities. Your choice, but it all starts with words. Nigger is an aggressive word. Shut the fuck up is an aggressive phrase. People who consciously choose to use them are accepting the responsibility for the violence which follows ... eventually ... through other people trying to be cool as X and using those words just the way they learned it. Saying "I was joking" is a bit hard after being seriously injured by someone who misunderstood the use of that offensive word. Obviously there is the "carte blanche self-defense" of those public figures who taught others the use of those words that it isnt their responsibility to educate them, but thats a fake excuse. Everyone of us shapes the world around us and life isnt a video game which you can switch and have no repercussions from the stupid stuff you just did in the other game. It is also extremely idiotic to reduce the english language to just a handful of insults. There are soo many creative uses of swearing and insulting in the literature that it is a shame just to use "fuck" all the time. | ||
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svarog
46 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:26 Rabiator wrote: Actually its the people who use aggressive language who are destroying our cultures / societies / world. You cant have physical aggression without a thought, and thoughts are formed with words and the images connected to them. Since there is no more "unsettled Wild West" to emigrate to when you have a problem with your neighbor and the human population is exploding everywhere, we have to learn to live together peacefully OR accept an increase in violence in our communities. Your choice, but it all starts with words. Nigger is an aggressive word. Shut the fuck up is an aggressive phrase. People who consciously choose to use them are accepting the responsibility for the violence which follows ... eventually ... through other people trying to be cool as X and using those words just the way they learned it. Saying "I was joking" is a bit hard after being seriously injured by someone who misunderstood the use of that offensive word. Obviously there is the "carte blanche self-defense" of those public figures who taught others the use of those words that it isnt their responsibility to educate them, but thats a fake excuse. Everyone of us shapes the world around us and life isnt a video game which you can switch and have no repercussions from the stupid stuff you just did in the other game. It is also extremely idiotic to reduce the english language to just a handful of insults. There are soo many creative uses of swearing and insulting in the literature that it is a shame just to use "fuck" all the time. There is no aggresion without though and thoughts are formed with words, really? As in, mute people are incapable of violence? Words are nothing without context. And context is what people must learn to understand. Obviously when someone is writing a murder novel, they aren't being irresponsible to the community at large because they might give an already damaged individual an idea. And lastly, how much more hypocritical can you get? The english language has so many insults so lets use them instead of "fuck"? Are you serious? So, you wouldn't be offended by a bigot bashing a black persion, but just as long as he doesn't use the "n-word" and is generaly eloquent and plesant sounding about it? If this is the case, then you deserve nothing short than a heartfealt "fuck you". And btw, that "moving to the Wild West" to avoid voilence with your neighbour is just wrong on so many levels, but I, from context, understand that you meant no harm and/or disrespect but was trying to push a point accross. Right? | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:07 fantomex wrote: That entire conversation about vulgar language was extremely ignorant. All parties involved had no clue what they were talking about. How had not a single person in that conversation not heard of trigger words? http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline Man some people just take offence to anything. A joke about being raped by dickwolves in a video game turn into a feminist rally against pennyarcade. After watching alot of brittish panel shows with people like Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle i'm more or less immune to being upset by words. Shocking dry brittish humor that crosses the line is fun and the few people that take offence are still a minority. You should be able to joke about anything. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
What is pretty ridiculous with Destiny is that he is saying this world like a motto, a habit, which is pretty pathetic, especially when you're a white boy. I don't think it offend anyone in any way so nobody should even try to stop him from using this word, but someone got to tell him that it's pretty pathetic and if he wants to give himself a "cool" style, he should just find another way. | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On June 07 2011 17:52 WhiteDog wrote: There is no problem in saying nigger or rape once in a while depending on the context. It can be pretty funny. imagine you have been raped and people are talking about raping others. Sure it's definately "funny" to use such words. </sarcasm> | ||
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Sceptor87
Canada266 Posts
Rape on the other hand is a term that gamers have been using for years. If I was to get raped I'm fairly sure I could differentiate the difference between sexual molestation against my will and somebody getting absolutely destroyed in a video game. But again, it doesn't have to be thrown around just to trump and toot your own horn. But I'm a firm believer that a man can say what he wants and do as he wishes to his own body. So fucked if I care to be honest. The whole "Ohhhhhhhhhh. BM BM!" mentality I see on here is stupid. People should just be themselves. It's a hell of a lot better than fabricating a lie for your own personal success. At least you're being honest. | ||
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BearDK
Denmark101 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:08 Tofugrinder wrote: imagine you have been raped and people are talking about raping others. Sure it's definately "funny" to use such words. </sarcasm> no matter what explicit word you use, there will always be a minority who might be offended by it. destiny made a great point about it in the last sotg. | ||
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svarog
46 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:07 fantomex wrote: That entire conversation about vulgar language was extremely ignorant. All parties involved had no clue what they were talking about. How had not a single person in that conversation not heard of trigger words? http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline I tried wikipedia and google searches on it, from the cursory glance I couldn't find a straight connection with "trigger words" and "posttraumatic stress disorder". The only relation to which I found the term "trigger word" being used was on a user interface engineering site, or a short text on how the word "must" triggers a stronger response from an audience than the word "should" (and I just wonder how could anyone have been surprised by that fact). And even if there is a scientific connection (I do not claim there is not), the content we are discussing about isn't shoved down anyones throat. I'll make a sloppy attempt at an anology. If someone has problems with loud music, they should refrain themselves from going to concerts or clubs. The proposition that clubs and concerts should start playing soft music in order to be accomodating to any chance guests that might have this problem is not the right solution and is ultimately wrong on all levels. | ||
