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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:13 IdrA wrote: i dunno about now but earlier him and whitera were both making above the average salary in ukraine solely off their earnings aren't like most pros getting something like 500$/month top? is that over average in ukraine, I have no idea about these countries, I'm guessing it's obviously fine if it's the case | ||
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TheRecliner
Sweden103 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:22 IdrA wrote: i think im going to stick to zerg Don't switch. Keep making it work and your profile will gain quite abit from it. Being the only Zerg among the top 10/15 players in the world is a VERY powerful statement and obviously something unique. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:22 IdrA wrote: i still play a bit of terran on the asian ladder but i think im going to stick to zerg, i enjoy it much more and theyre definitely going to be patching it soon, would feel kind of stupid to switch to a race that doesnt suit me nearly as well just to have it nerfed. Hey Idra, you mentioned Check thinks ZvP is impossible which is fairly uncommon as far as the view goes. Any insight on this matchup that makes it particularly tough? | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:40 KissBlade wrote: Hey Idra, you mentioned Check thinks ZvP is impossible which is fairly uncommon as far as the view goes. Any insight on this matchup that makes it particularly tough? Really?? Check is one of my idols. Where does Check say that? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4462 Posts
This is temporary , proper balance changes will come soon. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:40 KissBlade wrote: Hey Idra, you mentioned Check thinks ZvP is impossible which is fairly uncommon as far as the view goes. Any insight on this matchup that makes it particularly tough? its not uncommon, the only reason it doesnt get bitched about publicly amongst foreigners is that terran is a way bigger problem. the problem with zvp is that if you play safe vs zealot pressure early you're handicapped for the mid game, and vice versa. | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On August 15 2010 11:09 IdrA wrote: korean zergs are barely any more represented in the highest ranks than foreigners, half the time the top 10 is 7 terrans 2 protosses and whichever 1 of 5 zergs happened to hit a win streak recently. By the way, this isn't actually true. Zerg is proportionally quite overrepresented in the Korean top 100 (e.g.). They are 29% of the top 100 but only 21.65% of diamond league. Now, I'm NOT saying everything is fine, because the evidence that something is very wrong is building and building. However, it's simply incorrect to say that the zergs are underrepresented at the top in the Korean ladder, even now. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:47 kajeus wrote: By the way, this isn't actually true. Zerg is proportionally quite overrepresented in the Korean top 100 (e.g.). They are 29% of the top 100 but only 21.65% of diamond league. Now, I'm NOT saying everything is fine, because the evidence that something is very wrong is building and building. However, it's simply incorrect to say that the zergs are underrepresented at the top in Korea, even now. i said top 10 and you really need to stop posting, statistics are irrelevant because when we talk about balance we mean the very best. not the top 50, top 100, top whatever. the people who are relevant in tournaments. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:46 IdrA wrote: its not uncommon, the only reason it doesnt get bitched about publicly amongst foreigners is that terran is a way bigger problem. the problem with zvp is that if you play safe vs zealot pressure early you're handicapped for the mid game, and vice versa. wow thats a relief i thought i was insane. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:22 IdrA wrote: i still play a bit of terran on the asian ladder but i think im going to stick to zerg, i enjoy it much more and theyre definitely going to be patching it soon, would feel kind of stupid to switch to a race that doesnt suit me nearly as well just to have it nerfed. Thank God. I love watching you play Zerg and it's always nice to see someone give Zerg half a chance.  | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:46 IdrA wrote: its not uncommon, the only reason it doesnt get bitched about publicly amongst foreigners is that terran is a way bigger problem. the problem with zvp is that if you play safe vs zealot pressure early you're handicapped for the mid game, and vice versa. Maybe it's because your ZvP games look very lopsided and I don't play against many good zealot pressure but can you be a little more specific? Zealot travel time and zerg larvae mechanics seem to really make that part of the matchup look decent in my limited understanding. Your KoTB games against Tester and recent match against Inca makes it look fairly effortless. (Albeit Inca seemed to have played a little subpar that day overall) | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:49 IdrA wrote: i said top 10 and you really need to stop posting, statistics are irrelevant because when we talk about balance we mean the very best. not the top 50, top 100, top whatever. the people who are relevant in tournaments. Ohh, top 100 of 68 472 players isn't the very best. I see. Ladder is what it is. Top 10 of ladder has been wildly zerg dominated for a long time in Korea. It isn't now. Maybe things have finally gone over the edge. For the record, I think zerg is underpowered. (EDIT: By the way, zerg is 30% of the top 10 and 40% of the top 20 in Korea...) | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:49 IdrA wrote: i said top 10 and you really need to stop posting, statistics are irrelevant because when we talk about balance we mean the very best. not the top 50, top 100, top whatever. the people who are relevant in tournaments. might be the best players but sample has to obviously be larger than like #1 Z, #1 P and #1 T | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:46 IdrA wrote: its not uncommon, the only reason it doesnt get bitched about publicly amongst foreigners is that terran is a way bigger problem. the problem with zvp is that if you play safe vs zealot pressure early you're handicapped for the mid game, and vice versa. Yea. I actually think 2gate openers are more of a problem than ZvT right now. There is no way a good protoss is going to let you power drones without dying. If you opt to play safe, most of the time they'll have their expansion up and running faster than you. Blizzard's fondness of making horribad maps with open expansions makes it twice as hard. I'm almost tempted to instantly gg on certain maps against protosses I know always do 2gate pressure. An analogy would be giving SC1 gateways chronoboost while you give delayed extra larva to zerg to supposedly "balance it out". It won't matter that the zerg has extra larva because his fast expansion will be dead from chrono boosted zealots by the time he'll be able to use any of the larva (no pool finished and extra larva unavailable until later). If the zerg chooses to play safe with pool first, it won't matter because chrono boosted zealots force too many zerglings too early with no real way of counter attacking against a walled in expansion. Your drone count suffers like hell, and the benefits from the zerg macro mechanics are delayed. Not like the protoss will leave you alone after the initial rush either, if that were the case it might've been okay. Too bad it'll take Blizzard another 3 months after dealing with TvZ to realise this though. All the hate focused on terran is diverting attention from other problems. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:55 kajeus wrote: Ohh, top 100 of 68 472 players isn't the very best. I see. Ladder is what it is. Top 10 of ladder has been wildly zerg dominated for a long time in Korea. It isn't now. Maybe things have finally gone over the edge. For the record, I think zerg is underpowered. (EDIT: By the way, zerg is 30% of the top 10 and 40% of the top 20 in Korea...) every single post you make is about statistics, and ladder stats dont mean jack shit when we're talking about balance. lots of good players offrace or experiment or just dont play much on ladder. tournament results and gameplay are what matters. all but like 3 tournaments have been won by terran since the start of phase 2. every single top zerg and a good number of terrans will tell you the matchup is fundamentally terran favored. not because terran wins 76.2% of the time, but because terran has distinct advantages in a lot of important areas and zerg has no real answer to them. if statistics get you hard make one of those ladder analysis pages or something, but stop interfering with balance discussions. | ||
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Macavity
United States83 Posts
