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On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed.
its like a really good player changes teams because he cant win with his team, i mean that would never happen in the NBA.
Oh wait.....
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On August 15 2010 05:42 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:40 Ruthless wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:18 avilo wrote:and i thought cnc players were the most massive rts whining community out there, in sc people have to publicly announce they're whining on a sponsored team? Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. Aoe players all pick the best civ for the patch. Wcg was all japan or all dutch both times it was featured for wcg. People didnt whine they lamed. The only good players lamed or sat on points that just didnt matter. Of course the best races are going to move on. But the Portugal players didn't wallow in pools of tears 24/7. They practiced and worked together and saw it as a challenge, as did I.
Ok lets take this a step further every countries wcg qualifiers had all japan players. Usa had one relevant non japan player brazil had all japan germany had all japan.
If you personally took it as a challenge i commend you because i was very involved in aoe and i assure you balance was a no contest thing if you wanted to win.
It was less whining perhape because the community was smaller and there was literally no debate.
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It's Dimaga choice, nobody here has right to tell him otherwise.
I personaly hope he will switch, there are only two possible outcomes:
1) he starts rolling (almost) everyone -> strong implication terran may be really imbalanced
2) he fails -> strong implication the terran op talk may be in fact bullshit
Either way, it will shed some light on the balance in game.
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On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed.
So it is good to make it more difficult for yourself than is needed? No, that is retarded. Call it what you will but Dimaga is making a smart move. If you could cut the difficulty of your job by half, would you?
Dimaga is a solid player, and if he feels T is the way to go, I will be sad to lose a zedrg brother, but he is doing the right thing. In football (american mind you) if you were the coach of a team, and whatever play you were fond of running, the other team had a good handle on stopping it, would you continue the play or use a different, more effective one?
I do not like terran, but if my livlihood was threatened, I would switch in a heartbeat.
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On August 15 2010 05:47 Nik0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed. its like a really good player changes teams because he cant win with his team, i mean that would never happen in the NBA. Oh wait.....
Everyone absolutely crucified LeBron for doing what he did.
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On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed.
The thing is, Dimaga has to pay back to his sponsors. And he is not capable of doing that when he plays zerg. Why is that pathetic? Was TLO pathetic when he gave up random? It was a wise decision. Pros need to win.
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On August 15 2010 05:46 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:43 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Sure it may fuel the fire, but at the end of the day, the results speak for themselves when comparting T and Z. What results? The data from sc2ranks that says that Zerg has about the same win% as well as the same demographics in diamond leagues with respect to race popularity? Or have you compiled data from tournaments? I'd like to see it. Keep in mind that through the beta, T players never won tournaments. Z and P players dominated every single tournament minus a couple. Things changed, not because of balance changes, but because of the natural ebb and flow of strategy in an RTS game.
On August 15 2010 05:16 kNyTTyM wrote:WTA Takedown+ Show Spoiler +Finals thestc (t) vs. ensnare (t) Score: oGs (5) - (0) Prime
Game 1 - oGsEnsnare (T) > GerrardPrime (Z)
Game 2 - oGsEnsnare (T) > CheckPrime (Z)
Game 3 - oGsEnsnare (T) > MaKaPrime (T)
Game 4 - oGsEnsnare (T) > hanniblePrime (T)
Game 5 - oGsEnsnare (T) > DayFlyPrime (T)
Notice prime doesn't even try to send out protoss or another zerg. They had junwi who nears the top of the KR ladder and is a former bw progamer
beta =/= release. There is a reason why it is called beta. enjoy.
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I'm not surprised he's considering it. Nobody should in their right mind play zerg right now. Honestly I think switching to protoss would be better if it wasn't for the stupidity of PvP. I think P actually is more than capable of dealing with terran standard play now. There are some strong T allins but P I feel is at an advantage. ZvP is pretty balanced.
Honestly, I play games as zerg sometimes for fun, but I have issues dealing with the most AWFUL terrans, simply because they make the right units and amove at the right time. It's 30 apm play, but it's impossible to deal with.
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On August 15 2010 05:46 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:43 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Sure it may fuel the fire, but at the end of the day, the results speak for themselves when comparting T and Z. What results? The data from sc2ranks that says that Zerg has about the same win% as well as the same demographics in diamond leagues with respect to race popularity? Or have you compiled data from tournaments? I'd like to see it. Keep in mind that through the beta, T players never won tournaments. Z and P players dominated every single tournament minus a couple. Things changed, not because of balance changes, but because of the natural ebb and flow of strategy in an RTS game.