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svarog
46 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:08 Tofugrinder wrote: imagine you have been raped and people are talking about raping others. Sure it's definately "funny" to use such words. </sarcasm> Now just imagine that they aren't really talking about _actually_ raping other people, but are using the word in a nonsexual context. If you still think it is the same, you should be calling the police right now. </sarcasm> | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:27 svarog wrote: Now just imagine that they aren't really talking about _actually_ raping other people, but are using the word in a nonsexual context. If you still think it is the same, you should be calling the police right now. </sarcasm> I didnt say that gamers using words like "rape" mean _actually_ raping other people. But that is what comes into the mind of people who have been raped On June 07 2011 18:18 BearDK wrote: no matter what explicit word you use, there will always be a minority who might be offended by it. destiny made a great point about it in the last sotg. so what's your logic then? ignore everything because you are too lazy to think for a second before using offsensive words? | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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Crovea
Denmark100 Posts
On June 07 2011 17:52 WhiteDog wrote: There is no problem in saying nigger or rape once in a while depending on the context. It can be pretty funny. What is pretty ridiculous with Destiny is that he is saying this world like a motto, a habit, which is pretty pathetic, especially when you're a white boy. I don't think it offend anyone in any way so nobody should even try to stop him from using this word, but someone got to tell him that it's pretty pathetic and if he wants to give himself a "cool" style, he should just find another way. His point is that he doesn't give a crap about "cool style" or whatever you think he's after. He talks the way he feels like and thats the end of it. | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:32 Tofugrinder wrote: I didnt say that gamers using words like "rape" mean _actually_ raping other people. But that is what comes into the mind of people who have been raped so what's your logic then? ignore everything because you are too lazy to think for a second before using offsensive words? stop stealing other peoples material | ||
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svarog
46 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:32 Tofugrinder wrote: I didnt say that gamers using words like "rape" mean _actually_ raping other people. But that is what comes into the mind of people who have been raped so what's your logic then? ignore everything because you are too lazy to think for a second before using offsensive words? Yes, because it can go on forever and it can apply to everything. And this is the last example that I am going to spam on this topic: "Player_X fighting" is a cheer in the SC community. Can I make an argument that I am traumatized by my mother and father fighting when I was a child, so please think for a second before you cheer? And more importantly should you care that much so that you would change your cheering, even when it would be only my fault for dragging my childhood badgage in the community if I did so? | ||
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Jutranjo
Slovenia140 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On June 07 2011 15:26 Rabiator wrote: Actually its the people who use aggressive language who are destroying our cultures / societies / world. You cant have physical aggression without a thought, and thoughts are formed with words and the images connected to them. Since there is no more "unsettled Wild West" to emigrate to when you have a problem with your neighbor and the human population is exploding everywhere, we have to learn to live together peacefully OR accept an increase in violence in our communities. Your choice, but it all starts with words. Nigger is an aggressive word. Shut the fuck up is an aggressive phrase. People who consciously choose to use them are accepting the responsibility for the violence which follows ... eventually ... through other people trying to be cool as X and using those words just the way they learned it. Saying "I was joking" is a bit hard after being seriously injured by someone who misunderstood the use of that offensive word. Obviously there is the "carte blanche self-defense" of those public figures who taught others the use of those words that it isnt their responsibility to educate them, but thats a fake excuse. Everyone of us shapes the world around us and life isnt a video game which you can switch and have no repercussions from the stupid stuff you just did in the other game. It is also extremely idiotic to reduce the english language to just a handful of insults. There are soo many creative uses of swearing and insulting in the literature that it is a shame just to use "fuck" all the time. In my opinion, you are going into the wrong direction with your criticism. Something like "shut the fuck up" can feel different depending on the situation it is said in, the tone and the gestures of the speaker, and what you as a listener suspect the speaker to know about you and your mood. Language is a tool for two brains to sync up. In a conversation, the listener creates an image of the speaker's mindset and background. This is essential to understand the meaning of what the speaker is saying. Language only works together with that image of the speaker's mind you have, and you always translate what is said. [This is why machine translations fail so often.] What you are writing in all of your posts, I honestly never felt like that about language. For example, I think I remember you saying somewhere that it would be hard for someone to change away from using expletives if they are used daily. But I never saw someone that does not automatically use a different language when facing different people. If you hear a word that irritates you, you will naturally know from the rest of the conversation if the speaker understands that word the same as you, or uses it different because it seems to mean something else for him than for you. Rather than making me angry or depressed, I always found situations like that rather interesting. What was pulling on my emotions the most was always what I perceived someone's mindset to be like. Conversations where crude language was not even used made me the most happy, sad, embarrassed or angry in my life. Because of this, for me, arguing about the particular words used by someone seems unimportant. I feel it would be more beneficial for your goal, to have a more personal approach, and explain that some words irritated you and talk about your feelings and background a bit, and explain to Destiny for example, that this detracted from your enjoyment while you were watching his stream. If you manage to not piss him off, this will change the image he has of his audience a tiny bit, and will eventually cause him to naturally also change his language (a tiny bit).  | ||
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rolfe
United Kingdom1266 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:35 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know what time "[unparsable timestamp format]" is tonight? its not on tonight  | ||
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DjayEl
France252 Posts
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