The issue isn't that Terran is overpowered. The issue is that Zerg is a poorly designed race. What forced me to switch was when I realized that all my wins with Zerg ended up being long games like 30 min. But ALL my losses with Zerg would be like 10 min or so. Playing Zerg became so frustrating since Zerg is not in any position to be too aggressive at the beginning. People say, "You must macro!" OK, I have five bases with 100 drones. Because Zerg needs more bases, he needs more drones, which means he has less of a food count to make fun usual units. And this is just 'one' of the frustrations of playing Zerg. I find Terran to be the most 'complete' of the races. I have many options and playstyles available. Protoss I find to be less developed than Terran, but still OK. Zerg is just a complete mess. Zerg has some good core units like zerglings, mutalisks, hydralisks, but that is all. These units are also very two dimensional. All the Zerg can do is just make a ton of those two dimensional units. On August 15 2010 04:16 Puosu wrote: Blizzard is taking their time for a reason, they're looking for the best possible changes they can make and not hasty ones like they had in the beta where they could afford to make mistakes. No, the problem with the Zerg race cannot be fixed with a simple 'balance' patch. The problem of the Zerg stems from Blizzard pinning the design philosophy on an incorrect definition, i.e. "swarmy". The "swarmy" definition is the cause of why Zerg units are all two dimensional. The 'swarmy' definition is why Zerg is meant to just make tons of the same units and 'attack move' somewhere. 'Swarmy' is why Zerg has problems with Terran mech because Zerg units are so weak in comparison because they were designed to be made in mass numbers. The biggest issue is that Blizzard's "Zerg swarmy" philosophy is not fun to play. I do not enjoy making tons of drones, defending against constant harassment, so I can make fifty hydralisks/roaches/mutalisks and attack move to victory. Of course, I am simplifying the matter, but not really. Blizzard was so relentless in their 'differentiation of races' that they made the Zerg into something they were not. In Brood War, Zerg were aggressive and to be feared. In Starcraft 2, Zerg are docile and considered weak. To "Zerg" became a definition in itself. Today, to "Zerg" will alter the definition into an opposite way (in the future, RTS gamers will talk about 'zerging' a race as to mean they neutered it). There is enough of an essential skeleton of the Zerg so they can win games. But it is the player who wins games, not the race. Zerg players tend to be cranky in general because the race is not fun to play (despite the cool biological aesthetic). My suggestion to Blizzard is to scale back the 'philosophy' of 'swarmy' and make Zerg more like Brood War Zerg. This will require some major changes however than a simple 'balance' tweak. | ||
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SOB_Maj_Brian
United States522 Posts
Like T had vulture runbys, vulture/tank drop. P could storm drop, raver drop, dt drop, etc., and Z could lurker drop, ling runby, and muta harass. In SC2, zerg is forced to play reactively and defensively and cannot harass. I personally enjoy being able to harass the economy of my opponent, because you are the one dictating the action. T has a plethora of options at early and late game harass (hellion, reaper, even banshee etc.). P has some nice options, void ray, warp prism etc. But Z has very little harass capability. Basically harassment can dictate the pace and outcome game. Of course good defense to harass can win games (your opponent wasted money trying to harass and you now you will have more money for a bigger army), just as good harassment an economic damage can win it. The whole problem to me seems that Z is forced to play defensive and does not have a viable option to be the harasser. While this may be an oversimplification, but it seems that Z's whole game plan is get big and survive. | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On August 15 2010 13:10 IdrA wrote: every single post you make is about statistics, and ladder stats dont mean jack shit when we're talking about balance. lots of good players offrace or experiment or just dont play much on ladder. tournament results and gameplay are what matters. all but like 3 tournaments have been won by terran since the start of phase 2. every single top zerg and a good number of terrans will tell you the matchup is fundamentally terran favored. not because terran wins 76.2% of the time, but because terran has distinct advantages in a lot of important areas and zerg has no real answer to them. if statistics get you hard make one of those ladder analysis pages or something, but stop interfering with balance discussions. Nice reply? I'm not interfering with your crusade, dumbass. I'm keeping you honest. Don't lie and you're set. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
other then that i fully agree what TLO keeps sayin, that most zergs still just dont play smart. evrytime i see a zerg just go mass roach/hydra and 1a (those 4 corrupters or few lings they might have dont change the basic idea) i realize how stupid that is . not that i play much different... Z needs good innovators evryone can copy(and sorry but idra is the last one who can fullfill that role) and a huge change in maps . i really think that this could solve the vast majority of issues people have. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
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