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On May 26 2011 05:30 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 04:32 ShooTouts wrote:
honestly I am going to watch both .... but I prefer Sotg because JP isnt an asshole ...DJ Wheat just rubs me the wrong way especially because hes always rude to just about every caller even when they have a decent question .... JP is more chill ... "just about every caller" - And by that I'm sure you mean the 2 guys I got upset with in Episode 1. Generalizations are awesome. The last sentence was false. If JP dealt with callers who interrupt the show... I'm sure he'd show a neck vein or two as well.
djwheat, I still like you, but I also got the same impression from you episode one of your show. I'm just posting this here for criticism, that maybe you should chillax  .
I like JP and DJwheat.
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On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit.
at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong
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You do a fantastic job with the calls on the show Wheat, I don't like the idea of wasting time on people who don't know how to call in either. I am of course only saying this as a counter-weight to the people who don't think you do a good job, and it never even struck me that people would think you didn't do a good job until now.
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Incontrol made Sotg, he made it so funny, especialy when anna comes on, its hysterical. Hopefully day9 and tyler can still make it funny
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Just watch the call yesterday where the guy was very nervous and was like "do i just say my name", Djwheat could have ripped the guy apart but he nicely explained to him what to do. I thought personally Djwheat was going to make fun of him, but I think he could tell he was nervous.
Tyler, were you trolling Incontrol a few shows back when you said "for the fans?" or did you not know yet?
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this is really too bad. sotg has been my favorite starcraft show for a long time now (since i heard my first episode) and geoff was a big reason. i'm sad to see him go =/
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I understand Inc needs to show his loyalty to Scoots and in turn Wheat. If Scoots was wise, he'd know how to best utilize his assets though.
InconTroll needs a forum where he can more freely voice his opinions. If Scoots wants his articulate front man to remain a profile, he'd do well to let him stay in SotG which suits him much better than ItG.
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Who in the community, pref a terran, is like Incontrol in personality?
I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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Generalizations are awesome.
I have to almost assume that you are under 18 and have a hard time finding things to occupy your time with.
Let the irony commence!! :D
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So are we taking nominations for new pillars or at least people to make guest appearances in the mean time? Im a big fan of the RooT guys and of course Tastosis, but I would say no more protoss!
Additionally my girlfriend says no more gretorp! she really doesnt like that guy, and right when she finally got around to being okay with incontrol he made like a tree and got out of here!
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Canada13389 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong
Here's my view of the whiners who cant micro thing.
It was said amongst friends and players for the community to hear but obviously it was hyperbole. the Zerg players did use to complain a lot and say Zerg weak, matchups OP etc etc. This is a fact that many many Zergs of all levels were voicing their frustrations out loud and the term whiner was used in reference to this (of course it is hyperbole to a certain extent). Then the "don't know how to micro" part is also true. Zerg are figuring out the infestor, if they had it figured out before then they would have already known how to micro it. So no the Zerg players didnt know how to micro (the infestor). Thats all; I dont see how you can be getting so offended by a discussion on the current state of PvZ amongst Protoss players. Protoss is falling behind and the shift is towards the Zerg, often the game shifts understanding from one race to another in a matchup so I don't see anything wrong with the fact or way they discussed it on SOTG.
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On May 26 2011 05:54 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +I have to almost assume that you are under 18 and have a hard time finding things to occupy your time with. Let the irony commence!! :D
Assumptions and generalizations are different things.
Hypocrisy is the word you're looking for, not irony.
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On May 26 2011 05:30 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 04:32 ShooTouts wrote:
honestly I am going to watch both .... but I prefer Sotg because JP isnt an asshole ...DJ Wheat just rubs me the wrong way especially because hes always rude to just about every caller even when they have a decent question .... JP is more chill ... "just about every caller" - And by that I'm sure you mean the 2 guys I got upset with in Episode 1. Generalizations are awesome. The last sentence was false. If JP dealt with callers who interrupt the show... I'm sure he'd show a neck vein or two as well.
Stay above the fray, sir. This thread goes to shit rather quickly when any well-known community member posts on it ...
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On May 26 2011 06:06 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:54 nvs. wrote:Generalizations are awesome. I have to almost assume that you are under 18 and have a hard time finding things to occupy your time with. Let the irony commence!! :D Assumptions and generalizations are different things. Hypocrisy is the word you're looking for, not irony.
It is if he's generalizing what it means to be under 18.
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On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. By the way, I think calling someone out on being hypocritical when time has passed is worthless. Hypocrisy happens all at once. Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing something contrary at about the same time or supporting two contrary things simultaneously. Keeping a record of every attitude and opinion and position about everything, and then calling someone a hypocrite every time you note a change is a waste of time. People evolve. If someone isn't changing opinions, they're likely lying or just don't have anything of value to add anymore.
Tyler, my point was more directed at HuK almost insulting zerg players. Things like zerg players just amoved and lost and then whined.
Yes infestors were buffed, and this opened up various new strats. But a lot of these strats were not viable before the buff, and thus they weren't done. I don't think zerg players got better with infestors, they just weren't viable. Zerg were already using them in ZvT and ZvZ regularly.
