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On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG.
microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro...
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On May 26 2011 05:30 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 04:32 ShooTouts wrote:
honestly I am going to watch both .... but I prefer Sotg because JP isnt an asshole ...DJ Wheat just rubs me the wrong way especially because hes always rude to just about every caller even when they have a decent question .... JP is more chill ... "just about every caller" - And by that I'm sure you mean the 2 guys I got upset with in Episode 1. Generalizations are awesome. The last sentence was false. If JP dealt with callers who interrupt the show... I'm sure he'd show a neck vein or two as well.
lol. DJWheat you are awesome.
Besides i've heard some people call in you're very polite to them even when they're ****ing crazy.
Why is SotG taking a break? You guys should probably just talk less... and it might end up being a less stressful show. But don't take a break for too long, right now i think everyone is in a nice place where it's like "oh! tuesday.. SotG!"
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On May 26 2011 06:20 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:53 On_Slaught wrote:
Who in the community, pref a terran, is like Incontrol in personality?
I can't think of any off the top of my head. I think Incontrol is pretty unique. Even so, its not they need a Incontrol 2.0. to stay relevant, they can just get a different kind of host and it might work out even better. One funny and charismatic terran I can think of is Demuslim, but I doubt its possible with him being European.
Demuslim is also EG member. I doubt any european could could replace him as its 5.30 am.
Best choice would be artosis, but he is just as busy as incontrol. Jinro would be really awesome, but I doubt he would want to.
Really cant come up with a good replacement...Maby best thing is just to keep going with whos left and have a couple of guests each week.
I really hope they dont abandon the show alltogether
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On May 26 2011 06:29 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG. microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro...
I was imagining something like four infestors waddling into the enemy death ball by themselves and dieing with full energy, when I listened to that "don't know how to micro" part. And I remember seeing a lot of stuff like that in broadcasted games.
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State of the game without incontrol is like south park without cartman.
People change, incontrol 6 months ago would always make time for show where he got like 90% of his fan base.
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"... perhaps even as a guest" If iNcontrol hadn't dais that line after he says next week is his last SoTG I don't think all of this rumours about EG and ITG. But if he only quits for personal reasons, why say he can't be a guest? It sounds like someone has told him he can't do it anymore.
For my own taste SoTG >>> ITG. I like the atmosphere in SoTG, it's so relaxed and just sounds like a lot of friends talking about whats going on. ITG don't cover a need I have for sc2. I can find other places to learn, but SoTG is just so much fun and well, easy to chill out too.
When it comes to who they should replace Geoff with, if any. I don't think they should look for a person to fill his role. Noone can replace Geoff, thats how it is. It's like replacing CHarlie Sheen with Aston Kutcher and it will just be weird...
Oh and BTW: Someone has to make a memorial video to Geoff like GSL did to Idra when he left Korea :D
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I mean, if SOTG goes down the only "real regular guys shooting the shit about starcraft" show there will be is Marty and Borg, and they're nublets compared to Inc, idra, et al.
That sucks.
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On May 26 2011 06:34 Pekkz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 06:20 Bagi wrote:On May 26 2011 05:53 On_Slaught wrote:
Who in the community, pref a terran, is like Incontrol in personality?
I can't think of any off the top of my head. I think Incontrol is pretty unique. Even so, its not they need a Incontrol 2.0. to stay relevant, they can just get a different kind of host and it might work out even better. One funny and charismatic terran I can think of is Demuslim, but I doubt its possible with him being European. Demuslim is also EG member. I doubt any european could could replace him as its 5.30 am. Best choice would be artosis, but he is just as busy as incontrol. Jinro would be really awesome, but I doubt he would want to. Really cant come up with a good replacement...Maby best thing is just to keep going with whos left and have a couple of guests each week. I really hope they dont abandon the show alltogether
coLCruncher is american and would keep the race balance as it is now
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On May 26 2011 04:04 mav451 wrote:There's also a great line from a recent GoT episode, + Show Spoiler [Episode 7] +"a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of the sheep" I have a feeling this applies to alot of casters and progamers in general. And it makes alot of sense if you think about it.
So you quote the words of Lannisters to support your post? To consider yourself a lion among sheep is just an extremely arrogant attitude, and it is self-deceiving.
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I'm soooo sad, SoTG will never be the same without Incontrol, we will really miss you. Still, thank you for all those episodes!!! and good luck with your other activities. I hope SoTG will continue strong, I love this show.
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On May 26 2011 06:38 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 06:29 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG. microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro... I was imagining something like four infestors waddling into the enemy death ball by themselves and dieing with full energy, when I listened to that "don't know how to micro" part. And I remember seeing a lot of stuff like that in broadcasted games.
yeah, but fixing that isn't rocket science either.. putting your infestors into a separate control group isn't "learning how to micro infestors, therefore changing the ZvP status quo".. what happened is that zergs modelled their strategies around the inclusion of the infestor and banelings, and that changed the standard - now, we're learning how to handle our new standard better, but the shift from roach/hydra/corruptor to play involving infestors and baneling drops isn't about "learning to micro" at all.
