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gotta do what ya gotta do gl with Terran hope ya get better results
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On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/17173_Starcraft_2_World_Cup
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GL Dimaga, there is a beauty in zerg that you will not forget. Playing Terran will be a like a 9-5 job.
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On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ.
17173.com 2nd place losing 3-4 (forgot was bo7) to cool the best zerg in the world at the time. It featured the biggest names in the scene (tester dropped out in group stages)
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On August 15 2010 06:16 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:03 Backpack wrote:On August 15 2010 06:02 Azarkon wrote:On August 15 2010 05:58 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Top 10 Korean Players: 1 Random, 1 Protoss, 4 Zerg, 5 Terrans Protoss needs buff?  People need to calm down about balance. In every Blizzard RTS, there's been periods when one race was considered underpowered - only to become anything but with the next change in the meta-game. One or two small tweaks to Zerg maybe necessary, but if so Blizzard is going to take it slow - as they always do. I think the real problem here is Dimaga's relationship with his sponsor. Being the #1 Zerg should be enough, fame-wise, for his employer. But if that's not the case then perhaps Dimaga should seek other avenues for sponsorship since the current one seems to expect too much. Agreed. This is all just a big social problem, not a balance problem Except that Undead still suck in WC3 (8 years already). Many pro-undeads retired because of the weakness of their race. Grubby Sky Moon are still in the game. Blizzard promised a good balance patch for wc3, I wish they change something about undeads.
Well, Happy (UD) just beat Sky (HUM) 3-1 so...
Yeah, even eight years later, you still can't be too sure about balance.
And we're not even close to hitting the eight years mark with SC 2.
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On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ.
King of the Beta tournament was an invite only tournament with 8 players.
Dimaga was 2nd place in the SC2 World Cup which included most of the top Koreans and all the top Euro and U.S. players. I think Dimaga won about $2000 for coming second which is the same as coming 1st in the King of the Beta.
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On August 15 2010 06:21 teekesselchen wrote:
This discussion always makes me checking two things:
1) How does it look in other areas of the world?
2) How many tactics do I see of players of the respective race, how much do they actually try?
Checking 1) revealed to me that Korea, once again, has a nice balance in races. As they already were "faster" than europe in balance changes last time (when EU terrans were desperate while Koreans said Terran was a strong race and soon after that, Terran became strong in EU as well), I consider that information valuable.
Looking at 2) of course depends on my experience, but I see Zerg not varying alot. For example they easily give up on things like mutalisk harass, only very very very rarely spend ressources on overlord drop upgrade and, in general, have given up alot on pressuring their opponents. They play a certain standard which they think was stable but don't experiment alot, especially not with pressure play.
I think it's the same as with Terran back then for Zerg. It requires a mix of opening their minds to new tactics and gaining more experience on how to counter enemy tactics or force them to react instead of letting the opponent set the pace.
EU terrans became strong when T was buffed and other races nerfed.
And why people keep on saying that in Korea the game is balanced? Could you provide any evidence?
You are just biased and see what you want to see.
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On August 15 2010 06:25 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ. 17173.com 2nd place losing 2-3 to cool the best zerg in the world at the time. It featured the biggest names in the scene (tester dropped out in group stages)
Yeah I see that. Amazing feat, unquestionably. However, that took place almost a month pre-release, and like another person commented, even Idra mentioned that Dimaga had started to become say...(can't find word =D) and the "Terran is OP, Zerg can't win" mindset just forced him into the all in Dimaga we saw during KOTB.
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On August 15 2010 06:12 KillerPlague wrote:
isn't zerg dominating asia?
NOOOOOO
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On August 15 2010 06:25 Necrosjef wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ. King of the Beta tournament was an invite only tournament with 8 players. Dimaga was 2nd place in the SC2 World Cup which included most of the top Koreans and all the top Euro and U.S. players. I think Dimaga won about $2000 for coming second which is the same as coming 1st in the King of the Beta.
Please stop bringing back SC2 world cup which was way before most of balance changes.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
a bit of an overreaction from dimaga. i think he's letting the outcries of imba get to his head instead of getting his head down, refining builds and testing new strategies. oh well whatever you decide to do, i'll still be your fan!
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That's sad, he is my favourite Zerg player.
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I really wish people would stop pointing to Idra's success with zerg as justification that zvt is fine. The fact is to be successful you have to work really hard against some builds. I think Idra's success is more a sign of his solid mechanics than zerg being fine, as a lot are struggling with the race. During beta they didn't want zerg to have "gimme upgrades" (overlord speed) then they reduce the cost of the barracks tech lab upgrades. 50/50 conc shell, sigh. Even if you make 1 marauder, that seems like a "gimme upgrade".
They pushed terran a little too much.
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On August 15 2010 06:12 KillerPlague wrote:
isn't zerg dominating asia? No. But they're considered a "strong" race in Asia, with Protoss really being considered the weakest overall, or at least that's apparently sc2.178.com's opinion.
