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On August 16 2010 08:30 HyunG wrote:
i think 3 changes that could help zvt matchup.
1) nerf to hellions. instead of shooting a laser being like it does now, maybe make it like a vulture in sc2. (dont htink ti'll break tvp mech. just cant go pure tank/hellion)
2) maybe slight buff to zergling (may have some detrimental effect to pvz)
3) lower maurader damage to buildings (dont change much, allows zerg to sunken d more)
I don't know if these are enough changes but at least from my style of TvZ, helions are exceedingly annoying and seems OP with the blue beam upgrade. It is ridiculous that 4 hellions can take down an entire worker line at an expansion in 3 seconds (as well as many many zerglings).
I think these changes would help a lot.
Go ahead and evaluate
I totally agree with the helion nerf and zergling buff. If zerglings are buffed though, their speed needs to come down. This would really change the state of ZvT, and make it easier to defend a 4gate PvZ. The marauder damage to building is a bit confusing, but I like being able to put up more spine crawlers. Here are my ideas for the maruader- Separate options
1) remove stim from Marauder
2) add concussive shells cooldown (~6seconds)
3) nerf damage to units and buildings
edit: grammar
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removing stim from maurader would break tvp though. it would be near impossible to defend against aggressive protoss with multiple entries
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On August 16 2010 08:45 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 08:30 HyunG wrote:
i think 3 changes that could help zvt matchup.
1) nerf to hellions. instead of shooting a laser being like it does now, maybe make it like a vulture in sc2. (dont htink ti'll break tvp mech. just cant go pure tank/hellion)
2) maybe slight buff to zergling (may have some detrimental effect to pvz)
3) lower maurader damage to buildings (dont change much, allows zerg to sunken d more)
I don't know if these are enough changes but at least from my style of TvZ, helions are exceedingly annoying and seems OP with the blue beam upgrade. It is ridiculous that 4 hellions can take down an entire worker line at an expansion in 3 seconds (as well as many many zerglings).
I think these changes would help a lot.
Go ahead and evaluate
I totally agree with the helion nerf and zergling buff. If zerglings are buffed, there speed needs to come down some too though. This would really change the state of ZvT, and make it easier to defend a 4gate PvZ. The marauder damage to building is a bit confusing, but I like being able to put up more spine crawlers. Here are my ideas for the maruader- 1) remove stim from Marauder 2) add concussive shells cooldown (~6seconds) 3) nerf damage to units and buildings
remove stim from rauders while adding a cool down? or are these separate options?
u know, i wish tl found someway to link a member's profile to their sc2 bnet account page, so that when u click on their name, you can see what league and how many points they have, just so that we can see where these points of view are coming from.
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My ideas for the marauder were meant to be separate. I'm 66 diamond with 400 points. I don't play much ladder though, mostly just practice with clan members in customs (200 played  ).
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On August 16 2010 08:51 imyzhang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 08:45 monitor wrote:On August 16 2010 08:30 HyunG wrote:
i think 3 changes that could help zvt matchup.
1) nerf to hellions. instead of shooting a laser being like it does now, maybe make it like a vulture in sc2. (dont htink ti'll break tvp mech. just cant go pure tank/hellion)
2) maybe slight buff to zergling (may have some detrimental effect to pvz)
3) lower maurader damage to buildings (dont change much, allows zerg to sunken d more)
I don't know if these are enough changes but at least from my style of TvZ, helions are exceedingly annoying and seems OP with the blue beam upgrade. It is ridiculous that 4 hellions can take down an entire worker line at an expansion in 3 seconds (as well as many many zerglings).
I think these changes would help a lot.
Go ahead and evaluate
I totally agree with the helion nerf and zergling buff. If zerglings are buffed, there speed needs to come down some too though. This would really change the state of ZvT, and make it easier to defend a 4gate PvZ. The marauder damage to building is a bit confusing, but I like being able to put up more spine crawlers. Here are my ideas for the maruader- 1) remove stim from Marauder 2) add concussive shells cooldown (~6seconds) 3) nerf damage to units and buildings remove stim from rauders while adding a cool down? or are these separate options? u know, i wish tl found someway to link a member's profile to their sc2 bnet account page, so that when u click on their name, you can see what league and how many points they have, just so that we can see where these points of view are coming from.
I have to agree removing stim AND adding that cooldown would kind of wreck TvP.
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plantary fortress is imposible to kill if its repaired, and its cheap as crap, 1500 hp repair will cost only 150 m and 50 gas and for that time it rapeee enemy units
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oh speaking of which, i think repair rate needs to be brought down.
a thor being so strong with scvs repairing is kinda dumb as well as not being able to kill a plantary fortress.
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this thread is degenerating into really bad nerf suggestions again.
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On August 16 2010 08:55 HyunG wrote:
oh speaking of which, i think repair rate needs to be brought down.
a thor being so strong with scvs repairing is kinda dumb as well as not being able to kill a plantary fortress.
I had a game where I roach dropped his main, but he was making a push at the same time. He managed to run away his SCV's, and used them to repair his entire army. I was double his supply (roach/ling/muta) and still lost to his tank/thor push (with 25 SCV's).