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On May 26 2011 06:16 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. By the way, I think calling someone out on being hypocritical when time has passed is worthless. Hypocrisy happens all at once. Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing something contrary at about the same time or supporting two contrary things simultaneously. Keeping a record of every attitude and opinion and position about everything, and then calling someone a hypocrite every time you note a change is a waste of time. People evolve. If someone isn't changing opinions, they're likely lying or just don't have anything of value to add anymore. Tyler, my point was more directed at HuK almost insulting zerg players. Things like zerg players just amoved and lost and then whined. Yes infestors were buffed, and this opened up various new strats. But a lot of these strats were not viable before the buff, and thus they weren't done. I don't think zerg players got better with infestors, they just weren't viable. Zerg were already using them in ZvT and ZvZ regularly. I am a random player, and I tried infestor play pre-patch. It wasn't very viable, at least at my level. But now with it's increased strength, it can help transition into say faster ultralisks, which means you can counter the deathball+sentrys push where you would normally just throw a roach/hydra/corrupter army and hope to remax and kill it. You couldn't get fast ultralisks before, because it would leave you at risk to certain timings, but now with the infestor being a much stronger and better defensive unit, it is a lot more viable. It was dumb and arrogant of him to say, oh zerg players learned how to micro. No they didn't. They got buffed, and discovered new strats, and thats completely different then learning to micro. Zergs already knew how to micro, there just wasn't a lot of micro oppurtunities. And as far as the a-moving, it was no different then the protoss deathball being clicked across the map, so it's a stupid point. My comment wasn't really directed at you, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I just greatly dislike players that generalize a group of people based on a small % of that group. Then again, I am just a masters random player. I have about a 90% winrate in PvZ right now, because I've been incorporating archons, even though they apparentely suck according to some pros. The infestor buff was designed to counter the colossi/deathball, so it should be beating it, because zergs other "supposed" counter wasn't working. I don't think infestors are too good right now, colossi simply aren't the anwser to them. Then again, maybe the zergs I am playing just aren't good enough. who knows
HuK even said "I think its pretty balanced, but i just like whining because Zergs did that all the time."
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On May 26 2011 06:50 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 04:04 mav451 wrote:There's also a great line from a recent GoT episode, + Show Spoiler [Episode 7] +"a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of the sheep" I have a feeling this applies to alot of casters and progamers in general. And it makes alot of sense if you think about it. So you quote the words of Lannisters to support your post? To consider yourself a lion among sheep is just an extremely arrogant attitude, and it is self-deceiving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality
There are many lions among many more sheep.
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i will miss geoff for sure, but i remember a couple sotg's back he wasnt there for an episode and i really didnt mind it that much. whenever sotg is back im sure it will be just as entertaining, though it has lost one of the most entertaining personalities in esports
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DJ Wheat is awesome, the way he hosts the show and handles callers is great. More power to you DJWheat you seem like a really nice guy with a great family. I hope starcraft continues to give you a way to provide means to your family for years to come.  !
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On May 26 2011 06:29 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG. microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro...
I'm pretty sure he was talking more about baneling drops than just infestors,cause thats whats been going on in the matchup atm, which really is zergs learning to micro instead of a-move to solve their problems. Don't see any problem with what he said, seems accurate to me.
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On May 26 2011 07:11 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 06:29 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG. microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro... I'm pretty sure he was talking more about baneling drops than just infestors,cause thats whats been going on in the matchup atm, which really is zergs learning to micro instead of a-move to solve their problems. Don't see any problem with what he said, seems accurate to me.
If you think zergs tried to just a-move to solve their problems before than your either ridiculously mistaken or rather blatantly trolling.
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On May 26 2011 07:07 FrankWalls wrote:
i will miss geoff for sure, but i remember a couple sotg's back he wasnt there for an episode and i really didnt mind it that much. whenever sotg is back im sure it will be just as entertaining, though it has lost one of the most entertaining personalities in esports
That's exactly how I feel to. Let's just hope that hiatus is not longer than a week or so 
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InControl was maybe the most entertaining person in the show. He fired up the discussions with his debating skills and weird but so funny sense of humour.
Please rethink your decision Geoff.
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On May 26 2011 07:14 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:11 sickoota wrote:On May 26 2011 06:29 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 05:56 ZeromuS wrote:On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing. It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG. microing infestors is pretty easy, you hit f and then you click on a bunch of stalkers. we've used infestors in ZvT before, too, it's not rocket science. if that's what huk was talking about, then... it's kind of strange to think of that as a change from "race can't micro" to "race can micro". yeah, a lot of zergs were bitching, a lot of protosses and terrans are bitching now and protosses have bitched in the past as well, everyone bitches so it's dumb to say "this race is the whiner race". I don't think it's that wrong to be offended by someone saying that my entire race is comprised of whiners who can't micro... I'm pretty sure he was talking more about baneling drops than just infestors,cause thats whats been going on in the matchup atm, which really is zergs learning to micro instead of a-move to solve their problems. Don't see any problem with what he said, seems accurate to me. If you think zergs tried to just a-move to solve their problems before than your either ridiculously mistaken or rather blatantly trolling.
They figured out it took more than that eventually... and now they win alot more games.
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EPT