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On August 15 2010 06:27 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:25 kNyTTyM wrote:On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ. 17173.com 2nd place losing 2-3 to cool the best zerg in the world at the time. It featured the biggest names in the scene (tester dropped out in group stages) Yeah I see that. Amazing feat, unquestionably. However, that took place almost a month pre-release, and like another person commented, even Idra mentioned that Dimaga had started to become say...(can't find word =D) and the "Terran is OP, Zerg can't win" mindset just forced him into the all in Dimaga we saw during KOTB.
If we're going by what Idra mentions, he also agree'd that Zerg is "awful" =)
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Atleast if everyone switches to terran there will be perfect balance in TvT.
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As a zerg, I can't say I'm surprised. I really hope dimaga joins back zerg regardless of his success as terran though if blizz realizes to do some changes. It'd totally biased to claim terran doesn't need ANY nerfs (or other races need clear buffs). It's indeed unfortunate how terran has been made very well, and wouldn't necessarily need nerfs if other races were designed to match terran's capabilities.
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On August 15 2010 06:25 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:16 bokeevboke wrote:On August 15 2010 06:03 Backpack wrote:On August 15 2010 06:02 Azarkon wrote:On August 15 2010 05:58 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Top 10 Korean Players: 1 Random, 1 Protoss, 4 Zerg, 5 Terrans Protoss needs buff? People need to calm down about balance. In every Blizzard RTS, there's been periods when one race was considered underpowered - only to become anything but with the next change in the meta-game. One or two small tweaks to Zerg maybe necessary, but if so Blizzard is going to take it slow - as they always do. I think the real problem here is Dimaga's relationship with his sponsor. Being the #1 Zerg should be enough, fame-wise, for his employer. But if that's not the case then perhaps Dimaga should seek other avenues for sponsorship since the current one seems to expect too much. Agreed. This is all just a big social problem, not a balance problem Except that Undead still suck in WC3 (8 years already). Many pro-undeads retired because of the weakness of their race. Grubby Sky Moon are still in the game. Blizzard promised a good balance patch for wc3, I wish they change something about undeads. Well, Happy (UD) just beat Sky (HUM) 3-1 so... Yeah, even eight years later, you still can't be too sure about balance. And we're not even close to hitting the eight years mark with SC 2.
You might need to check recent Chinese Wc3 tournaments and take top4. I highly doubt you will find any undead. And also TeD who is top2 undead of the world was excluded from WE.Pepsi which implies that he was doing bad. Same could happen to Dimaga.
My post meant that blizzard hasn't done any considerable balance changes in recent 4 years but undead didn't come up with some new tactics and continued at failing. So I think it is better to act now than waiting until all zergs will vanish.
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On August 15 2010 06:33 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 06:27 Pandain wrote:On August 15 2010 06:25 kNyTTyM wrote:On August 15 2010 06:23 Pandain wrote:On August 15 2010 06:12 decemvrie wrote:
So i've been reading the thread.
One guy says that Dimaga should look at the korean scene because he is D- compared to them and i would punch that guy in the face should i ever meet him. Dimaga got 2nd place in the world in the beta and he is still better than all the koreans currently playing SC2.
Another noob said that the zerg versus terran win ratio is balanced. NOT once you get really high on the ladder and/or get to play extremely good terran players in tournaments. The reason the win ratio is as it is because noobs make collosal mistakes all the time so race balance is less important. Once both players play as close the their race's full potential you can see the gap in ZvT.
But don't think this will happen in SC2 with Zerg, because Dimaga / Idra is really AS GOOD AS IT GETS. The koreans ARE NOT better than these 2 players. This means that as the game progresses and both zergs and terrans learn more about the game, the imbalance will stay the same.
! Quoted parts I would doubt. First off, Dimaga is good. Really good. Better than you, me, and every single person in this site save a few. But I would highly doubt Dimaga is the best foreigner, or zerg, and definitely not better than top Korean pros. Tester would 5-0 him in a Bo11(Dimaga would quit because Tester just slaughtered him.) Exaggerating of course, Dimaga is amazing and I love his style. But 1.which tournament did he get "2nd place in the world." Cause I would say the KOTB tournament would beg to differ. 17173.com 2nd place losing 2-3 to cool the best zerg in the world at the time. It featured the biggest names in the scene (tester dropped out in group stages) Yeah I see that. Amazing feat, unquestionably. However, that took place almost a month pre-release, and like another person commented, even Idra mentioned that Dimaga had started to become say...(can't find word =D) and the "Terran is OP, Zerg can't win" mindset just forced him into the all in Dimaga we saw during KOTB. If we're going by what Idra mentions, he also agree'd that Zerg is "awful" =)
To be more accurate, IdrA's particular beef with the ZvT match-up is one-base Terran, aka all-ins and timing attacks that you can't easily scout but must prepare very different strategies for as Zerg.
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EPT