It occured to me that the only way to beat that would be banelings.
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One thing that makes a big difference is just that Terran now has a 125 HP ranged tier one unit that can be made quickly and en masse. That significantly boosts the HP total of the whole Terran army, which does make a difference. Zerg has the Roach with 135 I think but it takes double damage from half the Terran army.
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"this thread is degenerating into really bad nerf suggestions again."
i dunno. my suggestions are from my point of view as terran. I dont think those nerfs will break the matchups and give zerg a bit more to stay competitive. Not sure if it'll be enough but it's better than nothing.
i'm not the best but i am decently high rated in t and p (900, 870) with 65% win ratio.
I think i played enough higher level games to have some idea but who knows lol ^_^
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On August 16 2010 07:46 iCCup.Nove wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 07:15 Qeet wrote:if you expect balance changes, it's either buffing some t units to have a chance against ultralisks or a nerf of said unit. t is still weaker then the other races, z or p are winning tourneys t gets raped by ultralisks.. just look at"Race distribution by league" http://sc2ranks.com/statsit's more likely for a z to be in diamond then anywhere else for t it's the opposite they will end up in bronze btw you shouldn't value dimaga/idra/artosis too much. dimaga cheated in tsl2 and got banned, idra and artosis are well know for imba crying since they played tvp the first time in bw(carries and dt) I can't believe someone actually thinks in this fashion… "it's more likely for a z to be in diamond then anywhere else" From the link YOU posted.. Race distribution by league: Diamond Random- 10.18% Protoss- 35.30% Terran- 30.25% Zerg- 24.27% So by more likely to be in diamond then anyone else you mean zerg has the lowest percentage outside of random correct? I think you really deserve a warning. And you don't want us to listen to top zerg players, yet do you hear of terran players who switched to zerg saying it's fine? If not then maybe there's a reason for that right? Hm...
god..
please lern to read statistics
around 21% of the players are z, in platin to bronze 20% of all the players there are z, but 24% in diamond, which means z is placed higher than they should....
the one deserving a warning are you for misinterpreting stats
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they should remove the healing ability of the dropship and add medics again. that will fix all.
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On August 16 2010 09:04 Qeet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 07:46 iCCup.Nove wrote:On August 16 2010 07:15 Qeet wrote:if you expect balance changes, it's either buffing some t units to have a chance against ultralisks or a nerf of said unit. t is still weaker then the other races, z or p are winning tourneys t gets raped by ultralisks.. just look at"Race distribution by league" http://sc2ranks.com/statsit's more likely for a z to be in diamond then anywhere else for t it's the opposite they will end up in bronze btw you shouldn't value dimaga/idra/artosis too much. dimaga cheated in tsl2 and got banned, idra and artosis are well know for imba crying since they played tvp the first time in bw(carries and dt) I can't believe someone actually thinks in this fashion… "it's more likely for a z to be in diamond then anywhere else" From the link YOU posted.. Race distribution by league: Diamond Random- 10.18% Protoss- 35.30% Terran- 30.25% Zerg- 24.27% So by more likely to be in diamond then anyone else you mean zerg has the lowest percentage outside of random correct? I think you really deserve a warning. And you don't want us to listen to top zerg players, yet do you hear of terran players who switched to zerg saying it's fine? If not then maybe there's a reason for that right? Hm... god.. please lern to read statistics around 21% of the players are z, in platin to bronze 20% of all the players there are z, but 24% in diamond, which means z is placed higher than they should.... the one deserving a warning are you for misinterpreting stats
Players in Bronze/Silver/gold have most likely just finished campaign, in which they played only Terran- lower level players are most comfortable with Terran, meaning they play terran in ladder.
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What would it fix? It would be a buff to T. Numerous early-tech healers against a Z with no Lurkers would be awful.
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Unforunately, I have not read through all of the 25 pages yet and hope that this idea has not been thrown out yet.
The only "plausible" "maybe" "possibly" fair thing to >TRY< with Zerg is maybe adding one additional larva to the hatch, and one more additional to the spawn larva ability from the queen.
In terms of the opening in the TvP matchup, Terran does truly have more viable options to open with versus a Zerg. I feel that the Z tech tree in far more rigid in sc2 than in comparison to BW. Thus, giving you a limited number of options to juggle with.
As far as the unit situation, I feel that the drastic option would be to add an additional unit, and this early in the retail release would be too harsh. I think the key holds with the roaches. I think Blizzard (or whoever convinces them) needs to find the right food combination with them. (2 food for 3 roaches was what alot of people agreed on soon after the roach supply nerf in the beta) I think 3 roaches for 3 food would allow, both, a fair way to have solution to mass tanks in mech and also does not throw off the TvP match up too much (this could be a horrifically wrong assumption).
Or maybe make the infestor more defiler like...........
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I like how so many people throw ideas while forgetting that there is also a third race...
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z players don't care about balance they just want easy wins, now it isn't that easy anymore they cry
On August 16 2010 07:54 Nooborghini wrote:
Lewl, sews pwnt. It's replies like his that doesn't help this argument thread at ALL. He just throws random facts cause PROS can do eet.
you fail too
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They should allow zerg to build thors.
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EPT