I agree with you mostly, but let's not act like Terran wasn't over-buffed in some areas, and Zerg and Protoss were knocked back quite a bit. The Roach/Tank changes to highlight some.
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On August 15 2010 05:47 Nik0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed. its like a really good player changes teams because he cant win with his team, i mean that would never happen in the NBA. Oh wait.....
Exactly, fantastic example, because now everyone hates LeBron because the NBA fosters a competitive atmosphere and this community doesn't. Now all zerg players love Dimaga and are going to invite him to their wrist-cutting parties.
On August 15 2010 05:49 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed. Was TLO pathetic when he gave up random? It was a wise decision. Pros need to win.
TLO still plays Zerg along with Terran and kicks ass with both. TLO didn't give up random because he thought the game was broken, he just said he wasn't comfortable with protoss. Apples, oranges.
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Dimaga is in no position to judge anyway. We should look at the higher level scene such as the Korean one. It's like seeing a D- Zerg / Terran ICCUp player crying about Protoss when Protoss completely sucked in the progamer scene
This is from a guy who didn't make it out of his group stages in 2 WCG's, not going to take his crying seriously.
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I really hope Blizzard starts to change zerg when they see that even pro players change.
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On August 15 2010 05:49 purerythem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:46 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:43 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Sure it may fuel the fire, but at the end of the day, the results speak for themselves when comparting T and Z. What results? The data from sc2ranks that says that Zerg has about the same win% as well as the same demographics in diamond leagues with respect to race popularity? Or have you compiled data from tournaments? I'd like to see it. Keep in mind that through the beta, T players never won tournaments. Z and P players dominated every single tournament minus a couple. Things changed, not because of balance changes, but because of the natural ebb and flow of strategy in an RTS game. beta =/= release. There is a reason why it is called beta. enjoy.
The game right now is identical to the game in phase 2 beta?
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On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. Switching races because you think things are difficult isn't good sportsmanship. It's pathetic, uncompetitive, and weak-willed.
Thats a hilariously bad comparison. Here, ill help you. If there were certain rules against them that didnt apply to the other team, i bet yes they would complain and would want to switch teams.
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On August 15 2010 05:43 purerythem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 05:38 iEchoic wrote:On August 15 2010 05:34 purerythem wrote:On August 15 2010 05:24 iEchoic wrote:
Agreed, I come from AoE and the community is so much more mature than this one. The balance problems were far worse in AoE but the good players who played the weaker races took it as a creative challenge. On SC2 the good players take it as an opportunity to find excuses for themselves. It really is disappointing and a huge turn off from this game. I think the people who say SC has the greatest community are either wrong or I just am not seeing it. except this isn't AoE, it's sc2, the follow up to the worlds most popular, successful, and hardcore rts game in history. I don't see how that excuses the poor sportsmanship and lack of competitive spirit from the community. The NBA is far more popular and successful but the athletes don't make excuses for themselves. Kobe Bryant didn't blame his finger injury for losing a single time throughout the season or the postseason. If our SC2 players were NBA stars they'd be blaming the refs or injuries after every single game. you're missing the point. The vast majority of this community played the lights out of sc1. Sc1 was a game of near perfect harmony in every aspect, which is why it was so popular. You don't find it a bit out of the ordinary that such a large % of players, including top professional, are complaining about the blatent imba? It's not like they lose a few games and come to TL and scream IMBA!! Your comparison to the nba would be that if kobe misses a shot, he would report a malfunction of the rim to the head of the NBA saying its not perfectly round, its off axis, ect... Poor sportsman ship has nothing to do with game balance. Sure it may fuel the fire, but at the end of the day, the results speak for themselves when comparting T and Z.
Which sc1 did you play? Because you can't possibly have played the one I did, where terran was widely considered the weakest race. Before boxer it was even considered so bad that it wasn't even competitively VIABLE. Yet top players have found ways to make it successful. Same thing will happen with sc2. Maybe zerg is doomed to be the race for sc2, the race that not everyone can play successfully at a high level because it takes a bit more.
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people underestimate the role maps play in balance.
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On August 15 2010 05:51 biarecare wrote:
Dimaga is in no position to judge anyway. We should look at the higher level scene such as the Korean one. It's like seeing a D- Zerg / Terran ICCUp player crying about Protoss when Protoss completely sucked in the progamer scene
This is from a guy who didn't make it out of his group stages in 2 WCG's, not going to take his crying seriously.
The Korean scene is exactly the same, we just spent 3 pages discussing this. (Plus IdrA sees this first hand.)
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Did he finally realize that banelings every single game every matchup wont work?
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EPT