I am a random player, and I tried infestor play pre-patch. It wasn't very viable, at least at my level. But now with it's increased strength, it can help transition into say faster ultralisks, which means you can counter the deathball+sentrys push where you would normally just throw a roach/hydra/corrupter army and hope to remax and kill it. You couldn't get fast ultralisks before, because it would leave you at risk to certain timings, but now with the infestor being a much stronger and better defensive unit, it is a lot more viable.
It was dumb and arrogant of him to say, oh zerg players learned how to micro. No they didn't. They got buffed, and discovered new strats, and thats completely different then learning to micro. Zergs already knew how to micro, there just wasn't a lot of micro oppurtunities. And as far as the a-moving, it was no different then the protoss deathball being clicked across the map, so it's a stupid point.
My comment wasn't really directed at you, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I just greatly dislike players that generalize a group of people based on a small % of that group.
Then again, I am just a masters random player. I have about a 90% winrate in PvZ right now, because I've been incorporating archons, even though they apparentely suck according to some pros. The infestor buff was designed to counter the colossi/deathball, so it should be beating it, because zergs other "supposed" counter wasn't working. I don't think infestors are too good right now, colossi simply aren't the anwser to them.
Then again, maybe the zergs I am playing just aren't good enough. who knows
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On May 26 2011 05:53 On_Slaught wrote:
Who in the community, pref a terran, is like Incontrol in personality?
I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I think Incontrol is pretty unique. Even so, its not they need a Incontrol 2.0. to stay relevant, they can just get a different kind of host and it might work out even better.
One funny and charismatic terran I can think of is Demuslim, but I doubt its possible with him being European.
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Yeah please for the love of god get a Terran to replace him at least. I thought Gretorp was great on there personally.
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On May 26 2011 05:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 26 2011 02:34 1Eris1 wrote:
Anyone else find HuK's comment about zerg players learning to use infestors really stupid?
Zergs didn't figure out how to use them...they got buffed.
Really kinda sad these guys are starting to cry imba after just a couple of weeks (where zerg has won one tournament) when they have been dominating zergs for the past 2 months, and zerg players were just "bad and didn't know how to micro". Pretty hypocritical tbh. They got buffed and then zergs figured out how to use them. It's not easy to integrate new things. Infestors weren't being used in situations that they're being used in now. When a buff makes a unit good in situations that it was never used before then there's a delay between the change to the unit and players winning more because of the change. The delay is because players have to learn to use the unit in new situations. If stalker damage gets buffed, then I'm going to immediately start winning more games without having to change anything, since I've already been getting stalkers often and I don't have to do anything new to benefit from their extra damage. If carrier damage gets buffed, then I have a long grueling task ahead of me of figuring out when and how I'm going to integrate carriers into my play. For ZvP, infestor changes have been much more similar to a carrier buff than a stalker buff. No one was crying imba. One person said he thought one unit might be imbalanced. Outspoken players before us have set the stage for any discussion about the game to be viewed in the perspective you're now viewing it. It's a terrible perspective. Why aren't you interested in learning why we think the PvZ tables are turning? Or why are you more interested in seeing us proven wrong or hypocritical in some trivial respect? You are wrong if you think that any of us thinks the game is unfair or that a change is needed right now. The more accurate thing to say is that zerg is beginning to collectively outplay protoss. There's no frustration or ill feeling or whining or crying or anything from us like that about it. That you expect such feelings in this situation is indicative of how poorly so many outspoken people have handled these issues in the past. It's possible to share things with each other and learn things from each other without all that bullshit. at the same time, calling an entire race "whiners who don't know how to micro" is kind of ridiculous... it's like you said in the first part of your post, zergs got this new tool and we've been slowly figuring out how to get them safely, good unit compositions to go with them, transitions, reactions, etc... but it's pretty insulting to say that the only reason zergs were underperforming is because they weren't trying new things because they'd rather whine and didn't know how to micro. IdrA (the most outspoken zerg), for example, tried plenty of new things and eventually found a solid way to use infestors... and saying that he can't micro is just plain wrong
I'm pretty sure, even though I've yet to listen to the episode, that Huk was knowingly exaggerating. I highly doubt he thinks no zergs can micro. I do however think he might have a valid point in that the vast majority of zerg players are unfamiliar with microing caster units to the degree that terran and ,especially, protoss players are since the only spell casting zergs ever do is injecting larvae. Maybe that's a contributing factor to why including contaminate and transfusions into your play is still so rare despite both being quite powerful spells.
It reminds me a bit of terran during the 2rax bunker push scv all in era where many terrans claimed terran couldn't beat zerg in a macro game. Zerg players claimed terrans didn't know how to macro. I'd say the zerg players were at least partially right. It's not like they didn't know how to macro, they obviously had to macro in other matchups, they just didn't know what kind of mid to late game strategy they needed to use against zerg. Instead of trying to find that out they kept cheesing just like most zergs instead of trying to find ways to incorporate spell casters into their play found other ways to work around that.
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On May 26 2011 06:21 DooMDash wrote:
Yeah please for the love of god get a Terran to replace him at least. I thought Gretorp was great on there personally.
I have nothing against Gretorp but I kind of think he would not fit as a replacement of iNcontroL.
Not saying that whoever substitutes him should be exactly like iNcontroL. I just don't think Gretorp would fit at all.
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